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Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)


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Forgive the slightly odd question but is there a dedicated thread for discussing non-JW Star Wars music? 

 

I know many individual projects have their own thread, but is there one for all of it in one place?

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5 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Forgive the slightly odd question but is there a dedicated thread for discussing non-JW Star Wars music? 

 

I know many individual projects have their own thread, but is there one for all of it in one place?


Funnily enough I was actually thinking of creating something similar for non-JW uses of JW themes, so I would definitely be interested in a thread like this

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7 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

I haven't finished the interview yet but damn I would've liked to have heard some of her earlier theme ideas. She says that she wrote a lot of Williams-esque themes and Deborah Chow didn't like any of them, the only early theme she approved was the RCP-like inquisitor theme

And she said she did 17 versions of the young Leia theme! Sounds like the whole process was not great for Holt. Even after Chow approved a major theme, it had to go to Kennedy for her feedback and approval. That process sounds awful.

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I never blame the composer (except for Hans of course! :lol:)

 

The film music industry can be a pretty dark and unforgiving place from the many stories I've heard from those on the inside. I love writing music, and that is exactly why I don't think I'd ever want to become a professional film composer.

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That latest interview is a bit strange, but I get more of a vibe that she's not used to being asked about these things in detail, nor the attention her score is getting, and stumbles a bit.

 

15 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

one would think that shewould like to play a low profile…

 

Why would she want to do that?

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9 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Although KK and the executives had to give their OK, it definitely sounds like Deborah Chow was the driving force for why the music wasn't all that great. If anything I'd be willing to bet KK was the one who wanted John to come in and "fix" the score, so to speak.

Yeah I think that's what likely happened given KK and JW's working relationship.  

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3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Why would she want to do that?

Because she has been half rejected and most people are praising unknowingly the parts she didnt score….

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20 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

anyway if chow prevented her from doing a williamesque soundtrack, thats very sad because she might have provided a decent score

 

It got a decent score. Not everyone has to sound like John Williams. You've got 9 other scores to listen to if you want his SW sound - can't you let a few other composers have their moment?

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5 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I personally do not believe the "JW called up Kathleen Kennedy one day and said I'd really like to write a theme for Ben" story.

 

Absolutely. I can't imagine John logging onto Twitter (or using an electronic device in general :lol:) and being like "hey, they're doing an Obi-Wan television show? I gotta get in on that!"

 

He was clearly asked to be involved. And whether or not he even wanted to do it at first, who knows?

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2 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Absolutely. I can't imagine John logging onto Twitter (or using an electronic device in general :lol:) and being like "hey, they're doing an Obi-Wan television show? I gotta get in on that!"

 

He was clearly asked to be involved. And whether or not he even wanted to do it at first, who knows?

"Joseph, have you seen the news?! Nevermind now, I'll call you later, I need to speak with Kathy real quick."

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7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Then just ignore it? I just don't listen to scores I don't like.

 

Well personally, I have been ignoring the score, although I am very fascinated by the whole behind-the-scenes situation :P

 

But then again; who's to say this isn't going to happen again? Or become the new norm for Star Wars productions going forward? So it is fascinating, but also potentially worrisome at the same time.

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I wonder Holt is hurting her relationship with Lucasfilm/Disney with what she is saying I’m interviews. She’s may be speaking the truth but it definitely makes lucasfilm look bad with their decisions and micromanaging. 

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2 hours ago, Toillion said:

I wonder Holt is hurting her relationship with Lucasfilm/Disney with what she is saying I’m interviews. She’s may be speaking the truth but it definitely makes lucasfilm look bad with their decisions and micromanaging. 


I had the same suspicions but it looks like she just locked down S2 of Loki amid all of this, so I guess she’s doing all right! 

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On 5/7/2022 at 12:56 AM, greenturnedblue said:

Anyone else think the Mando main theme might be the most iconic TV theme of the decade? I think it is definitely instantly recognisable and memorable and therefore 'timeless'. A perfect example star wars music does not need to fit within the the John Williams mould to be successful

 

My main gripe with the Holt material is just that it isn't very good, in general, not that it isn't good star wars music 

 

Also I don't really see a problem with today's new composers trying to be inventive and unique (see success of Mando theme). Imagine if film music never evolved past its humble beginnings. We would be listening to the same kind of scores as people did 100 years ago! Composers like Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, Gorranson, Clint Mansell, Vangelis even Zimmer and artists like Daft Punk have been pushing the envelope, successfully. If they are not successful I don't know what is

 

But with anything, there is a time and a place for new things, and the Kenobi show was not one of them


Game of Thrones might have a thing or two to say about that “most memorable TV theme of the decade” claim. 

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5 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

 

 

I appreciate your detailed response, and you make some good points.

 

My primary concern when reading the discussion here lately has been that we seem a bit of a 'glass half empty' bunch. Give us a release, a new score, or something else, and we (royal 'we') look for flaws, problems, or missed opportunities before celebrating what we did get.

 

Hence in the case of this show, we got a glimpse of what it might've been had JW/Ross scored the whole thing, and it just seems to me that it's put the forum on a bit of a more severe case of 'what could have been'.

 

And the various suggestions that Holt has been inconsistent about when JW came on, whether it was a thematic rescore or more of an emergency partial rescore. All these discussions feel to me an attempt to 'paint' the situation as JW/Ross having saved the show from Holt's modern sound, and that LFL/KK finally 'saw the light'. As someone who these days prefers a lot of more modern, alternative scoring, I tend to find lamenting over the loss of JW's sound a bit old-fashioned.

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On 05/07/2022 at 6:56 AM, greenturnedblue said:

Anyone else think the Mando main theme might be the most iconic TV theme of the decade? I think it is definitely instantly recognisable and memorable and therefore 'timeless'. A perfect example star wars music does not need to fit within the the John Williams mould to be successful

I agree, that it is reconizable. But I always found it too simple rhythmically and melodically. It is for me what I call LEGO brick music.

But I understand why others like it.

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On 12/07/2022 at 3:48 PM, Richard Penna said:

Then just ignore it? I just don't listen to scores I don't like.

 

It's hard to ignore it when watching the show. I can't just watch it muted because then I don't hear the dialogues and sound effects.

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47 minutes ago, Oswin Pond said:

It's hard to ignore it when watching the show. I can't just watch it muted because then I don't hear the dialogues and sound effects.

Just turn the subtitles on ;)

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23 hours ago, Toillion said:

I wonder Holt is hurting her relationship with Lucasfilm/Disney with what she is saying I’m interviews. She’s may be speaking the truth but it definitely makes lucasfilm look bad with their decisions and micromanaging. 

 

Is it even a secret at this point? Lucasfilm let the cat out of the bag the moment they fired Lord and Miller.

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22 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

Is it even a secret at this point? Lucasfilm let the cat out of the bag the moment they fired Lord and Miller.

every production besides Ep8 and the Mandoverse stuff has been production nightmares

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7 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

This is why this board loses me from time to time:

 

What you say is accurate, but the problem is that this could (and quite frankly, given the budget, actors, and easy potential invovled, this should) have been something much more.  But alas, it is closer to what your analysis suggests.   Plus, given the factors, JW's legacy is (albeit in a small way) on the line, which makes us all understandably and justifiably defensive and protective. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I wonder which show will be the straw that breaks the camels back. This one seems to have gotten a lot of criticism from people on the Internet (many comments on the music and shaky cam work that is reflective of the worst productions in audio-visual media today). I am curious what direction things will go in the next few years.

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On 05/07/2022 at 5:03 PM, Michael G. said:

I've done an overview of the themes of the Obi-Wan Kenobi series (more than you might think!) and identified how the album tracks are used in the episodes. In case of errors please report!

Added one Dies Irae-Statement in "I Will Do What I Must"

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi Themes.pdf

 

Thanks to Alex Ludwig aka Film Music Tropes for pointing this out in his new video:

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Some cue information! (courtesy of Songview):

Spoiler

Lucas Star Wars Title - William Ross

Battle Part 1 - William Ross

Battle Part 2 - William Ross

Blackbear Stops Ship Overlay - Andreas Gutuen Aaser

 

There's more but they're just OST titles and with only entries for William Ross it's unsure whether those are actual cues or simply the OST. Also, Andreas Gutuen Aaser has Mapuzo on his website and has a video on his Intragram performing nose flute for the cue.

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