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Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)


Jay
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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I guess out of all the Star Wars shows Disney is cooking up, this is literally the one that probably MOST deserves to have a score closest to Williams' OT and PT sound, since it's about a main character from those 6 films, taking place in between 2 of them

100%. I don't think there has ever been a composer set up to succeed with prior source material as much as now. There better be Duel Of The Fates in this.

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On 24/04/2022 at 12:00 PM, crocodile said:

 

Not sure I understand. Of course, you could make it easier for yourself but that would be lowering the standards, wouldn't it? I don't necessarily want people to emulate John Williams verbatim. That isn't interesting either. But it would be nice to have someone who can at least understand the DNA of his work and can move within that world. Especially if JW is directly involved in the project.

 

Karol

 

Not sure I understand this "lowering the standard." There are multiple styles that can work for Star Wars or any other films. If you are talking about composition and technicality, nobody is going to beat Williams. That is not lowering the standard, that just that he is on another level. That is why you score your own style and you will be fine. Powell, Haab, and Göransson already did SW in several different styles. 

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14 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Her themes are ok. What I meant is, I heard in her scores basically three types of music:

  • Some elegic chamber music style with mainly strings piano and few other solo instruments
  • Some quite authentic instrumental pop/rock music styled pieces or
  • Electronics Interwoven with orchestral elements, which is pretty much the Loki score.

None of that is classical Star Wars.

But let's see.

 

I listened to a few clips of her TV work on Spotify and the chamber-style work immediately leapt out at me. Very different from the sampling of Loki I heard.

 

And no, it's not classical SW, but why does it need to be? Almost feels like a new composer taking in a universe started by JW is going through an interview process to be qualified to work on it :P 

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7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

And no, it's not classical SW, but why does it need to be? Almost feels like a new composer taking in a universe started by JW is going through an interview process to be qualified to work on it :P 

Every try to breath life into Star Wars pictures or series by not big symphonic music à la John Williams has proven to fail dramatically. The atmosphere goes down the drain.

But luckily most people don't care, so it is not really an issue.

 

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18 hours ago, Jay said:

You think of film composers in terms of them each only working in one genre?

 

4 minutes ago, StrWrsNrd said:

 

No, I just meant what style? Or does she have a style? On another note, what did you guys think about Ludwig gorransson for the mandalorian?

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7 minutes ago, StrWrsNrd said:

 

No, I just meant what style? Or does she have a style? On another note, what did you guys think about Ludwig gorransson for the mandalorian?

To me Görransson's score was the prove, that Star Wars really requires that musical fairy dust that his music is missing. This is not Marvel, like do whatever you want and let the visual effects and sound effects do the magic. That doesn't work, for me at least.

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18 minutes ago, StrWrsNrd said:

On another note, what did you guys think about Ludwig gorransson for the mandalorian?

Many of us liked it a lot. Some didn't, and some just automatically wrote it off as trash.

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59 minutes ago, publicist said:

Wasn't the show and the score a resounding success? It's a validation that eclectic modern stuff works just fine.

Not really.

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56 minutes ago, StrWrsNrd said:

 

No, I just meant what style? Or does she have a style? 

 

You think of film composers in terms of them each only having one style? 

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I’m sure we are guaranteed to hear DOTF and BOTH, even though I wish we wouldn’t.  For me, those scores succeed largely in spite of those themes (especially BOTH, woooooof).  I’m more interested in hearing Williams’ new theme and how it’s used and developed than any recurring film themes.  I’m also hoping Holt largely does her own thing and doesn’t feel beholden to the film scores, because trying to ape Williams is a recipe for failure.

 

I don’t think we’ve heard bad Star Wars live action TV scoring and I wouldn’t mind if Holt does something in that vein, in a more classical vein, or something completely different. 

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Wait wait wait. Having a style and being capable of working in many different musical genres are two different questions and not contradicting. Having a unique musical style doesn't mean, that you always do the same. Good example is this old composer, you might know him, John Williams.

And I personally might not like Hans Zimmers music. But I have to admit, he has a musical style, a musical signature that you can recognize in all his scores. That is a value.

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33 minutes ago, publicist said:

So it wasn't a success?

Let me put it this way. For the Star Wars movies it is commen sense that the score had a significant influence on the success of the movies.

For the Mandalorian the right question is rather "Did the eclectic modern stuff prevent the success of the show?" I would answer: No.

But is that a success for a Star Wars score?

 

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44 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Let me put it this way. For the Star Wars movies it is commen sense that the score had a significant influence on the success of the movies.

For the Mandalorian the right question is rather "Did the eclectic modern stuff prevent the success of the show?" I would answer: No.

But is that a success for a Star Wars score?

 

My chip is on neither shoulder in this case - heard the scores, never saw the series - but i distinctly remember that LG had much positive buzz beyond fan circles, i. e. on FB and so on. Even people i know dug it, certainly weren't put off by it. 

 

And it was a corporate decision to go into that direction, certainly not a lonesome decision by the guy who did the music. Taking all this into account, i think that they will build on this template and certainly not request a neo-romantic makeover.

 

But let's wait and see...if this were a bet, though...;)

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15 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

My chip is on neither shoulder in this case - heard the scores, never saw the series - but i distinctly remember that LG had much positive buzz beyond fan circles, i. e. on FB and so on. Even people i know dug it, certainly weren't put off by it. 

 

And it was a corporate decision to go into that direction, certainly not a lonesome decision by the guy who did the music. Taking all this into account, i think that they will build on this template and certainly not request a neo-romantic makeover.

 

But let's wait and see...if this were a bet, though...;)

Yeah, let's wait and see. Even though Disney has a marketing machinery, they could sell you rabbit droppings as candy. So, in short term just looking at the numbers does not really mean much. And for Görransson' score, I bet many people just buy the book by the cover (Star Wars music). So, probably it makes more sense to see, what of this really remains of it in 10-15 years.

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The average fan doesn't really care about the score beyond the main theme, and I guarantee the main theme of Mando will still be well-liked in 10-15 years.

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4 minutes ago, Stu said:

The average fan doesn't really care about the score beyond the main theme, and I guarantee the main theme of Mando will still be well-liked in 10-15 years.

To be honest, one good theme is enough for most film score fans to like a score (including me) 

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9 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

To be honest, one good theme is enough for most film score fans to like a score (including me) 

75% of the music in each episode is a variation on the theme which gets tiering. The other 20% is just electronic noise, and the other 5% is amazing.

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20 minutes ago, Gibster said:

75% of the music in each episode is a variation on the theme which gets tiering. The other 20% is just electronic noise, and the other 5% is amazing.

There's some good underscore.  The spaghetti western bwammm stuff is boring by necessity but there are some good hybrid orchestral action tracks and memorable side themes

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And if I’m not mistaken, it was originally planned to be a feature film.   It has the DNA of a project calling for the big symphonic sound that was carried through 9 films and 2 spin-offs. 

22 hours ago, Jay said:

I guess out of all the Star Wars shows Disney is cooking up, this is literally the one that probably MOST deserves to have a score closest to Williams' OT and PT sound, since it's about a main character from those 6 films, taking place in between 2 of them

 

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Which means it's going to be the kind of show that feels like a movie streeeeeetched out to fill 6 episodes, because it basically is.  Like they just keep the initial rough cut of a movie and divide it into 6 sections.

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We never got any solid information until it was officially announced and was always a show in public. Back when it was a movie, I feel like there were some rumors that it would be a trilogy of movies. If that's the case, you're talking about six episodes to match three two hour movies. Makes a lot more sense that way, assuming a lot of it was brought over from movie form. 

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4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

And for Görransson' score, I bet many people just buy the book by the cover (Star Wars music).

 

My brother in law (a very casual geek) was telling me one visit how the music in the show really made an impression on him and wanted to hear it on its own.

 

So I guess that "fairy dust" can be just about anything if the composer knows what they're doing.

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5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Can't remember it.

 

I definitely can, having only watched some of the show two Christmases ago and never listening to the soundtrack

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5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Can't remember it.

Well, it hasn't been 10-15 years.  

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4 hours ago, Stu said:

Which means it's going to be the kind of show that feels like a movie streeeeeetched out to fill 6 episodes, because it basically is.  Like they just keep the initial rough cut of a movie and divide it into 6 sections.


I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case.  Wasn’t there some pretty extreme reworking done shortly before filming (as far as what the tone and even the intent of the story was?).  It doesn’t sound like they just took an old film script and stretched it.

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Aw man. Holt's score sounded processed for lOKI as that is what the producers wanted. She is fully capable of composing a JW score if need be, as fucking is everyone in the industry. They just do not get the opportunity as processed Balfe/JX scores have now become the standard.

 

Perhaps, quiet down and let's hear the outcome. I have full confidence she will deliver something great , or perhaps we'll get something like this:

 

 

And as always - this track is 990% better than most contemporary film music:

 

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On 25/04/2022 at 8:39 PM, Mephariel said:

 

Not sure I understand this "lowering the standard." There are multiple styles that can work for Star Wars or any other films. If you are talking about composition and technicality, nobody is going to beat Williams. That is not lowering the standard, that just that he is on another level. That is why you score your own style and you will be fine. Powell, Haab, and Göransson already did SW in several different styles. 

 

But I don't understand why this show in particular needs to have a different style. This isn't like the other shows they're pumping out; look at the massive number of returning cast members, the explicit use of Battle of the Heroes in the teaser, the importance of the story (Obi-Wan and Vader), its place in the timeline (set squarely between Episode III and Episode IV, with about 10 years on either side of it), and the fact that it was originally meant to be a film (and even now, it is still going to be a limited miniseries with no future seasons).

 

This is basically the closest thing we're ever going to get to another mainline Star Wars saga film that is set within Episodes I-VI. This could end up being essential viewing, as far as chronological live-action goes. Thus, wouldn't it make the most sense to get a guy like William Ross or Gordy Haab in there for this particular show, to make sure the score sounds just like JW's style? Or heck, even some of the Japanese guys that scored Star Wars: Visions.

 

Why are they instead going out on a limb with Holt? And also, why are they recording in LA? Gordy Haab just last month (I believe) completed recording Fallen Order 2 in London (which means it'll automatically sound more like the SW PT/OT than this will); assuming the game comes out later this year, won't it be kind of pathetic if the most "Star Wars-sounding" SW soundtrack we get this year is for a video game, and not for this massively important show with all these cast/characters from the movies that fans have been wanting to see again onscreen for years?

 

I just don't get it. There are people out there who can make a decent-enough approximation of JW's Star Wars sound, to the point that your average viewer might even make it to the credits and be surprised to discover that Williams only did the main theme, and not the entire score.

 

15 hours ago, publicist said:

Wasn't the show and the score a resounding success? It's a validation that eclectic modern stuff works just fine.

 

Even if it "works just fine" for that show, why should such an approach work fine for this one? This one was originally supposed to be a film, it's vitally important to the overall saga, it features multiple returning cast/characters that fans have been begging to see again, and it fits neatly between Episodes III and IV. Why shouldn't this one sound virtually indistinguishable from Williams' SW style?

 

On 25/04/2022 at 3:08 PM, Holko said:

Who said it has to be a JW clone and why?

 

This show is Episode 3.5.

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In this particular case I have to agree. This show is far too interlinked with the films and familiar characters/plotlines to have the score go too far off into another direction. The other shows are of course different cases however.

 

As I've said a million times before, I'd like each of the shows the have their own unique stylistic approaches. I don't want the shows to all sound like Mando clones.

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1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

Even if it "works just fine" for that show, why should such an approach work fine for this one? This one was originally supposed to be a film, it's vitally important to the overall saga, it features multiple returning cast/characters that fans have been begging to see again, and it fits neatly between Episodes III and IV. Why shouldn't this one sound virtually indistinguishable from Williams' SW style?

 

 

Williams' style is hardly au courant with current standards (that Di$ney clearly adheres to), and also much harder to write in the days of digital editing (even for him, not even talking about a relative newbie), so the better question is: what are the odds that it isn't a regular tv score with a nod to JW's tunes here and there?

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An interview with Schweiger from last year.

 

https://youtu.be/_LcidYVTn9M

 

Also an interesting remark from Beltrami about when he does/doesn't evoke previous themes/styles in a franchise, and how he's just following orders: https://youtu.be/w09w_6Q4kdw?t=1367

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13 hours ago, publicist said:

His wife apparently was surprised, too. When she heard the theme the first time she looked at him and said 'Alan, we're rich!!'

 

He also apparently had a nervous breakdown over his first time writing for full orchestra on Fandango and his wife staged some sort of intervention to snap him out of it :lol:

 

 

 

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