Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

7 minutes ago, MikeH said:

We need a “Which Obi Wan thread is your favorite?” thread!

 

And an index!

[Edmilson 7,395]

Watched the second episode last night.

 

The music for the final scene with [spoiler]'s appearance was embarrassingly bad, just some Inception horn of dooms. Why they didn't use the

 

Spoiler

Imperial March?

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

It puzzles me. Even the music from anh would have sufficed.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The level of vitriol in this thread is so intense it feels like you have to put some sort of firm stake down as your position but I haven’t really formed a solid opinion of Holt’s part of the score. It seemed fine on my one viewing of the episodes.  It didn’t jump out at me as especially good or bad.  Like how for instance, when Gia’s imperial theme first played in Rogue One and I was like “this doesn’t work it feels like a parody.”  I like R1 enough that I’ve just gotten used to it, but it was a bad first impression.  Holt’s work didn’t make a bad first impression for me at least.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Heh. The opening of rogue one is so starwarsy that it is a shame is does not come after an opening crawl propperly.

 

 

 

 

[DangerMotif 1,037]

 

[Brónach 1,301]

I don't understand the overinsistence of assembling the score by reusing everything from before.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

As much as i disagree with holt approach i would never talk to her personally about that… seems rude. I am an hypocrite i suppose…

 

so what happened george saw the sequel trilogy and said : no more force theme please!

 

but really once in 90 minutes would not hace been overused.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Not hypocritical at all

[Brónach 1,301]

maybe GL did see the movies and thought hey please stop

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Lucas sanctioned clone wars music… so maybe all this modern thing is his fault….maybe he didnt like williams music that much. He butchered it afterall…

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

18 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

As much as i disagree with holt approach i would never talk to her personally about that… seems rude. I am an hypocrite i suppose…

 

I'll bash the shit out of scores I don't like on here but engaging with the composers directly to tell them you don't like their work is unthinkable to me.  Though never underestimate SW fans when it comes to crossing social boundaries.  

[Bespin 8,480]

I was about to say we'll send a delegation of people who don’t seem to like John Williams's new Theme and Natalie Holt's Score to tell them in the flesh what in their music didn't meet their expectations, and why they found it so ordinary, incorrect or inappropriate.

 

We have many Experts in musical composition in this forum, let's use them!

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

From Holt's comment on the twitter post, to be it sounds like The Force Theme will be used. Maybe later. When Obi-Wan has gained more strength

[Bespin 8,480]

Sometimes I wonder if people really understand Star Wars...

 

(I don't really wonder, I know they don't)

[Mr. Who 919]

I have not seen Obi-Wan and while I am not a big Star Wars Fan, I think JW's score (especially ROTS & TFA) are very good (though definitively not his best work). I can understand if fans want the SW shows to sound like JW's Star Wars. However, the general negative discussion in this thread against Holt and in other threads against composers that do not sound a certain way or are not "approved by JWFAN" is a bit much sometimes. Of course on a JW forum it makes sense but the discussion is often just based on stuff like "we dislike this composer, or this style" and a more open discussion, which is not based on thrashing things one doesn't like, seems like a healthier climate for discussion.

 

I myself am a fan of multiple types of film music, dating back to golden age scores, all the way to scores written in 2022 so I just don't get the tribalism. If I don't like a score then that is fine, I'll just listen to something else that I do like.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

I have not seen Obi-Wan and while I am not a big Star Wars Fan, I think JW's score (especially ROTS & TFA) are very good (though definitively not his best work). I can understand if fans want the SW shows to sound like JW's Star Wars. However, the general negative discussion in this thread against Holt and in other threads against composers that do not sound a certain way or are not "approved by JWFAN" is a bit much sometimes. Of course on a JW forum it makes sense but the discussion is often just based on stuff like "we dislike this composer, or this style" and a more open discussion, which is not based on thrashing things one doesn't like, seems like a healthier climate for discussion.

 

I myself am a fan of multiple types of film music, dating back to golden age scores, all the way to scores written in 2022 so I just don't get the tribalism. If I don't like a score then that is fine, I'll just listen to something else that I do like.

 

Agree 100%.

 

I'm the same as you. I love score from the Golden Age and I love scores that are made in 2022

[Van_Etten 111]

RCP-esque incidental music is disliked no matter its ties to Star Wars or not, or the time of release. However producers of the show also operate on liking or disliking certain style of music, so it's not so one-dimensional. Deborah Chow is not a musician, her instructions must have been basic.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

As much as i disagree with holt approach i would never talk to her personally about that… seems rude. I am an hypocrite i suppose…

If you talked to Holt about what you don't like about her score, this would definitely fall into the category "mansplaining", which is a deadbeat argument. 

 

I also tend to express myself in the first step overly critical. And for sure I am at first not very open minded.

Anyway, critical exchange and discussion can be very fruiteful in questioning things accessing them.

 

The only thing I dislike ion the one hand s pure negativity without proper arguments why, and on the other hand being discredited as some kind of hater even though I justified my critical statement with arguments, that I find worth discussing about.

 

I personally would never make a statement like "I like Golden Age scores and scores from today".

I rather would say "I like good Golden Age scores and good scores from today". And I passionately dislike those that I consider bad or boring. Same for Star Wars music.

 

How could I appreciate good music if I don't differenciate between good and bad music?

Yoou could argue, whoever makes it in the business to professionally score Holiwood movies must be brillant, so there is nothing to dislike there. Fair point. Not my view on the world. I don't need other people to tell me what I like.

 

On the other hand I made the experience, that people managed to provide me deeper inside into certain kinds of music, that I disliked at first, by explaining what they liked about it, where this or that influence comes from, what this or that represents etc. Can happen. 

[Mr. Who 919]

2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I personally would never make a statement like "I like Golden Age scores and scores from today".

I rather would say "I like good Golden Age scores and good scores from today". And I passionately dislike those that I consider bad or boring. Same for Star Wars music.

Why would anyone like scores that they find bad? Doesn’t make sense to me…and the word good (which is subjective) doesn’t seem needed in my post as it is extremely obvious that it is implied both in regard to scores from the golden age and modern scores.

[Drew 590]

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Obviously a guess, but I'd say that given Holt wasn't replaced at the last minute, LFL and the director probably think she did do a good job. She did what they asked of her. Your frustration towards the music is probably better directed at them, who decided the tone they wanted and pretty much knew what they were getting, having heard her work from Loki.

I was actually referring to not liking Kevin Kiner’s music in that post.

 

Why did George Lucas micromanage the score? He’s not even involved AFAIK. Holt has said several things that seem like lies.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

Why would anyone like scores that they find bad? Doesn’t make sense to me…and the word good (which is subjective) doesn’t seem needed in my post as it is extremely obvious that it is implied both in regard to scores from the golden age and modern scores.

You are completely right. I just wrote that, because you made that statement arguing against people who mentioned that they don't like Holt's score. You said:

 

57 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

I myself am a fan of multiple types of film music, dating back to golden age scores, all the way to scores written in 2022 so I just don't get the tribalism. If I don't like a score then that is fine, I'll just listen to something else that I do like.

First of all I am sure that people who dislike Holt's score, don't permanently listen to it. They avoid it ptobably. But still they can talk about it. Disappointment comes from unfulfilled expectations. And for Star Wars usually here around expectations are quite high. Yours might not be. Maybe that is the only difference between you and those who express their disappointment with the current score.

I unfortunately can connect to many of the negative arguments mentioned here. 

I agree, people should not spend too much energy on something they don't like. That is no good karma. But from your statement I cannot see the difference between you and the others from your argument about what you like: Good music. They do, too.

 

By the way, I didn't read any post here, someone stating that they don't like Nathalie Holt. We don't know her. It was just about her Star Wars score. That's simply not everyones cup of tea. And I personally would even go a step further and say, it lacks a certain musical quality, that I expect in a Star Wars score. But I said the same about the scores of The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett and Bad Batch.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

Bad Batch.

 

Hey, no reason to bring out negative adjectives.

[greenturnedblue 372]

I for one am grateful to be getting more Star Wars music. I'd rather get Holt's music then nothing so I don't see the point in complaining about it

[Drew 590]

I want to go back in time to 2019 and tell myself that Mandalorian season 1 would actually be the highest point of the scores to the live action shows (not counting the JW theme). I wonder how much I would have thrown up.

[Tydirium 1,166]

40 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

I for one am grateful to be getting more Star Wars music. I'd rather get Holt's music then nothing so I don't see the point in complaining about it

 

But if Holt didn't do it, you still wouldn't be getting nothing... You would potentially be getting someone better.

 

I don't understand your point. The Kenobi show was still going to be made (and thus need a composer), regardless of whether or not it was Holt who scored it... There is no possible circumstance in which you would have gotten "nothing."

 

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Why did George Lucas micromanage the score? He’s not even involved AFAIK. Holt has said several things that seem like lies.

 

Holt didn't even collaborate with John Williams, but we're supposed to believe she worked with George Lucas?

 

How much you wanna bet she just saw/heard some old quote of George talking about the Force theme regarding a completely different project (if even that)?

[Van_Etten 111]

There are multiple SW shows in the making. "Nothing" is an overstatement. I'd rather choose quality over quantity.

BTW why isn't Lucas running Lucasfilm if suddenly he's meant to be responsible for some creative decisions on the show?

[Tydirium 1,166]

Lol, it's funny how Disney & co. had no interest in George's ideas for the sequels, but now he gets cited (more like blamed) for stuff like this. Does anyone really believe that GL would have been against the Force theme being used for that big moment at the end of the second episode? Or against Leia's theme being used?

 

I'd also love to hear her reason for not using the Imperial March or some other recognizable theme, to score the Vader reveal. Heck, even just reprising the last few bars of "Anakin's Dark Deeds" (the ostinato) would have been extremely effective...

 

I haven't heard about any involvement from George Lucas on this particular show, until Holt's comment. And again, it's entirely possible that (1) she made it up, or (2) she's referencing some generic comment made by him in the past, to someone else/regarding a different show.

[Faleel 5,340]

Or she miswrote George Lucas instead of John Williams....

[greenturnedblue 372]

1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

don't understand your point. The Kenobi show was still going to be made (and thus need a composer), regardless of whether or not it was Holt who scored it... There is no possible circumstance in which you would have gotten "nothing."

You know what I mean. If hypothetically it came down to Holt's music that we got, or nothing at all, I will gladly take Holt's music

[Tydirium 1,166]

2 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

You know what I mean. If hypothetically it came down to Holt's music that we got, or nothing at all, I will gladly take Holt's music

 

There's no chance of your hypothetical situation ever happening, though... So why even say that?

 

We knew we were getting an Obi-Wan Kenobi series, and we knew that somebody would have to compose music for it. That's why this forum had a thread with a poll about who would/should score it, months before the show came out.

 

I don't understand this "It's better than NOTHING" mentality. Sounds like how people settle for mediocrity, which only encourages more mediocrity in the future.

[Edmilson 7,395]

12 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

I don't understand this "It's better than NOTHING" mentality. Sounds like how people settle for mediocrity, which only encourages more mediocrity in the future.

Exactly what I think. It's because of that sort of mentality that most film music for Hollywood productions these days is so generic and mediocre. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

13 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

 

 

I don't understand this "It's better than NOTHING" mentality. Sounds like how people settle for mediocrity, which only encourages more mediocrity in the future.

To be honest I would take "no music" over a lot of the score that's there

[Alex 2,833]

I can understand the argument for different music styles when there are new characters, locations and stories  (The Mandolarian etc) but JW defined the sound for THESE characters and locations (Obi-Wan, Leia, Tatooine) and in my opinion that must be respected.
 

As someone has already mentioned, this is effectively Episode 3.5, and follows characters with various themes and motifs connected to them as well as an established orchestral palette. I don’t care about Holt’s gender or her previous work, I care about the music she produces for a franchise I care about, and quite frankly I find her and her co-composers’ handling of this unacceptable.
 

Sure, it might not be a big deal to some people, but it is to me. Film and TV music is dying a slow death and Star Wars was one of the few things I thought was sacred in terms of its sound. To hear RCP-style action music and the abandonment of previously established themes in a Star Wars production is yet another nail in the coffin.

 

Of course, maybe it is not her fault, maybe she was just following the orders of the director, but still, it really bothers me.

[Faleel 5,340]

If they were trying to reduce the use of the Force theme for just mundane uses of the Force, instead of situations like..... Ben explaining the Force in his hut, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

[artus_grayboot 77]

5 hours ago, Tydirium said:

I don't understand this "It's better than NOTHING" mentality. Sounds like how people settle for mediocrity, which only encourages more mediocrity in the future.

I agree with you on the one hand that yes, settling for less is not a good thing. But I think that @greenturnedblue's point is to look at what we did get and to enjoy it for what it is. It's a glass half-full attitude, and I find nothing wrong with that.

This is coming from someone that doesn't like RCP-style stuff either, and that isn't totally in love with much of the score for this series other than the orchestral moments I somewhat recall in the first episode. I also somewhat like the jaunty music when they're trying to find Leia in the forest when she was in the tree and supposed to be in the dress - it plays into her penchant for doing things her way. Again I've only seen the episodes once so far so that's how I recall it.

So in general, I agree with what most people are saying here because I'm biased towards orchestral music in the vein of, if not directly composed by, John Williams. I always would prefer that over synths and upfront mixed taiko drums, believe me. But the reality of the situation is that the orchestral sound for film is going away in terms of popularity, and I lament that! It makes me sad to think about it as someone that's trying to start a career in the film business. I mean goodness, it was out of fashion when Williams, Lucas and co. did it for the first Star Wars film! But I also think that there will always be a place for that type of music depending on the film (just look at Powell and the How to Train Your Dragon series! And even the newer Ghostbusters: Afterlife score; Danny Bensi and Saunder Jurriaans' score for Windfall; Emile Mosseri's score for Homecoming... just recent ones off the top of my head that are new scores which I personally find fantastic). So while maybe the new Kenobi show isn't setting high bars so far, I'm hopeful for the future landscape of film music - the concert circuit is helping this too! I just went to see some of John Williams' music in concert the other night, and people loved it!!! There's such an appeal to having real players together making music, and that will not be lost on people for a long time. Filmmakers have only to experience that to have their minds opened to what else can be done for music in films.

Just my two cents.

[greenturnedblue 372]

7 minutes ago, artus_grayboot said:

@greenturnedblue's point is to look at what we did get and to enjoy it for what it is. It's a glass half-full attitude, and I find nothing wrong with that

 

You know what they say -- Nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans. Why cant people just enjoy what we get and appreciate we are getting new Star Wars content in 2022

[artus_grayboot 77]

13 hours ago, Gibster said:

 

I believe this is referring to The Clone Wars. Based on an interview with Dave Filoni for Rebel Force Radio (back then it was called something else, forgive me), George Lucas didn't want the themes to be used a lot because they were trying to do something different. I personally also think that they were trying to have that show be inherently good based on its own storytelling merits, and not because of a heavy reliance on what came before.

But I could be totally wrong - maybe George Lucas relayed this message to Natalie Holt and her team!

[GerateWohl 4,343]

I think, it makes no sense to pick on the composers for all these immature Star Wars TV scores. They were hired and instructed to do what they did, and I am sure, they did it the best way they could.

 

We can question, If it was a good idea to hire them.

And we will never know, If we would have been happier with Williams pastiche à la Gordy Haap.

 

Basically, it is a good direction that at last Kathleen Kennedy seems to aim more for originality in the new Star Wars content instead of repetitive fan service. Took long enough.

If that goes hand in hand with a lack of quality, it is still better than this awful repetition. 

 

I am also not happy with the musical direction. It would have been worth to invest more here in maturity and quality. But I blame the producers not the composer.

[Tydirium 1,166]

2 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

 

You know what they say -- Nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans. Why cant people just enjoy what we get and appreciate we are getting new Star Wars content in 2022

 

Wow. Earlier when I read your other comment, I remember thinking to myself, "This sounds like one of those people who would say 'Can't people just be glad we're getting new Star Wars?!'"

 

Again: this mindset breeds mediocrity. I'm not just going to mindlessly "enjoy" any and every piece of crap that a multibillion dollar corporation puts out. And it's not like I'm unwilling to praise what I consider to be great Star Wars: I'm a big fan of the PT and OT, The Clone Wars, Rogue One, the KOTOR games, Jedi: Fallen Order, The Bad Batch; heck, I even like Rebels. Also enjoyed Mando for a while, though I'm starting to get tired of that one. And I'm very much looking forward to Andor and the new animated series Tales of the Jedi.

 

But there has been a decent amount of content put out since Disney took over, that I do not feel is great (or even good!) Star Wars, and as a paying customer I'm not going to just sit here and pretend that it's all great and that there are no issues. And I and other fans should be allowed to express our complaints and disapproval (with the hope that the people in charge will do better in the future!) without being labeled "toxic" or "haters."

 

In fact, for all the talk about the "toxicity" and "hate" (note that I never even said I "hate" anything, but even mere criticism tends to automatically get branded as "hate" these days) of the fandom, I'd argue that "toxic positivity"—the idea that everyone should just shut up and be thankful we're getting anything, as though our media overlords are being so incredibly gracious to give us any new Star Wars content—is a bigger problem. This mindless consumer mindset of just accepting and enjoying anything they crap out, only sends one message to Disney: that they don't actually have to work hard to deliver high-quality content, because people will always still watch and enjoy and make excuses for it, no matter what! Which results in more and more ever-inferior content. I get being glass-is-half-full, but come on.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

2 hours ago, artus_grayboot said:

So in general, I agree with what most people are saying here because I'm biased towards orchestral music in the vein of, if not directly composed by, John Williams. I always would prefer that over synths and upfront mixed taiko drums, believe me. But the reality of the situation is that the orchestral sound for film is going away in terms of popularity, and I lament that! 

 

I don't think that it's really true that the orchestral sound for film/tv is going away. Sure there are a lot of 'other ways' films get scored and more often the orchestra is accompanied by synths or electronics. But the orchestral sound is far from going away I think.

 

Last year some of the biggest films & series had orchestral scores (Just a few):

WandaVision

Luca

Fear Street

Masters Of The Universe: Revelation

Jungle Cruise

What If...?

Shang-Chi And The Legend Of The Ten Rings

Venom: Let There Be Carnage

The Last Duel

The Curse Of Turandot

Only Murders In The Building

Ghostbusters: Afterlife

Encanto

Lost In Space

Hawkeye

Being The Ricardos

Succession

Nightmare Alley

Spider-Man: No Way Home

The King's Man

 

Sure, not everybody will like everything (and more). But I don't think the orchestral sound is going away

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Gordy Harp

 

That's the guy who only writes for solo harp, right?

[GerateWohl 4,343]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That's the guy who only writers for solo harp, right?

Äh, Haap.

[1977 1,743]

17 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

It puzzles me. Even the music from anh would have sufficed.

 

Kinda makes one wish Gia had gotten the gig. His treatment of this and 

Spoiler

the Imperial March

were terrific despite what the naysayers opine.

 

If Seth MacFarlane had worked on this it would have gotten a kick-ass SW orchestral score for sure. He at least understands the importance of this type of music in shows that evoke the romance and drama of outer space.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

48 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

If Seth MacFarlane had worked on this it would have gotten a kick-ass SW orchestral score for sure. He at least understands the importance of this type of music in shows that evoke the romance and drama of outer space.

We might have get Joel McNeely for sure and perhaps Williams would have forgive him Shadow of the Empire

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Nah, that's unforgivable.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

Meanwhile, there has been done worse to Star Wars, musically.

Much worse.

[Brónach 1,301]

4 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

Wow. Earlier when I read your other comment, I remember thinking to myself, "This sounds like one of those people who would say 'Can't people just be glad we're getting new Star Wars?!'"

 

To this I would answer: no!

[DarthDementous 1,059]

3 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

Kinda makes one wish Gia had gotten the gig. His treatment of this and 

  Reveal hidden contents

the Imperial March

were terrific despite what the naysayers opine.

 

If Seth MacFarlane had worked on this it would have gotten a kick-ass SW orchestral score for sure. He at least understands the importance of this type of music in shows that evoke the romance and drama of outer space.

I was thinking about this earlier how Star Wars really needs an 'Orville' equivalent that learns from the mistakes of the modern incarnation and delivers on what people love about the franchise even if it's not necessarily in the same universe

5 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

Wow. Earlier when I read your other comment, I remember thinking to myself, "This sounds like one of those people who would say 'Can't people just be glad we're getting new Star Wars?!'"

 

Again: this mindset breeds mediocrity. I'm not just going to mindlessly "enjoy" any and every piece of crap that a multibillion dollar corporation puts out. And it's not like I'm unwilling to praise what I consider to be great Star Wars: I'm a big fan of the PT and OT, The Clone Wars, Rogue One, the KOTOR games, Jedi: Fallen Order, The Bad Batch; heck, I even like Rebels. Also enjoyed Mando for a while, though I'm starting to get tired of that one. And I'm very much looking forward to Andor and the new animated series Tales of the Jedi.

 

But there has been a decent amount of content put out since Disney took over, that I do not feel is great (or even good!) Star Wars, and as a paying customer I'm not going to just sit here and pretend that it's all great and that there are no issues. And I and other fans should be allowed to express our complaints and disapproval (with the hope that the people in charge will do better in the future!) without being labeled "toxic" or "haters."

 

In fact, for all the talk about the "toxicity" and "hate" (note that I never even said I "hate" anything, but even mere criticism tends to automatically get branded as "hate" these days) of the fandom, I'd argue that "toxic positivity"—the idea that everyone should just shut up and be thankful we're getting anything, as though our media overlords are being so incredibly gracious to give us any new Star Wars content—is a bigger problem. This mindless consumer mindset of just accepting and enjoying anything they crap out, only sends one message to Disney: that they don't actually have to work hard to deliver high-quality content, because people will always still watch and enjoy and make excuses for it, no matter what! Which results in more and more ever-inferior content. I get being glass-is-half-full, but come on.

Yes, exactly this. Star Wars is in a state that I frankly hate precisely because of this genuinely toxic attitude to just 'shut up and let people enjoy what they like' whenever the slightest bit of critical thinking enters into the mix. Just once I'd like to be able to express criticism without being lumped into this gigantic category that puts all this stuff on me that I don't believe in at all. There is literally zero downside to being critical of what you watch, if more people did that then there would be a demand for higher quality entertainment which means everyone wins

Constantly giving Star Wars a pass over and over is just going to lead it into the inevitable dumpster fire that so many other beloved franchises have become, and at least some of those had the excuse of scarce releases. Star Wars has turned into the MCU in terms of its quantity and yet people are still treating it like it's special and something to be cherished when something new comes out? It makes absolutely no sense, like it's a ghost being defended instead of the actual thing it is now

If I don't at least attempt to be honest with how I feel about something and hopefully explaining why that that is, ideally encouraging others to do the same, then the audience remains complacent and the quality of these products remains stagnant or in the worst case scenario actually gets worse. If I 'shut up and let people enjoy what they like' then it's contributing to making the products in a franchise I love worse which has a direct effect on my enjoyment, so of course I give a damn and want to say something

Stop regurgitating the same lazy rhetoric over and over again, 'it's a space fantasy so writing doesn't matter', 'no one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans', 'just be happy you're getting anything at all', you have absolutely no idea how detrimental this is to the discourse or how widespread these beliefs are. Actually engage with what people are saying specifically, don't lump them all into some anomalous category so you don't have to address anything they said. You're holding this series to such a low standard when the series has been at a far higher standard before, hold it to what it was at its best because otherwise the bar just gets exponentially lowered

Apologies for the rant, I'm just so very sick of seeing the same lazy engagements over and over again

[GerateWohl 4,343]

Something in these discussions sometimes gets lost, which is to my mind especially important for Star Wars music: 

After all we are talking about musical compositions, not about instruments or sounds.

I wouldn't mind, if we got for a new series a sophisitcated new compositions with maybe synthetic sounds or folk instruments, as long as they are written in the same idiom as the original Star Wars score of the romantic musical tradition of the 19th and the early 20th century. I don't care about beats per minute. But I would at least like so hear something as impressive as the little flute interlude after the original 1977 main title march.

 

That is where I think, that the scores of Michael Giacchino and John Powel at least leaned into the right direction. Probably The Mandalorian messed it all up and burried the motivation for such sophisticated scores.