SPACECAMP (1986) - NEW! 2022 2-CD Intrada Records

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Got my copy and listened to it.  Thoroughly enjoyed it; that's a terrific Williams score, is what that is.  I already knew that, but this new release really caused the fact to sink in for me.

[filmmusic 1,823]

7 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

Got my copy and listened to it.  Thoroughly enjoyed it; that's a terrific Williams score, is what that is.  I already knew that, but this new release really caused the fact to sink in for me.

Can you pinpoint the difference between tracks 1 and 21 of cd1?

Is it a different mix?

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

The waveform looks very different, but my ears tell me that it maybe just a different mix. But since everything is film version mix... i'm swapping track 1 with track 21 in my itunes tracklist.

[Jay 37,323]

14 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Can you pinpoint the difference between tracks 1 and 21 of cd1?

Is it a different mix?

 

Williams put a different take of the main title on the OST album than what went in the film.

 

The new main program opens with the same take he put on the album, and then the film take is a bonus track

[GerateWohl 4,344]

Just from reading the tracklist it looks like there is nothing on disk 2 that isn't already on disk 1. Even the album edits are on disk 1. Just the mixing seems to be different on disk 2.

[Jay 37,323]

Correct!

[publicist 4,643]

5 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Just from reading the tracklist it looks like there is nothing on disk 2 that isn't already on disk 1. Even the album edits are on disk 1. Just the mixing seems to be different on disk 2.

 

I've no interest in this release, but since this different mixing (the LP mix) was done by a guy named Len Engel, i will just give a word of caution: this guy sure has a bad track record, he did for instance the first release of 'The Final Conflict', which sounded like it was recorded off a tv set. So the difference might be bigger than you think.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

1 hour ago, filmmusic said:

Can you pinpoint the difference between tracks 1 and 21 of cd1?

Is it a different mix?

 

Track 21 is 3:14 whereas track 1 is 3:10.  Beyond that, nope, sure can't.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Williams put a different take of the main title on the OST album than what went in the film.

 

The new main program opens with the same take he put on the album, and then the film take is a bonus track

Did williams ask for the album version be put on the main program? Heck it is on disc 2 already ( and three previous releases…)

 

i still dont understand why a performance good enough for release within the film is so bad compared to williams album choice, in his (williams) opinion. Its not te first time he has done it, irrc.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

2 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

i still dont understand why a performance good enough for release within the film is so bad compared to williams album choice, in his (williams) opinion. Its not te first time he has done it, irrc.

 

It doesn't have to be "so bad". But the other one might be better (subjectively or objectively), so that's what you'd choose for the listening presentation. Then you get the film version as an alternate. And the original album with a different mix that possibly would make integrating the disc 2 version with the main programme problematic.

[Jay 37,323]

I don't have a clue what the situation is with SpaceCamp's main title specifically, but sometimes the only reason a different take is used in the film is because it hits sync points better than the take that the composer preferred (and put on the album)

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

So disc 1 track 1 and disc 2 track 1 are the same performance but different mix? I thought it was theexact same cue. Makes sense then, still i would have used the film version in the main program 😝

[Jay 37,323]

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

So disc 1 track 1 and disc 2 track 1 are the same performance but different mix? I thought it was theexact same cue. Makes sense then, still i would have used the film version in the main program 😝

 

Everything on disc 2 is an identical performance to what's on disc 1.  It's just a different mix.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I don't exactly find it taxing to have to listen to any of this more than once.

[Gurkensalat 339]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Everything on disc 2 is an identical performance to what's on disc 1.  It's just a different mix.

 

This is one of the cases I would have preferred a cheaper 1 CD version without the CD2 program, which offers not much of additional value. I suspect its inclusion is rather due to the wish to increase the price of the set and offering something in return. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

I very much doubt that.

[ThePenitentMan1 742]

48 minutes ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

This is one of the cases I would have preferred a cheaper 1 CD version without the CD2 program, which offers not much of additional value. I suspect its inclusion is rather due to the wish to increase the price of the set and offering something in return. 

 

Mike Matessino stated in a recent podcast that Doug Fake wanted the original master for the OST preserved on the second disc of this release.  I wonder if those who have one of the earlier OST reissues could compare the two and see if the sound quality is better on Disc 2 of this release?

 

While I do agree that including the full OST program on a second disc wasn't necessary for this release to be considered "complete"—FWIW, I didn't even bother ripping the second disc—I always admire the preservationist sentiment of these sorts of ventures.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

2 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

Mike Matessino stated in a recent podcast that Doug Fake wanted the original master for the OST preserved on the second disc of this release.

 

I don't know Doug Fake's reason, but I could imagine it being something as simple as: Even if the mix of the album is inferior in every way, someone would complain loudly for the next ten years that the original mix was censored.

[GerateWohl 4,344]

3 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I don't know Doug Fake's reason, but I could imagine it being something as simple as: Even if the mix of the album is inferior in every way, someone would complain loudly for the next ten years that the original mix was censored.

But that person could then either wait for a re-issue of the OST or ask me for my copy or just check it out on YouTube.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

They could, but would they?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

 

24 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I don't know Doug Fake's reason, but I could imagine it being something as simple as: Even if the mix of the album is inferior in every way, someone would complain loudly for the next ten years that the original mix was censored.

 

I guess it's one of the following:

1) One has the better mix and the other has the better sound quality.

2) JW requested the OST to be included.

[Jay 37,323]

2 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

This is one of the cases I would have preferred a cheaper 1 CD version without the CD2 program, which offers not much of additional value. I suspect its inclusion is rather due to the wish to increase the price of the set and offering something in return. 

 

On 20/05/2022 at 4:49 PM, Jay said:

I really enjoyed the conversation about placing this score in the context of where JW was in his career at this time, and how where Spielberg was in his career and personal life at the time affected the path of Williams' film score selection as well.

 

It was also interesting to learn about how Disney purchasing Fox led to this release being possible, and that Mike initially only wanted to release what is Disc 1 of this set because the album mix is only subtly different from the film mix and he had room to include the one album combo track as a bonus track anyway, but that Doug Fake wanted to include the OST album on a second disc, so that's what happened.

 

It was also very cool to hear Mike Matessino talk about being younger and waiting patiently for a new Williams score to arrive in stores, the frustration with hearing cool Williams music that couldn't be purchased (like his Amazing Stories scores), and copying the SpaceCamp LP to cassette, but doing it in chronological order, to listen to on his walkman.  I did this exact thing when I was in middle school with the Star Wars scores, playing the 1993 anthology set on the CD player on my dad's living room system while recording it to cassette, but in chronological order, also including the Mynock Cave music from the TESB OST CD and the full Training a Jedi from the Gerhardt CD, etc etc.

Great stuff!

 

[Bespin 8,480]

"Subtily" different is different.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

9 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

I don't exactly find it taxing to have to listen to any of this more than once.

I listened to it today and im amazed at how williams in his prime this score is. Its a well round up complete score from beggining to end.

[Amer 2,080]

I love this post ET/ Raiders/Temple of Doom period when he was doing Amazing Stories, Olympics, Liberty Fanfare.The score is vintage Williams in his 80s mode full of invention and optimism.  

[Brundlefly 2,385]

12 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

This is one of the cases I would have preferred a cheaper 1 CD version without the CD2 program, which offers not much of additional value. I suspect its inclusion is rather due to the wish to increase the price of the set and offering something in return. 

I agree.

 

9 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I don't know Doug Fake's reason, but I could imagine it being something as simple as: Even if the mix of the album is inferior in every way, someone would complain loudly for the next ten years that the original mix was censored.

You shouldn't pay any attention to these people, otherwise terrible things like the film version end credits suites replacing the originally composed end credits music will happen.

[QuartalHarmony 542]

If CD2 hadn’t been included then, as surely as night follows day, this thread would have swerved into a series of rants from a tiny handful of people about how we were all being ‘shat on’ by the labels because they ‘couldn’t be arsed’ including the ‘vastly superior and completely different’ mixes, without which this release was not complete and, therefore, the whole release was a worthless lie.

 

Mark

[King Mark 3,626]

On 23/05/2022 at 5:58 PM, Luke Skywalker said:

Did williams ask for the album version be put on the main program? Heck it is on disc 2 already ( and three previous releases…)

 

i still dont understand why a performance good enough for release within the film is so bad compared to williams album choice, in his (williams) opinion. Its not te first time he has done it, irrc.

He probably doesn't remember scoring this movie

[mstrox 6,647]

On 20/5/2022 at 4:49 PM, Jay said:

It was also interesting to learn about how Disney purchasing Fox led to this release being possible, and that Mike initially only wanted to release what is Disc 1 of this set because the album mix is only subtly different from the film mix and he had room to include the one album combo track as a bonus track anyway, but that Doug Fake wanted to include the OST album on a second disc, so that's what happened.

Thanks Doug!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

8 hours ago, QuartalHarmony said:

If CD2 hadn’t been included then, as surely as night follows day, this thread would have swerved into a series of rants from a tiny handful of people about how we were all being ‘shat on’ by the labels because they ‘couldn’t be arsed’ including the ‘vastly superior and completely different’ mixes, without which this release was not complete and, therefore, the whole release was a worthless lie.

Nope, not on this forum. That would be a bit much.

[rough cut 1,714]

So which mix is better?

[BB-8 3,461]

So it's basically like having two Vodka-Martinis, one shaken, the other stirred.

[Gurkensalat 339]

23 hours ago, Jay said:

Mike initially only wanted to release what is Disc 1 of this set because the album mix is only subtly different from the film mix and he had room to include the one album combo track as a bonus track anyway, but that Doug Fake wanted to include the OST album on a second disc, so that's what happened.

 

 

I know that, but the question is, WHY did he want to include it. :-)

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Is he the one who wanted 3CDs for Inchon?

[ciarlese 248]

8 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

I know that, but the question is, WHY did he want to include it. :-)

This is allowing them to increase the selling price of this set by $12  🤔

[Yavar Moradi 2,593]

1 hour ago, ciarlese said:

This is allowing them to increase the selling price of this set by $12  🤔

 

Uh... you think Intrada was going to price SpaceCamp at $19 for a single CD? Last year they charged $22 for a 26 minute Goldsmith album.  

https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12187/.f

 

Yavar

[ciarlese 248]

4 hours ago, ciarlese said:

This is allowing them to increase the selling price of this set by $12  🤔

@Bespin I see my posts make you bored: if you tell me what's wrong with them I may start to work on the issue and give my little contribution to make your life better...

[Bryant Burnette 654]

10 hours ago, ciarlese said:

This is allowing them to increase the selling price of this set by $12  🤔

 

If charging $12 more for a collection of great music like this makes it more likely to happen with some other collection of great music, they can have my $12.

[ciarlese 248]

2 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

 

If charging $12 more for a collection of great music like this makes it more likely to happen with some other collection of great music, they can have my $12.

I wasn't complaining, I was trying to answer to a question 😉

[GerateWohl 4,344]

The biggest question is, what do I do with my single disc OST If I buy this one?

Probably I will keep it just for the liner notes.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

14 hours ago, ciarlese said:

This is allowing them to increase the selling price of this set by $12  🤔

 

I personally doubt that they would directly do that, mainly because their costs are going to vary so much between projects. I also fall into the camp that whatever they do, someone somewhere doesn't like it, and that $12 is going towards their next project which could turn out to be a grail.

[Antonb 118]

Yay mine has arrived ! 12 days after I ordered it. The fastest I have received an order from Intrada or La La records for that matter! Happy.

[nfjfnedjfdjd 13]

.

 

 

[Jay 37,323]

How cool would it be if hearing this score again to approve this release leads to JW busting out the end credits for concert performance?

[ciarlese 248]

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I personally doubt that they would directly do that, mainly because their costs are going to vary so much between projects. I also fall into the camp that whatever they do, someone somewhere doesn't like it, and that $12 is going towards their next project which could turn out to be a grail.

I am sure 99% of people here don't mind about the money needed to purchase a new MM edition of a JW score.

I am personally a fan of the new editions including the original album as well.

As I have already mentioned, I was only trying to answer a question raised in this conversation, and at no point it was my intention to complain.

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

39 minutes ago, Jay said:

How cool would it be if hearing this score again to approve this release leads to JW busting out the end credits for concert performance?

 

He can premiere SpaceCamp alongside The Rise of Skywalker 

[Amer 2,080]

I was actually thinking the same but I think Williams prefer to choose the most commercially viable/ successful film scores in the concert hall these days. He may not have fond memories of that one owing to the dismal performance of that film and  from that tragic time. But This is something that Keith Lockhart could resurrect with the Boston Pops. Wasn't he planning a follow up album to his previous Williams album?

[Andy 4,092]

If he wasn't, he most definitely should.  I love that album.

[Groovygoth666 650]

Got mine this afternoon, seems Royal Mail has picked up a habbit of just leaving packages on doorsteps recently.

 

@Jurassic Shark the total value was just the contents (this time it was $9), didn't have the shipping charge on it.

[crocodile 7,990]

Mine finally arrived in the UK today. Hopefully, I should have it by Monday or Tuesday.

 

Karol