Simon Franglen's AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER (2022)

[LSH 839]

 

MUSIC BY SIMON FRANGLEN

 

 

I thought I'd create a new thread for discussion of the score since, in time, it will become a huge talking point. Couple of things to start off with...

 

• According to Vanity Fair, the music heard in the teaser is Simon Franglen's. Thoughts? I rather like it. I like that it just outlines the chords of Horner's theme in what is quite a dreamy (in synth, processed voices and organ from what I can hear) piece.

 

• I have no doubt that there will be another end credits song since that was one of Franglen's production tasks on the first score. I can't personally think of anybody (relevant at least) that I would like to be involved but then I am amazingly out of touch. So much time has passed since Avatar that hardly anybody remembers Leona Lewis; she hasn't released a record in seven years.

 

Anyway I, for one, am holding out a lot of faith for this. I expect Franglen to honour Horner faithfully; I just hope that he provides enough new and arresting material to propel - what is expected to be a loooonngg franchise - forward. I care far more about Avatar music than Avatar films.

 

Discuss and argue about stuff now.

[Edmilson 4,985]

Nothing I've heard from Franglen has made me confidant so far that he'll write a great score. I hope he delivers, but I'm not hyped, neither for the score or movie.

[bruce marshall 1,261]

I only know MAG7.

SINEAD O'CONNOR would be my choice for vocals

[LSH 839]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Nothing I've heard from Franglen has made me confidant so far that he'll write a great score. I hope he delivers, but I'm not hyped, neither for the score or movie.

 

Hey come on Ed, be positive. 

 

 

Seriously, I too haven't really found anything Franglen has done solo thus far to be engaging either. The *hope* is that he will be inspired and encouraged enough by his loyalty to Horner and his legacy. That, and he's being given a lot of time to do it, like Horner had.

 

That, or Cameron will tell him what to do. 

 

2 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

I only know MAG7.

SINEAD O'CONNOR would be my choice for vocals

 

Interesting choice but I couldn't imagine her agreeing to anything like this. Having said that, she did do that song for The Water Horse.

 

I would choose Hannah Reid from London Grammar. Her voice is incredible.

[bruce marshall 1,261]

I don't think Sinead is in a position to turn film work  down

[LSH 839]

Perhaps not. She's quite politically/culturally volatile though. I can just imagine something about this film turning her off, and I don't even know what that would be.     

[badbu 94]

i like the little cue in the teaser trailer  i miss horner so much....

[Thor 5,974]

I haven't liked a single thing Franglen has done so far, but I'm not going to shut any doors or anything. There are indeed some interesting things going on in that trailer music (if that is indeed his), so let's hope he surprises in a positive way.

[badbu 94]

most of it will probably be by horner. some unreleased cues or something like that 

[May the Force be with You 2,032]

The only score from Franglen that I really liked is The Magnificient Seven for which he shares credits with Horner and finished what Horner started based on his sketches. I guess Avatar 2 might end up being similar with Franglen honouring Horner's materials without the greatness of Horner's touch but resulting in a really nice and decent score

[Brónach 822]

5 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

The only score from Franglen that I really liked is The Magnificient Seven for which he shares credits with Horner and finished what Horner started based on his sketches. I guess Avatar 2 might end up being similar with Franglen honouring Horner's materials without the greatness of Horner's touch but resulting in a really nice and decent score

 

Boredom ensues

[Naïve Old Fart 7,994]

10 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

I don't think Sinead is in a position to turn film work  down

She could always go onstage, and rip up a photograph of James Cameron.

[Mr. Who 718]

I have seen a clip of the movie (underwater sequence) which was shown after the remastered Avatar which was one of the most impressive cinematic experiences I’ve had! The scene looked amazing (in 3D) and the score cue was very nice. It reminded me a bit of JNH in “underwater mode” along with some Hornerisms. Very dreamy which fit perfectly for the scene.

 

I was kind of lukewarm about Frangen scoring the movie as I love the first score and don’t want a watered down version of that for the sequels but I’m slowly changing my mind after hearing this underwater cue plus the trailer music. Of course it’s still too early to say but I trust that Cameron made a good decision regarding the score!

[scallenger 426]

Didn't ya'll hear the Avatar music he did with Horner for Pandora: The World Of Avatar? I thought his work on that was great!

[WampaRat 1,097]

I’m seem to recall Horner saying in some interviews (like 2014 or so) that he was “sketching ideas” for the second film. If so, I’m sure Simon would have access to those and I’d hope he would incorporate them into his score. Thing is, I doubt Horner sketched enough material to spread between 4-5 more films lol. 

“…like butter scraped over too much bread…” - Neytiri (from Harry Potter) 😉

[Mr. Who 718]

11 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I’m seem to recall Horner saying in some interviews (like 2014 or so) that he was “sketching ideas” for the second film. If so, I’m sure Simon would have access to those and I’d hope he would incorporate them into his score. Thing is, I doubt Horner sketched enough material to spread between 4-5 more films lol. 

“…like butter scraped over too much bread…” - Neytiri (from Harry Potter) 😉

Yeah hopefully he can use sketches and maybe even unused ideas from the first score.

[Stark 189]

Franglen has also had a good seven years knowing that it was likely he would compose this, for all we know he’s been working on Avatar music and ideas that entire time.

[Mr. Who 718]

Here are some covers for Avatar: The Way of Water:

[Jokerslb 0]

Nice Artworks, can't wait to listen the score...

[Thor 5,974]

Super skeptical of the score, but crossing fingers and toes!

[Richard Penna 2,639]

Based on what he must've done for The Magnificent Seven and some orchestral library music I've heard, I see no reason to be skeptical about this.

[Edmilson 4,985]

I'd be interested to know which cues Franglen actually wrote for the first Avatar. I remember reading a rumor that he wrote the action music

[Jay 32,105]

Horner wrote the whole Avatar score. Franglen programmed all the electric percussion for him 

[HunterTech 742]

Official credits aren't exactly going to tell the truth 100% of the time, but there probably would need to be things akin to Pirates 1 being extensively documented for there to be more examples of such (or more thorough explanations for things like Trapanese allegedly being the real driving force behind TRON: Legacy).

 

Though given it’s Horner we're talking about: is it too implausible to think with how much self-recyling he does that he figured he could get away with his team reusing his material for when he's too busy to take care of a specific section? If Zimmer could get away with it, then why not him? Especially given this is a James Cameron project, so he might've figured it would alleviate the inevitable editing drama a bit.

[karelm 2,641]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

Super skeptical of the score, but crossing fingers and toes!

Don't be.  He's very solid, talented, and a longtime collaborator (more than just synth) of Horner.  Think Bill Ross to JW.  He's very familiar with Horner the man and the composer and up to the job.  I'm excited for this.  We can be sure it will feel true to the franchise.  I'm much more worried about the story and if it can maintain the films 3+ hours run time.  Unlike Star Wars, the universe just wasn't that rich or deep for mining.  There was no real mythos or rich history.  

[TolkienSS 218]

I applaude this choice. I wish more filmmakers were this uncompromising in retaining musical continuity when the OG isn't available, by hiring close collaborators who know the style, instead of pure name value that goes into business for itself.

*Cough* RoP *cough*

[Smeltington 1,093]

You're thinking of Conrad Pope?

[HunterTech 742]

12 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

I applaude this choice. I wish more filmmakers were this uncompromising in retaining musical continuity when the OG isn't available, by hiring close collaborators who know the style, instead of pure name value that goes into business for itself.

*Cough* RoP *cough*

 

Except who would fit that position in the case of Shore? Because unlike other composers that get regularly discussed, it doesn't seem like we ever mention his crew in relation to the writing process. Granted, my lack of time in the Tolkien section means I probably would've missed mentions prior, but it sure is rich of you to suddenly mention the concept here after not referring to it in past discussions related to RoP.

 

And once again, since they can't legally use material from the films, do you really want a whole 5 seasons worth of forced imitations? You really ought to stop thinking in super idealized terms for at least a second.

[Mr. Who 718]

2 new Avatar 2 covers:

[Thor 5,974]

18 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Based on what he must've done for The Magnificent Seven and some orchestral library music I've heard, I see no reason to be skeptical about this.

 

16 hours ago, karelm said:

Don't be.  He's very solid, talented, and a longtime collaborator (more than just synth) of Horner.  Think Bill Ross to JW.  He's very familiar with Horner the man and the composer and up to the job.  I'm excited for this.  We can be sure it will feel true to the franchise.  I'm much more worried about the story and if it can maintain the films 3+ hours run time.  Unlike Star Wars, the universe just wasn't that rich or deep for mining.  There was no real mythos or rich history.  

 

I'm well aware of Franglen's work, but so far none of it has impressed me much. Like THE MAG 7, NOTRE DAME ON FIRE, the Pandora thingie. Not even Malicks' VOYAGE OF TIME, a film I otherwise found excellent. I would have expected a "student" of Horner's to be a tad more interesting. But hey -- the proof is in the pudding. Maybe AVATAR 2 is what finally does it for me. The soundtrack cover looks gorgeous, anyway.

[Not Mr. Big 4,244]

18 hours ago, karelm said:

Unlike Star Wars, the universe just wasn't that rich or deep for mining.  There was no real mythos or rich history.  

Not true

Incorrect 

[publicist 4,636]

On 05/11/2022 at 12:49 AM, karelm said:

Don't be.  He's very solid, talented, and a longtime collaborator (more than just synth) of Horner.  Think Bill Ross to JW.  He's very familiar with Horner the man and the composer and up to the job.  

 

Knowing the old Horner score and Franglen's own outings (which may be competent modern scoring but completely irrelevant as contributions to the art of film music), i will slyly add you could read that as a fairly realistic prediction: don't waste any time over this. 

 

And i saw the recent trailer, which of course added to that impression.

[Jay 32,105]

How ‘Avatar: The Way of Water’ Score Pays Tribute to the Franchise’s Late Composer James Horner

[Gabriel Bezerra 130]

It looks like he's doing  what James did in the first movie... but this time Cameron is letting they do it?... Okay then, that sounds good so far.

[DangerMotif 664]

 

 

 

On 09/05/2022 at 8:09 PM, LSH said:

• According to Vanity Fair, the music heard in the teaser is Simon Franglen's. Thoughts? I rather like it. I like that it just outlines the chords of Horner's theme in what is quite a dreamy (in synth, processed voices and organ from what I can hear) piece.

 

Franglen confirmed to me that the music is not his

[TSMefford 1,437]

23 minutes ago, Gibster said:

Franglen confirmed to me that the music is not his

 

I swear trailers need to start having credits or something to quash these conflicting reports. Lol.

[Mr. Who 718]

I liked the teaser cue but interesting that it’s not Franglen.

[DangerMotif 664]

15 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

I swear trailers need to start having credits or something to quash these conflicting reports. Lol.

more of an issue that reporters have been wrong with credits about this stuff.been happening a lot

[LSH 839]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

I liked the teaser cue but interesting that it’s not Franglen.

 

Yeah, in this case - opposite to what we would normally expect - the music sounded like it definitely was from Franglen. And I'm slightly disappointed that it isn't.

[Jaaaackified 68]

Facebook

 

From Franglen himself a while back

[mstrox 5,890]

Doesn’t surprise me - sounds like standard trailer house stuff in style and instrumentation.

[A. A. Ron 1,014]

6 hours ago, Gibster said:

more of an issue that reporters have been wrong with credits about this stuff.been happening a lot

 

The average idiot makes the exact same mistake though. Every time a new John Williams movie comes out, tons of casuals get disappointed when the trailer music isn't on the album.

[leeallen01 2,036]

Man, just looking at the possibilities of this visual masterpiece, it pains me to know it's without a Horner score. What could be...

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 170]

18 hours ago, Jaaaackified said:

Facebook

 

From Franglen himself a while back

In this publication, he talks about the music of the first trailer released on November 2 and not the teaser released on May 9.

 

20 hours ago, Gibster said:

Franglen confirmed to me that the music is not his

Are you sure he was talking about the May 2022 teaser music mentioned in the Vanity Fair article?

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 170]

With an excerpt from the song "Nothing is Lost."

[DangerMotif 664]

[Joe Brausam 211]

Sounds like Horner!  I’m excited to hear something original, but I’m equally excited to be immersed in the soundscapes Horner created.

[JoeinAR 1,894]

I miss Horner dearly

[DangerMotif 664]

 

[MaxMovieMan 75]

I’m glad he’s going to use some of the themes from the first film they’re classic to me at this point. I hope they are in a decent amount of the score at least and not just cameo appearances though.

 

In another interview Franglen said that he laid the groundwork for themes used in Avatar 3 in “The Way of Water.” It’ll be interesting to listen to the album and try and spot where he’s alluding to future themes.

 

Overall I’m super excited for this movie and score I haven’t been this pumped for something since “No Way Home.”