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Simon Franglen's AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER (2022)


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7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Isn't making a playlist that undermines the composer's Intentions (or whatever) against Thor's religion?

 

No. In cases where it's either C&C or the OST is excessive and a poor listening experience (a lot of socalled OSTs these days are so only in name, not in product), making playlists myself are the last remaining option. I have a backlog of some 40-50 other titles that need similar treatment. It's a huge hassle that I'd rather be without, but if I want to keep the music in my collection and get any kind of enjoyment out of it, it needs to be done.

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

 

Yeah, I remember the two times during the actual film when Neytiri sings it. It was just the version featured as the last track of both the soundtrack (released Friday) and the score (released yesterday) that sounded more like……well, a non-diegetic recording meant to be listened to in the vein of a pop song, rather than the two diegetic versions we get during the events of the film itself that I was confused about. But thanks, this really helped a lot. 

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2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

You left out the very best track on the album, Leaving Home (aka The Hometree), and also Sanctuary. Not a fan of Franglen's new family theme? For me, these two tracks are the ones I'll certainly return to the most.

 

Isn't "Leaving Home" there, though? It's the 4th one down, in the screenshot...

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5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:


ah so the danger motif after the whale is killed is a Horner track. Felt like it.

 

 Anyone planning to do a full thematic breakdown? Might help with parsing the score. I had a slightly meh reaction to the score in the movie, save for one theme which I don’t know what it represents. But I am willing to re-engage with the score with more understanding.

Spoilers man spoilers movie just came out.

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57 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

Isn't "Leaving Home" there, though? It's the 4th one down, in the screenshot...

Yeah, you're correct. I couldn't find it at first because it was in the middle of his playlist instead of the beginning... lol

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7 hours ago, Knight of Ren said:

Here's my first attempt at a first thematic breakdown. The appearances of Horner's themes were already covered by @MaxMovieMan, so I will stick with Franglen's new themes

 

Family Theme / Songchord

This is Franglen's new main theme, and it not only serves as the emotional backbone of the entire score, but also serves as a foundation of the two songs, both The Weeknd song and the Songchord and the variations that appear through the movie. It has two separate sections, the first one being the one played the most, and the second one serving as a support for the main idea in longer cues. The track Hometree (also know as Leaving Home) serves as a sort of suite arrangement of both sections of the theme.

  • Hometree - 0:25, 1:10, 1:52 (B Section), 2:21
  • Family Is Our Fortress - 1:05, 1:30 (B Section)
  • Sanctuary - 0:19, 0:37, 1:14 (B Section)
  • Kids in Peril - 1:19 (only first 3 notes)
  • Na'vi Attack - 2:01
  • A Farwell to Arm - 0:20 (only first 3 notes)
  • Bad Parents - 1:49, 2:37, 3:07
  • Knife Fight - 0:25, 0:59, 1:32
  • From Darkness to Light - 0:54, 2:35, 3:26
  • The Spirit Tree - 1:30, 2:26

Water Tribe / Underwater Theme

The theme that represents the water tribe of the Metkayina clan, and the underwater world that surrounds them I think is the one that makes more of an impact because of its orchestrations, and it dominates the middle part of the score. It has two clear sections, one that represents more the wonder aspect of the underwater world, while the descending melody serves as an emotional interlude.

  • Sanctuary - 1:28
  • Into the Water - 0:20, 1:01 (B Section), 1:55 (B Section), 2:08, 2:39 (B Section)
  • The Way of Water - 0:26, 0:57 (B Section), 1:15
  • Friends - 0:45
  • The Tulkun Return - 0:17, 0:37 (B Section), 0:51, 1:01 (B Section), 1:11, 2:21 (B Section)

Kiri's Theme

The theme for Kiri, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids that has quite an important role in the movie, could go unnoticed by just listening to the album, but it makes a huge emotional impact when watching the movie, especially towards the third act in a very important scene where it joins with the Family theme, in the "From Darkness to Light" track. It also gets hinted at the very beginning of "The Songchord". This is definitely a theme with a lot of potential to be expanded and developed in future sequels as Kiri's story is developed.

  • Converging Paths - 0:28, 1:14
  • The Way of Water - 1:44
  • Might Eywa - 0:46
  • Cove of the Ancestors - 0:41, 0:57, 1:39, 2:17
  • Na'vi Attack - 3:13
  • From Darkness to Light - 0:32, 1:21

Payakan / Tulkun Theme

We also have gorgeous melody for Payakan, one of the Tulkun, that makes an especial connection with Lo'ak, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids. I think this theme is intended to develop greatly in upcoming sequels.

  • Payakan - 0:37 (hinted), 1:25 (hinted), 2:10, 2:54
  • Friends - 0:00 (hinted)
  • The Hunt - 1:41
  • Na'vi Attack - 0:48, 1:30 (hinted)
  • A Farewell to Arm - 1:54

Quaritch Theme

The last theme I will cover in the first part of the analysis is a trumpet melody that gets associated with Quaritch during the third act of the movie, and I think will play an important role as the character comes back in the sequels

  • Eclipse - 2:10, 2:42
  • Bad Parents - 0:42
  • Knife Fight - 0:09, 0:44

 

So this is it for the main ideas. I know I left some out, like the different ideas associated with the RDA, and some secondary motifs for the kids, but I think this serves as a great introduction to the score. I don't know if this format is adequate, so if you have any suggestions or corrections feel free to share!

Nice work! I think you can add Happiness is Easy to the Kiri theme cues. The flute in the beginning is playing a variation of her theme!

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Chronological order

 
01. Songcord Opening
02. Happiness Is Simple
03. A New Star
04. Train Attack
05. Masks Off
06. Converging Paths
07. Rescue and Loss
08. Family Is Our Fortress
09. Sanctuary
10. Into the Water
11. Training Montage
12. The Way of Water
13. Where the Men Hunt
14. Payakan
15. Mighty Eywa
16. Friends
17. Cove of the Ancestors
18. The Tulkun Return
19. The Hunt
20. Kids in Peril
21. Na’vi Attack
22. A Farewell to Arm
23. Eclipse
24. Bad Parents
25. Knife Fight
26. World Upside Down
27. From Darkness to Light
28. Family
29. Songcord Chapter
30. The Spirit Tree
31. Nothing is Lost - The Weeknd
32. Leaving Home 
33. The Songcord – Zoë Saldana
 

Note: I contacted S Franglen a few hours ago:
"Leaving Home is the full version of Sanctuary first half used in the end credits. It was an important cue to Jim and me." 
 
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4 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

Nice work! I think you can add Happiness is Easy to the Kiri theme cues. The flute in the beginning is playing a variation of her theme!


I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. 

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42 minutes ago, midgemania said:


I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. 

I could be incorrect. I’ve only listened to the standard OST twice but will listen extra carefully next time.

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2 hours ago, midgemania said:


I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. 

 

You might be right. I initially thought it was somethomg completely separate but you only hear it (twice) in that particular cue.

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10 hours ago, Tydirium said:

the aforementioned brass moment at 1:02 of "Na'vi Attack" sounds exactly like Horner.

Agreed, but the transition from that fantastic, too-short moment into the rather pedestrian 4/4 trailerized statement of Horner's main theme and (especially) the generic chugging strings and percussion that follow sum up my frustrations with the score's action music as a whole. Yes, Horner's score also had more than a little bit of "standard blockbuster" influence, but he managed to apply it in so much more of a dynamic way than Franglen seems capable of, especially in "War" which is full of delightful little sections that build upon one another: the Nicholas Dodd nearly-slurred brass at 5:28, the absolutely monumental tolling bells at 6:06, the call-and-response trumpets at 6:33, the full-on 00s-Zimmer-style go-for-broke melodrama at 6:57... The hits just keep coming and it's constantly gripping. Franglen has his moments too but they are separated by too much standard-issue material that feels like it's marking time more than anything else.

 

And don't get me wrong, I think Franglen did a solid job overall, it's one of the better scores of the year and the more ethereal parts are spot on. But this is where the difference emerges between a competent craftsman and an actual great, for me.

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Revisiting the score after having seen the movie, I noticed a crucial action cue was missing. It's the one that should play between Kids in Peril and Na'Vi Attack, and underscores

 

Spoiler

the children swimming to escape the submarines

 

It's a shame that this cue wasn't included, it has some really nice brass writing. And there's really no excuse for not having included it on the expanded edition.

 

Anyone else found other unreleased cues that could've been in the album?

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3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Revisiting the score after having seen the movie, I noticed a crucial action cue was missing. It's the one that should play between Kids in Peril and Na'Vi Attack, and underscores

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It's a shame that this cue wasn't included, it has some really nice brass writing. And there's really no excuse for not having included it on the expanded edition.

 

Anyone else found other unreleased cues that could've been in the album?

 

Someone should ask Franglen about it on Twitter. He seems to respond to most Tweets.

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Indeed, Franglen’s Twitter has a lot of interesting tidbits if you look at the replies he makes! He says he couldn’t put the Horner quotes on the album due to it being a reuse from the first film’s album. He also says the Hometree/Leaving Home track was written for the scene Sanctuary covers in an earlier edit of the film. 

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3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone else found other unreleased cues that could've been in the album?


I just came back from watching the movie again in 2D, as I found the 3D a little disorienting - especially on an IMAX screen. It suffers a little in terms of immersion (obviously), but for my personal taste I preferred it. 
 

I had quite a drive to the cinema, so I listened to the extended score on the way. There are a couple of big sections of non-Horner music in the film that I’m sure are missing from the extended score release. The first is:
 

Spoiler

between the arrival of the Tulkun and the start of the hunt


There’s very little Horner in here. I would especially like to hear the music for:


 

Spoiler

the Payakan flashback sequence. 

 
But also one of the 3 sequences that followed on from the re-release of Avatar 1 isn’t on the soundtrack, and it has some nice underscore moments, including an interesting reharmonisation of the Payakan theme. 
 

The other gap is before Kids In Peril and underscores

 

Spoiler

from the Metkayina finding the dead whale up until Lo’ak contacts Jake. There was some really interesting music as Lo’ak dives into the water that isn’t on the extended score. 


as for the cue in between Kids in Peril and Na’vi Attack, I agree! In moments it almost sound like a John Williams caper, and certainly was more interesting than a lot of the other action music. Interestingly, I stayed this time for the music credits, and I noticed Bill Ross was an orchestrator. I wonder if he did this cue?

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55 minutes ago, midgemania said:

as for the cue in between Kids in Peril and Na’vi Attack, I agree! In moments it almost sound like a John Williams caper, and certainly was more interesting than a lot of the other action music. Interestingly, I stayed this time for the music credits, and I noticed Bill Ross was an orchestrator. I wonder if he did this cue?

I wouldn't be surprised if that cue was done by an assistant, orchestrator or additional composer, and Franglen wanted to prioritize his own material in both the OSTs. Otherwise, why not include such a crucial cue? I mean, the extended album was already 100 minutes anyway, it's not like 10 or 15 minutes more would make much of a difference.

 

12 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Wonder if there will be an FYC and if it will have any missing music.

 

I think it is quite probable, considering it just made the Oscar shortlist

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

Is this the flight moment you’re talking about? That scene is indeed thrilling and the score really elevates it!


 

Spoiler

Yes when Payakan breaches!

 

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5 minutes ago, MikeH said:


 

  Hide contents

Yes when Payakan breaches!

 

That’s such an awesome moment! I love that character! 
 

Spoiler

I actually meant the scene when the na’vi are all flying to battle on Skimwing’s and Neytiri on her Ikran, with the choir music playing (before the big showdown at the ship starts).  

 

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10 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

Love the badass statement of the Tulkun theme for that moment, followed by the trumpet clusters. Difficult to believe Horner didn’t write it himself

I wish the trumpet clusters could be heard better in film they’re so awesome on album.

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I've put on the expanded album and it's significantly better than my briefer experience with the original album was - it's certainly more engaging than I found it to start with.

 

Although one of his themes is a dead ringer for one of the melodies in The New World.

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As I saw the movie , I remember the opening of Leaving Home being played right after the Sully family arrives on the Metkayina clan, over a few shots of Na'Vi fishermen using their fish nets. For a few seconds it gave me hope that the cue would play in the movie, but then it stopped :(

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8 hours ago, MikeH said:

The big payoff sequence in the film that’s underscored with the first minute of Na’vi Attack is absolutely thrilling. It’s pure Horner through and through and I loved every second of it. Can’t imagine any other composer coming close to that. 

Maybe the coolest moment in any movie this year

Spoiler

I particularly like how it doesn't feel like a planned "beat" like in the first movie when Eywa rallies nature against the bad guys.  It comes as a genuine surprise in the scene

 

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On 21/12/2022 at 10:48 PM, Knight of Ren said:

Payakan / Tulkun Theme

We also have gorgeous melody for Payakan, one of the Tulkun, that makes an especial connection with Lo'ak, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids. I think this theme is intended to develop greatly in upcoming sequels.

  • Payakan - 0:37 (hinted), 1:25 (hinted), 2:10, 2:54
  • Friends - 0:00 (hinted)
  • The Hunt - 1:41
  • Na'vi Attack - 0:48, 1:30 (hinted)
  • A Farewell to Arm - 1:54

 

I also hear his theme in 'Kids in Peril' at 2:28 to the end.

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Just listened to the extended OST for the first time, and though it's too bad that it is missing so much music, this chronological track order with many new important cues is a way better listening experience than the regular edition OST! It's a fantastic score and I like it more with each listen/viewing of the movie.

 

Some thoughts I had: Quaritch has a B theme (played by trumpet) which is based on a rising idea from Destruction of Hometree (don't have timestamps now). Franglen plays the phrase from the first score as is and then develops it further and it appears in the second half of Rescue and Loss and towards the end of Family (which is the final Quaritch scene). 

 

I was definitively incorrect earlier when I wrote that Kiri's theme was in the Happiness cue. On my analysis spreadsheet I had put it correctly and in my post I mixed it up with Converging Paths which sounds a little bit similar in the beginning.

 

27 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

I also hear his theme in 'Kids in Peril' at 2:28 to the end.

I hear it too.

 

I'm really happy that this cue is on the OST, the Choir moment (I won't spoil the scene) is so good and I really like the intensity and the use of the RDA material and this cue is needed to set the stage for the stuff that comes after IMO. The additional cues really make the album better and I particularly like the navi choir moment in Training (which due to how that scene ends lol) is rather short. Where the Men Hunt is amazing as well and the additional action music towards the end is needed to tell the story musically.

 

When watching the movie for the second time I thought that the end has a lot of connections to titanic and Franglen's score even does this and there is a choir motif which appears twice (navi attack and knife fight) and in the latter cue, the horner piano clusters and swipes, together with the rythmic snare drums and the choir motif it really feels like the sinking of the titanic which is great! Franglen is really channeling Horner in this cue.

 

I also think I noticed a new theme which is use twice (at least) for the Metkayina Clan. It is played by solo horn in the middle of Sanctuary (right when you see their village the first time) and at the very end of into the water on piano. Sanctuary is a cue that was really missing from the regular OST.

 

The RDA has a couple of motifs but the main RDA theme has " or possibly 3 sections that often play together. The first section (A) is a rising idea that often repeats under other themes and melodies and can be heard in 0:22 in Masks Off. The second section (B) comes in at 0:30 and is played by brass usually usually). These two themes appear in A New Star, Family Is Our Fortress, The Hunt etc and often they appear alone as well, especially the A section which often works as a motor. I have to double check but it might be used at the end of Na'vi Attack accompanying the choir but as I said I haven't checked it yet. There is also a RDA two note trumpet motif which is played by horns or trumpets which I think plays in The Hunt and probably in Masks Off as well. There is also a rythmic string idea which repeats together with snare drums in a coupe of RAD heavy cues but I haven't pinned it down completely.

 

I also noticed another Horner melody being used and it is the melody which opens the film (in an unreleased cue). It plays in the very beginning of Sanctuary and at the end of Becoming One of the People (OST version) in Avatar 1. There also seems to be some kind of subtle hint to the Destruction of Hometree at the end of The Hunt and I thought on second viewing that the segue into A1 material was pretty subtle. I still think that that is an edit of the A1 cue but I'm not 100% sure.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

There also seems to be some kind of subtle hint to the Destruction of Hometree at the end of The Hunt and I thought on second viewing that the segue into A1 material was pretty subtle. I still think that that is an edit of the A1 cue but I'm not 100% sure.

 

 


On Twitter, Franglen specifically noted this moment was re-recorded, not tracked

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Something I forgot to mention is that I think in the spirit tree, at the end (before the percussion hits and the navi chant), the film version plays the opening bars of Climbing up Iknimaya.

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On 22/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Richard Penna said:

I've put on the expanded album and it's significantly better than my briefer experience with the original album was - it's certainly more engaging than I found it to start with.

 

Although one of his themes is a dead ringer for one of the melodies in The New World.

Even after death, Horner scores quote Horner scores!

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On 22/12/2022 at 9:48 PM, Richard Penna said:

Although one of his themes is a dead ringer for one of the melodies in The New World.

 

Which one?

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I've been listening more in the car and just now, and I think I must've just been in the wrong mindset when I played the original album - I'm really liking it now.

 

I don't think the themes are its strongest point in terms of originality but the action/spectacle music is pretty damn impressive particularly.

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17 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I don't think the themes are its strongest point in terms of originality but the action/spectacle music is pretty damn impressive particularly.

For me, it's the opposite: I really liked the new family/songchord theme, but I was more mixed about the action music. There's some really impressive moments in those cues (particularly from 3:43 to the end on Na'vi attack), but they're surrounded by some rather generic combos of string ostinatos and epic trailerized versions of Horner's material.

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On 19/12/2022 at 10:30 AM, Jay said:

Assuming that the Expanded Soundtrack is arranged chronologically, the only non-chronological aspect of the first soundtrack album is that "Hometree" and "Into The Water" are reversed

 

 

 

 

Hometree is the "full" version of Sanctuary, a part of end credits

 

31. Nothing is Lost - The Weeknd
32. Leaving Home 
33. The Songcord – Zoë Saldana
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