Simon Franglen's AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER (2022)

[Edmilson 7,436]

35 minutes ago, Trope said:

Not sure if this link will work, but JoAnn Kane Music Service just posted this score page from Franglen's score: 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0ezCDWTmMGZH9cJoSYDAG73GZSwQGeMYevNCnasarwb7kNnV8eVNKJPWaUfxker62l&id=100063692612491&mibextid=5zvaxg

 

Here's a screenshot of it - Does anyone recognise this being from any particular album track?

 

 

16m1? 16 reels?

 

There's something odd about this. I remember someone posted the score page for Farewell for an Arm here a few days after the movie came out, and that cue was marked as 9m2, I think. I thought that made sense that that was reel 9 cue, since it was the end of the movie. But reel 16 is just weird.

[Mr. Who 919]

4 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Hahah. No worries. I haven't seen it once.

 

But yeah that around 13 days in total non stop. So it's quite the achievement.

What are you waiting for lol! Go see it!

[leeallen01 2,136]

9 hours ago, Trope said:

Not sure if this link will work, but JoAnn Kane Music Service just posted this score page from Franglen's score: 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0ezCDWTmMGZH9cJoSYDAG73GZSwQGeMYevNCnasarwb7kNnV8eVNKJPWaUfxker62l&id=100063692612491&mibextid=5zvaxg

 

Here's a screenshot of it - Does anyone recognise this being from any particular album track?

 

 

 

If my memory serves me well, I think he said in some interviews that 'Skimming the Waves' was the original name for the Underwater Theme, essentially what is heard in full glory in 'The Tulkun Return.'

[Mr. Who 919]

57 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

If my memory serves me well, I think he said in some interviews that 'Skimming the Waves' was the original name for the Underwater Theme, essentially what is heard in full glory in 'The Tulkun Return.'

Maybe this is a suite then?

[leeallen01 2,136]

4 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

Maybe this is a suite then?

 

Perhaps a concert arrangement, considering it says Concert score on the top left.

[LSH 968]

5 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 

Perhaps a concert arrangement, considering it says Concert score on the top left.

 

'Concert score' just means that all the notes are written as they sound, i.e. not adjusted for transposing instruments.

 

For example, if a clarinet in B♭ player reads a C in concert pitch, they must play the note D on their instrument to produce the sounding note C.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Been spending some more time with this score today. Just love love love “From Darkness to Light”.  Love how the strings that play counterpoint to the family theme build and crescendo with the rising quality of swimming up for air. One of the great film cues. Brings me to tears. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

I love the little nod to Horner at 0:43, with not only the danger motif of course, but the part directly following that, before Payakan's theme blasts out.

 

 

 

 

Which is a reference to this brass fanfare at 0:55 - 

 

 

 

 

 

Also the brass fanfare on horns heard as Jake charges for battle on his Skimwing, is more pronounced in the film than in the piece 'Na'vi Attack.' In the piece it takes a slight backseat to the stabbing high brass, yet in the film it is far more showcased and 'badass' you could say, and I like it better personally.

 

Here is the horn fanfare in the score piece below at 1:03, heard behind the stabbing brass - 

 

 

 

And here's the horn fanfare as it is in the film at 0:27 in this clip - 

 

 

[Tydirium 1,167]

It sounds different because it’s a different version/recording. The film version is in a different key; notice how the horns are lower than on the album.

[Trope 527]

So I ended up inputting this page of score into Finale (notation software) and bounced out the resulting audio. Enjoy this brief portion of music!

 

[midgemania 54]

10 minutes ago, Trope said:

So I ended up inputting this page of score into Finale (notation software) and bounced out the resulting audio. Enjoy this brief portion of music!

 

Now that you mention it, I’m almost certain this is the Suite version that plays in the final credits of the film. That ends in F major like this page. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

6 hours ago, Trope said:

So I ended up inputting this page of score into Finale (notation software) and bounced out the resulting audio. Enjoy this brief portion of music!

 

 

Damn, for some reason it wont play for me. Desperate to hear it haha.

[Mr. Who 919]

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

I love that he said the main musical thing he learned from Horner was to not be afraid of a theme and to really go big and explore it, because man does Franglen utterly excel at thematic writing and development in this score.

[crumbs 14,313]

Has anyone sighted an FYC album for this score featuring more of the film music?

 

Or did these never surface because it wasn't nominated for Best Score at the AA?

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Still never got round to actually buying this yet - it's one of those scores that massively grew on me since my disappointing first listen but never graduated beyond Spotify. The main theme has also managed to become its own thing, rather than a sister theme to Horner's The New World. I credit the 'Songcord' song for that, which I think is rather good.

[leeallen01 2,136]

I haven't seen a FYC, but then again I wouldn't know where to track it down.

 

I hope it gets an extended physical release, which Franglen has hinted at. 

[Mr. Who 919]

I just saw the movie a 4th time in the cinema in 3D and it was as good as ever. I did notice a new thing in the score. The first couple of bars of Leaving Home / Hometree is used in the movie after they arrive at the Metkayina village. I also noticed quite a few quieter cues which are a bit buried in the mix. There are a lot of unreleased family theme and RDA references throughout the movie. Also the trumpet theme for quaritch (based on the ascending brass in destruction of Hometree) is so good and it works great together with Franglen’s new quaritch material!

[leeallen01 2,136]

I'm looking forward to the digital and physical release. I'll have to get both because I can't wait for the dvd to see the 3 hours of behind the scenes material. I think there's a score bts too.

[Mr. Who 919]

14 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I'm looking forward to the digital and physical release. I'll have to get both because I can't wait for the dvd to see the 3 hours of behind the scenes material. I think there's a score bts too.

Hopefully there is an extended cut someday as well!

[Mr. Who 919]

I listened to the OST again and noticed a few new things. The Family cue on the OST is not the film version, in the film the danger theme is used and leads into the quaritch trumpet solo (when he takes off on the ikran) and the danger theme is missing in the ost track.

 

I also realised that there is a theme for Tonowari and Ronal. It first appears in an unreleased cue during the scene where Jake and his family meet the Metkaina cos for the first time. The theme uses rapid trumpets and horns and plays when Tomowari arrives on his Skimwing. I noticed a version of this theme in the Na’vi Attack cue as well at around 1 minute (the only appearance of this theme on the ost).

 

The score is really a masterpiece and I love the Titanic influences. The intense strings in the first half of The Hunt are straight out of Trapped on D Deck but even there Franglen really makes it his own while paying homage to Horner and his musical language. The part with the rising brass (playing the RDA A section) and the trumpets which plays when the Harpoon boats and the Crab subs take off from the RDA ship is so good and really elevates the scene. The decision to score the hunt from the RDA’s perspective until the very end was a good call. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

I also realised that there is a theme for Tonowari and Ronal. It first appears in an unreleased cue during the scene where Jake and his family meet the Metkaina cos for the first time. The theme uses rapid trumpets and horns and plays when Tomowari arrives on his Skimwing. I noticed a version of this theme in the Na’vi Attack cue as well at around 1 minute (the only appearance of this theme on the ost).

 

 

Ah, nice spot! Never connected those moments. Now I definitely hear the similarity. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

 

The score is really a masterpiece

 

Damn right!

[midgemania 54]

I’ve just watched this on digital at home, and it confirms (to my mind at least) what I’ve suspected previously, and mentioned in other posts. The music dub in this film is, in my opinion, the worst in Cameron’s career by some margin. I don’t know whether he didn’t have confidence in Franglen’s music, or they were rushed at the end, but it’s awful.
 

The editing in some places is amateurish - brutal cross fades between Horner’s music from A1 and new Franglen music that pays no attention to key or rhythm. There’s also clearly some MIDI demo tracks in there. One of my favourite cues from the soundtrack is The Way of Water, yet in the movie it’s obviously a different, MIDI version. 
 

It’s so disappointing. The first time I saw Avatar 2 I didn’t absolutely love the music and thought it was serviceable, but grew to love it after the release of the expanded score. But it really doesn’t hold up to scrutiny at all without that scale in the cinema, and it’s almost all to do with the way it’s implemented in the movie. I so want to hear a version of The Hunt with Franglen’s score from the soundtrack - it’s so much more effective than the brutal hack of Hometree from A1. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

So apparently Franglen is going to be in Krakow for the Krakow Film Music Festival, and they're going to be performing pieces from the Way of Water at two separate concerts. 

 

I would bloody love to go, but unfortunately it's not possible for me at the moment. I have gone to three Krakow FMF's in the past. They were fantastic, and Krakow is a beautiful place and they really value Scores there. I met many composers and heard them talk about their work for hours and attended many brilliant concerts there. So so crushed I can't attend this year and specifically to miss Franglen's Avatar music performed live. 

 

I truly hope it gets concertized and performed at general concerts in the future. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

Man I'd love to hear the full (film) version of 'Na'vi Attack.' With the extra Payakan's theme as he smashes up the ship, and Jake's initial charge.

[Mr. Who 919]

2 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Man I'd love to hear the full (film) version of 'Na'vi Attack.' With the extra Payakan's theme as he smashes up the ship, and Jake's initial charge.

Plus the full Jake Sacrifice cue before the action begins.

[leeallen01 2,136]

I'm so damn annoyed. I've been to the Krakow Film Music Festival 3 times in the past. It was wonderful every time, and this year Simon Franglen is there doing workshops, Q and A's, meet and greets, discussions and premiering music from his Avatar score at several concerts.

 

It was easy to get everything I needed the 3 previous times because I had a press media pass as I was working for a film music review website. But now, as a general person needing to arrange and buy individual tickets and passes for these many events, it is impossible to do!

 

The website to purchase tickets are in polish only, and every event seems to be spread out around the city and outside of the city and the locations are even impossible to find as they don't tell you where they are and only have the Polish name etc. 

 

I really wanted to go (it's this weekend) but it seems that unless you all of a sudden live in Krakow and are polish, you don't stand a chance unfortunately. 

[Suro-Zet 7]

On 03/01/2023 at 7:51 PM, enderdrag64 said:

There's also this too:

 

I really love this soundtrack, and I fully share the view with this guy, who want 5 hours of music. The extended album is great, but this is not enough, we need more.

[Mr. Who 919]

The Avatar 2 Concert Suite has been performed in Poland!

 

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

7 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

The Avatar 2 Concert Suite has been performed in Poland!

 

 

 

 

This just makes me more sad that I couldn't find a way to buy tickets. I hope they at least release the full suite footage. Apparently it was 17 minutes long!!

 

 

[enderdrag64 624]

I finally got a chance to see this movie. This score is fantastic! Definitely going to check out the deluxe score album

[Knight of Ren 789]

I recently listened to the deluxe edition again and it's such a fantastic score! Franglen's family theme is a clear winner from start to finish and all of the different variations on it, ranging from soft and intimate to epic action arrangements are stunning. I particularly love the different appearances of the theme in Knife Fight, playing alongside one of Quaritch's themes, surrounded by some clever Horner-y orchestrations, particularly the anvil hits and the string work.

 

And I also love the choral material for the world of water, with the themes for the Underwater, Kiri and Payakan being perfectly incorporated into the fabric of the score with elegant beauty. The action is stunnng, the emotional passages beautiful and Fragnlen's use of Horner's themes and instrumentation really makes it feel like a more than worthy follow up to Horner's brilliant score for Avatar! I might watch the movie again one of these days to see again how the music works in context and to see how much important music is missing from the releases. Cannot wait to hear what Franglen does in the next movie!

[TolkienSS 407]

On 01/06/2023 at 5:24 PM, Mr. Who said:

The Avatar 2 Concert Suite has been performed in Poland!

 

 

 

Sounds absolutely generic.

[Pawel P. 738]

Been there in Krakow and the Suite sounded fantastic, no generic at all. I spoke to Simon about the chances of a releasing CD. He said that the material was prepared for the CD, but of course it's not up to him to decide.

 

He promised that he would once again write to people who decide about it. It's obvious he cares about that too.

[Jurassic Shark 12,070]

There's nothing wrong with liking generic music. Most popular music is generic. 

[JTN 2,008]

Still haven’t seen the film nor have I listened to the score. I just don’t care. The first Avatar was groundbreaking in terms of visual effects and I enjoyed James Horner’s

score. But now that I’m not interested in watching another cartoon where blue people with tails run around for 3 hours, and Horner couldn’t write the score, I don’t even feel the urge to listen to the music. Maybe when it’s released on CD. 

[Holko 9,525]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Maybe when it’s released on CD. 

What will that change?

[JTN 2,008]

48 minutes ago, Holko said:

What will that change?

My willingness of actually getting it and listening to it on a CD player.

[Holko 9,525]

Why does putting a piece of plastic in a player overwrite what you wrote before that?

[JTN 2,008]

If I’m not interested in a score, if I purchase it on CD, ergo give out money for it, then it’s kind of an “obligation” to listen to it. I have to physically own it. 
I can’t explain it better than this, my friend. I will listen to Avatar 2 if it’s released on CD and I purchase it, until then I’m just not interested in it enough. Ez van.

[Holko 9,525]

14 minutes ago, JTW said:

If I’m not interested in a score, if I purchase it on CD, ergo give out money for it, then it’s kind of an “obligation” to listen to it. I have to physically own it. 

But why purchase it to make yourself listen to it if you're not interested in it?

[JTN 2,008]

You didn’t read what I wrote. I wrote not interested Enough. It’s a high profile picture, a sequel to a film James Horner wrote the score to. I will purchase the score on CD and THEN I will listen to it, but I’m not interested in it so much that I want to listen to it on my computer or on my phone. To me listening to music on a regular CD player with big loudspeakers makes a difference. I don’t have my loudspeakers connected to my PC. And I don’t like

headphones.
 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Just dropping into this thread to say I hate Avatar, I don’t even know what Avatar is, and I have no interest in it whatsoever, but I will spend money on it. Thanks.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

You didn’t read what I wrote. I wrote not interested Enough. It’s a high profile picture, a sequel to a film James Horner wrote the score to. I will purchase the score on CD and THEN I will listen to it, but I’m not interested in it so much that I want to listen to it on my computer or on my phone. To me listening to music on a regular CD player with big loudspeakers makes a difference. I don’t have my loudspeakers connected to my PC. And I don’t like

headphones.
 

 

I mean... you could always make that connection between your PC and your speakers... The 20th century ended 23 years ago.

[Jurassic Shark 12,070]

His Spotify subscription ended.

[JTN 2,008]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

The 20th century ended 23 years ago.

Not to me it didn’t. I’m an old man. I even own a record player.

52 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

His Spotify subscription ended.

What’s Spotify?

1 hour ago, Taikomochi said:

Just dropping into this thread to say I hate Avatar, I don’t even know what Avatar is

I don’t hate Avatar and I know what Avatar is. I have seen the first film at least 5 times. I’m not however interested in the sequel, but I will purchase its score on CD. Thanks.

[Jurassic Shark 12,070]

Stop confusing Holko.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

36 minutes ago, JTW said:

I don’t hate Avatar and I know what Avatar is. I have seen the first film at least 5 times. I’m not however interested in the sequel, but I will purchase its score on CD. Thanks.

 

Your decision to purchase and hear a score is entirely based around whether it gets release on a shiny CD, and not in any way based on whether you actually like it?

 

You're massively missing out on the advantages of streaming and previewing, just so that you only ever have to hear music on a nice stereo system.

[Brónach 1,302]

he can put digitalized music into his stereo for sure

 

but perhaps not if he's an old man

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

3 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

Just dropping into this thread to say I hate Avatar, I don’t even know what Avatar is, and I have no interest in it whatsoever, but I will spend money on it. Thanks.

The Nickelodeon show for kids will always be the TRUE Avatar for me.!