Thor 8,326 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Isn't making a playlist that undermines the composer's Intentions (or whatever) against Thor's religion? No. In cases where it's either C&C or the OST is excessive and a poor listening experience (a lot of socalled OSTs these days are so only in name, not in product), making playlists myself are the last remaining option. I have a backlog of some 40-50 other titles that need similar treatment. It's a huge hassle that I'd rather be without, but if I want to keep the music in my collection and get any kind of enjoyment out of it, it needs to be done. Suro-Zet and 1977 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonRain96 11 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Jay said: Yeah, I remember the two times during the actual film when Neytiri sings it. It was just the version featured as the last track of both the soundtrack (released Friday) and the score (released yesterday) that sounded more like……well, a non-diegetic recording meant to be listened to in the vein of a pop song, rather than the two diegetic versions we get during the events of the film itself that I was confused about. But thanks, this really helped a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,267 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Edmilson said: You left out the very best track on the album, Leaving Home (aka The Hometree), and also Sanctuary. Not a fan of Franglen's new family theme? For me, these two tracks are the ones I'll certainly return to the most. Isn't "Leaving Home" there, though? It's the 4th one down, in the screenshot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F 100 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: ah so the danger motif after the whale is killed is a Horner track. Felt like it. Anyone planning to do a full thematic breakdown? Might help with parsing the score. I had a slightly meh reaction to the score in the movie, save for one theme which I don’t know what it represents. But I am willing to re-engage with the score with more understanding. Spoilers man spoilers movie just came out. Mr. Who and Suro-Zet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 8,898 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 57 minutes ago, Tydirium said: Isn't "Leaving Home" there, though? It's the 4th one down, in the screenshot... Yeah, you're correct. I couldn't find it at first because it was in the middle of his playlist instead of the beginning... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,379 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Well now my comment makes no sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 992 Posted December 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2022 Here's my first attempt at a first thematic breakdown. The appearances of Horner's themes were already covered by @MaxMovieMan, so I will stick with Franglen's new themes On 16/12/2022 at 1:15 AM, MaxMovieMan said: AVATAR MAIN THEME (“I SEE YOU”) Happiness Is Simple - 1:35 Hometree - 2:48 Friends - 1:19 Cove of the Ancestors - 1:15, 1:54 Na’vi Attack - 1:14, 2:19, 2:38, 2:51 WOODSPRITES MOTIF Converging Paths - 1:02 Cove of the Ancestors - 2:14 NA’VI CULTURE THEME Na’vi Attack - 0:49 NA’VI BATTLE THEME Na’vi Attack - 2:42 GRIEF THEME Eclispe - 1:31 Family Theme / Songchord This is Franglen's new main theme, and it not only serves as the emotional backbone of the entire score, but also serves as a foundation of the two songs, both The Weeknd song and the Songchord and the variations that appear through the movie. It has two separate sections, the first one being the one played the most, and the second one serving as a support for the main idea in longer cues. The track Hometree (also know as Leaving Home) serves as a sort of suite arrangement of both sections of the theme. Leaving Home - 0:25, 1:10, 1:52 (B Section), 2:21 Hapiness Is Simple - 0:03 (variation), 1:02 (variation) Family Is Our Fortress - 1:05, 1:30 (B Section) Sanctuary - 0:19, 0:37, 1:14 (B Section) Kids in Peril - 1:19 (only first 3 notes) Na'vi Attack - 2:01 A Farwell to Arm - 0:20 (only first 3 notes) Bad Parents - 1:49, 2:37, 3:07 Knife Fight - 0:25, 0:59, 1:32 From Darkness to Light - 0:54, 2:35, 3:26 The Spirit Tree - 1:30, 2:26 Water Tribe / Underwater Theme The theme that represents the water tribe of the Metkayina clan, and the underwater world that surrounds them I think is the one that makes more of an impact because of its orchestrations, and it dominates the middle part of the score. It has two clear sections, one that represents more the wonder aspect of the underwater world, while the descending melody serves as an emotional interlude. Sanctuary - 1:28 Into the Water - 0:20, 1:01 (B Section), 1:55 (B Section), 2:08, 2:39 (B Section) The Way of Water - 0:26, 0:57 (B Section), 1:15 Friends - 0:45 The Tulkun Return - 0:17, 0:37 (B Section), 0:51, 1:01 (B Section), 1:11, 2:21 (B Section) Kiri's Theme The theme for Kiri, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids that has quite an important role in the movie, could go unnoticed by just listening to the album, but it makes a huge emotional impact when watching the movie, especially towards the third act in a very important scene where it joins with the Family theme, in the "From Darkness to Light" track. It also gets hinted at the very beginning of "The Songchord". This is definitely a theme with a lot of potential to be expanded and developed in future sequels as Kiri's story is developed. Converging Paths - 0:28, 1:14 The Way of Water - 1:44 Might Eywa - 0:46 Cove of the Ancestors - 0:41, 0:57, 1:39, 2:17 Na'vi Attack - 3:13 From Darkness to Light - 0:32, 1:21 Payakan / Tulkun Theme We also have gorgeous melody for Payakan, one of the Tulkun, that makes an especial connection with Lo'ak, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids. I think this theme is intended to develop greatly in upcoming sequels. Payakan - 0:37 (hinted), 1:25 (hinted), 2:10, 2:54 Friends - 0:00 (hinted) The Hunt - 1:41 Kids in Peril - 2:29 Na'vi Attack - 0:48, 1:30 (hinted) A Farewell to Arm - 1:54 Quaritch Theme The last theme I will cover in the first part of the analysis is a trumpet melody that gets associated with Quaritch during the third act of the movie, and I think will play an important role as the character comes back in the sequels Eclipse - 2:10, 2:42 Bad Parents - 0:42 Knife Fight - 0:09, 0:44 So this is it for the main ideas. I know I left some out, like the different ideas associated with the RDA, and some secondary motifs for the kids, but I think this serves as a great introduction to the score. I don't know if this format is adequate, so if you have any suggestions or corrections feel free to share! Mr. Who, TheUlyssesian, LSH and 12 others 3 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,267 Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2022 I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've listened all the way through the OST once and the score album a couple times, not to mention numerous replays of various favorite tracks. Overall, I'm really impressed. I for one was actually really excited back when I heard that Franglen got the gig; to me it actually felt like a brave choice on Cameron's part, giving such a big score/series to a relative "nobody" (no offense to Franglen) in the film composer world. It told me that he actually valued trying to keep Horner's influence alive in the series. Franglen may not be Horner, but a lot of his stuff sounds pretty darn close. For example, the aforementioned brass moment at 1:02 of "Na'vi Attack" sounds exactly like Horner. Franglen's new themes are good, maybe not anything groundbreaking, but good enough. And I expect they will get some great development in the sequels. I'm also really thankful that Cameron/Franglen have enough respect for Horner's themes that they are peppered throughout the score (and as I understand it, there are even more appearances in the film itself). Thank God we didn't end up with an Amazing Spider-Man 2 situation here. I saw someone else mention earlier that they think that if Horner had scored this film, he wouldn't have done all that different from what Franglen did here. While I can't 100% agree with that statement yet as I haven't seen it, from what I'm hearing alone I do think that's probably a pretty fair statement. I've seen some criticism of Franglen's action music and the fact that he sometimes has a more RCP-esque sound than we're used to from Horner... but tbh, I've always thought Horner's Avatar has a way more "modern" sound than most of his previous scores. So imo, Franglen's music doesn't really sound too out of place; it sounds to me like a natural continuation of the sound world Horner was setting up in the first film. A lot of the ethereal water music sounds totally at home in the universe established by Horner, and a handful of the action cues directly bring to mind Horner's "War," yet without being cheap rip-offs. All in all the music now has me way more excited to see the film than I had been, before. I find myself listening to it a lot more than expected, and I'm excited to get to know it better. And I'm already looking forward to Franglen's next entry in a couple years. 1977, greenturnedblue, Mr. Who and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 982 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Knight of Ren said: Here's my first attempt at a first thematic breakdown. The appearances of Horner's themes were already covered by @MaxMovieMan, so I will stick with Franglen's new themes Family Theme / Songchord This is Franglen's new main theme, and it not only serves as the emotional backbone of the entire score, but also serves as a foundation of the two songs, both The Weeknd song and the Songchord and the variations that appear through the movie. It has two separate sections, the first one being the one played the most, and the second one serving as a support for the main idea in longer cues. The track Hometree (also know as Leaving Home) serves as a sort of suite arrangement of both sections of the theme. Hometree - 0:25, 1:10, 1:52 (B Section), 2:21 Family Is Our Fortress - 1:05, 1:30 (B Section) Sanctuary - 0:19, 0:37, 1:14 (B Section) Kids in Peril - 1:19 (only first 3 notes) Na'vi Attack - 2:01 A Farwell to Arm - 0:20 (only first 3 notes) Bad Parents - 1:49, 2:37, 3:07 Knife Fight - 0:25, 0:59, 1:32 From Darkness to Light - 0:54, 2:35, 3:26 The Spirit Tree - 1:30, 2:26 Water Tribe / Underwater Theme The theme that represents the water tribe of the Metkayina clan, and the underwater world that surrounds them I think is the one that makes more of an impact because of its orchestrations, and it dominates the middle part of the score. It has two clear sections, one that represents more the wonder aspect of the underwater world, while the descending melody serves as an emotional interlude. Sanctuary - 1:28 Into the Water - 0:20, 1:01 (B Section), 1:55 (B Section), 2:08, 2:39 (B Section) The Way of Water - 0:26, 0:57 (B Section), 1:15 Friends - 0:45 The Tulkun Return - 0:17, 0:37 (B Section), 0:51, 1:01 (B Section), 1:11, 2:21 (B Section) Kiri's Theme The theme for Kiri, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids that has quite an important role in the movie, could go unnoticed by just listening to the album, but it makes a huge emotional impact when watching the movie, especially towards the third act in a very important scene where it joins with the Family theme, in the "From Darkness to Light" track. It also gets hinted at the very beginning of "The Songchord". This is definitely a theme with a lot of potential to be expanded and developed in future sequels as Kiri's story is developed. Converging Paths - 0:28, 1:14 The Way of Water - 1:44 Might Eywa - 0:46 Cove of the Ancestors - 0:41, 0:57, 1:39, 2:17 Na'vi Attack - 3:13 From Darkness to Light - 0:32, 1:21 Payakan / Tulkun Theme We also have gorgeous melody for Payakan, one of the Tulkun, that makes an especial connection with Lo'ak, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids. I think this theme is intended to develop greatly in upcoming sequels. Payakan - 0:37 (hinted), 1:25 (hinted), 2:10, 2:54 Friends - 0:00 (hinted) The Hunt - 1:41 Na'vi Attack - 0:48, 1:30 (hinted) A Farewell to Arm - 1:54 Quaritch Theme The last theme I will cover in the first part of the analysis is a trumpet melody that gets associated with Quaritch during the third act of the movie, and I think will play an important role as the character comes back in the sequels Eclipse - 2:10, 2:42 Bad Parents - 0:42 Knife Fight - 0:09, 0:44 So this is it for the main ideas. I know I left some out, like the different ideas associated with the RDA, and some secondary motifs for the kids, but I think this serves as a great introduction to the score. I don't know if this format is adequate, so if you have any suggestions or corrections feel free to share! Nice work! I think you can add Happiness is Easy to the Kiri theme cues. The flute in the beginning is playing a variation of her theme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_A_R_T_H 25 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Chronological order 01. Songcord Opening 02. Happiness Is Simple 03. A New Star 04. Train Attack 05. Masks Off 06. Converging Paths 07. Rescue and Loss 08. Family Is Our Fortress 09. Sanctuary 10. Into the Water 11. Training Montage 12. The Way of Water 13. Where the Men Hunt 14. Payakan 15. Mighty Eywa 16. Friends 17. Cove of the Ancestors 18. The Tulkun Return 19. The Hunt 20. Kids in Peril 21. Na’vi Attack 22. A Farewell to Arm 23. Eclipse 24. Bad Parents 25. Knife Fight 26. World Upside Down 27. From Darkness to Light 28. Family 29. Songcord Chapter 30. The Spirit Tree 31. Nothing is Lost - The Weeknd 32. Leaving Home 33. The Songcord – Zoë Saldana Note: I contacted S Franglen a few hours ago: "Leaving Home is the full version of Sanctuary first half used in the end credits. It was an important cue to Jim and me." leeallen01 and Leia Sees Ghosts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgemania 54 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Mr. Who said: Nice work! I think you can add Happiness is Easy to the Kiri theme cues. The flute in the beginning is playing a variation of her theme! I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 982 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 42 minutes ago, midgemania said: I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. I could be incorrect. I’ve only listened to the standard OST twice but will listen extra carefully next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 1,041 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 2 hours ago, midgemania said: I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. You might be right. I initially thought it was somethomg completely separate but you only hear it (twice) in that particular cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund 19 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Tydirium said: the aforementioned brass moment at 1:02 of "Na'vi Attack" sounds exactly like Horner. Agreed, but the transition from that fantastic, too-short moment into the rather pedestrian 4/4 trailerized statement of Horner's main theme and (especially) the generic chugging strings and percussion that follow sum up my frustrations with the score's action music as a whole. Yes, Horner's score also had more than a little bit of "standard blockbuster" influence, but he managed to apply it in so much more of a dynamic way than Franglen seems capable of, especially in "War" which is full of delightful little sections that build upon one another: the Nicholas Dodd nearly-slurred brass at 5:28, the absolutely monumental tolling bells at 6:06, the call-and-response trumpets at 6:33, the full-on 00s-Zimmer-style go-for-broke melodrama at 6:57... The hits just keep coming and it's constantly gripping. Franglen has his moments too but they are separated by too much standard-issue material that feels like it's marking time more than anything else. And don't get me wrong, I think Franglen did a solid job overall, it's one of the better scores of the year and the more ethereal parts are spot on. But this is where the difference emerges between a competent craftsman and an actual great, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 8,898 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Revisiting the score after having seen the movie, I noticed a crucial action cue was missing. It's the one that should play between Kids in Peril and Na'Vi Attack, and underscores Spoiler the children swimming to escape the submarines It's a shame that this cue wasn't included, it has some really nice brass writing. And there's really no excuse for not having included it on the expanded edition. Anyone else found other unreleased cues that could've been in the album? 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,267 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Edmilson said: Revisiting the score after having seen the movie, I noticed a crucial action cue was missing. It's the one that should play between Kids in Peril and Na'Vi Attack, and underscores Reveal hidden contents the children swimming to escape the submarines It's a shame that this cue wasn't included, it has some really nice brass writing. And there's really no excuse for not having included it on the expanded edition. Anyone else found other unreleased cues that could've been in the album? Someone should ask Franglen about it on Twitter. He seems to respond to most Tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,217 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Indeed, Franglen’s Twitter has a lot of interesting tidbits if you look at the replies he makes! He says he couldn’t put the Horner quotes on the album due to it being a reuse from the first film’s album. He also says the Hometree/Leaving Home track was written for the scene Sanctuary covers in an earlier edit of the film. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgemania 54 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Edmilson said: Anyone else found other unreleased cues that could've been in the album? I just came back from watching the movie again in 2D, as I found the 3D a little disorienting - especially on an IMAX screen. It suffers a little in terms of immersion (obviously), but for my personal taste I preferred it. I had quite a drive to the cinema, so I listened to the extended score on the way. There are a couple of big sections of non-Horner music in the film that I’m sure are missing from the extended score release. The first is: Spoiler between the arrival of the Tulkun and the start of the hunt There’s very little Horner in here. I would especially like to hear the music for: Spoiler the Payakan flashback sequence. But also one of the 3 sequences that followed on from the re-release of Avatar 1 isn’t on the soundtrack, and it has some nice underscore moments, including an interesting reharmonisation of the Payakan theme. The other gap is before Kids In Peril and underscores Spoiler from the Metkayina finding the dead whale up until Lo’ak contacts Jake. There was some really interesting music as Lo’ak dives into the water that isn’t on the extended score. as for the cue in between Kids in Peril and Na’vi Attack, I agree! In moments it almost sound like a John Williams caper, and certainly was more interesting than a lot of the other action music. Interestingly, I stayed this time for the music credits, and I noticed Bill Ross was an orchestrator. I wonder if he did this cue? Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr. Who 982 Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2022 8 hours ago, midgemania said: I’m not sure this is the Kiri theme - this sounds like a tribal / indigenous variation of the Family / Songcord theme. It has that same perfect 5th leap as the start of the Songcord theme, and the subsequent harmonisation is the same. After just having seen the film again (which is just great), I think you’re right, it’s the family theme that is played by the flute in Happiness is simple, not Kiri’s theme (which doesn’t make sense thematically either). The RDA material was mostly pretty clear to me when watching the theme and there’s 2 main sections a sect (ascending line) and the horn call (b sect) + there’s a rhythmic component which is often used + a string run like motif you hear more than once + the trumpet theme. I’m not sure if there’s 3 trumpet themes or only one because in the fu al quaritch scene there is a trumpet melody playing which is a rearrangement of a Horner theme from the first score. I will see if it appears on the extended ost which I haven’t hear yet. I noticed quite a bit of unreleased music and on second viewing I don’t think that that much is actually tracked, most of the Horner quotes are rearranged and it’s a shame that they’re unreleased. The very first cue for instance is a great variation of the melody at the end of the Becoming One of the People OST cue (can’t say the theme name right now) and then a slow variation of the main theme. This plays before the songcord and should really have been on the album. There’s loads of unreleased music with the new themes as well plus a false start version of Happiness if Easy that quickly goes over into military brass as we see the RDA base (scene from the first film). Then the full happiness cue plays like on the ost. There’s a great deal of unreleased action material as well including the buildup to the showdown (I won’t say more because of spoilers). the weeknd end credits song is not the album version and the film version is shorter and sounds more orchestral and less produced. The first time I saw the movie I mainly noticed Horner’s themes and the family theme but on second viewing (after having heard the regular ost) I’m a really big fan of the music and think franglen did a fantastic job and is clearly the right composer to score the sequels and to continue Horner’s legacy with the use of his themes and sounds! I’m really looking forward to listening to the longer ost and hope that it contains the most important cues. Trope, MikeH, Taikomochi and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,746 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Wonder if there will be an FYC and if it will have any missing music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 8,898 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 55 minutes ago, midgemania said: as for the cue in between Kids in Peril and Na’vi Attack, I agree! In moments it almost sound like a John Williams caper, and certainly was more interesting than a lot of the other action music. Interestingly, I stayed this time for the music credits, and I noticed Bill Ross was an orchestrator. I wonder if he did this cue? I wouldn't be surprised if that cue was done by an assistant, orchestrator or additional composer, and Franglen wanted to prioritize his own material in both the OSTs. Otherwise, why not include such a crucial cue? I mean, the extended album was already 100 minutes anyway, it's not like 10 or 15 minutes more would make much of a difference. 12 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: Wonder if there will be an FYC and if it will have any missing music. I think it is quite probable, considering it just made the Oscar shortlist 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MikeH 787 Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2022 The big payoff sequence in the film that’s underscored with the first minute of Na’vi Attack is absolutely thrilling. It’s pure Horner through and through and I loved every second of it. Can’t imagine any other composer coming close to that. crumbs, Mr. Who, Taikomochi and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 5,277 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Strange that Bill isn't credited on IMDB yet. He even posted about it on Facebook last week... 1977 and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr. Who 982 Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, MikeH said: The big payoff sequence in the film that’s underscored with the first minute of Na’vi Attack is absolutely thrilling. It’s pure Horner through and through and I loved every second of it. Can’t imagine any other composer coming close to that. Is this the flight moment you’re talking about? That scene is indeed thrilling and the score really elevates it! Not Mr. Big, MikeH and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 787 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mr. Who said: Is this the flight moment you’re talking about? That scene is indeed thrilling and the score really elevates it! Spoiler Yes when Payakan breaches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Taikomochi 1,217 Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2022 Love the badass statement of the Tulkun theme for that moment, followed by the trumpet clusters. Difficult to believe Horner didn’t write it himself leeallen01, Not Mr. Big, MaxMovieMan and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 982 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, MikeH said: Hide contents Yes when Payakan breaches! That’s such an awesome moment! I love that character! Spoiler I actually meant the scene when the na’vi are all flying to battle on Skimwing’s and Neytiri on her Ikran, with the choir music playing (before the big showdown at the ship starts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 298 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Taikomochi said: Love the badass statement of the Tulkun theme for that moment, followed by the trumpet clusters. Difficult to believe Horner didn’t write it himself I wish the trumpet clusters could be heard better in film they’re so awesome on album. Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 4,168 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 I've put on the expanded album and it's significantly better than my briefer experience with the original album was - it's certainly more engaging than I found it to start with. Although one of his themes is a dead ringer for one of the melodies in The New World. Stark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaxMovieMan 298 Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2022 After seeing the movie I like the score even more. It works so well in the film and it genuinely seemed like James Horner was revived at some points. There were a lot of moments with Horner’s themes that I wish were added to the albums but they’re similar enough to the OG film that I can just listen to the first score. It’s always interesting to see a composer so completely copy the style of another but here it’s done in a good way. Mr. Who, Not Mr. Big, crumbs and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 8,898 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 As I saw the movie , I remember the opening of Leaving Home being played right after the Sully family arrives on the Metkayina clan, over a few shots of Na'Vi fishermen using their fish nets. For a few seconds it gave me hope that the cue would play in the movie, but then it stopped MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,739 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 8 hours ago, MikeH said: The big payoff sequence in the film that’s underscored with the first minute of Na’vi Attack is absolutely thrilling. It’s pure Horner through and through and I loved every second of it. Can’t imagine any other composer coming close to that. Maybe the coolest moment in any movie this year Spoiler I particularly like how it doesn't feel like a planned "beat" like in the first movie when Eywa rallies nature against the bad guys. It comes as a genuine surprise in the scene MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,174 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 On 21/12/2022 at 10:48 PM, Knight of Ren said: Payakan / Tulkun Theme We also have gorgeous melody for Payakan, one of the Tulkun, that makes an especial connection with Lo'ak, one of Jake and Neytiri's kids. I think this theme is intended to develop greatly in upcoming sequels. Payakan - 0:37 (hinted), 1:25 (hinted), 2:10, 2:54 Friends - 0:00 (hinted) The Hunt - 1:41 Na'vi Attack - 0:48, 1:30 (hinted) A Farewell to Arm - 1:54 I also hear his theme in 'Kids in Peril' at 2:28 to the end. Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 982 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Just listened to the extended OST for the first time, and though it's too bad that it is missing so much music, this chronological track order with many new important cues is a way better listening experience than the regular edition OST! It's a fantastic score and I like it more with each listen/viewing of the movie. Some thoughts I had: Quaritch has a B theme (played by trumpet) which is based on a rising idea from Destruction of Hometree (don't have timestamps now). Franglen plays the phrase from the first score as is and then develops it further and it appears in the second half of Rescue and Loss and towards the end of Family (which is the final Quaritch scene). I was definitively incorrect earlier when I wrote that Kiri's theme was in the Happiness cue. On my analysis spreadsheet I had put it correctly and in my post I mixed it up with Converging Paths which sounds a little bit similar in the beginning. 27 minutes ago, leeallen01 said: I also hear his theme in 'Kids in Peril' at 2:28 to the end. I hear it too. I'm really happy that this cue is on the OST, the Choir moment (I won't spoil the scene) is so good and I really like the intensity and the use of the RDA material and this cue is needed to set the stage for the stuff that comes after IMO. The additional cues really make the album better and I particularly like the navi choir moment in Training (which due to how that scene ends lol) is rather short. Where the Men Hunt is amazing as well and the additional action music towards the end is needed to tell the story musically. When watching the movie for the second time I thought that the end has a lot of connections to titanic and Franglen's score even does this and there is a choir motif which appears twice (navi attack and knife fight) and in the latter cue, the horner piano clusters and swipes, together with the rythmic snare drums and the choir motif it really feels like the sinking of the titanic which is great! Franglen is really channeling Horner in this cue. I also think I noticed a new theme which is use twice (at least) for the Metkayina Clan. It is played by solo horn in the middle of Sanctuary (right when you see their village the first time) and at the very end of into the water on piano. Sanctuary is a cue that was really missing from the regular OST. The RDA has a couple of motifs but the main RDA theme has " or possibly 3 sections that often play together. The first section (A) is a rising idea that often repeats under other themes and melodies and can be heard in 0:22 in Masks Off. The second section (B) comes in at 0:30 and is played by brass usually usually). These two themes appear in A New Star, Family Is Our Fortress, The Hunt etc and often they appear alone as well, especially the A section which often works as a motor. I have to double check but it might be used at the end of Na'vi Attack accompanying the choir but as I said I haven't checked it yet. There is also a RDA two note trumpet motif which is played by horns or trumpets which I think plays in The Hunt and probably in Masks Off as well. There is also a rythmic string idea which repeats together with snare drums in a coupe of RAD heavy cues but I haven't pinned it down completely. I also noticed another Horner melody being used and it is the melody which opens the film (in an unreleased cue). It plays in the very beginning of Sanctuary and at the end of Becoming One of the People (OST version) in Avatar 1. There also seems to be some kind of subtle hint to the Destruction of Hometree at the end of The Hunt and I thought on second viewing that the segue into A1 material was pretty subtle. I still think that that is an edit of the A1 cue but I'm not 100% sure. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 982 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Here are a few more Avatar: The Way of Water covers (one for Payakan & Lo'ak, Jake, Neytiri & Lo'ak) greenturnedblue and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,217 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Mr. Who said: There also seems to be some kind of subtle hint to the Destruction of Hometree at the end of The Hunt and I thought on second viewing that the segue into A1 material was pretty subtle. I still think that that is an edit of the A1 cue but I'm not 100% sure. On Twitter, Franglen specifically noted this moment was re-recorded, not tracked Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 982 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Something I forgot to mention is that I think in the spirit tree, at the end (before the percussion hits and the navi chant), the film version plays the opening bars of Climbing up Iknimaya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,160 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 I’m waiting to hear the score in the film but you all are hyping it up pretty hard. I’m really excited. I miss James Horner so much Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark 553 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 22/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Richard Penna said: I've put on the expanded album and it's significantly better than my briefer experience with the original album was - it's certainly more engaging than I found it to start with. Although one of his themes is a dead ringer for one of the melodies in The New World. Even after death, Horner scores quote Horner scores! Mitth'raw'nuorodo and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 1,041 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 22/12/2022 at 9:48 PM, Richard Penna said: Although one of his themes is a dead ringer for one of the melodies in The New World. Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 4,168 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 51 minutes ago, LSH said: Which one? It's heard in a few places (also in the song) but this one for example: Also getting Legends of the Fall vibes from 'The Tulkun Return'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 8,898 Posted December 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2022 As a whole, the Avatar 2 score has inumerous "Hornerisms" that long time fans will be able to identify, and not only callbacks to the first Avatar. It's a nice treat for fans, but also a cruel reminder of how great Horner used to be and how good the score could've been if he hadn't boarded that stupid plane. Tydirium, enderdrag64, Not Mr. Big and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 4,168 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 I've been listening more in the car and just now, and I think I must've just been in the wrong mindset when I played the original album - I'm really liking it now. I don't think the themes are its strongest point in terms of originality but the action/spectacle music is pretty damn impressive particularly. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 8,898 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 17 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I don't think the themes are its strongest point in terms of originality but the action/spectacle music is pretty damn impressive particularly. For me, it's the opposite: I really liked the new family/songchord theme, but I was more mixed about the action music. There's some really impressive moments in those cues (particularly from 3:43 to the end on Na'vi attack), but they're surrounded by some rather generic combos of string ostinatos and epic trailerized versions of Horner's material. leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,160 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 I'm hopefully seeing this in an hour or so. I'm very excited to hear what Franglen's done. Nevermind, my friend got into a car accident! He's okay but movie is rescheduled. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post leeallen01 2,174 Posted December 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2022 The Aliens reference at 0:33! This piece is the best action piece of the score, I think. It's just pure Horner. The whole thing is a beautiful mix of Horner's action style in Aliens and Titanic with those scraping strings and metalic percussion, and then it's expertly driven with Franglen's great Family Theme throughout. crumbs, Tydirium, enderdrag64 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,217 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 It also sounds a ton like Quaritch Down from the first score, but I guess that was just cribbing Aliens anyways leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_A_R_T_H 25 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 On 19/12/2022 at 10:30 AM, Jay said: Assuming that the Expanded Soundtrack is arranged chronologically, the only non-chronological aspect of the first soundtrack album is that "Hometree" and "Into The Water" are reversed Hometree is the "full" version of Sanctuary, a part of end credits 31. Nothing is Lost - The Weeknd 32. Leaving Home 33. The Songcord – Zoë Saldana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,379 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 Why did you type different text into your quote of my post, than what exists in my actual post? 1977 and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post D_A_R_T_H 25 Posted December 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2022 ??? sorry , I don't know how to use the forum well MaxMovieMan, Chewy, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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