John Powell - THE BOURNE IDENTITY (2002) - 2022 Varese Sarabande expanded edition

[Anthony 572]

1 hour ago, OneBuckFilms said:

So it effectively IS complete.

 

Like Powell's other expansions, it's "complete" as far as it is presented how Powell originally intended, before accounting for special film edits and mixes.

[Demondm810 397]

Good enough for me! 

[Richard Penna 3,664]

That's how every expansion works, not just Powell's. It's very rare for them to contain anything that was done editorially for the film, so if there's a case where the editors remixed a cue and tracked it somewhere else, we're probably not going to get that version.

 

And there have been some high profile recent examples, such as the film 'version' of Ripples from TLW being unavailable even on LLL's box because it's editorically created using a mix of the intended cue that we don't have.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

The FSM Star Trek III excludes a cue created editorially in post production, as an example I know of.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

How can a piece of music that was UNUSED be missing?

You only know about the cue because you heard it on illegally  obtained session leaks.

So, therefore it MUST be included?

Please correct me if I misinterpreted your claim.

[Jay 37,249]

You misinterpreted. They are saying they heard music in the film that they were hoping to get on this release, that didn't seem to be included based on the tracklist 

[Holko 9,491]

But obviously unused cues including alternates have to be included on a proper comprehensive release too.

[Yavar Moradi 2,576]

21 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

How can a piece of music that was UNUSED be missing?

You only know about the cue because you heard it on illegally obtained session leaks.

So, therefore it MUST be included?

Please correct me if I misinterpreted your claim.

 

Sometimes cues that go unused in the film are included on original soundtrack albums! Prominent examples date all the way back to at least The Blue Max by Goldsmith, which had major highlight cues omitted from the film entirely, and replaced with tracked music (or horribly truncated). For a film music album, why does it matter what was USED in the film rather than what was WRITTEN AND RECORDED FOR the film? Your logic is the kind that supports that terrible "Ultimate Edition" of The Phantom Menace, exactly matching all the music in the film -- to a fault (with edits and omissions of recorded music).

 

For a more recent example that I personally worked on, we can look at Varese's new Deluxe Edition of Lionheart from last year. Goldsmith's masterful score for that film is perhaps even more badly treated within it than The Blue Max decades before! Goldsmith wrote and recorded two back-to-back cues for the film which introduced the theme for the primary antagonist ("Bondage" and "The Black Prince"). But they were left off both original volumes of music from the film, and left out of the film itself. I only knew these cues existed because I researched and found them listed on a (legal) website:

http://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71302978

 

So I knew for sure these cues were written, but were they recorded? I searched far and wide, with many different people, but long story short: Doug Fake of Intrada had them because he was there at the original Lionheart sessions (immediately preceding the sessions for Intrada's new recording of Islands in the Stream) and he had made a reference copy for himself. They weren't in as high quality sound as Varese's original album masters, but once I heard the transfer of those cues I knew they MUST be included on the new edition -- they are INTEGRAL to the architecture of the score as Goldsmith originally conceived it, because without them the theme for the primary antagonist is first introduced in an action cue where it's jumbled in with a lot of other musical material. It isn't established on its own in straightforward guise right beforehand, as it should have been, before Goldsmith plays around with it in that action cue. And even though those two cues constitute less than five minutes of music, they are a very important five minutes of music and the whole score program absolutely would have been diminished without them, no matter that they didn't appear in the film (which by the way almost nobody saw anyway, so why would you care what was in the film Bruce?)

 

Yavar

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

2 hours ago, Evanus said:

You mean this one, right?

 

It does seem to be missing, yeah. I'm still not convinced the entire film score is actually there, but we'll see.

Yep, that’s the one.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Sounds like Riverdance on speed.

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

How can a piece of music that was UNUSED be missing?

You only know about the cue because you heard it on illegally  obtained session leaks.

So, therefore it MUST be included?

Please correct me if I misinterpreted your claim.

If something is a part of a larger work and it’s not present, it makes perfect sense to say that it’s missing, but more importantly, I never said anything HAD to be included. I said I wanted it to be included. I had the bootleg because I wanted more material, but I happily ordered a copy as soon as an expanded product became available. I’m allowed to be disappointed that music I have and enjoy isn’t being made officially available.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Sounds like Riverdance on speed.

How can they tell this cue apart from the rest of the score?😅😛

 

Btw I know soundtrack albums often include cues not used in the film- great cues.

But, in the past- before session leaks- we didn't know it was UNUSED unless it appeared on official ost .

 

 

Yavar,

You know you don't HAVE to reply to every post I make.

Take a rest😉,

 

[Richard Penna 3,664]

Meh, you're worse than Thor. At least he has a clear stance of just wanting the OST, and not needing any more material.

 

Stick with OSTs. It'll be easier for all of us.

[HunterTech 982]

I was gonna make the point that Thor at least doesn't actively mock us for the expansion preferences, but I got a hunch Bruce would tell me I'm getting worked up over a "joke" again 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

30 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

I was gonna make the point that Thor at least doesn't actively mock us for the expansion preferences, but I got a hunch Bruce would tell me I'm getting worked up over a "joke" again 

 

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

God, you’re so cool.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

18 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

God, you’re so cool.

I know !

[Anthony 572]

Wow! So unless I'm mistaken, Powell's "new" main theme in Supremacy was ACTUALLY originally written for the "Bourne On Land (Alternate Version)" cue here, but then went unused until the second movie!

[Jay 37,249]

Wow thats neat

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

13 hours ago, Anthony said:

Wow! So unless I'm mistaken, Powell's "new" main theme in Supremacy was ACTUALLY originally written for the "Bourne On Land (Alternate Version)" cue here, but then went unused until the second movie!

 

Yeah it's very similar to the "Morning Run" cue from Supremacy, just with a piano. Very cool!

[Trope 516]

Hello! Can anyone who already has this release confirm if the "Bourne Remembers" piece (i.e. the music that plays during the final flashback to Wombosi's boat, when he doesn't follow through with the assassination attempt) is available on the album in the form of some alternate track? I've already ordered the album but it will take a few weeks to get to Sydney. Thanks!

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

6 minutes ago, Trope said:

Hello! Can anyone who already has this release confirm if the "Bourne Remembers" piece (i.e. the music that plays during the final flashback to Wombosi's boat, when he doesn't follow through with the assassination attempt) is available on the album in the form of some alternate track? I've already ordered the album but it will take a few weeks to get to Sydney. Thanks!

 

It's not included.

[Trope 516]

[Anthony 572]

Interestingly, at least 1 "album version" from the OST remains - "Hotel Regina" is actually two cues - "Hotel Regina" + "Bourne Flattens Cops" from the park scene in Zurich. It was like that on the OST, and it's like that here.

 

2 hours ago, Trope said:

Hello! Can anyone who already has this release confirm if the "Bourne Remembers" piece (i.e. the music that plays during the final flashback to Wombosi's boat, when he doesn't follow through with the assassination attempt) is available on the album in the form of some alternate track? I've already ordered the album but it will take a few weeks to get to Sydney. Thanks!

 

The cue as Bourne scales the wall of the embassy isn't here either. I'd been looking forward to that one. Oh well. Creating cues from scratch in post/after the score has been recorded is obviously a thing too - it's not just rearranging existing material

[Jay 37,249]

That quote from Powell about the album presenting the original cues as recorded, and not the last minute cues created at the dub, I interpreted to mean those cues were tracked pieces of existing cues edited together in unique ways to form "cues". 

 

But now it seems they recorded actual true new compositions last minute, and he just didn't want to include them? 

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Recorded or synth composed?

[Jay 37,249]

Probably synth right? 

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

26 minutes ago, Jay said:

That quote from Powell about the album presenting the original cues as recorded, and not the last minute cues created at the dub, I interpreted to mean those cues were tracked pieces of existing cues edited together in unique ways to form "cues". 

 

But now it seems they recorded actual true new compositions last minute, and he just didn't want to include them? 

Maybe the last minute cues were written/adapted by other composers.

[Evanus 216]

That's a real shame. No real reason for me to buy this release then, honestly.

 

Hope they release a proper complete version someday.

[Stark 306]

What a bizarre tracklist - there’s still quite a bit of music missing (most of which leaked so we can verify it’s not in the alts).

[bruce marshall 1,314]

[Evanus 216]

23 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

When it's missing one of the best cues, yeah.

[iamleyeti 114]

On 27/5/2022 at 4:18 PM, Anthony said:

Wow! So unless I'm mistaken, Powell's "new" main theme in Supremacy was ACTUALLY originally written for the "Bourne On Land (Alternate Version)" cue here, but then went unused until the second movie!

I was going through the album and I was like "wow, this is fantastic!!" Very very cool — I love his use of accordion in the 3rd version of the track.

[Trope 516]

I'm really enjoying all the new material on this album AND the remastered mix, although it is a shame that the score is not "truly" complete (in terms of extra post-dub material). Does everyone else hear a strange phasing issue on the final string chord in "At the Bank"? Approximately around 4:00 in that track. I noticed it's not on the original album release and would like to confirm that it's not an issue with my CD.

 

It's also interesting to note that the tracks "Love Scene" and "Bourne Watches Kids Sleep" are nearly (if not completely) identical. I can't remember if this is the case in the movie. [EDIT: Yes, they are like this in the film.]

[OneBuckFilms 319]

This one has revisiting power. A lot of it. I love the alternates for the opening, and there is additional clarity in the mix for my ears compared to the OST.

[Trope 516]

One final observation: It appears that the final track on the album, "Got Any ID?" has been transferred at the wrong sample rate, meaning it plays back slightly slower and pitched lower, compared to what it should be. This one was an easy catch, as the track segues into Extreme Ways in the movie, which begins in B minor. In the film, "Got Any ID?" is in B minor, to allow for a smooth transition between pieces. Check it out (around 1:20 in the video): 

 

To confirm this was the case, I dragged my 44.1kHz file of this track into Logic and converted the project to 48kHz and, voila: The track plays back at the correct speed and pitch, so it's not too much trouble to fix on your own. Even if you don't have the album, you can listen to the sample of this track on the Varèse website to compare with the film (if you can be bothered). This is the exactly the same thing that happened with the Prologue in John Williams' Hook soundtrack release (even down to the same key!). I do wonder how this got past whoever checks these things before albums release...

[Evanus 216]

Some weird things going on with this release. 

 

The alternate version of "Bourne on Land" is a bit puzzling. The same track can be found in the leaked sessions from Supremacy, as a demo for "Morning Run". That makes more sense to me than it being an alternate version for a track in Identity, and I doubt that's actually the case. So it's a bit strange they included it here.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Looks like I have a correction to make ...

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

38 minutes ago, Trope said:

To confirm this was the case, I dragged my 44.1kHz file of this track into Logic and converted the project to 48kHz and, voila: The track plays back at the correct speed and pitch, so it's not too much trouble to fix on your own.

 

Can't say I'm surprised. Fingers crossed for Presumed Innocent.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Okay, I'm going to recreate the transition as well as make the correction. It works so well.

[Trope 516]

3 minutes ago, Evanus said:

Some weird things going on with this release. 

 

The alternate version of "Bourne on Land" is a bit puzzling. The same track can be found in the leaked sessions from Supremacy, as a demo for "Morning Run". That makes more sense to me than it being an alternate version for a track in Identity, and I doubt that's actually the case. So it's a bit strange they included it here.

That is a great catch, it's such a bizarre decision (or mistake!) to include that track on the album! It is structured identically to "Morning Run", and it is obviously a demo (the strings are clearly samples). As has already been mentioned in this thread, it features the Supremacy theme, which had not yet been written for Identity (now confirmed by your find that this is indeed a demo for Supremacy). I wonder if any of these things will be fixed/altered for the digital release later this year...

[bruce marshall 1,314]

[Jay 37,249]

Bruce if you are not interested in this release you can stay out of this thread please and thank you

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I have to say, my assessment of this release shows only a couple of tweaks for my "digital ultimate version" ...

 

- Pitch correct "Do You Have ID?" and combine with Extreme Ways (matching the movie).

- Copy over Moby's Drum and Base Remix as Track 32.

 

Aside from the pitch issue, and the inclusion of a demo for the opening of Supremacy, everything is great.

[Jay 37,249]

So let me see if I understand this.

 

The track on this album titled "Bourne On Land (Alternate Version) 1:55" is not in the film, was not on the OST album, and has never appeared on any leak of this film's score.  It did, however appear in a leak of Supermacy's score, where it was titled "Morning Run (Demo) (1:51)".  

 

It matches the tone and feel of the Supremacy cue "Morning Run", and uses a the main theme of Supremacy's score, so therefore is more likely to truly be a "Morning Run" demo that accidentally ended up on this release, than an unused alternate for "Bourne on Land" in this score that didn't end up leaking until Supremacy's score leaked.

 

However, there is no definitive proof either way

Is that about right?

[Yavar Moradi 2,576]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Can't say I'm surprised. Fingers crossed for Presumed Innocent.

 

I mean that was produced by Mike Mattesino so I think it's a wholly different situation and you've got nothing to worry about (except maybe cover art lol).

 

Yavar

[Evanus 216]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

So let me see if I understand this.

 

The track on this album titled "Bourne On Land (Alternate Version) 1:55" is not in the film, was not on the OST album, and has never appeared on any leak of this film's score.  It did, however appear in a leak of Supermacy's score, where it was titled "Morning Run (Demo) (1:51)".  

 

It matches the tone and feel of the Supremacy cue "Morning Run", and uses a the main theme of Supremacy's score, so therefore is more likely to truly be a "Morning Run" demo that accidentally ended up on this release, than an unused alternate for "Bourne on Land" in this score that didn't end up leaking until Supremacy's score leaked.

 

However, there is no definitive proof either way

Is that about right?

Yep, pretty much. In the leak I have it's titled "1m03 c0525 Morning Run (Rough Sketch No DIA)". There's a few more demos like that included in the leak from Supremacy. Seems unlikely that it's actually from Identity.

[Jay 37,249]

Interesting - is "Bourne on Land" 1M03 in this score?

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Interesting - is "Bourne on Land" 1M03 in this score?

 

Yes it is.

[Jay 37,249]

Well then, that explains how it accidentally ended up on this album.  Someone dragged it into the wrong folder, and then no one noticed what happened!