Evanus 215 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jay said: Well then, that explains how it accidentally ended up on this album. Someone dragged it into the wrong folder, and then no one noticed what happened! That's pretty hilarious if true, but it does explain it. Now I wonder what the reason is for the missing cues.. I doubt Powell intentionally left them off, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, Evanus said: That's pretty hilarious if true, but it does explain it. Now I wonder what the reason is for the missing cues.. I doubt Powell intentionally left them off, but who knows. If you watch the special features on DVD, iTunes, etc, the filmmakers are very open about the fact that the movie originally ended shortly after the farmhouse sequence and that the last 30-40 minutes of the finished film were basically shot at the last minute. You’ll notice most of the missing cues are from that same section of the film. I think Powell or whoever was speaking with me on Instagram is right and this release really does represent the score as recorded prior to the dub. Why he doesn’t consider any material recorded after the fact good enough to release, I’ve no idea. Evanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanus 215 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Mhmm, that's the most likely explanation then. Still, it's a shame those cues are missing. The flashback music especially, it's a beautiful little track. So I still think it's odd that they decided not to include them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 371 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 One of my favourite jokes from any movie is when Bourne and Marie are at Marie's brothers place and he comes home. She says "I didnt think youd be here!" He says "Well why wouldnt I be, its only my goddamn house!" JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 So those missing cues, are they actually different pieces of music, or were they created purely in the editing bay from pieces recorded for the main program? If they were created purely editorially, then I can honestly regard this as a complete release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamleyeti 114 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 So the logical explanation is that John Powell accidentally moved the file in this folder but not that the previous leak contained a track from Bourne 1? OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 minute ago, iamleyeti said: So the logical explanation is that John Powell accidentally moved the file in this folder but not that the previous leak contained a track from Bourne 1? OK. My guess it is both. The file was dragged to the wrong folder, then it stuck there unnoticed and ended up on the leak, and subsequently this release as a result. Unless I'm misunderstanding something (possible) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,044 Posted May 31, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2022 What you are saying doesn't make any sense It was on a leak of Bourne 2, because it's a demo for Bourne 2. It was never on a Bourne 1 leak. The only logical reason it ended up on this release is that somebody included it in a repository of tracks to consider for this release, and the person making those decisions wasn't aware it was a demo of Bourne 2's 1m3 and not Bourne 1's 1m3. Trope, OneBuckFilms, enderdrag64 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 I misunderstood, so no... I did not make sense. BTW, are there plans for one of your famous spreadsheets on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 No plans on my end but hopefully someone is interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanus 215 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, OneBuckFilms said: So those missing cues, are they actually different pieces of music, or were they created purely in the editing bay from pieces recorded for the main program? If they were created purely editorially, then I can honestly regard this as a complete release. As far as I know, they're completely original, different pieces of music. Here's the flashback scene, featuring the Bourne Remembers cue: I timestamped it at around 1:10 (music starts a bit earlier, but this is where it really picks up) Pretty sure this music from 2:20 onward is missing too: The remixes aren't there either, nor is the unused chase cue which leaked out. I'm sure there's some other bits too Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted May 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2022 Y’all may find this useful: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1xQEjKlZn7dlmmx8bhCDlt3OdbX2Q-s8z/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel iamleyeti, Evanus, enderdrag64 and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 That is EXACTLY what I wanted to see. Thanks, A. A. Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,278 Posted May 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2022 You done didn't mess up [this time] A. A. Ron! A. A. Ron, Brando and OneBuckFilms 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,306 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 28 minutes ago, Counterparts said: You done didn't mess up [this time] A. A. Ron! What about De- nice? Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Slight snag on my edit. Speed correction was trivial, and I've got my fixed version there. The odd thing is that the track from the CD fades out just before the cutover. I wonder if Extreme Ways was included in the dub, but the cue was faded out because of licensing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 12 hours ago, Trope said: To confirm this was the case, I dragged my 44.1kHz file of this track into Logic and converted the project to 48kHz and, voila: The track plays back at the correct speed and pitch, so it's not too much trouble to fix on your own. Even if you don't have the album, you can listen to the sample of this track on the Varèse website to compare with the film (if you can be bothered). This is the exactly the same thing that happened with the Prologue in John Williams' Hook soundtrack release (even down to the same key!). I do wonder how this got past whoever checks these things before albums release... Ssooooo stupid question... How do I fix the track in Audacity? OneBuckFilms 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,044 Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 On 22/04/2022 at 11:12 PM, Manakin Skywalker said: In Audacity, import the file and open the dropdown menu (click on the filename on the left next to the waveform), hover over "Rate", and select "48000 Hz". That's it. OneBuckFilms 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Much appreciated! OneBuckFilms 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 About all I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony 572 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 So because of the early fade out, does that mean a clean transition between the cue and Extreme Ways isn't possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 315 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Very difficult. The slow fade is almost silent at the point Extreme Ways starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,355 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 So Varese should fix all of that right? That sample rate mistake is ridiculous. 16 hours ago, Trope said: I do wonder how this got past whoever checks these things before albums release... Oh great question... maybe nobody checked it. Out of curiosity, was this release edited by the same guy who did the Rogue One expansion? Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,276 Posted June 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, Chewy said: Out of curiosity, was this release edited by the same guy as the Rogue One expansion? That release was edited? Multiple tracks had extended silences they didn't bother to trim out. Probably the laziest expansion ever released by a major label. Brando, Trope and Chewy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,355 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Just now, crumbs said: That release was edited? Multiple tracks had extended silences they didn't bother to trim out. Well the last track was definitely edited! crumbs and Trope 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Their quality assurance guy didn't like film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,276 Posted June 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Their quality assurance guy didn't like film music. The quality assurance department at Disney Records: Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Brando, JTN and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,223 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 43 minutes ago, crumbs said: The quality assurance department at Disney Records: He has a slightly hunched back. That explains a lot. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,355 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 So has anyone contacted Varese about these issues? Should we do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 32 minutes ago, Chewy said: So has anyone contacted Varese about these issues? Should we do it? I was under the impression this was produced by Powell/5 Cats, and Varese is just manufacturer/distributor. Should the issues not be raised with Powell & co. rather than Varese? Chewy and Evanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Yes, exactly. Varese just released the program Powell and 5Cats gave them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony 572 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 What exactly are the issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 490 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 On 08/06/2022 at 4:19 PM, Anthony said: What exactly are the issues? These are the issues discovered so far (there may be more...): Track 6 "Bourne on Land (Alternate Version)" [1m03] is a demo from The Bourne Supremacy, and does not belong to The Bourne Identity soundtrack. Track 31 "Got Any ID?" plays back at the wrong pitch and speed due to a sample rate mistake. Track 8 "At the Bank" has a phasing issue on the final string chord (around 4:01), which isn't present on the OST release. Track 19 "Hotel Regina" includes 2 different cues edited together (identical to the OST track). The music from about 1:47 onwards should technically be placed after "Bourne on Land" (this might not count as a "real issue" to be fixed, but it's the only cue that appears out of chronological order). [EDIT] Track 20 "The Investigation" has a distorted reverb tail/echo on the string swell (mainly in the right channel), which is not on the OST. Am I missing anything major? Has somebody else uncovered some startling new revelation about this expansion? JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,612 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Another error - the cover of my copy says “Tumescent Edition” ??????????????????????? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 490 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, mstrox said: Another error - the cover of my copy says “Tumescent Edition” ??????????????????????? That's no error - it's what John Powell decided to name this release. mstrox and Disco Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,612 Posted June 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2022 When I worked at a movie theater, someone - at the time, we figured it was teenaged rascals - changed the large outdoor marquee from “Bourne Identity” to “Boner Tity.” By labeling this album “Tumescent Edition,” it’s pretty clear to me that Powell was the culprit all along. Jay, Jurassic Shark, Smeltington and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 490 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I'm sad to report I've found what I believe to be yet another blunder on this release. At around 1:01 in track 20 "The Investigation", there is a bizarre, distorted reverb tail applied to the string swell (mainly in the right channel). This is NOT on the OST. It seems that a few errors were made when remastering this score... It's a real shame, because the overall sound of this release is a nice improvement compared to the original OST mix (it feels tighter and "crispier", especially the percussion). Still, it's disappointing that these blunders weren't double checked and noticed by anybody before releasing the album. I hope the label will fix these issues, at least for the digital release later this year, because I really enjoy listening to this score. What would be truly amazing would be if they offered "fixed" replacement discs to those who have already purchased this faulty product (but I feel this is unlikely...). One other thing: I wonder if "Conklin Killed" on this release is a demo? The strings at the beginning sound like samples to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I still mostly just want to know the story on the boat flashback cue instead of just making educated guesses. If it was created after the initial dub, how? from what? by whom? Evanus and Trope 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,619 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 It would be nice if the liners went into details like that. Not only from an analytical pov, but they know very well that people buying these expansions will know the score and notice things that appear to be missing. Trope and ThePenitentMan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trope 490 Posted August 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2022 Hello everyone. It's been a while since this thread was active but I thought I should share with you the results of my attempts to have the aforementioned issues with this released looked into (and ultimately fixed) by the label. Way back on June 11, I emailed Varèse's help address, mentioning the issues I had come across and asking if there was someone from the label who might look into these issues and sort them out for future pressings/digital release. Customer support was very accomodating, telling me they wanted to look into any evidence I could provide, which I did. I took time to carefully include excerpts of audio with evident mastering faults (all clearly labelled and described), and I also mentioned that track 6 "Bourne on Land (Alternate Version)" was potentially a demo from Supremacy ("Morning Run") that could have mistakenly ended up being included on this release, due to the 1m03 cue number. I was told that my evidence would be sent to the relevant team and that I would hear back from them. I didn't hear back for weeks, so I sent a follow-up email just to make sure my case hadn't been lost or forgotten. I was told that the team hadn't replied, but I would definitely hear back as soon as they had something to say. From June 24 to August 3, there was no correspondence. I let the case sit and, since I wasn't listening very much to the expanded Tumescent Identity soundtrack (having lost my enthusiasm for it on account of the present flaws), I didn't feel the need to keep up a constant stream of emails. On August 3, nearly 2 months after my initial email, I send a further email expressing my disappointment in Varèse's apparent failure to even acknowledge my case, let alone take any action on it. I was contacted by the same customer service employee, letting me know that they genuinely had passed on my evidence to the team, but hadn't heard back from anyone and the issue had gotten lost over time. They promised to follow it up again, and on August 9, I finally received a response from the label, which read as follows: "The album was personally assembled by John Powell and his team. John specifically requested it be called "The Tumescent Edition" instead of the traditional Deluxe Edition because it is not a simple extension of the score that appears in the film. It's possible perhaps that the elements you point out were created during the period when he was working on the score which led to their inclusion. Hopefully the all-encompassing response is satisfactory as only John would be able to answer your more specific questions. Thanks for the purchase and hope you enjoy the album more with this context." I must confess that I am fairly disappointed in the outcome of this nearly 2-month long process. I feel this response doesn't adequately address the evidence I provided, but there's not much else I can say or do. Ignoring the inclusion of what appeared to be the Supremacy demo, the statement makes it look like John Powell and his team are personally responsible for the faults on this expansion (which they may well be). But I would have thought that a label which offers premium CD club expansions to a niche and dedicated group of listeners/collectors would be sure to check for errors prior to approving a release, or at least look into the evidence I provided and respond to some/any of the faults demonstrated (in my mind, the sample rate issue of the final track is undeniably an error that can easily be conceded and fixed for future pressings, and I doubt I would need to engage with Powell one-on-one for someone to notice. it). Based on the label's response, it would seem that no adjustments will be made for the future September digital release, which is a shame. This was my first time engaging with any specialty label beyond simply purchasing their products, and maybe I was too naïve in thinking that my little collection of audio evidence would have any impact whatsoever - After all, there are so many threads on JWFan alone that detail flaws (both small and great) of a number of expanded releases, and I'm sure others have contacted labels to no avail as well. Overall, it's sad that these little faults sour the taste of what looked at first sight to be a really exciting expansion of a great, influential score, and a personal favourite of mine. MaxTheHouseelf, Chewy, enderdrag64 and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,619 Posted August 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2022 Indeed, that's a disappointingly generic response but perhaps for this release Varese were essentially just putting out the album and PR materials that Powell & co sent them. In my view, the inclusion of the misnamed alternate really isn't a problem. Glass half full, you've got an official release for one cue from Supremacy, and half empty, you can just ignore it. For me, missing music will always be the less forgivable aspect for expansions so it was surprising to read about the handful of missing bits. As you say, the labels know they're catering towards customers who notice this stuff. The fade-out in the last cue (before the Moby song) is just plain annoying, and is a curious detail which suggests they either didn't have the original sessions with a clean end, or thought that a fade-out was the best approach. Evanus, enderdrag64 and Trope 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,002 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 @Trope Thanks for taking the time trying to fix this issue with Varèse Sarabande. John Powell knows about the issue, I’m sure he was contacted by Varèse. I also told them about it and let Powell’s partner Holly Sedillos know as well. So John Powell is imho well aware of the situation. He may be busy writing a new score and not have time to deal with this fiasco at the moment or maybe he just doesn’t care all that much about it anymore, I don’t know. But I’m sure he knows about the issue, so that’s all we can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Anthony 572 Posted August 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2022 What is wrong with you people? Leave the man and - especially- his partner alone. This all comes across so incredibly petty. 6 hours ago, JTW said: ...he may not have time to deal with this fiasco You're kidding, right? I can only imagine what a genuine problem in your life must be like to deal with. Bofur01, HunterTech, bollemanneke and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Anthony said: You're kidding, right? I can only imagine what a genuine problem in your life must be like to deal with. I agree that there are limits in terms of contacting record labels, producers, composers, etc, but this album really is an absolute travesty compared to Powell’s other expansions. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Harassing someone’s partner about a film score CD is a new level of embarrassment for this community. JTN and bollemanneke 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Or a boundary I feel nobody should cross, just my 2 cents... A composer, producer or a label, right, but that's as far as you can go I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,790 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 It would make sense if she is part of the producing team. Is she? btw harassment doesnt kind of imply agressive behaviour? It could have been the most polite message ever….it would be just a small ‘bother’ JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 972 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Quite frankly, I'm a little surprised that quite a few here have effectively ignored what Powell has been trying to say from the start: that this was never going to be a definitive edition of the score. Just the name alone should be a giveaway that perhaps this wasn't going to satisfy some, since it almost feels like it's taking the piss by using such a term to describe itself. Plus of course the statement he made about it being the music as it originally was written/recorded (regardless of if you think it withholds any scrutiny). Now, I do think it does open the discussion towards how good of an idea it is for the original composer to be in charge of the expansion (especially with how much we rag on about OSTs). We can very well remember all the complaints about the odd sequencing choice made for HTTYD1-2 on having the film openings for the first tracks precede the original ones. And now we have Bourne, where JP has effectively made a program only he could appreciate as the one who made the score. It just makes you wonder if he would benefit from a Matessino type going forward. I would address a few of the supposed errors the set has, but I think some of it could be explained away from this recently updated page about the score that I honestly thought the new posts here were about: The Bourne Identity - Project Details Next to the cue list (and scrolling below the film credits) is a breakdown of both official albums, designating which cues each track contain. And sure enough: a few of the key suspects are listed as proper alts (though I kind of would've figured Got Any ID was more a demo than an alt, given the extra synth that isn't in the film + the strings at the end being different). Since the guy in charge of the website is very active, I'll go ahead and ask about some of the oddities from the details we have (like what they could've possibly assembled Bourne Remembers from if it was edited together, and the alleged Supremacy demo slip up that might not be based on the information above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,308 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: It would make sense if she is part of the producing team. Is she? btw harassment doesnt kind of imply agressive behaviour? It could have been the most polite message ever….it would be just a small ‘bother’ I take issue with reaching out to her because she never chose to be involved in this product. She just happens to be a composer's spouse. I would classify reaching out to such parties as harassing them. Koray Savas, JTN and Bofur01 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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