King Mark 3,631 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 For me there's a few I find annoying . Sometimes it "works" but I'd rather hear the same tracks without them. 1-Saxophone (often used for a "jazzy" flavor but I tend not to like it and no Saxophone dominant tracks are in my favorites) 2-Accordion (please ban this instrument) 3-Harpsicord (I dunno, sounds kind of annoying and cheap...one of the reasons some of Williams 70's pre- Star Wars scores don't sound as good as they should) 4-Accoustic Guitar (Should remain in pop music and songs) 5-Harmonica (irritating sound) 6-Synthesisers (especially Goldsmith's Drum Machine) I might have forgotten a few. Added to original list: -Banjo. Tom, michael_grig and 1977 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Solo violin or solo cello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said: Solo violin or solo cello. I don't like Solo Cello in most cases either. Croaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,347 Posted May 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2022 None, its all about context, techniques, and recording mixing. ConorPower, j39m, Cameron007 and 17 others 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 I agree with numbers 5 and 6. The first four are just fine, many times even beautiful. My own choice would be pan flute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bryant Burnette 654 Posted May 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2022 It's all about how the instrument is used; I don't have anything on a do-not-fly list. But if the music is bad, I don't want to hear any of them. Cameron007, Drawgoon and Miguel Andrade 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,501 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Counterparts said: None, its all about context, techniques, and recording mixing. This. Although in the last 15 years or so, I've veered more and more away from busy, brass- and percussion-heavy symphonic action scores and more into alternative, calmer, non-orchestral things. But that's more about idioms than instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,474 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 electric guitar But I agree, it really depends on context and use. For example, I don't find the Saxophones in Strauss' Sinfonia Domestica disturbing. But in some French classical music they may be quite prominent and have something vulgar to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,365 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Interesting, that this topic is placed in the John Williams thread and not under General Discussion. So, probably this is supposed to be related to John Williams' music, where I have absolutely no complaint about usage of instruments. Yes, I don't like Training Montage from Spacecamp and mostly David Foster produced 80s pop music in american movies. But I have no issue with the usage of unusual or simply non classical instruments. What I rather dislike, especially in modern scores, is the balance between instruments. So even if an orchestra is used, it is rather a background noise. Mostly you have an electronic techno-like driven frame, where orchestral parts are included somewhere behind that. That aplies to Hans Zimmer and colleagues, but also James Newton Howard or Thomas Newman, when they are more action oriented. Very often you have either this techno including orchestral falvours or some kind of small ensemble chamber music like music with one dominant solo instrument supported by string section, woodwinds and very little brass but hardly any well balanced full orchestra scores. And don't get me started about what happens in the music. Of course there are some exceptions. John Williams is one of them. He and some others manage to stick to a more or less natural orchestral sound. But that seems to be completely out of fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: Yes, I don't like Training Montage from Spacecamp and mostly David Foster produced 80s pop music in american movies. I like Foster's Winter Games for Calgary '88. 11 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: And don't get me started about what happens in the music. Go for it! GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,474 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 The electric guitar at 3:18. Bellosh and GerateWohl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 5 hours ago, King Mark said: 3-electric Harpsicord (sometimes) 6-Synthesisers (especially Goldsmith's Drum Machine) This. Everything that sounds too artificial. Prefer the natural sound of an orchestra. I like some of his electric harpsichord scores though, especially Eiger Sanction and Monsignor. 5 hours ago, King Mark said: 4-Accoustic Guitar (Should remain in pop music and songs) What about classical guitar, e.g. the river or eiger sanction? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,365 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 30 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I like Foster's Winter Games for Calgary '88. Somehow I always hear Peter Cetera's singing voice in my head when I hear such music. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Ooh, good topic. I generally (always exceptions of course) don't like the heavy use of saxophones, and I agree with KM that the harpsichord really dates some of JW's earlier 'modern' work. 'Synthesizers' is a bit broad and definitely depends on the application. I like electronic soundscapes/pads/percussion, etc in the use of modern scores. Their use in older scores from the 70s/80s I think works less as the tend to date the cue more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Thinking of it within the context of Williams' orchestration, sometimes the use of glockenspiel and xylophone can sometimes be annoyingly bright within very dark pieces: I'm thinking for instance of some of the Mustafar pieces from Revenge of the Sith. You'll get this oppresively dark music, interspersed with these odd twinkles. Its part of the way Williams evokes a "mechanical" sound of grinding gears, but in these cases... Brundlefly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 All is fair game, better than artistic (or indeed personal) standstill where everything has the same pasty Hollywood sound. That being said, the Kenny Loggins alto sax is hopeless, in and outside of film music. I think Dave Brubeck may have found a setting once where it was acceptable, but i'm not really sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,365 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, publicist said: That being said, the Kenny Loggins alto sax is hopeless, in and outside of film music. I think Dave Brubeck may have found a setting once where it was acceptable, but i'm not really sure. I guess, you were referring to Kenny G. and Not Kenny Loggins. Kenny L. was the Guy singing Footloose. 1 hour ago, publicist said: All is fair game, better than artistic (or indeed personal) standstill where everything has the same pasty Hollywood sound. I think, pasty Hollywood sound is such a wide area of possiblities that you can put a whole life of personal development into this. If you have the abbility and the skills and the talent. But it often nowadays with the modern tools you can create professional sounding music with every smartphone. So, musical skills are not that important anymore. But yes, some might create with their smartphone better and more interesting music than others utilizing a whole symphony orchestra. But that is then rather about spirit and talent and less about skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 You can create an effective score using a few synths (Social Network for example) but I see this thread as focusing on more orchestral based scores where unusual instruments are more conspicuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: You can create an effective score using a few synths (Social Network for example) but I see this thread as focusing on more orchestral based scores where unusual instruments are more conspicuous. Like Jurassic Park? On the subject of saxophones: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 35 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: I guess, you were referring to Kenny G. and Not Kenny Loggins. Kenny L. was the Guy singing Footloose. Both, actually, i was thinking of a KL cover version on Sax, but yes... Quote I think, pasty Hollywood sound is such a wide area of possiblities It really isn't, after many years of messageboard debates i can pinpoint exactly what it means, namely gold standard sound established in between Star Wars and Stargate, or better, ID4. Where harpsichords etc. are verboten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Everything can be used well and not so well. Depends on the project and the composer's abilities. I do always particularly enjoy non-standard instruments popping up. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 9 hours ago, King Mark said: I might have forgotten a few. Shawm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,365 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 minute ago, publicist said: It really isn't, after many years of messageboard debates i can pinpoint exactly what it means, namely gold standard sound established in between Star Wars and Stargate, or better, ID4. Where harpsichords etc. are verboten! OK. I am not up to your level of discussion. But if I see, how that sound has evolved between the 30s of past century until today under the hands of Max Steiner, Miklós Rózsa, Bernard Herrmann, Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams then I don't see just more of the same again and again, musically. But If I just break it down to the sound and don't look at the details of the music itself, which is actually a sign of the times, then I get your point and agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: OK. I am not up to your level of discussion. But if I see, how that sound has evolved between the 30s of past century until today under the hands of Max Steiner, Miklós Rózsa, Bernard Herrmann, Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams then I don't see just more of the same again and again, musically. Believe me, the beloved orchestral Hollywood sound from the 80's and 90's has very little to do with Rózsa et al., in the early 90's the template became so common it was referred to as a specific orchestrator trademark, where every big orchestral McNeely, Arnold, Newton Howard, Debney etc. suddenly appeared to have fingerprints and crossovers that certainly weren't stylistic choices of the composer, but because they all (to a degree) used the same orchestrators. This has little use in the discussion at hand, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 I adore orchestral saxophone 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 I'm not against it but I'm not a big fan of the xylophone hits doubled with flutes/piccolos in action cues that Williams likes to use so much. Chen G. and 1977 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Counterparts said: None, its all about context, techniques, and recording mixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said: I'm not against it but I'm not a big fan of the xylophone hits doubled with flutes/piccolos in action cues that Williams likes to use so much. Does that mean you don't like The Battle in the Snow?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 7 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said: It's all about how the instrument is used; I don't have anything on a do-not-fly list. But if the music is bad, I don't want to hear any of them. This. For every instrument mentioned in this thread, I can think of numerous passages that put it to wonderful use. There are plenty of contexts where a given instrument could sound out-of-place, and plenty of contexts where it's exactly the flavor that's needed. Bryant Burnette and Madmartigan JC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, Stu said: Does that mean you don't like The Battle in the Snow?! I meant more like these kind of passages I like everything else that's going on that moment, but the xylophone hits seem like filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Some of the flute pasages in JW's 70's suspense cues. Celesta suspense cues from late 2000's/early 2010's like KOTCS and Tintin That whirly bit in Whirl through Academe 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Strings, woodwinds and brass. We do not need real instruments, we have computers and hansu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 I don't like hearing HanZ in orchestral scores. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 Added Banjo. I don't like any of the tracks that use this instrument...Reivers,Missouri Breaks and the other Williams "country" scores 1977, Bespin, Disco Stu and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,687 Posted May 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2022 6 hours ago, Muad'Dib said: I'm not against it but I'm not a big fan of the xylophone hits doubled with flutes/piccolos in action cues that Williams likes to use so much. Williams waaaay overuses xylophone hits. I think they make a lot of his action not sound as menacing or serious as it could. Chen G., Muad'Dib, 1977 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Electric guitar. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Conductor's voice or humming sounds. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted May 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, King Mark said: Added Banjo. I don't like any of the tracks that use this instrument...Reivers,Missouri Breaks and the other Williams "country" scores Banjo is wonderful in Reivers, what are you talking about? In that time period and location. Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Disco Stu and Steve 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Williams waaaay overuses xylophone hits. I think they make a lot of his action not sound as menacing or serious as it could. It’s most out-of-place in those pieces where the musical texture is quite dark and serious, and all of a sudden that damn Xylophone comes in. Muad'Dib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: It’s most out-of-place in those pieces where the musical texture is quite dark and serious, and all of a sudden that damn Xylophone comes in. Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruckhorn 105 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 How about Horner’s reliance on that darn pan flute! A couple of times, okay, but he just kept jamming it down our ears. More than once, I turned off a CD thinking, “Dude, get a new favorite spice! Not everything sounds better with it.” Chen G. and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted May 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2022 I really dislike the traditional rock rhythm section in orchestral scores (drum kit, bass and guitar). It always sounds so cheesy to me. Murray Gold was a shocker at this with many of his Doctor Who episodes; wonderful scoring but brought down by a boring rock beat. Also I really don't like how many composers use the full chorus these days. This isn't so much a dislike of the sound, but just a recognition of when it's appropriate or not. Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? Yeah sure, I'll lap it up. But I saw the latest Spiderman movie and egads, that is not a film that needs an epic choir, certainly not for the scenes it was used in. You can always rely on Giacchino to turn things up to eleven when a nine or ten would've done fine; it only serves to diminish the effect - the same happened with his Jurassic World scores. He just gets a pass for the choir in the Vader hallway scene from Rogue One, purely because of Williams' work setting it up with the Anakin/Vader scenes from Revenge of the Sith. Fabulin, Andy and Edmilson 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyenaBoy 29 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said: You can always rely on Giacchino to turn things up to eleven when a nine or ten would've done fine; it only serves to diminish the effect - the same happened with his Jurassic World scores. I think he only used the chorus in a few tracks in JW:FK (those being "Go with the Pyroclastic Flow", "Thus Begins the Indo-Rapture", "Worlds Worst Bedtime Storyteller" and "Declaration of Indo-Pendance") and once in JW ("Our Rex is Bigger than Yours"). And I think they work quite well with their respective scenes. 12 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: I don't like hearing HanZ in orchestral scores. Hanz? Hans Zimmer? I think he made a few good scores, didn't he? 12 hours ago, Sergeant said: Strings, woodwinds and brass. We do not need real instruments, we have computers and hansu. Guessing this is meant to be sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Anything goes (except Vuvuzela) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Know 326 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Narration. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 7 hours ago, HyenaBoy said: Hanz? Hans Zimmer? I think he made a few good scores, didn't he? Did he? 7 hours ago, HyenaBoy said: Guessing this is meant to be sarcasm? We can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,654 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Obviously anything can work, given the scene/moment. However, I agree with King Mark that certain instruments have a tendency to diminish a score for me, and the harpsicord is one of those instruments. I struggle with Family Plot for just that reason. I don't like Bach pieces on it either, so it is not just Williams. I will add the piccolo and/or fife. I get the historical use for The Patriot, but they are still annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Love me some piccolos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyenaBoy 29 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Did he? Yep. I can name two examples: "The Lion King" and "Pirates of the Carribean" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,654 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Stu said: Love me some piccolos You're killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now