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THE BOYS & GEN V


Quintus

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I forgot about Butcher.  I was confused in the early episodes this season why we saw what looked like some kind of slug moving under his skin; That didn't really jive with what we learned last season, that he had a brain tumor.  So when this episode revealed he injected himself with V inbetween seasons, now its coming together, especially combined with the scene in this episode where he is about to be choked to death by the stretchy guy and then wakes up with that guy dead.  Clearly he does have a power, but isn't aware or in control of it (and blacks out when it is used).

 

I don't understand the point of the Hughie's parents stuff yet though.

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The Boys 4x05 Beware the Jabberwock, My Son

 

Wow, that was a big improvement on the first half of the season, largely because the plot is FINALLY starting to actually move forward instead of constantly dwelling on the character's pasts.  That was still here, though we're starting to get resolutions to some of it - Frenchie turned himself in, Hughie I guess just wanted to tell his dad he was his hero, and has a new relationship with his mom.  We've still got Kimiko's showdown with scarface and Starlight's showdown with Firecracker to come, but we're getting there.

 

Meanwhile, we're finally getting an idea where the season is heading by bringing the virus from Gen V into things.  So this is something Butcher told his CIA buddy about, and now they think they can make more with Sameer.  I wonder if any main characters will die from the virus before the end of the season..... I had completely forgotten that Stan Edgar was in jail, and I was so happy they didn't put him in the trailers so it was a total surprise to see him in the episode.   He didn't really end up influencing much of what happened in this episode, but now that Neuman has him I hope he gets up to something cool in the final episdoes of the season.

 

Both the Vought-con and the farmhouse were funny sequences.  I loved all the MCU jokes at Vought-con and the crazy animals at the farm; The flying sheep were especially fun.  The darkest part of the episode was certainly Ashley framing Cameron Coleman for the leaking of the footage, and Homelander using that to unite the new Seven together as "wrathful gods" to murder him.  Hopefully this means we'll get some exciting stuff in the last 3 episodes!

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At least it moved the plot forward instead of mostly being about the character's pasts

 

And this show has always been as much of a comedy as a drama, so I don't mind the tonal shifts

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Episode 6 x Dirty Business

 

I'm at a point now where I feel that the weird and gross stuff is just that. It has no meaning anymore. Nothing that happened this episode in the basement in my opinion had anything to do with the story.

 

It kinda pushed Hughie over the edge, but it's just weird.

Did not like it at all. This show has been stellar for 3 seasons, but I'm not really feeling Season 4. Last weeks episode was good, but I'm disappointed now again.

Let's see what the final 2 episodes have to offer.

 

Glad to have the confirmation that Joe Kessler is indeed inside Butcher's head though.

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That was just gross. After a brief reprieve with Frenchie's fling, which apparently wrecked the only relationship I liked on the show with Kimiko (did they just write him off?), the show went back to portraying gay or bi men as bizarre sex perverts for shock value. Eh.

 

This season is definitely a letdown. The political stuff has become too on-the-nose and not clever at all, the interpersonal stuff is fleeting and everyone just seems miserable. There are occasional glimmers like Homelander having his "I Pardon You" moment with the kid in the last episode and Butch sass and one-liners between his coughing puking descent into madness, but it's clearly the weakest season and the only one that I am not especially entertained by.

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The Boys 4x06 Dirty Business

 

Hmm, about the only interesting plot advancement in this episode is that the only way to make the virus strong enough to kill Homelander also turns it airborne and would kill every Supe on the planet.  Since we know that's not gonna happen, I wonder if any Supes will die at all before Sameer is killed and no one knows how to make the virus do that.  Not much to say about Frenchie being absent and not wanting to see Kimiko, nor MM having a heart attack.  The fact that the Jeffrey Dean Morgan character was imaginary was a nice development I suppose, but it's not like it really matters all that much does it?  I'm glad A-Train is still helping out The Boys, but the way they lingered so long on that kid noticing him at the hospital makes me think he'll probably get found out next episode.  All the stuff at Tek Night's mansion was just OK.  The reveal that the Homelander's master plan (or Sage's, I guess?0 includes having internment camps is kind of interesting, and I'm mildly curious to see how long she'll remain dumn before her bullet wound heals (I got the impression that stabbing herself in the eye for bad tv and sex with The Deep didn't last very long).  The stuff in Tek Night's sex dungeon was kinda funny, kinda gross; it was definitely elevated by Ashley being there.  She's been great comic relief lately.  Overall seemed like a treading water episode mostly.  Hopefully next week has more action and comedy

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Yes, was confused by the need to hire someone like JD Morgan to stand about and act all official - it does make sense that he is Butcher's Tyler Durden (or is it the other way around?) Making Urban the Brad Pitt to JDM's Norton blurs the boundaries in an interesting way. The Homelander stuff is all very appropriate and reflective of the moment - all existential crisis, and the best type of media comments on that in a way that engages audiences. I think the show has got noticably angrier which is why the flippant comedy is often missing. But there is an urgency to what it is chronicling and something like Tek Knight and Vaughn Camps are not far from Project 2025 at this point.

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My problem with the season is the lack of urgency!  Most of the first half was spent dwelling on the character's pasts, mostly re-treading ground that had already been trod (especially with Frenchie).  It took them until episode 5 to actually pursue the Supe-killing virus, which they knew about since before the season started!

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Sure, a lack of urgency and a general aimlessness, but the next season will be the last, so there is a lot of setting up the (set)pieces.

 

But I would also suggest this season of the show is particularly important as it focuses on capturing in particular how media manipulation normalises fascism with the explicit focus on Firecracker etc. It's setting up the stakes beyond showing a nutty leader as an existential threat into a much more ambitious attempt to reveal how fascist ideology embeds itself into the public (see Homeland Jr)

 

I guess the other parts are a bit lacking, I mean, the dodgy CGI flying lambs are not impressive, but how good is Simon Pegg's acting in that short bit? Reminded me of Shaun of the Dead. 

 

Still one of the most impressive shows on TV, perhaps creaking at the edges, but for a very fucking good reason, as Butcher would say.

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Yes the social commentary is well-done and hopefully makes people realize stuff about the media they consume, and who is trying to manipulate it that way and why

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The Boys 4x07 The Insider

 

Woof, that wasn't very compelling, was it?  At this point, it's hard to imagine next week's season finale being so good that it makes up for this quite lackluster season so far....

 

One of the biggest problems with the season is Sister Sage.  She's supposed to be the smartest person ever, but through 7 episodes I have not seen any evidence of that at all!  Is the plan any deeper than just killing the president, making Neuman become the new President, then putting anyone opposed to Supe authority in internment camps?  Where is the detail and nuance of how to enact that that only a being of supreme intelligence could figure out?  I don't even know if I believe her that she knew A-Train was the mole all along, or if she was just covering her ass.  Impossible to say!  Unless next week really shows that the writer's set up something that ties everything together right under our eyes, or reveals she was a fraud the whole time and has no big smart plan, it's going to be incredibly disappointing.  At least she brought some comedy - it was genuinely funny this week when it was revealed she was sleeping with Black Noir as well, and that she didn't have to lobotomize herself when with him :lol:

 

At least Frenchie's back, and A-Train seems to have fully turned; The big Supe fight in the flatiron was decent enough.  I also think its WAY too late in the show and season to introduce this shape-shifter character.  In the way it was presented, where she no only looks exactly like them, but also gets their voice and their memories, she'd basically be one of the most powerful people there is, able to do many, many powerful things for either side.  It seems weird at this point that she's supposedly involved in both the killing the president plot and has kidnapped Annie right after Homelander sent Black Noir and the Deep to kill her along with the rest of The Boys; Does that mean Homelander doesn't know she's part of Sage's plan?  Is Sage's plan to make it look like Annie is the one who killed the president?  Sadly, I don't even care!  I'll basically watch next week because I've already seen 7/8ths of the season but damn, I'm not expecting much.

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Yeah, this season feels very messy. For every compelling idea there's another one that doesn't work. Maybe it's me but I feel some of the tonal shifts are particularly jarring and the excessive moments feel very drawn out for no reason whatsoever. All of which undercuts any tension or drama elsewhere.

 

Karol

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It's not you, the tone is all over the place. I wonder if Kripke was distracted by some other projects he's working on or something.

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So this is funny.  I listen to a bunch of tv recaps from the Bald Move network, and The Boys is one of the shows they cover, typically at the usual pace of one podcast episode per tv episode.  Well due to scheduling conflicts this summer, they had to do one podcast episode that covered the first 3 episodes of the season, and then were going to do a second episode that covered episodes 4-6 this week.  So as I was leaving work Wednesday I saw that that episode had dropped, but noticed the title was "series wrapup" and was only 35 minutes long.  So I started listening on my ride home, and after about 20 minutes of beginning to the discuss the episodes, they sort of just organically came to the conclusion that the show just wasn't good enough to warrant covering any more (and they weren't enjoying watching it any more), so they decided to end the podcast :lol:

 

This is only the second time they've ever done this in all ~15 years they've been covering shows (the other time was The Walking Dead). 

 

Anyways, that's pretty damning when people whose job it was to cover the show don't even want to do it any more.  I wonder if the ratings have declined as much as the reviews

 

 

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Yes, it's such a shame. Season 1 - 3 for me were spectacular. It was sooo different from everything else. Had fantastic commentary on both the world and the movie business. The shock value was earned and all the characters were interesting to watch.

 

This season hasn't been able to do any of that in a satisfying manner. I feel the creators either didn't have enough time, or they think they are smarter than they actually are.

Jay has mentioned it a couple times, but if you're going to write the smartest person on earth, make it clever. Nothing about Sage has been special enough I feel. Half of our original characters are suddenly a shell of what they used to be and there's very little that makes sense for me.

 

I'm always one of the last people to say something isn't working or that it's not as good as it was, because I always look for the positives and I'm quickly enternained. But the biggest take for me when a series goes off the rails, is that it's not appointment television anymore. I'm not in a rush to see The Boys as soon as it releases. It's almost becoming a chore.

Put that next to House Of The Dragon for example, which I need to see when it releases.

 

Maybe the final episode will make a lot of things make sense or whatever, but it's a real shame.

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Oh yes, I'm very much looking to be able to watch the next 4 episodes of HOTD live on Sunday nights, should be great.

 

I am very happy that I decided randomly to make this season of The Boys a show I watch while working out, so I don't feel like I've wasted any time on it as I was accomplishing something else the entire time I was also watching it.  So I'll watch the finale Thursday morning due to keeping a morning workout schedule but yea, we'll see if I bother with season 5 or not in 2 years.  I don't even know if I want to bother with Gen V season 2 next year any more either.

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This week's episode was better, but still not great. At least it had a Kimiko/Frenchie scene or two, which I never expected.

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I have started checking out the comic and decided to rewatch Episode 1 of the show for comparison. I liked it a lot less on a rewatch

The comic has many, many issues, but I find Hughie a lot more interesting and believable as a person and the introduction scene with him and Butcher was handled far better. Kind of wish we had gotten the Scottish conspiracy nut as our main character now

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Did somebody ever figure out the chronological order and episode breakdowns of the soundtracks of The Boys? The only one I have done this way is Season 3 and Gen V. 

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The Boys 4x08 Assassination Run

 

Well, that was definitely not a finale that saved the entire season and turned it from bad to good.  However, I will say the second half of the season did end up being A LOT better than the first half.  The problem is, it wasn't as good as Gen V season 1, and neither of those seasons are better than the first 3 seasons of The Boys, so what are we even doing here?  If they don't drastically improve the writing for the final season, it's going to make the whole show feel like it was never worth watching in the first place.

 

The biggest fail of the season was Sage.  Her character ended up being utterly and completely pointless.  Her plans were so incredibly simple, there was no reason to introduce her character to have them; Homelander himself could have come up with a plan to work with Neuman to kill Singer and make her the president and push a pro-supe-authority agenda.  What's worse is that I never, ever saw evidence that she actually WAS super smart at all;  In the last episode she took credit for knowing A-Train was the mole all the time, but did she know?  In this episode, she says it was her plan all along for Singer being arrested and Neuman being the one killed, so that Calhoun can become president, but was it?  It seemed like she was simply taking credit for what happened after the fact, again.  Pointless!  The only thing she brought to the season was some comedy and that's it.

 

Overall it really seems like Kripke only had a small overall plot for this season, that warranted about 4 episodes worth to tell, so he strettttttched things out with all this characters-dealing-with-their-pasts issues in the first half of the season.  None of that stuff really paid of in any way in the second half, except for maybe Hughie's continued growth (he actually has a decent arc over the show).  There was no final showdown with Annie and Firecracker, Frenchie just disappeared and came back with no change, Kimiko never faced that scarface lady again, etc etc.  Pointless stuff.

 

Firecracker is a slightly better add to the cast than Sage, and she at least had interesting political aspects that tied into how Homelander is able to take over the government at the end.  But honestly, all of that was so undercooked, the show should have spent way more time in those early episodes explaining this plan, and showing more how the general public was feeling about the government before their takeover, and how Firecracker was playing into it all.  There was some of that, but not enough.

 

Butcher was also botched this season.  In the first 2 seasons, he wants to kill all supes.  In the 3rd season, he struggles with taking Temp V because it would temporarily turn him into what he wants to destroy.  Then he takes too much and finds out he is going to die.  The writers resolve that by having him take permanent V off-screen in between seasons, which... causes him to see Becca and Kessler as halucinations? And puke sometimes?  And have tentacles come out of his body that he can control with his mind?  Is he actually dying or not?  Was the hallucinations caused by the V or is he just mentally unstable now?  I don't know, and do I care?  The season ends with him driving away in a car by himself with one vial of the virus like that was supposed to be some kind of big season-ending moment.  Is it?  Why?  Is the intent that he will try to find a new scientist that will turn that one vial into the airborne "kill every super on the planet" variety?

 

I was mostly bored by the Ryan scenes all season long too.  He just kept flip-flopping between liking Homelander and no liking Homelander and that was it.  There's a way to tell that kind of story effectively, but this wasn't it.  The only thing I can think of that they'll do with him is late next season have the virus not work, and Ryan has to be the one to kill Homelander?  Meh.

 

The shapeshifter was also a huge disappointment.  What is the point of having a character like this if you don't do something FUN with it?  Sure, it was briefly fun that she impersonated Annie and got him to propose to her (after raping him 20 times, sheesh), but they could have done sooooo much more than that.  I couldn't believe they killed her off. So much potential wasted while many other less-interesting characters linger around.

 

I also never really bought why The Deep and Black Noir II continue to murder whoever Homelander wants them to.  They both voice objections, but then just keep doing it anyway.  Ashley surviving by injecting herself with V was a little funny, but mostly just head-scratching.  Maybe I'm not remembering the lore well, but I thought it was established that all he original supes were created by injecting pregnent moms with V, and they would birth supe offspring.  Since then we've had adults like Butcher, Hughie's dad, and now Ashley injecting themselves and just getting powers with no consequences?  (Well, Hughie's dad died, but that seemed to be from the brain injury he had prior to taking it more than the fact that he took it).  If this works, why are there still so few supes in the world?  Then again maybe next season they will have hundreds of new supes in the government or something.  I dunno.

 

Homelander was off all season as well.  In the early seasons, he was such a great villain, he felt like an unstoppable, unpredictable force.  The only thing that ever seemed to keep him in line was Stan Edgar, and they never explained why Homelander feared him.  Speaking of that, Esposito returning for that one episode this season was so pointless.  I get that he's such a busy guy he probably only could commit to a few days of shooting, but it would been smarter to write a bunch of scenes that could be pepper throughout the season that actually had him involved in the main story line instead of this forgettable one-episode adventure.  If they don't do something MAJOR with his character next season, I will wonder why they cast Esposito in the role at all!  Anyways, all Homelander did this season was revisit his past... again, talk to himself in the mirror, again, and kill a couple people for no reason.  He wasn't even really dong much to make the government takeover happen.  Singer wanting Neuman dead, him saing that on camera, and Butcher deciding to kill Neuman is what really led to that.  if they don't make him fearful again in the final season, it will be a waste of everyone's talents.

 

And where was A-Train this entire episode?  At least the joke about writing off his movie instead of releasing it was kinda funny.

 

Soldier Boy at the end, OK, so all that really is now the bad guys have the weapon that can take supes powers away, so The Boys will have one more thing to worry about when they eventually regroup and save the day.  Speaking of their separation, it was a little fun to see Sam and Cate from Gen V capture Frenchie and Kimiko, Cindy from season 2 capture Hughie, and Love Sausage capture MM, but it was kind of too little, too late.  At least Annie can fly now.

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Apparently, due to a thing that happened that is forbidden to be discussed here, Amazon changed the name of episode 8 to literally the most boring name an episode can have :lol:

 

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So does anybody else on JWFan have thoughts on the season finale?

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I thought it was okay. Like you said, not enough to change how I feel about the entire season.

 

It didn't make any sense to me to kill of Neuman, she was a very interesting character I thought. And unlike the rest of the internet I'm not a fan of Sage. Don't get all the hype.

 

The Deep is a character which isn't really needed anymore because he adds nothing to it. His best moments this season were his scenes with the octopus, and that was mostly due to Tilda Swinton.

 

As I have said before, I feel like a lot of the characters were only a shell of themselves from the previous 3 seasons. Frenchie's storyline to me was the most boring and unnecessary stuff the show has ever done. Kimiko finally talks, but didn't have much else to do. Hughie I thought had the most emotional arc and therefor I quite liked that. Annie is all over the place. Butcher is off, but I can't put my finger on why that is.

And like you said, Homelander doesn't seem as scary as he was in earlier seasons. He just seems incompetent, because most of the stuff this season happened to him, and not because he did it himself. Could it be that Homelander with more power is less interesting? I always loved how normal humans could kinda control him, but that seems over now.

 

Final thing I really hated was Ryan killing Mallory. Awful choice and only made me hate his character, and also didn't make me like Butcher anymore.

 

I really feel the that the show overall has forgotten the balance between the story & character and the gore & shock value. This season had too much of the latter, but because the former wasn't done right the latter didn't have an impact and just seemed gross, awful and not needed anymore.

 

Seasons 1-3 were incredible, so I'm feeling sad that 4 was in my opinion just not it. I'm hoping Gen V & Season 5 are able to turn it around.

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Well said.  Yeah The Deep and Tilda Swinton scenes were all funny, but also what was the point of them?  They didn't do anything to inform The Deep's character at all.  He started the season an asshole willing to murder whoever tells him to, and ends the season exactly the same as that.  Maybe his redemption will come next season.

 

I am so confused about Neuman.  In the prior seasons she was just a head-popper.  This season they invented that she's completely invulnerable too, between the acid and the other stuff they tried to do to her early in the season, and Homelander's eye beams doing nothing to her in this episode to reinforce that.  But then Butcher's tentacles can just rip her apart?  Why?

 

The biggest mistep of the whole show is still sidelining Stan Edgar.  In the early seasons, he was set up as the only person who can get Homelander in line.  They never explained why, and now his character has nothing to do with the show any more.  I don't get that either.

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Maybe it's because in parallel I watched dumb trash like The Acolyte. But compared to that The Boys Season 4 was gold. I liked the characters development and the political allegories. One of the strongest parts was Homelander's visit at his old laboratory. Yes, frenchie's ark was weak, but compared to Sol's or the twins' in The Acolyte pure poetry.

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I think I missed what a lot of people thought was great about Homelander's scene in the lab.  What made it great for you, and how was it different from the prior season where he returned to the lab?

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On 20/07/2024 at 5:22 AM, GerateWohl said:

Maybe it's because in parallel I watched dumb trash like The Acolyte. But compared to that The Boys Season 4 was gold. I liked the characters development and the political allegories. One of the strongest parts was Homelander's visit at his old laboratory. Yes, frenchie's ark was weak, but compared to Sol's or the twins' in The Acolyte pure poetry.

 

I was also watching both but The Acolyte did not make me look favourably at this at all

 

Even worse, I was reading and as of yesterday just finished all of the original The Boys comics and man...

 

All of it and that ending especially are going to stick with me in a way the ending of this adaptation almost certainly won't

 

Every character except for Homelander is less realised, Butcher and Hughie probably being the biggest crimes

 

What I'm missing more than anything is a clear purpose and focus for these characters in a way where every scene is advancing them in some way to an inevitable destination. An adaptation should have no excuse because they have full hindsight on the story they're adapting, and yet this show consistently invents weak material to waste your time with what amounts to nothing in the end

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All this season really had going for it were some fleeting Homelander and Butch moments, a brief abandoned A-Train subplot and the scenes with Frenchie and Kimiko that didn't involve his boyfriend. It was painfully obvious in their last romantic scene what they were doing. The writers know the audience wants them together and the gay interlude was just an obstacle nobody asked for.  It's a romance that doesn't need to be earned at this point, but the writing was so poor this season I'm not surprised that was their angle. Who the hell cares about Hughie and Starlight now despite the absurd amount of focus they were given? There's is the only relationship to ship at this point.

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20 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Even worse, I was reading and as of yesterday just finished all of the original The Boys comics and man...

 

All of it and that ending especially are going to stick with me in a way the ending of this adaptation almost certainly won't

 

I never read the comic book The Boys (honestly, not my style nor what I look for when I want a superhero comic), but before season 4 of the Amazon show there was almost this consensus on the internet that the show improved upon the comic. There was even this YouTube video from a couple years ago that went viral:

 

 

But now since season 4 was so controversial it seems that the internet is slowly changing its mind towards the source material. Again, I haven't read it but it's nice to see a comic book being rediscovered due to its adaptation (the MCU did nothing for Marvel Comics).

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34 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

the MCU did nothing for Marvel Comics

 

Is that true?

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9 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I never read the comic book The Boys (honestly, not my style nor what I look for when I want a superhero comic), but before season 4 of the Amazon show there was almost this consensus on the internet that the show improved upon the comic. There was even this YouTube video from a couple years ago that went viral:

 

 

But now since season 4 was so controversial it seems that the internet is slowly changing its mind towards the source material. Again, I haven't read it but it's nice to see a comic book being rediscovered due to its adaptation (the MCU did nothing for Marvel Comics).


I haven't seen the video directly but given how it was being talked about and the sort of people talking about it, I highly suspect a good chunk of those 'the show is better than the comics' people are unable to look past the slurs being used and write the entire thing off as 'edgy outdated trash'

Which is hilarious, given the comic calls this hypocritical behavior out directly by having Hughie constantly having a go at Butcher in particular for using slurs and yet in situations where Hughie has to be around those groups of people he's on edge whereas Butcher is comfortable as fuck, making the very valid point that your actions speak louder than your words

It's the most surface-level reading of the comic to focus on that because you end up ignoring the intricate political conspiracy thriller and deep thoughtful characterization because you got filtered by being offended at it. I fully grant this video could be more substantive critique but that is a prevailing trend I saw

It's really shitty, because it creates this repellent reputation that I initially bought into and also wrote it off as 'edgy outdated trash' but there's about a million times more nuance and empathy in these comics than in the show, especially when it comes to sexual assault of women and men, which is hideously ironic for a piece of media that came out in the mid 2000s to have a more sophisticated take than one that came out in the late 2010s. Progress my ass.

EDIT: I happened to stumble across this video which echoes some of my sentiments here in that it is a loose response to the video you linked. Sounds like that video is horrifically misrepresentative of the source material so given its popularity it seems like people have been fed straight up lies about it. The video below does a great job letting the comic speak for itself in tearing those lazy uninformed criticisms to pieces (HUGE SPOILERS FOR THE COMIC): 

 

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9 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

 

 

 

Hard to tell but it sounds like this won't be covering Vought's start as a weapons supplier in wars? I'd be interested if it was

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  • 1 month later...

These guys are creeps.

 

Around this corner of the world it wasn't unusual for the actresses who played the villains in our novelas to be harassed and sometimes even assaulted on the street by old ladies furious with the things their characters did on TV :lol:

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What a letdown the last season was. So obsessed with political commentary that they forgot about the characters, then they remembered them, then it ended.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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