Yavar Moradi 2,597 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 I knew! But maybe it wasn’t widely discussed? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Man! I've never seen a score so thoroughly disected- before it even gets listened to!😄 Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Anybody know what the main theme is doing on the 1992 CD called "Gentle Rocks" by "Incantation"? https://music.apple.com/us/album/on-gentle-rocks/308341383 (Listen to the sample of track 7 "Find The Child") Another sample here: https://www.cancioneros.com/lyrics/disc/610009/on-gentle-rocks-incantation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Incantation was a group including frequent Horner collaborator Tony Hinnigan. http://www.tonyhinnigan.com/incantation.php http://tonyhinnigan.com/movies.php#movies Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 I guess the inside of the CD booklet would have credited Horner as composer then That's one of the issues with the digital/streaming era, all those details have nowhere to be presented! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jay said: I guess the inside of the CD booklet would have credited Horner as composer then That's one of the issues with the digital/streaming era, all those details have nowhere to be presented! Yup. CDs forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted June 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2022 He was credited, at least according to somebody here. http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/omni-publishings-stunning-release-of-horners-willow/ I like this story from that Hinnigan guy’s website! Quote James Horner had heard the score for "The Mission" and asked Mike Taylor and myself to play on "Willow", which had, at the time, the biggest ever music budget for a movie. On the first morning we began with a cue containing a nightmare solo in the heinous key of B Major. (For the uninitiated, that means a rather uncomfortable number of sharps). We only had one instrument between us on which it could be done - a somewhat dodgy cross-blown Bolivian flute. We tossed a coin for the dubious honour. Mike lost. The first run-through, predictably, didn't go that well. Audible sniggers were heard from members of the London Symphony Orchestra. James, to his eternal credit, tapped his baton on the stand and said "Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a 120-piece orchestra here, two choirs, Alpine horns, anvils etc., etc., and these chaps with numerous bits of stick, some of which have holes bored in them. I have written the cue in the wrong key and that's my fault. If anyone thinks they can play any of these instruments better, please step forward". You could've heard a pin drop. P.S. The rest of the sessions went fine(!). Edmilson, MikeH and Smeltington 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 yea that's a good story, I saw it when it was posted into the FSM thread for this release a couple days ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,597 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Another Incantation CD is the only way some of Horner’s rejected Young Guns score has been released to (and heard by) the public — almost 5 minutes of it and it’s pretty good stuff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Interesting! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,118 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 8 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: I suppose bavmordas slap is not on the level of arriving to daedalus… Are you kidding? My heart hurts for poor Kael. A Bavmorda slap is no ordinary bitch-slap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksparrow900 32 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 5 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said: I didn't want to go to bed without posting this first: 2:11-2:30 was cut in the film; that's what I'd found in the screenshot I posted above. I realize now that the screenshot didn't have enough contextual information to be useful; it's late for me and I haven't gone to bed yet. Really not the time for me to try to figure out a new film score. Again, I'm sorry for the confusion. At 3:40 it's missing the solo flute that can be heard in the film but not present on the album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 If this missing insert is confirmed, I can confirm you Intrada has a big big big QA problem... Glad I didn’t order it yet, this prove my new rule of waiting one month before ordering a new expansion is necessary. Chewy and Yavar Moradi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruckhorn 105 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 The available material may not include that insert. The full set of maters is missing and presumed lost to the ages. ThePenitentMan1 and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,096 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Ha. I'm sure in a few years Intrada will have unearthed the main recording sessions from Lucasfilm and then reissue with all the missing unreleased bits and cues and alternate takes as a 3CD Set with the OST. But right now this release is going to be epic!! We will have enough music to enjoy in the interim period. Andy and ThePenitentMan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,118 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 53 minutes ago, Bespin said: If this missing insert is confirmed, I can confirm you Intrada has a big big big QA problem... Glad I didn’t order it yet, this prove my new rule of waiting one month before ordering a new expansion is necessary. If they send out a replacement disc, then you have two copies. Isn’t that better for your collection? Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 9 hours ago, Andy said: Are you kidding? My heart hurts for poor Kael. A Bavmorda slap is no ordinary bitch-slap. He should have keep his wife's name out of his f****ng mouth! Amer, OneBuckFilms and Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 6 hours ago, Bespin said: If this missing insert is confirmed, I can confirm you Intrada has a big big big QA problem... Glad I didn’t order it yet, this prove my new rule of waiting one month before ordering a new expansion is necessary. Even without this specific issue of missing masters, it's not at all unusual for the masters and the film to differ in mixing, often considerably. And since when did everyone care about it matching the film anyway? I thought JWFan was a 'composer's intention' haven Also, if they'd had proper elements and done a 4-disc set with alternates and the original album, yet more complaints would arise that they'd overdone it and didn't need to provide an entire track for a 5 second insert.... Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 8 hours ago, Amer said: Ha. I'm sure in a few years Intrada will have unearthed the main recording sessions from Lucasfilm and then reissue with all the missinf unreleased bits and cues and alternate takes as a 3CD Set with the OST. It's a LOT of physical tape to go missing; they may yet turn up in deep storage somewhere. Although recorded on a long obsolete format, other Horner scores recorded in the same way have been recovered and restored (such as Glory). 2 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Even without this specific issue of missing masters, it's not at all unusual for the masters and the film to differ in mixing, often considerably. Exactly, and when recording with Tony Hinnigan and Incantation Horner would often record multiple takes with different approaches (often a necessity given the unpredictable nature of the instruments). It's not unusual to find a different version on the album versus the film. Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,000 Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 I am not massively bothered about minor differences like this. To be perfectly honest, I am still struggling to hear the difference between the two The Land Before Time opening tracks that caused such a stir not long ago. Sure, I do appreciate throughness of any assembly but as far as casual listening goes this is completely irrelevant. I am excited to hear the extra 35 minutes on this release. This is a huge title, this one. It has been a tough couple of years, let's try to focus on the positives. Karol Yavar Moradi, Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Jean-Baptiste Martin and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I don't know why, I assumed the program of the double CD would have been made of a "Score" portion and a bonus "Album" portion (like we are now used to get). Instead of this, I realize Intrada chose to go with a continuous "score/album" mixed program. As it has been said, a compromise was clearly made to avoid a 3rd CD. So this is not the Definitive Willow, but it's better than nothing I guess. Still I think Intrada could have had more balls. 1977, Richard Penna, DeltaPupJux and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Hard to imagine a 1988 movie from Lucasfilm would have truly lost the original elements. I'm sure they'll turn up. And if not, this release seems incredible as is. It's out for delivery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Bespin said: So this is not the Definitive Willow, but it's better than nothing. Intrada could have had more balls. JWFanners. Obsessively finding the negatives in everything since <insert year> Yavar Moradi and mahler3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Intrada lives because of ME. I send them big money each year, can I expect some quality? I think so. I think the right order to expand a score is to release first the "big thing" (3 or 4-CD), then when it's sold out, some years later you can reissue a 2-CD set removing the alt and bonus tracks. I think it's the correct way to do it, not the inverse. You know, everytime a label stretch the elastic, we see it. I have this message for the speciality labels: BEVARE! BEVAAAAARE! Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chewy 2,388 Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 But...what if the masters are truly lost? Intrada can't do much more. Brando, Richard Penna, OneBuckFilms and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenitentMan1 743 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Chewy said: But...what if the masters are truly lost? Intrada can't do much more. This. What makes me think even more that this is the case is the fact that they were so upfront about the missing material. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,096 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Bespin said: Intrada lives because of ME. I send them big money each year, can I expect some quality? I think so. I think the right order to expand a score is to release first the big thing (3 or 4-CD), then when it's sold out, some years later you can reissue a 2-CD set removing the alt and bonus tracks. I think it's the correct way to do it, not the inverse. You know, everytime a label stretch the elastic, we see it. I have this message to the speciality labels: BEEVARE! BEEVAAAAARE! Strangely, I agree. 'Like LLL did with the ST TMP 3CD Set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Amer and Brando 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Unless there are several significantly different and musically interesting alternates buried in some vaults, the 2-CD set will contain everything I need. I can't wait to listen to it! Edmilson and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 319 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Based on the state of currently available sources, this is as close to Definitive as we're likely to get. There is very little actually missing, and there is a LOT of material we did not have before. From the samples on the site, this is going to be a fantastic listen. Yavar Moradi and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 Looking at it closely.. this is a Williams styled expansion: most of the source music is absent. One uninteresting short cue ommited and album tracks retained by the composer's wish.... OneBuckFilms, bruce marshall and Yavar Moradi 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 319 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: Looking at it closely.. this is a Williams styled expansion: most of the source music is absent. One uninteresting short cue ommited and album tracks retained by the composer's wish.... Somewhat. Since the original master tapes are lost, the album tracks used seem to be the only good source left to use. It's a shame about the master tapes, especially for a film and score like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 5 hours ago, crocodile said: I am not massively bothered about minor differences like this. To be perfectly honest, I am still struggling to hear the difference between the two The Land Before Time opening tracks that caused such a stir not long ago. Sure, I do appreciate throughness of any assembly but as far as casual listening goes this is completely irrelevant. I am excited to hear the extra 35 minutes on this release. This is a huge title, this one. It has been a tough couple of years, let's try to focus on the positives. Karol I was kidding when I said ya’ll would find something to complain about with this release, sweet jiminy christmas. crocodile and OneBuckFilms 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Richard Penna said: JWFanners. Obsessively finding the negatives in everything since <insert year> If I wrote that , Jay would have chastised me. Thanks!😄 Bellosh and mahler3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 19 hours ago, Andy said: Are you kidding? My heart hurts for poor Kael. A Bavmorda slap is no ordinary bitch-slap. I seem to remember it being more of a punch than a slap. Need to check the film out again sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 (TEMPORARILY OUT OF STOCK) We will post estimates of when this title will be back in stock as soon as we know! https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12619/.f They've also added the musician's link at that page WILLOW • MUSICIANS ROSTERLONDON SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA Engineer: Shawn Murphy 25-28 Jan, 2,3,5,6,9&12 Feb 1988 Abbey Road Studio 1 led by Ashley ArbuckleFIRST VIOLINArbuckle, AshleyBrightman, RobinBroadbent, Nigel ListerClark, RobertColter, SydneyFindlay, Gillian Anne HelenGaines, DennisGoodall, DavidHumphrey, MichaelMackenzie, James LennoxNixon, JoyceRenwick, Colin JohnRetallick, Robert HenryReuben, CyrilSnell, Dominie JulietSpencer, Michael JohnSECOND VIOLINArtis, SamuelBrown, William PatonCastle, Stanley Clarke, Norman JohnCreese, GeoffreyHill, Warwick CollenMcDonough, Ian RobertMorton, (Paul) TerencePollock, AndrewRowlinson, StephenSwift, ThomasThomas, M.Watson, Neil A.Williams, DavidVIOLABurns, DuffClarke, BrianForrester, J.Holttum, Richard JohnHooley, M.Hooley, PatrickHume, DavidMack, BrianMountfort, L.Norris, PeterO'Neill, CarolineSumpton, WilliamTaylor, AlexanderVermont, PatrickWelch, Jonathan C.CELLOAdams, RaymondBergin, Mary PatriciaBradshaw, NoelBrown, Jennifer MaryCole, JoanneCummings, DouglasGethin, Nicholas G. F.Jones, Hilary SusanLaw, KennethMcGrath, Roderick JohnSaunders, Francis PatrickTruelove, AmandaBASSCooper, JohnEyres, IanGriffiths, Arthur BHetherington, Simon EdwardHill, JohnLaurence, Patrick AynsleyMarrion, PaulMollison, BruceNewson, Gerald KeithWorters, Nicholas A. C.FLUTEEdmund-Davies, PaulNolan, Francis JosephParry, (Godfrey David) MartinOBOEBrowne, GeoffreyCarter, RoyLawley, John WilliamPendrill, Christine AnnCLARINETJowitt, RoyKelly, ThomasMarriner, Andrew S.Moore, RonaldStenhouse, JohnBASSOONBourton, Robert JohnFrancis, Peter JohnGatt, James MartinHunka, Michael NicholasFRENCH HORNBrown, JamesClarke, R.Haskins, William PaulLipton, JonathanReading, S.Seenan, HughTRUMPETHall, MalcolmMurphy, MauriceReynolds, GeorgeSmith, MalcolmTROMBONECrees, Eric JamesGroves, RogerHarvey, Peter BrianMathison, FrankWick, DenisWills, SimonTUBAHarrild, Patrick TerenceTIMPANIGoedicke, Kurt-HansPERCUSSIONAllen, E.Frye, MichaelNorthcott, Raymond StanleyNutty, KevinThomas, ChrisWardle, S.HARPEllis, OsianVaughan, Moira KarenPIANOElms, R.Leech, J.Noble, RobertRound, Michael Andy and Tom Guernsey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 It’s here! crumbs, OneBuckFilms, Amer and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Amer 2,096 Posted July 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2022 Thank my stars. I just got my shipping notice!!!! BrotherSound, Andy and mahler3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Drawgoon 100 Posted July 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2022 4 hours ago, BrotherSound said: It’s here! haha You current avatar, with that "peculiar" look on JW, kind of goes well with your post. It's almost like JW is looking at that artwork in complete disbelief (i.e. Dost mine eyes deceive me? Expanded Willow? It can't be real!) OneBuckFilms, BrotherSound and Jay 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruckhorn 105 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 5 hours ago, BrotherSound said: It’s here! And, your impressions? The liner notes: did they choose a good font, or is that another nit that some of us here will bitch about incessantly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,096 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 I thought that the full red artwork was going to be the front cover..but I still like this one from the original poster sheet. From the musician list : Legendary Maurice Murphy on the Trumpet. One of the great ace players from LSO. mahler3 and ricsim88 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 8 hours ago, BrotherSound said: It’s here! Nice worktop! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mahler3 478 Posted July 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2022 Here’s our very own @Jim Warewho joined me on the show last night. French horn player Hugh Seenan is also speaking with me about his work with James Horner (from Aliens to Braveheart). Lots of further Willow clips too! https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/d7vhqV4aB9RQQ9s79 Jay, Yavar Moradi, OneBuckFilms and 2 others 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 319 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 There are some amazing things in this. It's AMAZING to hear Horner talking with the orchestra on the Troy sessions. mahler3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 20 hours ago, bruckhorn said: And, your impressions? It’s a fantastic release! I’ve had the Omni Publications full score (sadly out-of-print now) for a long time and have been dying to follow along, which I can finally do. I personally would have moved the two source cues out of the “main program”, but that’s accomplished easily enough with a playlist. It’s worth the purchase for ‘The Slide Ride’ alone. ‘Death Dogs’ is another unreleased highlight. mahler3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,118 Posted July 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2022 I am ripping my CD now. The liner notes have a theme of how big and complex the orchestra is, and the variety of bizarre instruments. It's really a wonderful read, and in the context of today's modern scores with their programmed drum loops, you have to admire the ambition of Horner, who is both a genius and a hack at the same time. (Although I don't think Horner used a Nose Flute for Willow! Point for Holt.) My question... Since the liner notes made such special mention of the players in the orchestra, why are they not listed in the booklet? This is the LSO! Seems like it should be in the booklet. And why are all of the strange and unconventional instruments and players not listed on Intrada's online player listing? Smeltington, BrotherSound and Tom Guernsey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Andy said: My question... Since the liner notes made such special mention of the players in the orchestra, why are they not listed in the booklet? This is the LSO! Seems like it should be in the booklet. And why are all of the strange and unconventional instruments and players not listed on Intrada's online player listing? Is it not in the CD case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,438 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Andy said: you have to admire the ambition of Horner, who is both a genius and a hack at the same time Haha... I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,118 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Counterparts said: Is it not in the CD case? No. I was surprised it isn't. 2 hours ago, Smeltington said: Haha... I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on that. Well, I'm not really sure what's left to be said about Horner, and it's only my opinion, but he was a hack because of how shamelessly he borrowed from others and himself. (nothing new there). He was a genius because of how he made it not matter. He was so courageous with how he scored. He had a way of putting it out there and swinging for the fences, without shame, without restraint. And most of the time, it worked perfectly for the film, and the emotions of the listener. So while he drew his inspiration in ways that weren't original, he somehow created an original "Horner" sound. You know his scores when you hear them, and he really didn't seem to care if you noticed his cyclical quoting or not. Right up until the end, you could hear bits of Star Trek II in The Amazing Spider-Man. And we loved him anyways. The guy had balls, and talent, but I think he was able to craft a sound that resonated with most audiences. And that's why he was a genius. Because there are plenty of composers who use temp tracks, or quote ideas from others, but none of them come out as endearing and surprisingly emotive as Horner. I'm having a tough time articulating it, and that's precisely what I mean... He was able to reuse and recycle and yet come up with something indescribable, compelling, and often critic-proof. Is there a nuanced James Horner score? I don't really think so. Was Willow the only Lucasfilm project he ever scored? Ricard and Smeltington 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now