Jurassic Park 2-CD (La-La Land) - 5th Of July 2022

[Marian Schedenig 8,159]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

I was also assuming that. But when my old Cambridge Audio broke down and I decided to buy a new one, I learnt that some players, even "high-end" ones, don't offer gapless playback. Apparently, the requirements of the pop sector in the cyber space (made up of serial MP3 files) have lead to a decline of technical standards.

 

That doesn't make sense to me, because there are no gaps on a (properly produced) audio CD:

Quote

 

The audio data stream in an audio CD is continuous, but has three parts. The main portion, which is further divided into playable audio tracks, is the program area. This section is preceded by a lead-in track and followed by a lead-out track. The lead-in and lead-out tracks encode only silent audio, but all three sections contain subcode data streams.

The lead-in's subcode contains repeated copies of the disc's Table of Contents (TOC), which provides an index of the start positions of the tracks in the program area and lead-out. The track positions are referenced by absolute timecode, relative to the start of the program area, in MSF format: minutes, seconds, and fractional seconds called frames.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio

 

In other words, the audio part of a CDDA, once you resolve all the error correction and other physical encoding stuff, is comparable to a single, continuous 44.1 kHz 16 bit stereo WAV file (sans metadata). The TOC just contains indexes to where each track starts within that continuous stream. A proper player wouldn't "switch" from one track to the next when playing a full CD, it would just keep playing and change its display accordingly. As I understand it, if a player produces gaps in that context, either the CD or the player are seriously buggy or broken.

[blondheim 1,157]

I know, for example, my Xbox 360 puts a gap between every track when it plays CDs. I know that is not what it was known for still

[Brando 1,848]

1 hour ago, blondheim said:

 

Thanks! To clarifiy, is that from the opening of the cue until the helicopter lands or merely the section where the helicopter is actually descending and landing being different?

I’m going to compare the tracks in audacity later tonight, I can post screenshots of the sections to see the differences.

[BB-8 3,459]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

That doesn't make sense to me, because there are no gaps on a (properly produced) audio CD.

I was referring to "poorly designed playback systems":

 

"Even when the audio file itself does not contain undesirable gaps, software/firmware/hardware design often adds gaps during playback. In some cases, software closes and re-opens the output stream when switching tracks, causing the hardware to create a very short "click". This problem is solved in more sophisticated designs of gapless playback.

A different design problem relates to software/firmware/hardware which are not ready to seamlessly move to the next track by the time the current track is complete. In this scenario, the listener is left waiting in silence as the player locates the next file, reads it, decodes the first blocks if necessary and then starts loading the buffer for playback. The gap can be as much as half a second, or even more — very noticeable in "continuous" music such as certain classical or dance genres.

Many older audio players on personal computers do not implement the required buffering to play gapless audio. Some of these rely on third-party gapless audio plug-ins to buffer output. Some newer players and newer versions of old players now support gapless playback directly."

 

Source

https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Gapless_playback

[bollemanneke 3,334]

I have to say that this score never sounded good in its remastered version to me. There's something too... crisp about it. I like the details, but the orchestra sounds too shrill. Also, Journey to the Island, at around 2:53: TERRIBLE HORN FLUB! Is that what this new film version is about?

[Jay 37,268]

17 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Also, Journey to the Island, at around 2:53: TERRIBLE HORN FLUB! Is that what this new film version is about?

 

That is what is heard in the actual film itself, yes

[bollemanneke 3,334]

But... It's clearly a performance mistake that shouldn't have been in there. I don't think this should carry over to an album release.

[Jay 37,268]

Sure, so you can choose to swap in the album version for your personal playlist if you desire

[Brando 1,848]

5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

But... It's clearly a performance mistake that shouldn't have been in there. I don't think this should carry over to an album release.

It shouldn't have been selected for the film take, but thats what they chose. So now we have both versions. I like having what was used in the film and alternates if available. More music on the bonus playlist.

[Jay 37,268]

In the final film the flub can't really be heard under all the sound effects

[Marian Schedenig 8,159]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

"Even when the audio file itself does not contain undesirable gaps, software/firmware/hardware design often adds gaps during playback. […] Many older audio players on personal computers do not implement the required buffering to play gapless audio. Some of these rely on third-party gapless audio plug-ins to buffer output. Some newer players and newer versions of old players now support gapless playback directly."

 

Yes, that makes sense - for *software* players. I've been there myself. But a "traditional" hardware CD player would just play the one single audio stream on the CD, without "changing tracks" (unless you've programmed a different order), and would therefore have no need for buffering.

 

Unless it's in fact just a glorified mini computer with a CD drive that effectively just live-rips every track individually and then plays them back digitally as separate streams (in fact, in a way that's how I think a typical Blu-ray player works; from what I've seen in firmware upgrade screens, they're usually Linux based (and yet there's still no proper Blu-ray playback software for Linux…)). In that case, you'd be just as well (or in fact) better of with a computer and the CD ripped to files on a local or network drive. (Though if someone goes to the lengths of building something like this, neglecting to do the proper buffering for gapless playback seems even more of a blunder)

 

I'm not saying such players do not or cannot exist. I'm just saying that from what I understand, making something like this makes little sense, and I would expect them to be a very small minority of lousy products.

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

Honestly, I think I've decided I like the album transition between 3m2 and 3m2A better than the newly released film version. It doesn't make a huge difference to me either way. The film mix for Dennis Steals the Embryo though, that I love.

[Brando 1,848]

11 hours ago, blondheim said:

I know, for example, my Xbox 360 puts a gap between every track when it plays CDs. I know that is not what it was known for still

 

So, in the first screenshot, the top track is the film version, the bottom one if the alternate. The section where the helicopter is descending where people have noticed the different performances. Waveforms in certain areas look different. Also, another thing I noticed is the alternate track started a microsecond before the film version did, so I had to sync those up and even then, because of the take used in the film it throws everything else off sync. Screenshot 2 is the film version where the cue ends and Entrance To The Park begins. You can see the nice 1.5 second break before it begins, versus screenshot 3 where it begins almost immediately after the previous cue begins to end. I don't know what instrument it is, but in the 3rd screenshot, at the very start of the highlighted section is the final chiming we hear before the cue fades. The 2nd screenshot is that same section, except the final cue starts later as it does in the film, so you get a nice little break for the marching horns and drums kicks into gear. And, the film version appears exactly in the film as it does on this new album, with no edits. 

[Bespin 8,472]

Wave forms are so sexy.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

36 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Wave forms are so sexy.

To some people, yes, they are!

[Bespin 8,472]

Can we have an option to stop people from quoting me?

 

I would pay for that.

[Holko 9,491]

Dennis' album mix feels disjointed, separate left center right, when switching back and forth between the two, but the film mix feels like a unified stereo field!

 

Fadein from Entrance of Mr. Hammond is gone!

 

Overall I definitely like the sound - I always felt it was a little too bright, mostly around Incident then I got used to it, I had no such feelings with this version.

 

Unfortunately a glitch made it into both versionscof T-Rex Rescue, a loud pop in the left channel at 2:43. I had to patch it up with the section from the JP set version, thankfully it's in an easily editable spot.

 

Overall I decided I don't like the film Journey after all, the flubby rushed helicopter part and the march transition that completely misses the tempo are both for the worse. I shortened and lengthened a couple notes in the full album version instead - too bad there was still no space for fixing that sea to island "daaa dadadaaaaa" introductory motif's bad performance edit, its first note is brass-heavy and cut off early by the cymbal and all the rest of its notes and the one reprise too are string heavy.

[Cameron007 43]

Yeah I prefer the album version overall. It's a sharper performance and thus, more majestic.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

I heard that flub in Journey as soon as I heard the sample too - shame they used that take for the film, but I guess if it's buried under effects they perhaps weren't worried about it and had another reason to use that take.

 

Sometimes having an exact film version/taken is worth it and valuable for the listening experience, but for me, not in this case. The album version is beautifully performed.

 

I also had a few thoughts on where I feel the OST's problems lie.

 

The bits of the album that work very well for me as they are, are as follows. Tracks 1, 3 and 4 take us to the island, with Incident being a wonderful 'overture' to the dramatic side. Track 6 then takes us from the majesty to the mysterious side of the dinosaurs - Hatching Baby Raptor is a genius of a suite.

 

Tracks 8 - 12 then get us into the meat of the story, taking us through the night, ending with Tree which is almost sending you for a quick siesta before the final act. Then 14 and 15 give us our action packed send-off.

 

Sequence-wise, there's nothing inherently wrong with Theme From Jurassic Park. It's more that apart from the intro (which tbh, I've never liked that much) it's just duplicated music. It doesn't feel to me like it's adding anything to the album.

 

So thus far, you've got a solid album - could do with perhaps The Coming Storm and The History Lesson as additional tracks.

 

The problem for me is tracks 5, 7 and 13:

• The Raptor Attack is out of place as a 'deep end' introduction to the dinosaurs so early on. The story has not yet progessed to the chaos and danger.
• Jurassic Park Gate is far too upbeat, relaxed and 'chilled' for that place in the story where the tension and action are supposed to be ramping up.
• I still, still don't understand why JW put the lengthy, perfect send-off Welcome to... so early. It leaves less than ten minutes of playtime between the two island fanfare sections (and we only hear it once in the film) and means that when we come to the actual end of the album, we leap into the deep end, and get our third rendition.

 

So to reiterate and clarify, the suites are really good and work well. JW is excellent at combing music creatively, and the anniversary bonus tracks are inspired. My problem really just comes down to those three track placements, but the effect that they have for me is a net negative on the overall album.

[JohnnyD 1,220]

I listened to the entire set. This reissue blows the entire score as it was presented in the original 2016 box set out of the water, which is saying something since, at the time, everyone thought that was the definitive release, both in remastered sound and expanded cues. This is the best the entire score has ever sounded. No more fade-in at the beginning of Entrance of Mr. Hammond. Journey to the Island (Film Version) is absolutely perfect and I am glad it is in the main presentation (I have BOSE headphones AND a DTS: X / Dolby Atmos speaker system, and I hear no supposed horn flub; some people nitpick over the most minute and insignificant thing). I like the transitions between sections better than the album version, though I like the album version as well and it serves as a great alternate, almost like a concert version. Dennis Steals the Embryos (Film Version) is a revelation in that it sounds perfect and I picked up details in the orchestra I never heard before. Thank you to Maestro John Williams, Mike Matessino, @Jay and all involved in this release. *Chef’s Kiss*

 

I said it before, and I’ll say it again: if The Lost World gets a reissue, I’ll be pleasantly surprised. I seriously don’t know what could possibly be improved, but I felt a similar way when the reissue for Jurassic Park was first announced, so who knows.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

If they want to skip a TLW reissue and go straight to JP3.... I won't complain  

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Okay, I'm sorry, but it is literally impossible not to hear the horn flub. I never even knew that was what the film version was about and did a huge double take when hearing it for the first time yesterday. You cannot not hear this.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

12 hours ago, Holko said:

Fadein from Entrance of Mr. Hammond is gone!

Very nice!

 

12 hours ago, Holko said:

Unfortunately a glitch made it into both versionscof T-Rex Rescue, a loud pop in the left channel at 2:43. I had to patch it up with the section from the JP set version, thankfully it's in an easily editable spot.

Not so nice!

[JohnnyD 1,220]

 

12 hours ago, Holko said:

Unfortunately a glitch made it into both versionscof T-Rex Rescue, a loud pop in the left channel at 2:43. I had to patch it up with the section from the JP set version, thankfully it's in an easily editable spot.

 

That’s odd, but that is not the case in my copy. Glad it is a very minor thing that is fixable for you, though.

 

34 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Okay, I'm sorry, but it is literally impossible not to hear the horn flub. I never even knew that was what the film version was about and did a huge double take when hearing it for the first time yesterday. You cannot not hear this.

Sorry, but like I said, I don’t detect any flub. I think the whole reissue is perfect.

[Brando 1,848]

12 hours ago, Holko said:

 

Unfortunately a glitch made it into both versionscof T-Rex Rescue, a loud pop in the left channel at 2:43. I had to patch it up with the section from the JP set version, thankfully it's in an easily editable spot.

 

I hear it too. Not too bad, however, easy fix.

[scallenger 481]

I actually hear that on my end too. I wouldn't call it "loud" per say but definitely can be heard while wearing headphones. But I didn't notice this before while playing it through regular speakers.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

On 03/07/2022 at 9:43 PM, crumbs said:

 

Maybe the new release will have a Film Edit of that track, like the TLW LLL including a film edit of that finale. 

At what point in the track does the T-Rex rescue/ cue replacement occur?

 

Thanks!

 

 

My 'lp' program.

Culled from the MCA ost

 

1

3

8

6

13

2

11

5

15

16

 

TT 37 minutes

 

 

[Brando 1,848]

32 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

At what point in the track does the T-Rex rescue/ cue replacement occur?

 

Thanks!

 

 

My 'lp' program.

Culled from the MCA ost

 

1

3

8

6

13

2

11

5

15

16

 

TT 37 minutes

 

 

It replaces the climax of the carnivore motif. Are you asking for a specific timestamp?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

14 hours ago, Holko said:

Unfortunately a glitch made it into both versions of T-Rex Rescue, a loud pop in the left channel at 2:43. I had to patch it up with the section from the JP set version, thankfully it's in an easily editable spot.

 

I'd call that rather quiet, compared to the glitches on the first batch of the TPM UE set 

 

 

TURN YOUR VOLUME WAY DOWN!

[blondheim 1,157]

I wonder what changes, if any, they will make to The Lost World before it gets repackaged as well. It'd be a real shame if that doesn't also get its own release like this.

[Chewy 2,372]

19 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

TURN YOUR VOLUME WAY DOWN!

 

Why did I miss that part  

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

There, I colored it red. 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

It replaces the climax of the carnivore motif. Are you asking for a specific timestamp?

Yes.

In .the cue " T- Rex rescue" what's the time the replacement cuts in.

JW wrote a fantastic cue but he didn't punctuate the surprise appearance of Rex in his music- which is why SS inserted the JP theme

 

 

 

[scallenger 481]

I think it's more of just a different direction. JW wrote it as a scary moment, which I am sure for the characters it really would be. But Spielberg likely realized he actually wanted it to be more "heroic". I mean a big reason they changed the ending was because he felt the Rex was the "hero" of the movie, if you will. The big star.

[Brando 1,848]

1 hour ago, blondheim said:

I wonder what changes, if any, they will make to The Lost World before it gets repackaged as well. It'd be a real shame if that doesn't also get its own release like this.

Everyone of my able fingers are crossed 🤞 

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

Yes.

In .the cue " T- Rex rescue" what's the time the replacement cuts in.

JW wrote a fantastic cue but he didn't punctuate the surprise appearance of Rex in his music- which is why SS inserted the JP theme

 

 

 

In my film edit, the tracking begins at 6:39/6:40 roughly. As to your second point, I guess it boils down to how JW saw it. Stevens sort of last minute addition of the Trex saving the day for one final appearance was because he felt the audience, IIRC, would feel cheated(can’t remember if that’s the word he used)if we didn’t get to see the Rex again. However, I think JW saw it as a monster stepping in to take out the lesser monsters out of being territorial. Considering he scored the T Rex Chase with the carnivore motif, it makes sense that’s how he wrote the finale. That being said, I do like the tracking, but it’d be interesting to hear what would’ve been written if he asked JW to write and insert for the scene instead.

[enderdrag64 624]

On 15/07/2022 at 12:23 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Yes, that makes sense - for *software* players. I've been there myself. But a "traditional" hardware CD player would just play the one single audio stream on the CD, without "changing tracks" (unless you've programmed a different order), and would therefore have no need for buffering.

 

Unless it's in fact just a glorified mini computer with a CD drive that effectively just live-rips every track individually and then plays them back digitally as separate streams (in fact, in a way that's how I think a typical Blu-ray player works; from what I've seen in firmware upgrade screens, they're usually Linux based (and yet there's still no proper Blu-ray playback software for Linux…)). In that case, you'd be just as well (or in fact) better of with a computer and the CD ripped to files on a local or network drive. (Though if someone goes to the lengths of building something like this, neglecting to do the proper buffering for gapless playback seems even more of a blunder)

 

I'm not saying such players do not or cannot exist. I'm just saying that from what I understand, making something like this makes little sense, and I would expect them to be a very small minority of lousy products.

Yeah the reason blu-ray players operate like that is for DRM and control purposes. There's an excellent writeup on the makemkv forums that goes into detail about this process and how blu-ray drives evolved from cd drives: https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18856

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

 

8 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

I said it before, and I’ll say it again: if The Lost World gets a reissue, I’ll be pleasantly surprised. I seriously don’t know what could possibly be improved, but I felt a similar way when the reissue for Jurassic Park was first announced, so who knows.

 

Um, why wouldn't LLL reissue The Lost World? The 2016 collection sold out within a few months and it's very likely this score would be a good seller for them a second time as well. They might not change the program or mastering at all, but if anything, it would be a surprise if they don't reissue it at some point.

 

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Okay, I'm sorry, but it is literally impossible not to hear the horn flub. I never even knew that was what the film version was about and did a huge double take when hearing it for the first time yesterday. You cannot not hear this.

 

I mean, it doesn't bug me.

[Matt S. 492]

13 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

Um, why wouldn't LLL reissue The Lost World? The 2016 collection sold out within a few months and it's very likely this score would be a good seller for them a second time as well. They might not change the program or mastering at all, but if anything, it would be a surprise if they don't reissue it at some point.

 

I agree, I believe it’s only a matter of time

before The Lost World gets reissued.  I also wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see it released as a 3-disc set with the original 1997 album included this time.

 

But unlike Ian Malcolm, I’m not right all the time, so don’t take my word for it!

[Brando 1,848]

30 minutes ago, Matt S. said:

I agree, I believe it’s only a matter of time before The Lost World gets reissued.

Couldn’t resist

[crumbs 14,287]

Does anyone else hear a weird digital glitch/skip at 2:30 in Journey to the Island, on the final note of the descending strings? It's like a weird garbled noise.

 

And it's not exclusive to the new release; both versions of JTTI have it, as did the older LLL and 20th Anniversary.

 

I don't have the original OST to compare and see if it's present there as well. It might be inherent in the recording or it might be artifact inherent in the high-res transfers all these releases used.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

I just listened to the OST and 2016 versions and can't hear anything. There's a 'hard' switch from strings to brass, but I don't hear any noises or issues.

 

12 hours ago, Brando said:

That being said, I do like the tracking, but it’d be interesting to hear what would’ve been written if he asked JW to write and insert for the scene instead.

 

I'd vastly prefer it if JW had written a revised cue/insert as the edit to put the fanfare in really isn't very good but creatively I think it works far better than the intended version. Conceptually, JW approach it sensibly and wrote a nice piece, but it's not right for the film.

 

11 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Um, why wouldn't LLL reissue The Lost World? The 2016 collection sold out within a few months and it's very likely this score would be a good seller for them a second time as well. They might not change the program or mastering at all, but if anything, it would be a surprise if they don't reissue it at some point.

 

Something probably worth highlighting is MM's interview right here on JWFan where he explains that two discs is not enough room for TLW to have the same score + OST arrangement as JP.

 

Hence if they reissued TLW, it would either be a straight reissue, or three discs to include a remastered OST.

 

Also I guess depends on whether LLL thinks that TLW standalone has the same extended sales power as JP. Didn't MM say that he asked to include TLW in 2016 only because he thought the anniversary set made a JP-only set have less impact?

[MedigoScan 324]

On 01/07/2022 at 6:14 PM, crumbs said:

• And after that, please please please Jurassic Park 3 expanded!!! 

 

Expanded and accurate to the film version!

JP3 did have the FYC release, but I like those tracks more without all the brass overlays.

Plus give us the Pteranodon cage track already.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

The JP3 FYC is indeed a nice stop-gap but yes, we ideally need a set presenting film takes, especially of the Pterandon cage sequence and the end credits. The sped-up JP theme is amongst the worst decisions made by JW & co.

 

Plus the sound on the OST and the FYC could do with improvement.

[Evanus 216]

9 hours ago, crumbs said:

Does anyone else hear a weird digital glitch/skip at 2:30 in Journey to the Island, on the final note of the descending strings? It's like a weird garbled noise.

 

And it's not exclusive to the new release; both versions of JTTI have it, as did the older LLL and 20th Anniversary.

 

I don't have the original OST to compare and see if it's present there as well. It might be inherent in the recording or it might be artifact inherent in the high-res transfers all these releases used.

Yes! I noticed that too a while ago, but I couldn't find anything about it online.. it doesn't seem to be as noticeable on the original OST.

 

Either way, good to know I'm not going insane. 

[JohnnyD 1,220]

9 hours ago, crumbs said:

Does anyone else hear a weird digital glitch/skip at 2:30 in Journey to the Island, on the final note of the descending strings? It's like a weird garbled noise.

 

And it's not exclusive to the new release; both versions of JTTI have it, as did the older LLL and 20th Anniversary.

 

I don't have the original OST to compare and see if it's present there as well. It might be inherent in the recording or it might be artifact inherent in the high-res transfers all these releases used.

I don’t here anything unusual at all; there is no glitch/skip. I listened to the same section on the 2016 set, and looked up the 20th anniversary OST and 1993 album to listen to the same section: nothing unusual there either. The only thing I noticed was the remastered sound.

[Evanus 216]

It's very subtle, but it's there..

[JohnnyD 1,220]

That’s no digital skip/glitch. That’s just part of the recording. It’s just as it was performed and recorded. Here is an idea: just enjoy the music.

[Evanus 216]

Oh I'm not saying it's a big issue or anything, just thought it was interesting. It sounds like a digital glitch or something to me, like crumbs said. But I suppose it's just part of the recording, then.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Is it possible JW scored the climactic scene with unfinished sfx?

Perhaps, the T- Rex appearance was not yet edited into the scene or only in the script at that point.

Iirc SS wasn't present at the scoring sessions

[Brando 1,848]

48 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Is it possible JW scored the climactic scene with unfinished sfx?

Perhaps, the T- Rex appearance was not yet edited into the scene or only in the script at that point.

Iirc SS wasn't present at the scoring sessions

I don’t think so. Because according to all of the making of stories, JP has had at least 3(including the final film version)versions of the Raptors getting taken out. The first one, which I believe was the one that stayed in the longest was Grant using the controls of the T Rex skeleton to attack and kill the raptors. Then at some point i read that there was an idea of Hammond walking and shooting the Raptors. And then of course during filming SS felt the audience would be cheated if we didn’t see the Rex again. So that’s what they filmed and was apart of the locked cut that SS put together before leaving for Poland. I’m not sure if it’s been documented anywhere if they filmed the first one I mentioned, so it looks like once SS came up with the Rex saving the day he scrapped the other one before it was filmed. There is footage of the Visitors Center skeletons being broken on set with no creatures in them, so I’m willing to bet that’s what JW saw as he spotted the movie.