Would You Want a Filmmaker to reuse John Williams cues the way Tarantino uses Morricone?

[Mr. Gitz 85]

One day John Williams will no longer be with us. There will be no new John Williams music. A sad that that will be. But I’ve often wondered, with film music moving away from certain aesthetic and nostalgia being the in thing, do you think we will see filmmakers use John Williams music the way Tarantino repurposes and reuses Ennio Morricone music? What would you think of that?

 

honestly, I kind of wish more filmmakers would do what QT does. Not at the expense of having no composer work on the film but I’d love to hear Williams music in unexpected places. Especially some of his scores that went to lesser films. 
 

for example, Hook. Now I love that film. But I will admit it’s an entirely nostalgic thing since I grew up with it. But the score? My god. I’d love to hear someone really let that haunting choir bit in “Leaving Neverland” live again and shine. 
 

So, what say you? Are tracks like “Shark Cage Fugue” sacrosanct? Or shall they live again?

[mrbellamy 6,278]

 

 

I think generally with this stuff, the deeper the cuts the better (unless the recognizability is part of it, especially for comedic effect) but yeah I could get into it. 

 

That use of The Fury in Euphoria was cool

 

 

[DangerMotif 1,037]

Thematic stuff is a whole nother story but the Fury in Euphoria was awesome

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Whoa, I don't watch Euphoria and didn't realise it used the Fury theme! What a great use of it. 

 

I would love it if more filmmakers used Williams' music like this. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened more in decades to come, particularly more obscure stuff like the above example. I can't imagine the really iconic music working very well though; the existing associations to things like Star Wars or Indiana Jones are probably too strong for a reimagining to work in the same way, at least not without delving into parody territory. Could be a great way for some budding music editors to expose audiences to some of JW's hidden gems.

[igger6 894]

I don't like this idea.  If you want orchestral music that sounds like Williams, hire a composer and tell him or her that.  If the composer is good, you'll get brilliant new music that keeps the orchestral form alive. 

 

Williams himself argued against this approach on Star Wars, and as a result, we got 40 years of a musical idiom thought to be dead in the '70s.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

I’m pretty sure the Fury album got released digitally because of Euphoria. Just waiting for someone to use Sabrina

[artguy360 1,843]

I'm cool with it. I think it can be done tastefully. I think Summon the Heroes could be used like pseudo-classical music to back a big battle scene.

[GerateWohl 4,357]

I don't really get, what filmmakers using Williams' music like Tarantino used Morricone has to do with Williams not living forever. Tarantino used Morricones music mostly while Morricone was still with us. Morricone even wrote an original score for Tarantino's second last movie.

 

But the comparrison doesn't work anyway. Williams scored very different movies than Morricone. Tarantino comes from the B-Movie world and when you talk about directors "like Tarantino" they will always do. And Morricone wrote B-Movie scores that became iconic. I mean, Williams wrote B-Movie scores in the 50s and 60s. But none of them became iconic. Williams' iconic scores were written for blockbusters. And from these Williams' music got quoted already heavily, of course mainly in a cartoonish parodistic way, like the Jaws theme in "The Secret of My Success", by the way one of my favourite quotes of his music in another film.

 

I mean I could imagine that someone might use in the future a theme from Williams in the way Bernard Herrmann's music was used in The Artist or in A Single Man. Why not? But I never really unerstood the purpose of these two quotes.

[Darth Mulder 153]

 

The Key from How to Steal a Million 

 

 

[Mr. Gitz 85]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

I don't really get, what filmmakers using Williams' music like Tarantino used Morricone has to do with Williams not living forever. Tarantino used Morricones music mostly while Morricone was still with us. Morricone even wrote an original score for Tarantino's second last movie.

 

But the comparrison doesn't work anyway. Williams scored very different movies than Morricone. Tarantino comes from the B-Movie world and when you talk about directors "like Tarantino" they will always do. And Morricone wrote B-Movie scores that became iconic. I mean, Williams wrote B-Movie scores in the 50s and 60s. But none of them became iconic. Williams' iconic scores were written for blockbusters. And from these Williams' music got quoted already heavily, of course mainly in a cartoonish parodistic way, like the Jaws theme in "The Secret of My Success", by the way one of my favourite quotes of his music in another film.

 

I mean I could imagine that someone might use in the future a theme from Williams in the way Bernard Herrmann's music was used in The Artist or in A Single Man. Why not? But I never really unerstood the purpose of these two quotes.

You don’t get not being able to experience John Williams music in an IMAX theatre with amazing sound? Because once he passes away, unless his scores are reused or the films rereleased, that’s it. No more. 
 

And yes, Morricone was still alive when QT was needle dropping his scores. But John Williams exerts far more control over his music than EM(the recent Obi Wan/Natalie Holt controversy highlights how protective he is). While he’s alive he may not allow his scores to be used like that. When he passes away that protection might no longer be a factor and so filmmakers can do as they wish so long as they pay the license fee. 

[bollemanneke 3,342]

I'm not sure, actually. On one hand, yes (Shark theme), but on another, say a random Hook cue with broad themes, no. If it works, I guess, yeah.

[GerateWohl 4,357]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Gitz said:

You don’t get not being able to experience John Williams music in an IMAX theatre with amazing sound? Because once he passes away, unless his scores are reused or the films rereleased, that’s it. No more. 
 

And yes, Morricone was still alive when QT was needle dropping his scores. But John Williams exerts far more control over his music than EM(the recent Obi Wan/Natalie Holt controversy highlights how protective he is). While he’s alive he may not allow his scores to be used like that. When he passes away that protection might no longer be a factor and so filmmakers can do as they wish so long as they pay the license fee. 

Independent of Williams'physical condition I rather look forward to hearing his music more frequent in the concert halls. I don't really mind hearing it in other movies. And protective or not, the movies and TV shows are full of quotes of his music already.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

1 hour ago, Darth Mulder said:

 

The Key from How to Steal a Million 

 

 

There's JP in the second one too

[GerateWohl 4,357]

Such things can also do harm to the music. I once found Bernard Herrmann's shower killing music from Psycho really scary. But since I heard it in the cockroach episode of Alf it just has become a joke. Now I associate it rather with Alf than with Psycho.

 

[BB-8 3,472]

"Would you want John Williams to appear in a film on Morricone together with Hans Zimmer?"

 

Well, it's too late now.

 

@ 0:55 

 

 

[mrbellamy 6,278]

I feel like if somebody uses Adventures on Earth for their 15 minute finale just because they want it in IMAX theaters with amazing sound, it's gonna be hack. I can't think of anything worse lol. Get your own emotional catharsis. 

 

But I get the idea in theory that a guy like Tarantino who conceptualizes his soundtracks a certain way and by random luck of the draw on our end, Jerry Goldsmith's "Nicaragua" gets blasted in a multiplex in 2012, uninterrupted and alone in the mix, and it works. That's fun. But it's not anything like having Jerry here, it's more a Quentin Tarantino moment than a Jerry Goldsmith moment. I think QT's good at what he does but as far as missing Goldsmith, that's small potatoes. I'd rather a re-release of a Jerry Goldsmith movie or a Jerry Goldsmith concert. 

 

I'd also add that, okay, so the story of Star Wars' musical legacy begins with rejecting the soundtrack approach. I don't argue against Kubrick, Tarantino, or Malick. Some of my favorite movies go this way, it's either tasteful or not like anything else. 

[GerateWohl 4,357]

It is also much easier to adapt Morricone for other movies. He does almost no Mickey Mousing in his scores. Often even the music was written before it was filmed. It is rather the Henry Mancini approach. So, Williams music is not very suitable for adaptation in other contexts. Except for the quotation of themes in little scenes, like the Yoda quote, Williams did in E.T. himself.

 

[BB-8 3,472]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

It is also much easier to adapt Morricone for other movies. He does almost no Mickey Mousing in his scores. Often even the music was written before it was filmed. It is rather the Henry Mancini approach. So, Williams music is not very suitable for adaptation in other contexts. Except for the quotation of themes in little scenes, like the Yoda quote, Williams did in E.T. himself.

 

Yeah, agree, like the use of Leitmotifs in "Jurassic World" and "Rogue One", but when full action sequences are warmed-up like in "Solo" it may seem like a cheap rehash.

 

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 hours ago, Darth Mulder said:

 

The Key from How to Steal a Million 

 

 

 

I'd love to know if it was the music supervisor, the editor, or MacFarlane himself who initially picked that cue.  Wouldn't be surprised if it was MacFarlane, knowing something of his taste.

[QuartalHarmony 542]

Star Wars was reused in Ferris Bueller…

[Jay 37,351]

That was recorded fresh by Ira Newborn for the movie, they didn't needle-drop in the existing LSO film recording

[Bespin 8,480]

As long as they can afford the rights!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

14 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

It is also much easier to adapt Morricone for other movies. He does almost no Mickey Mousing in his scores. Often even the music was written before it was filmed. It is rather the Henry Mancini approach. So, Williams music is not very suitable for adaptation in other contexts. Except for the quotation of themes in little scenes, like the Yoda quote, Williams did in E.T. himself.

 

 

I would argue that the plethora of concert suites Williams has written for his themes would work perfectly for such use. They were composed as standalone orchestral music without any sync points in mind; it'd be no different than quoting sections or movements of a Beethoven symphony or Strauss tone poem. 

[Tom 4,653]

On 13/07/2022 at 11:14 PM, Gibster said:

Thematic stuff is a whole nother story but the Fury in Euphoria was awesome

But that was thematic stuff.  

[Koray Savas 2,251]

On 14/7/2022 at 10:46 AM, Stu said:

 

I'd love to know if it was the music supervisor, the editor, or MacFarlane himself who initially picked that cue.  Wouldn't be surprised if it was MacFarlane, knowing something of his taste.

Knowing how much MacFarlane is into jazz and film scores, I'd say it was his decision. I think Lukas Kendall told a story once how MacFarlane would play Johnny's Rhythm In Motion album at his house parties.