Faleel 5,347 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Ok, so definitely not the second The MM just stuck in my mind far more than the others as it shows up a whole bunch of times Fixed Just now, Jay said: What? Misty Mountains is absolutely a diegetic song. Not the end credits version 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jay said: What? Misty Mountains is absolutely a diegetic song. All the uses of its melody in the score are new arrangements of Plan 9's melody done by Shore That's my point - it started as a diegetic song and got adapted into the score itself, hence why I recalled it more easily than the other bits they did. For me it feels like the main theme of the film, which is partly a reflection of how much it ended up being used, and partly a reflection of how much I think Shore's new themes are a bit meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Well it didn't help that his best new theme was essentially non-existent in the film Faleel and TolkienSS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Which one was that? Faleel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Well it didn't help that his best new theme was essentially non-existent in the film A theme to the titular character no less! Just now, Richard Penna said: Which one was that? Pretty sure he is referring to the theme in Dreaming of Bag End. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 I didn't like any of those bonus tracks, except The Edge of the Wild. Something about those melodies does not sit well with me - it's like the exact opposite of Bear's RoP melodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MedigoScan 324 Posted September 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2022 It does not help that the movie makers found new ways to hinder people's enjoyment of the music in each part of the trilogy. From AUJ with its tracking and bajillion unreleased inserts. To DoS with all the frustrating silencing of music. To BoFA with the music being buried under soundeffects alltogether. Edmund, Edmilson and TheUlyssesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 AUJ had more musical issues with tracking, inserts, whereas for me at least, DoS and BoFA had major movie issues (translation: I think both films are pretty awful). Neither scenario results in a very satisfying musical experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, MedigoScan said: To DoS with all the frustrating silencing of music. Aaaaaaaameeeeeeeeeeen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I didn't like any of those bonus tracks, I do like them but that's not even the best setting of the new theme on that album, that would be this beautiful horn solo: There was so much potential here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, MedigoScan said: To BoFA with the music being buried under soundeffects alltogether. And the terribly choppy spotting in the battle (because they had no idea what would be how long) denying Shore the opportunity for proper longlined development and mood shifts. Don't remember the DOS dial-outs but to me the worst offender is the removal of a fantastic Smaug B and A when he flies iverhead and sets fire to Laketown, leaving the buildup hanging. I love the AUJ bonus pieces. I'd have loved scores based on them. But would we have gotten DoS, the best one, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Holko said: And the terribly choppy everything with the battle Fixed 6 minutes ago, Holko said: And the terribly choppy spotting in the battle (because they had no idea what would be how long) denying Shore the opportunity for proper longlined development and mood shifts. Don't remember the DOS dial-outs but to me the worst offender is the removal of a fantastic Smaug B and A when he flies iverhead and sets fire to Laketown, leaving the buildup hanging. I love the AUJ bonus pieces. I'd have loved scores based on them. But would we have gotten DoS, the best one, then? DOS/TABA would have been recorded by the LPO though, so a trade I would have been able to live with. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Holko said: And the terribly choppy spotting in the battle (because they had no idea what would be how long) denying Shore the opportunity for proper longlined development and mood shifts. Don't remember the DOS dial-outs but to me the worst offender is the removal of a fantastic Smaug B and A when he flies iverhead and sets fire to Laketown, leaving the buildup hanging. I love the AUJ bonus pieces. I'd have loved scores based on them. But would we have gotten DoS, the best one, then? A lot of great Smaug statements were removed From the one where he first starts talking, all the way to his final death scene. (On the other hand the album microedited the opening segment of BOFA so much it was hardly recognizable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 12 hours ago, Richard Penna said: For me it feels like the main theme of the film, which is partly a reflection of how much it ended up being used, and partly a reflection of how much I think Shore's new themes are a bit meh. Its certainly a major idea for the film, and its a shame it got lost in the subsequent scores. But these scores really don't have "main" themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artguy360 1,843 Posted September 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2022 The thematic richness of ROP continues to pay dividends. Bear has done a great job. I'm also impressed by the editing and spotting. The music is consistently given big moments to shine along with the great visuals. ROP is the best tv score I've heard in a long time and it's just getting started. JNHFan2000, JohnTheBaptist, Edmilson and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Has Nolwa Mahtar been already used in a trailer? I saw somebody mention that I can’t find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max 141 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Has Nolwa Mahtar been already used in a trailer? I saw somebody mention that I can’t find it! It’s used at the start of this one: TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted September 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 27, 2022 On 23/09/2022 at 4:29 PM, Jay said: I have this document in my Google Drive that I think someone here had made? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VmWESXw9GcYOy0ROA-VeZxJBsudgjH3Cr68zAiC-vxg/ It's really terrific - is whoever is behind this planning on continuing into further episodes? On 23/09/2022 at 8:47 PM, JNHFan2000 said: No sure who it was, because it's been a week or so since he posted. But he also does the breakdowns of the score of House Of The Dragon each episode, on a seperate website. He mentioned on his breakdown of The Rings Of Power episode 4 that he's is away from home for a couple of weeks, and he will get to it when he is back. I'm working on the thematic timestamps on episode 5 right now. Will post it within the next 2 hours Yes, that was me! I've been out of home for a couple of weeks, but I hope that during this week I can catch up with both Rings of Power and House of the Dragon and post my new analysis on the blog, and I will also try to update that spreadhseet! Thanks for your interest, much appreciated! Edmund, Jay, TheUlyssesian and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 789 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Well, I managed to watch the fourth episode and write my analysis of the soundtrack, and as I said, I hope I catch up with the rest of the episodes during the week. The fourth episode was a bit more laid back, but featured some great variations on Adar's theme, as well as the Durin's theme, but the entire highlight is probably the White Leaves sequence, which features great statements of the three main themes of that storyline (Galadriel, Numenor, Elendil and isildur). BTW, I also updated the spreadsheet with information from the missing episodes. Anyway, here is my analysis. I hope you enjoy and feel free to share your thoughts! My Analysis of The Rings of Power - 1x04: The Great Wave Monoverantus and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 I've been meaning to tell you that the Elrond chord progression is wrong. I rushed when I made my score introduction video, and put the first chords as G-Gm, but having had time to see other analyses, it's clear that the first four bars should be G-C-Eb-Gm. Could be problems with the rest too, but I'm sure Bear will release his own notations soon, and then the whole thing will be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 9 hours ago, Knight of Ren said: BTW, I also updated the spreadsheet with information from the missing episodes. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already, but "Nobody Goes Off Trail" features an extended performance of Nori's theme compared with "Both Our Bloodlines" from ep. 3. Just in case you'd like to include that in your spreadsheet 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,355 Posted September 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 27, 2022 This afternoon I listened to the 17 concert arrangements from the score, but I listened to them in the order that the theme first appears within the show's underscore, and boy, it was a great listening experience! Basically, I listened to this: 8 Valinor 2 Galadriel 7 Sauron 12 Harfoot Life 4 Nori Brandyfoot 14 Halbrand 13 Bronwyn and Arondir 10 Elrond Half-Elven 5 The Stranger 37 Where The Shadows Lie (Instrumental) 3 Khazad-dûm 11 Durin IV 22 Nampat 6 Númenor 18 Elendil and Isildur 32 0:00-3:11 The Mystics 21 Nolwa Mahtar Try it out! I thought it had a real great flow to it. Quite a nice hour-long album, here. enderdrag64, artguy360, Holko and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 789 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 10 hours ago, Bounty95 said: I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already, but "Nobody Goes Off Trail" features an extended performance of Nori's theme compared with "Both Our Bloodlines" from ep. 3. Just in case you'd like to include that in your spreadsheet 🙂 Ohh, I hadn't noticed before! I'll check it out again and definitely will update the spreadsheet. Thanks! Bounty95 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 15 hours ago, Jay said: This afternoon I listened to the 17 concert arrangements from the score, but I listened to them in the order that the theme first appears within the show, and boy, it was a great listening experience! Basically, I listened to this: 8 Valinor 2 Galadriel 7 Sauron 12 Harfoot Life 4 Nori Brandyfoot 14 Halbrand 13 Bronwyn and Arondir 10 Elrond Half-Elven 5 The Stranger 37 Where The Shadows Lie (Instrumental) 3 Khazad-dûm 11 Durin IV 22 Nampat 6 Númenor 18 Elendil and Isildur 32 0:00-3:11 The Mystics 21 Nolwa Mahtar Try it out! I thought it had a real great flow to it. Quite a nice hour-long album, here. Actually shouldn’t Where The Shadows lie (Rings of power theme) be the 4th theme after Valinor, Galadriel and Sauron? It is first heard at the end of the Forodwaith cue in the first episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I think it works better where I placed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 So your list isn't really in order of appearance then. I agree the whole thing plays great though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 TBH I never noticed the Rings (Where The Shadows Lie) theme appeared in the Forodwaith track - are we 100% sure about that? It's not listed here, for example. Is @JNHFan2000 correct, or is @TheUlyssesian correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 https://bearmccreary.com/the-lord-of-the-rings-appendices-part-3/ his best blog yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 So he did compose all 9 hours himself, and it took him 9 months, including supervising recording and choir sessions over zoom from different countries. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Jay said: TBH I never noticed the Rings (Where The Shadows Lie) theme appeared in the Forodwaith track - are we 100% sure about that? It's not listed here, for example. Is @JNHFan2000 correct, or is @TheUlyssesian correct? I'm pretty sure they refer to the title card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 What does that mean, it was in the episode, but not on the episode's album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jay said: What does that mean, it was in the episode, but not on the episode's album? No, @TheUlyssesianis correct, it's right at the end of the Forodwaith track. I dunno why @JNHFan2000 didn't include it. Tbf they might not have recognised it at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Gotcha I still prefer my order to listen to the concert arrangements, because it places that one where it's theme is used within the underscore instead of as a brief title card bit jpmatlack and Monoverantus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmatlack 29 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Anyone have any idea of why Where The Shadows Lie is noted as “(Instrumental)”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 On 24/08/2022 at 8:48 AM, Monoverantus said: I can't believe it took me so long to realise that the title "Where the Shadows Lie (Instrumental)" not only implies the track has lyrics, but also gives away what they are: Monoverantus and jpmatlack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 The blogs have not increased my appreciation for Bear, this score, or his methods. Quite the opposite actually. I understand now why I don’t like his work: I just don’t like the way he goes about composing. And that’s okay. In a weird way I find it kind of funny, for years I’ve defended Giacchino against his haters who just don’t like his methods of composing. But now I have found a composer where I feel that way and so now, finally, I get it. His work still doesn’t bother me much and I enjoy it but I totally understand someone disagreeing with his methods. It’s fair. In a Ent-sized nutshell, I understand how Thor feels. Monoverantus and jpmatlack 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Fascinating read. I wonder whether he will be able to maintain this exhausting work ethic for the subsequent seasons. From a fan's perspective, this would be a dream come true. jpmatlack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 hours ago, blondheim said: In a weird way I find it kind of funny, for years I’ve defended Giacchino against his haters who just don’t like his methods of composing. Out of curiosity, what is it people don't like about Giacchino's methods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,687 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, Bounty95 said: Fascinating read. I wonder whether he will be able to maintain this exhausting work ethic for the subsequent seasons. From a fan's perspective, this would be a dream come true. It feels like a delicate balance between going hard on himself mentally and physically, but maintaining that creative control and having the pride of an entire show under his belt. At least you'd assume he's now got time to recharge for the next season. I wouldn't have been against additional composers being involved at all for a score of this scale, but it's pretty cool knowing that every note of what we're hearing is him. Bounty95 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Gibster said: https://bearmccreary.com/the-lord-of-the-rings-appendices-part-3/ his best blog yet I can't read this, it just feels so ... corporate. And I can't help but cringe when he says he was part of "the fellowship" now over a Zoom call. In a way, this is a poignant metaphor for the lack of human elements in this show. But I'm surprised he got a relatively delicate theme out of watching endless hours of Galadriel in constant bitch-face mode. jpmatlack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, TolkienSS said: But I'm surprised he got a relatively delicate theme out of watching endless hours of Galadriel in constant bitch-face mode. If what I hear about this upcoming episode is true, he might have had a good hearty laugh at the episode's expense. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna come friday. I have already packed drinks for the occasion! jpmatlack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 9 hours ago, Jay said: Gotcha I still prefer my order to listen to the concert arrangements, because it places that one where it's theme is used within the underscore instead of as a brief title card bit title card is still a part of the main program. It’s like saying history of the ring theme over LOTR movie title cards shouldn’t be counted since they aren’t the movie proper. i think this appearence of the theme definitely counts but I understand if you wanna place it at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 29 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: title card is still a part of the main program. True, but not exactly part of the development, see Fellowship theme in the FOTR EE title card blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 29, 2022 Author Share Posted September 29, 2022 I think of it as the kind of prefiguring (ahnen) of a form the leitmotif will later take, which you get either in overtures or even within the body of leitmotivic works: technically, the presentation of the motive associated with the sword in Das Rheingold ("So grüß' ich die Burg / sicher vor Bang' und Grau'n!") is "jumping the gun" in terms of the way that motive will be gradually rolled-out in Die Walküre. jpmatlack and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted September 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 29, 2022 15 hours ago, Monoverantus said: Out of curiosity, what is it people don't like about Giacchino's methods? Basically being a pastiche composer. Emulating others instead of developing his own style. Writing thin, clunky scores that go plinkety-plunck with very dry recordings. Action music is too simplistic, emotional themes are all structured the same way, etc. That ‘hack’ feeling they feel is how Bear’s work has been making me feel. I still have yet to hear a distinct voice in anything Bear does. The paragraph where he states that his Middle Earth isn’t just inspired by Shore but by… literally everyone made me laugh out loud. No wonder I think he sounds anonymous. TolkienSS, Chen G., jpmatlack and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,355 Posted September 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 29, 2022 We watched episode 4 last night Man, this show is a pleasure to watch because of the score - it's so good! It's so fun to watch a show and hear good, memorable themes pop up that you associate with characters or cultures, it really enhances the viewing. It's like when you re-watch a movie after getting to know the score, and pick up on what all these themes are associated with, and when. But this time it's a show, so we get this great album up front to learn all the themes, and then get to hear these themes taken in new directions with each new episode for a couple months. I'm glad that it was only the first 2 episodes for me that felt like the concert arrangements I knew from the album were slapped directly into the episodes; Episodes 3 and 4 have featured cool variations of the themes that nicely integrate right into their scenes. I also liked that "Plea for the Rocks" moment in the show. Halfway through, and I'm really loving this score, on album as well as how it works in the show! jpmatlack, Bounty95 and Monoverantus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monoverantus 363 Posted September 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 29, 2022 4 hours ago, blondheim said: Basically being a pastiche composer. Emulating others instead of developing his own style. Writing thin, clunky scores that go plinkety-plunck with very dry recordings. Action music is too simplistic, emotional themes are all structured the same way, etc. That ‘hack’ feeling they feel is how Bear’s work has been making me feel. I still have yet to hear a distinct voice in anything Bear does. The paragraph where he states that his Middle Earth isn’t just inspired by Shore but by… literally everyone made me laugh out loud. No wonder I think he sounds anonymous. I think a lot of those complaints reveal more about the person saying them than the composers themselves. Just like one composer could be described as either "drawing from many sources " or "having no identity ", another composer could be described as either "having a distinct voice " or "being a one-trick pony ". jpmatlack, JohnTheBaptist and enderdrag64 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, Monoverantus said: I think a lot of those complaints reveal more about the person saying them than the composers themselves. Just like one composer could be described as either "drawing from many sources " or "having no identity ", another composer could be described as either "having a distinct voice " and "being a one-trick pony ". I sort of agree with this statement, although I think, like math, there are definitive ways to clarify musical intention. Only appreciation and enjoyment can be ascribed to opinion; intellect in music is simply a fact and is or is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 3 hours ago, blondheim said: I sort of agree with this statement, although I think, like math, there are definitive ways to clarify musical intention. Only appreciation and enjoyment can be ascribed to opinion; intellect in music is simply a fact and is or is not. Now it's my turn to sort of agree, because, yes of course there's a difference between objective and subjective statements. However, whether "intellect" in music is worth more appreciation is still subjective. I'm a prime example myself, for being very indifferent to John Williams, though I recognise that he's on a whole other level than Howard Shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 21 hours ago, blondheim said: The blogs have not increased my appreciation for Bear, this score, or his methods. Quite the opposite actually. I understand now why I don’t like his work: I just don’t like the way he goes about composing. Well, his methods seem to consist in writing everything by himself in detailed sketches with all the indications needed by the orchestrators, and writing the whole day for an insane amount of hours. It doesn't sound too different from JW's work ethics. And 9 hours of music of that complexity to be written in a single go during 9 consecutive months is a huge task. I'm not familiar with McCreary's previous work, but I still don't see what is so wrong with his ROP scores, and even less with the methods he has used to compose them. Just now, Monoverantus said: Now it's my turn to sort of agree, because, yes of course there's a difference between objective and subjective statements. However, whether "intellect" in music is worth more appreciation is still subjective. I think one of the sources of disagreement is that not everyone here seems to agree on what is "intellect" in music. Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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