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Bear McCreary's The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings of Power (2022)


Chen G.

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19 hours ago, Jay said:

The more I listen to "Warning In the Woods", the more I'm loving this orchestral re-interpretation of This Wandering Day.  I hope subsequent episodes feature more versions of this tune!

Same here. The song itself was a highlight of the whole first season for me. But mainly the version sung by the actual actress

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29 minutes ago, Jay said:

ONE harp statement? There's (at least) two:

 

ep 1 "To Serve the Lord of Mordor" @ 1:45

ep 2 "Before Darkness Binds Us All" @ 0:00

You misunderstood me.

 

Notice I didn't say the only.

 

Still, prior post edited.

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7 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Is this season music more similar to shore's? it seemed to me so.

I think it feels closer, yes

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36 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Is this season music more similar to shore's? it seemed to me so.

Damn... that was my one original comment on S2 music so far, how could you steal it from me?! ;). But yes, both melodically and harmonically, it feels more like Shore than the first season, especially the choral writing.

 

My only other comment is that I can't really get into The Last Ballad of Damrod... and it sticks out like a sore thumb amongst the rest too.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Damn... that was my one original comment on S2 music so far, how could you steal it from me?! ;). But yes, both melodically and harmonically, it feels more like Shore than the first season, especially the choral writing.

 

My only other comment is that I can't really get into The Last Ballad of Damrod... and it sticks out like a sore thumb amongst the rest too.

Weirdly, I didn't like "Last Ballad" either, but kinda dug "Enter Damrod" minus the vocals...

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On 29/08/2024 at 6:10 PM, Jay said:

OOOOh, interesting!  A theme without a concert arrangement!

 

@Knight of Ren noticed another one too:

 

I skeptical of the validity of the first motif, they're quite different upon examination (notes below transposed to the same key). The other one on the other hand is indeed consistent, and in fact sung at 0:09 in The Staff too. image.png

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Ooh thanks the the reminder.  I just checked out the timestamps myself.


I agree.  The melody from 6:59-7:07 of "Cirdan" is not the same melody at 3:09-3:24 of "Three Rings for the Elven Kings".

 

 

However, yes!  This is clearly a new theme without a concert arrangement:

  1. episode 2 "My Name Is Not Halbrand" 1:22-1:37
  2. season album "Battle For Eregion" 0:06-0:26
  3. season album "Battle For Eregion" 6:40-7:26 (choir)
  4. season album "The Staff" 0:10-2:01 (choir).  Is that a b section starting at 1:11?

 

That's a nice theme that I bet will get developed a lot more in the later episode albums!

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Maybe something they mention in dialogue at that point

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Is The One Ring going to be forged this season?  If so, maybe it's a theme for that.

 

 

~

 

Is that also Sauron harp at 9:24 of Dawn of the Second Age?

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Yeah, I guess seeing the reduction it does seem different, but when watching the episode, and the fact that it appears both in moments relating to the Elven Rings made me think it could be a motif but I guess not. The other one on the other hand it's clearly a theme, but we don't know yet its meaning. Could be a Celebrimbor motif but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have it play on The Staff which I suppose will relate to The Stranger. We'll just have to wait and see (and hear!)

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Interesting to read you guys saying this season's score sounds more Shore-like.  That's not a thought I had had myself... thought I'm listening to "Before Darkness Binds Us All" right now and the choir at 7:13 reminds me of something specific from one of the LOTR scores

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Interesting to read you guys saying this season's score sounds more Shore-like.  That's not a thought I had had myself... thought I'm listening to "Before Darkness Binds Us All" right now and the choir at 7:13 reminds me of something specific from one of the LOTR scores

That bit actually reminds me of SoUN.

 

2:32 of A Prelude to Revolt

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9 hours ago, Jay said:

Ooh thanks the the reminder.  I just checked out the timestamps myself.


I agree.  The melody from 6:59-7:07 of "Cirdan" is not the same melody at 3:09-3:24 of "Three Rings for the Elven Kings".

 

 

However, yes!  This is clearly a new theme without a concert arrangement:

  1. episode 2 "My Name Is Not Halbrand" 1:22-1:37
  2. season album "Battle For Eregion" 0:06-0:26
  3. season album "Battle For Eregion" 6:40-7:26 (choir)
  4. season album "The Staff" 0:10-2:01 (choir).  Is that a b section starting at 1:11?

 

That's a nice theme that I bet will get developed a lot more in the later episode albums!

 

I don't think the 6:59 in Cirdan is a leitmotif, it is probably just scene-specific. 

 

And the 1:22 in My Name Is Not Halbrand could be a Celebrimbor motif, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

Now I did notice another motif, that may or may not be a motif - 0:00 to 0:24 is Cirdan is played over an introductory establishing shot of The Grey Havens - a key location in the mythos. But I don't think it returns. But if it does, it could be a Grey Havens motif.

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Watched the first three, and for me episode 2 is the runaway highlight, musically - pretty much any of it could've gone on the season album. Episode 1 has some really good highlights, but a tad overreliance on Sauron's theme for my liking.

 

I think an issue Bear had with episode 3 is that there's an awful lot of dialogue scenes that either don't have music or really don't need anything particularly notable. Hence when you do his usual trimming, losing short cues, etc, you're left with barely more than a half hour of music, and most of that is reprisals of existing themes. Hardly surprising therefore that, the Estrid concert piece aside, just 7 minutes from this episode are on the season album - the really interesting, new music is elsewhere.

 

Construction-wise, there seems to be a little more in the way of trimming starts and ends of cues this season but I reckon that in the overall scope of the work, we've still got 90-95% of the music and so far I've not noticed anything essential missing. (and given the show thus far, I'm not likely to be rewatching much of it)

 

15 hours ago, Knight of Ren said:

Yeah, I guess seeing the reduction it does seem different, but when watching the episode, and the fact that it appears both in moments relating to the Elven Rings made me think it could be a motif but I guess not. The other one on the other hand it's clearly a theme, but we don't know yet its meaning. Could be a Celebrimbor motif but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have it play on The Staff which I suppose will relate to The Stranger. We'll just have to wait and see (and hear!)

 

I noticed this theme in The Staff, then Battle for Eregion, but given Bear's tendency to join things together I think it's way more likely to be connected to Celebrimbor in some way than the Stranger. The bit in My Name is not Halbrand sounds like a hint of the first part. I really like it so I hope that we're going to hear a lot more of it - the later episode albums could be real smashers, particularly with the extended battle pieces. I wonder if this will be a bit like RotK, where the album has some bits here and there, but the CRs opened up the massive scale of what Shore had written for Minas Tirith.

 

I actually didn't think much of the Eregion theme when I first heard it, but some things just take a few moments to grow, and now I love it along with Estrid's theme. It was a perfect move from Bear to put the concert arrangements for both on the season album, given it's barely cameo'd so far in the show.

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Of course he put the concert arrangements on the season album. Where else would they go?

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:blink:

 

I meant that instead of putting cues that used (barely in this case) the themes, he put the concert pieces in the places they would've been, which significantly livens up that part of the album. Just an observation...

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I finally saw Ep 3 last night and there are some stunning highlights, always helps to hear the music in context.

 

The music for Miriel's Coronation is absolutely spectacular. No wonder he put it on the Season album.

 

From 0:00 to 1:10 in this cue.

 

 

I think he does something superb with the Numenor theme here. Notice from 0:13 onwards the strings (?) start playing the Numenor Finale while at 0:25 the brass picks up the Numenor A theme, so in essence Bear uses a different part of the Numenor theme as counterpoint to the Numenor theme. It lends enormous depth to the sound and is quite sophisticated. It's like Indy's B theme was used as Counterpoint to Indy's A theme.

 

Now I dunno if Bear did this in Season 1 and I missed it but I thought it was quite stunning.

 

Also the vocal version of Arondir theme for the funeral pyre is great. And of course the new Estrid theme.

 

So Ep 3 does have some highlights to treasure - but it makes sense all 3 of these were featured on the Season album.

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Yes. What makes the episode 1 and 2 albums so great is that they feature many highlights that weren't on the season album. All the episode 3 highlights already were on the season album, so it's episode album is the least exciting. And it's certainly why Bear put so many bonus tracks on that album.

 

It's the only episode and score without Galadriel and her theme, so he certainly wanted to get here theme there via the bonus track.

 

And yes, that Numenor Finale string counterpoint to the A theme is incredible! A brilliant idea executed perfectly

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And then there's me looking weirdly at you guys, easily preferring ep3's album because it has such high highlights and far less time that just drags on between them. I found 1 and 2 to be a pretty slow start with many tracks that meander along between half-statements of themes, 3's picking up! Or at least is more concentrated. And yeah, downplayed like this I can even take Damrod.

 

The S1 Overture/premiere pieces are great! I think I prefer the Overture for the less aggressive percussion and the orchestral finale.

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Damrod is a wash for me. Honestly, I see no reason why the troll deserves a theme. I think Bear was in Singularity mode, his rock album and wanted to write a rock piece and said Imma write a theme for the troll but yeah, of all characters literally Damrod did not need to have a theme. I'll be skipping Damrod material in the future. 

 

However with so much exemplary material, we have to cut Bear some slack and let him have his fun and indulgence.

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There's a tiny difference between the end of "The Great Eagle and the Forge" and the corresponding section of "Cirdan's Perfection": the two drumbeats at 5:45 in the latter come in a few seconds later in the former. That cue is probably my favorite I've heard so far, solely because of the vocal statement of the TROP theme in the beginning!

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10 minutes ago, dylanskie said:

There's a tiny difference between the end of "The Great Eagle and the Forge" and the corresponding section of "Cirdan's Perfection": the two drumbeats at 5:45 in the latter come in a few seconds later in the former.

 

Huh . I wonder why that would be?

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On 28/8/2024 at 12:16 PM, Jay said:

So with that in mind, I think we've learned that on the season 2 album:

  • Tracks 1-4 and 8 are concert arrangements (Old Tom Bombadil, Rhûn, Concerning Stoors, Golden Leaves, Eregion)

 

Isn’t “Estrid” a concert arrangement? And potentially “The Last Ballad of Damrod”?

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Of course, obviously. It's all in my Google doc. You're quoting an old post where I was specifically talking about the early part of the season album when we had only heard the episode 2 album.

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I was a big fan of the first score and I'm really pleased and amazed to see (or hear) that Bear McCreary has kept up his level. 

The standout track for me at the moment is “Stone Singers”, the elegiac sounds of which are absolutely captivating!

I'm seriously considering actually watching season two, haha, if only for the score (I didn't like season one at all, unfortunately).

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So far I’ve found season 2 to be an improvement, they resolved almost all of my complaints (except the ones related to the compressed timeline, which sadly cannot be fixed).

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At first, watching the show, was not happy when the Balfe-like nonsense, empty ostinato accompanied Galadrier's ride, but since then, Bear delivered. More than delivered.

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1 hour ago, thestat said:

At first, watching the show, was not happy when the immitation Williams-like nonsense, empty ostinato accompanied Galadrier's ride, but since then, Bear delivered. More than delivered.

Fixed.

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OK, we just watched the season 2 premiere.  Boy, it was an absolute delight to watch this episode after having listened to the episode album so many times beforehand!

 

Knowing the music ahead of time meant that as each cue started and I recognized what it was and what theme was playing, and could then immediately connect the music to the scene, was so much nicer then trying to figure out the music at the same time as just watching the show.  We're so lucky to have these episode albums!

 

And speaking of the episode albums, watching the episode made me appreciate again how good of an album producer Bear is.  Combining all the little cues for the opening sequence together into one track really works.  Taking that short cue for the first sighting of the weird people following The Stranger and Nori, and wedging it in between the "This Wandering Day" cue and the subsequent for the their final scene in the episode makes for a really nice track too!

 

Sauron's theme makes the biggest impact in this episode.  The many permutations across the prologue really aid in the storytelling, and then at the end of the episode his face is on the ground, and he's pledging allegiance to Adar, and you get his theme on harp.  Before seeing the episode, just hearing that on album, I didn't expect it to accompany a scene where Sauron is at a low point like that.  Really interesting.

 

Adar's theme was effective in the episode too.  For whatever reason, it wasn't a theme I latched on to much in the first season.  But I'd come to like it on the season and episode 1-3 albums, and now seeing it in context when he's around really helps me attach onto it.  I am expecting his theme to go through some cool stuff this season!

 

The title card music set to Noble Warrior was really interesting, and as I expected, it flows DIRECTLY out of the last prologue cue, so I'm kind of curious why Bear broke that continuation and made them separate tracks.  It was cool to hold Galadriel and Elron's themes in the horse chase until you saw their faces.  Then when we see Gil-galad for the first time in the episode and he's accompanied by his theme, I enjoyed knowing that I was hearing his theme.  But then I also had the thought: Wait, this guy was in season 1.  Why didn't he have his own theme then?

 

After a lot of orc and elf related stuff for the first third or so of the episode, it was so nice to get to see The Stranger and Nori and hear their themes.  Somehow, Bear is taking all the season 1 themes and immediately making them more interesting right away this season.  Something about the way The Stranger's theme was used in that first scene of his dream sequence really struck me.  Like the spacing between phrases was different.  It really worked especially when you realize it was a dream.

 

The hints of Rhûn were really cool and it makes me want to see what the guys in masks following them are all about even more.

 

Just based on listening to the albums, I had thought that the "Three Rings for the Elven Kings" / "Cirdain's Perfection" music was for scenes taking place at the forges, considering the forging theme was used.  So I was surprised to see it was for Cirdan showing up with the three rings after failing to destroy them, and them just putting them on and restoring life to the trees which symbolize that the elfs won't die now (or whatever).  It fit the scene really well, and then the bonus scene at the end of Sauron arriving at the forge accompanied by his theme sounded awesome.

 

Boy are we lucky that we get these episode albums.  If we only got the one album for the whole season, we'd be lamenting not having so much of the cool music in this episode!

 

As for my thoughts on the actual episode outside of the music, I'll post it in the other thread.

 

 

OH WAIT!  One other thing!  Has anybody analyzed the "Previously" recap that opens the episode to determine if its new score that Bear chose not to include on the episode 1 album, or if its all tracked?  I can try to rip it from the rear channels and/or use AI voice removal on it if we need to hear it better to determine that.

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Ok so episode two also started with a Previously recap, so I guess all episodes have it. Maybe they're all tracked music, had anybody checked?

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One of my absolute favourite moments so far this season is the choral passage that opens Forgiveness Takes An Age on the season album (0:00-1:44). I am looking forward to finding out what this passage underscores:

 

 

 

Karol

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It would make sense, given the percussion at the start, and it being a very noble sounding theme. Also, an Ent is just the sort of being to provide forgiveness :) 

 

In fact, in terms of character ideas I find it way more interesting than those wood blocks and woodwind motif Shore did for Treebeard. One of very few ideas of Shore's that I didn't think worked that great.

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OK so episode 2. It was surprisingly awesome to hear Khazad-dûm again once we got to their area from the map stuff covered by Sauron's theme to start the episode.

 

At some point I noticed that some dialogue by Disa was scored by Durin's theme; Is that theme basically used as both a theme for Durin as well as a love theme for Durin and Disa, kind of like how Arondir's theme is also a love theme for Arondir and Bronwyn?

 

It was fascinating to see the Rhûn theme used in full effect to showcase this new Cara Gaer location and the new wizard guy living in it, with the return of the Mystics theme as the moths finally reshaped into one of them.  BTW: Has the show actually called these guys Mystics, or is that a soundtrack-only naming?  The wizard dude just called them his acolytes in the episode.

 

The Stone Singers cue was nice to see paired with the visuals.

 

I completely missed whatever was happening on-screen when the unknown theme from 1:22 of My Name Is Not Halbrand showed up, oh well.  Overall, all the music in that track was SO effective in the episode!  I'm just loving how Bear has made the Sauron theme this creepy thing that permutating throughout everything going on, and also how it works so well for some of Halbrand's scenes specifically.  But the whole big cue for Annatar's big reveal was just awesome in context.

 

The final duo of scenes where Gil-galad sends Elrond and Galadriel to Eregion set to her theme, then Durin gets an invitation to Eregion set to the Khazad-dûm theme was a fun way to end the episode. 

 

Overall, not as much to say about the score as there was in episode 1 I guess.  Felt like a shorter episode too.

 

Hopefully will watch episode 3 tonight!

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11 minutes ago, Jay said:

I completely missed whatever was happening on-screen when the unknown theme from 1:12 of My Name Is Not Halbrand showed up, oh well.

 

I think you mean 1:22?

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I didn't say I enjoyed the episode, I said I enjoyed seeing the context for all of Bear's great music :)

I'll write about the episode itself in the other thread

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The episode 4 album is incredible, I'd say its the best episode album yet!

 

The material for Tom Bombadil, the Stoors, and the Ents is all SO good! The Barrow-wights music is fun too, and the grand return of Adar/Orcs at the end is killer.

 

I also love that the whole album is peppered with these brief little action moments that are are unique and fun, they really keep the momentum going through the whole album.

 

A major highlight is "Concerning Stoors"; The entire track is wonderful, from the way it opens with a cool new recorder (?) statement of Nori's theme (with the first two phrases spread out), then hints of Harfoot start at 0:37, then a fun up-beat passage leads us into the best part: Harfoot now runs from 1:58-2:48, which gets joined by the Stoors theme starting at 2:18, meaning for 30 seconds they both play at the same time!  It's incredible!  When Harfoot ends the Stoors theme takes the lead for the bulk of the track, until transitioning beautifully into a fantastic harp statement of Nori's theme to end the track!  These harp versions of themes this season are all so good!

 

What are your highlights!?

 

 

Here's how the episode album relates to the season album

 

01 Elves Embark (2:28)

  • New Music! {Eltrond}

02 Meeting Tom Bombadil (3:18)

  • New Music! {The Stranger, Tom Bombadil}

03 Concerning Stoors (5:11)

  • 0:00-2:18 = New Music! {Nori, Harfoot, Stoors}
  • 2:18-4:03 = 0:00-1:45 of "Concerning Stoors" from the season album, but a new mix that also includes the Harfoot theme over the first 30 seconds)
  • 4:03-end = New Music! {Stoors, Nori}

04 The Dark Wizard (2:26)

  • New Music! {Rhûn}

05 Eldest (5:35)

  • New Music! {Tom Bombadil, The Stranger, Rhûn}

06 Lair of the Barrow-wights (3:16)

  • 0:00-1:03 = 0:00-1:03 of "Barrow-wights" from the season album
  • 1:03-1:43 = New Music!
  • 1:43-1:58 = 1:03-1:17 of "Barrow-wights" from the season album
  • 1:58-2:10 = New Music! {Elrond}
  • 2:10-end = 1:17-end of "Barrow-wights" from the season album

07 Mud Beast (2:54)

  • New Music! {Estrid, Ents, Arondir/Bronwyn}

08 The Sûzat (4:23)

  • New Music! {This Wandering Day, Elrond, Galadriel}

09 Snaggleroot and Winterbloom (6:52)

  • 0:00-3:23 = New Music! {Estrid, Ents}
  • 3:23-5:07 = 0:00-1:46 of "Forgiveness Takes An Age" from the season album
  • 5:07-5:56 = New Music! {Estrid}
  • 5:56-end = 1:46-end of "Forgiveness Takes An Age" from the season album

10 Galadriel Stands Alone (3:47)

  • New Music! {Adar/Orcs, Galadriel}

 

 

The most fascinating thing for me was to realize that "Concerning Stoors" on the season album is not concert arrangement after all!  At least, not entirely.  From what I can tell, it breaks down like this:

  • 0:00-1:45 = the same recording as 2:18-4:03 of the "Concerning Stoors" episode album track, but a custom mix that omits the Harfoot theme from the first 30 seconds
  • 1:45-2:16 = very similar to 4:03-4:33 of the episode track, but its orchestrated differently, meaning its a different recording. So it COULD be an alternate take of the episode cue section.
  • 2:16-3:20 = this has no equivalent in the episode cue, and sounds like a concert arrangement style passage.  However, it could be from a future episode.
  • 3:20-end = this sounds tacked on, like this part could be the only part specifically recorded for the season album, maybe.
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Yeah, Concerning Stoors is kind of a concert arrangement of the theme, but then in the episode it seems to play almost exactly the same, except for that last part and some bits that are a bit different in orchestration. Something similar happened with Nori and the Harfoots themes in S1 in the track Beyond Our Wanderning which has some sections that are the same as the concert arrangements but with some bits exclusive to the episode albums. Same thing with the Khazad-dûm theme when Elrond enters the realm in episode 2 of S1

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So here's the chronological order of the season album, now that half the season is out


Concert Arrangements

  • 01 Old Tom Bombadil (3:10)
  • 02 Rhûn (2:35)
  • 04 Golden Leaves (3:18)
  • 08 Eregion (3:42)
  • 12 Estrid (3:12)
  • 19 The Last Ballad of Damrod (3:17)

Episode 1 - Elven Kings Under the Sky

  • 05 Cirdan's Perfection [0:00-4:53] (4:53)

Episode 2 - Where the Stars are Strange

  • 06 Stone Singers (1:15) - features more music than is used in the episode / episode album, and a clean ending
  • 07 Sandstorm at the Well (3:46)
  • 09 Emissary at the Forge  [0:00-5:31] (5:31)

Episode 3 - The Eagle and the Sceptre

  • 10 Shelob (1:48)
  • 11 The Pyre (2:28) - features a clean ending not available on the episode album
  • 13 The Great Eagle (2:57) - features a clean ending not available on the episode album
  • 05 Cirdan's Perfection [4:53-end] (1:37)

Episode 4 - Eldest

  • 03 Concerning Stoors [0:00-1:45] (1:45) - features a unique mix for the first 30 seconds as compared to the episode album
  • 15 Barrow-wights (2:24)
  • 16 Forgiveness Takes an Age (2:40) - features a unique mix for the first 9 seconds (extra drums)

TBD

  • 03 Concerning Stoors [1:45-end] (1:47)
  • 09 Emissary at the Forge [5:31-end] (1:05)
  • 14 The River-daughter (1:09)
  • 17 Candles on the Tide (3:40)
  • 18 Army of Orcs (4:11)
  • 20 Battle for Eregion (11:32)
  • 21 Durin's Bane (8:37)
  • 22 Last Temptation (7:11)
  • 23 The Staff (4:17)
  • 24 Old Tom Bombadil Reprise (2:19)
  • 25 The Sun Yet Shines (4:34)
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