Rings of Power Bear McCreary's The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings of Power (2022)

[Chen G. 4,767]

I'll shamelessly pickpocket Mono's transcriptions:

 

Same figuration, yes, but its essentially just outlining a minor third... I think where the comparison really falls apart is that the Argonath music is not actually Gondor music: its all music related to the quest.

 

I've seen people reference some other examples: there was a musicologist on YouTube who made a big case out of a similarity between the Stranger's music and one of the figurations from the early scenes in An Unexpected Journey (also the shot of the map in Fellowship of the Ring) but again it seems coincidental and, here too, that music is not actually Gandalf-y music in any sense so the connection doesn't stick. There are a few other examples that I can't recall: all unconvincing to me.

[Jay 40,201]

Episode 5 was again a joy to watch to hear the context of Bear's music.  Sauron's theme in this episode is amazing!  The angelic and mysterioso renditions in the forge as various things unfold there were sooo good, and then the action arrangement for the end credits is killer, and really gets you pumped for the last 3 episodes of the season!

 

The Rings of Power also has so many great variations, nicely paired with Durin III using the ring in Khazad-dûm.  I'm still not sure what to make of the Eregion theme, what it really represents, or why we haven't heard it much yet with so many scenes set in Eregion, yet the lovely arrangement for the Doors of Durin unveiling was awesome.

 

The Clydene Jackson arrangement of the Elendil/Isildur/Faithful theme was so great, it's just a shame it's for the death of a character I barely remembered lol.  The greater idea that the internal civil war in Numenor has gotten so bad people are getting killed is really felt in the music though.

 

I loved how Elrond's two quick scenes in the episode were accompanied by hurried versions of his theme, and Galadriel's theme just made it in to still only have 1 episode without it.

 

Things are really picking up and I think we're due for a lot of great music in the next 3 episode albums!

[Doo_liss 6,985]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Well, within the context of each score I think we're justified in seeking connections - up to a point - because at least its all within the same soundscape. Whereas between the two scores, that's not the case.

Well, I meant that a Dwarf related theme in this show, sounds like the Gondor theme for Gandalf arriving at Minas Tirith

[Knight of Ren 1,112]

The Clydene Jackson statement of the Faithful theme was quite emotional in context but I also really liked the solemn rendition in the second half of Gazing to Eressëa, as the soldiers salute Elendil after he quits.

 

Also liked the couple of renditions of Khazad-dûm's b section, as I think we only heard it a couple of times in season 1, so it's nice to hear it again.

 

My only small complain with the music this season is that I would've liked to hear more of Eregion's theme and also Sauron's b theme for Annatar! Just some small quibbles but otherwise, loving every second of it and really looking forward to the following episodes which seem like they're going to be big!

[Jay 40,201]

Hmm you're right, Sauron's b theme should be used more. Oh well.

[Jay 40,201]

Here's my prediction for which episodes the remaining season-album tracks are from

 

Episode 6

• 14 The River-daughter (1:09)
• 18 Army of Orcs (4:11)
• half of 20 Battle for Eregion (11:32)
• some of 21 Durin's Bane (8:37)

 

Episode 7

• the rest of 20 Battle for Eregion (11:32)
• the rest of 21 Durin's Bane (8:37)
• 09 Emissary at the Forge (6:36) [5:31-end]

 

Episode 8

• 22 Last Temptation (7:11)
• 23 The Staff (4:17)
• 24 Old Tom Bombadil Reprise (2:19)
• 25 The Sun Yet Shines (4:34)

[Knight of Ren 1,112]

And there's also the Last Ballad of Damrod, which I think will appear in some form, perhaps rearranged, in one of the remaining episodes. I think the song in full won't appear, maybe only in the credits, but we'll hear fragments of it when the troll appears again, like with the track Enter Damrod.

[Jay 40,201]

I mean, it's a concert arrangement, not an assembly of episode cues.

[Knight of Ren 1,112]

Perhaps I didn't word it properly. What I meant is that the song might probably appear in the credits of one of the remaining episodes, and that the Damrod material / motif will probably appear in the underscore of the episodes. Just like with Old Tom Bombadil.

[Jay 40,201]

Well yeah, of course!

[paleo 74]

On 13/09/2024 at 12:27 PM, Laserschwert said:

I've ordered it from the Mondo website when the boxset first went online, and with shipping and customs it cost well over €200 to Germany. Still, it's a beautiful set.

Indeed. I didn't even buy all the individual albums digitally, so it would still be worth it. It is definitely impossible to import from Amazon.com to Germany directly, at least at the moment. Anyway, I could finally buy episode four's album. If only I were at home to listen to it ;-)

[ChrisAfonso 204]

On 13/09/2024 at 11:22 PM, Chen G. said:

 

Same figuration, yes, but its essentially just outlining a minor third... I think where the comparison really falls apart is that the Argonath music is not actually Gondor music: its all music related to the quest.

 

I might have forgotten a connection there (It's been a while since I've listened to the trilogy/read the DA book), but isn't the melody from Shore's cue a one-off for that scene? In that case, what it's related to might be in the eye of the beholder, but for me it always was mainly connected to the Argonath, and therefore by extension the Faithful faction of Numenor (as the choir sings the actual words from Tolkien that Elendil speaks upon first setting foot on Middle-Earth).

[Chen G. 4,767]

1 hour ago, ChrisAfonso said:

isn't the melody from Shore's cue a one-off for that scene?

 

On his videos, Monoverantus analyses it as an offshot of the theme that Doug calls "The Journey There." I think that's more pertinent than to think of it as a "one-off."

 

 

[Doo_liss 6,985]

Oooh, never thought of it that way, makes sense.

[ChrisAfonso 204]

Interesting, I never made that "The Journey There" connection! Though I find all the 1-1 "definitions" of the harmonic progressions underneath the theme a bit stretched... As in many cases, I think the simple nature of a lot of the motifs make it easy to find them everywhere, as many times where it's by design as where it's by chance.

[Chen G. 4,767]

12 minutes ago, ChrisAfonso said:

I think the simple nature of a lot of the motifs make it easy to find them everywhere, as many times where it's by design as where it's by chance.

 

And I would argue that, if Shore builds a lot of his material on simple building-blocks he does so precisely because they ARE so basic. If Warren Darcy can go through the score of the Ring and link every minor second appoggiatura with Alberich's cries of woe from the first scene, then I think we're more than justified in doing the same here.

[Tydirium 1,417]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

And I would argue that, if Shore builds a lot of his material on simple building-blocks he does so precisely because they ARE so basic. If Warren Darcy can go through the score of the Ring and link every minor second appoggiatura with Alberich's cries of woe from the first scene, then I think we're more than justified in doing the same here.

 

Justified in doing so in another thread. Do you ever write any comments about Bear’s music itself? Virtually every single comment of yours here (as well as your latest comment in the ROP themes thread) involves Shore.

[Chen G. 4,767]

Come on, I was quoted...

 

I'm not one of those who constantly comes to these threads to spoil y'all's fun. I like Bear's score as much as the next man.

[Monoverantus 563]

Some housekeeping...

On 13/09/2024 at 11:22 PM, Chen G. said:

I'll shamelessly pickpocket Mono's transcriptions:

Those were Chris's transcriptions, not mine.

15 hours ago, ChrisAfonso said:

Interesting, I never made that "The Journey There" connection! Though I find all the 1-1 "definitions" of the harmonic progressions underneath the theme a bit stretched... As in many cases, I think the simple nature of a lot of the motifs make it easy to find them everywhere, as many times where it's by design as where it's by chance.

Yeah, I was maybe a bit over-zealous in certain connections with these (particularly the oldest) videos. I don't actually think every Mt Doom progression is a deliberate hint to the Mt Doom theme (but I do think they stand as a decent reference to The Journey There in this scene), or that every 2 minor chords a half-step apart is a hint at the Ring theme. Yet there is an elegance to the fact that the Ring theme is sort of anticipated by similar harmonic movements in the build-up to its entrance.

12 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Virtually every single comment of yours here (as well as your latest comment in the ROP themes thread) involves Shore.

True, but also...

 

[Tydirium 1,417]

17 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Come on, I was quoted...

 

I'm not one of those who constantly comes to these threads to spoil y'all's fun. I like Bear's score as much as the next man.

 

Fair enough.

[Jay 40,201]

The episode 6 album cover is kinda silly lol

 

 

1. Celebrimbor’s Burden (4:39)
2. The Crown of Morgoth (3:43)
3. Accused in Númenor (2:35)
4. The Secret Fire (6:25)
5. Tempest of Bats (5:29)
6. Trial by Abyss (5:48)
7. The Legions of Adar (5:19)
8. Sauron’s Illusion (3:29)
9. The Siege Begins (2:32)

 

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2024/09/18/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-season-2-episode-6-where-is-he-soundtrack-albums-details/

[Holko 10,681]

But what a fantastic album it is!

[Jay 40,201]

Yes, the Episode 6 album is another winner!

 

By far the highlight track is "The Secret Fire", which seamlessly weaves the Tom Bombadil, Rhûn, Stoors, Nori, and Stranger themes into a charming 6 1/2 musical tapestry.  I'm sure the track is really made up of several cues from throughout the whole episode combined together, but it shows how good of an album producer Bear is to put something like this together.   "Sauron's Illusion" is another highlight track, seguing from Eregion to Sauron to a wonderful, long statement of the Rings of Power theme featuring its full B section.  It's awesome!  I'm pretty surprised that no material from either of these tracks made it to the season album!

 

The Adar theme begins to really come to prominence now, starting with a nifty variant of his drum pattern in "Crown of Morgoth" and culminating with action variants at the end of the album.

 

And speaking of variants on drum patterns, Númenor gets one to open "Accused in Númenor" and the main Númenor theme gets more defeated variants as the bad guys (?) seem to be winning.

 

Choir, choir, everywhere!  Choir opens the album, there's a cool new figure over the Khazad-dûm ostinato in "Tempest of Bats", some ominous stuff in "Crown of Morgoth" including some over the Adar drums, a nice statement of Eregion similar to its arrangement version to open "Sauron's Illusion", which also features an almost-angelic Sauron's theme.  The final action track is full of choir too.

 

Another slam-bang action finale indicates the setup is complete and the Siege of Eregion is going to likely make up much of the next episode and album!

 

Here's how it compares to the season album

 

01 Celebrimbor's Burden (4:39)

• New Music! {Arondir/Bronwyn, The Rings of Power, Sauron, Eregion}

02 The Crown of Morgoth (3:43)

• New Music! {Sauron, Adar}

03 Accused in Númenor (2:35)

• New Music! {Númenor, Elendil/Isildur/Faithful}

04 The Secret Fire (6:24)

• New Music! {Tom Bombadil, Rhûn, Stoors, Nori, The Stranger}

05 Tempest of Bats (5:28)

• New Music! {Khazad-dûm, Sauron, Durin}

06 Trial by Abyss (5:48)

• New Music! {Elendil/Isildur/Faithful, Númenor}

07 The Legions of Adar (5:18)

• 0:00-3:16 = New Music! {Galadriel, Adar/Orcs, Sauron

• 3:16-4:27 = 0:00-1:07 of “Army of Orcs” from the season album [note that the season album opens with a pre-peat of choir that’s heard later, isolated from 0:00-0:08, with the actual cue beginning at 0:06]

• 4:27-end = New Music! {Sauron}

08 Sauron's Illusion (3:28)

• New Music! {Eregion, Sauron, The Rings of Power}

09 The Siege Begins (2:32)

• New Music! {Sauron, Adar/Orcs, Galadriel}

[Yavar Moradi 3,106]

Wow, only ONE MINUTE of music from this excellent episode score made it onto the season album??? It didn't even get one full track?

 

Yavar

[Jay 40,201]

Yeah

 

#IDidTheMath

 

Concert Arrangements (22:46)

• 01 Old Tom Bombadil (3:10)
• 02 Rhûn (2:35)
• 03 Concerning Stoors (3:32)
• 04 Golden Leaves (3:18)
• 08 Eregion (3:42)
• 12 Estrid (3:12)
• 19 The Last Ballad of Damrod (3:17)

Episode 1 - Elven Kings Under the Sky (4:53)

• 05A Cirdan's Perfection [0:00-4:53] (4:53)

Episode 2 - Where the Stars are Strange (10:32)

• 06 Stone Singers (1:15)
• 07 Sandstorm at the Well (3:46)
• 09A Emissary at the Forge  [0:00-5:31] (5:31)

Episode 3 - The Eagle and the Sceptre (8:50)

• 10 Shelob (1:48)
• 11 The Pyre (2:28)
• 13 The Great Eagle (2:57)
• 05B Cirdan's Perfection [4:53-end] (1:37)

Episode 4 - Eldest (5:04)

• 15 Barrow-wights (2:24)
• 16 Forgiveness Takes an Age (2:40)

Episode 5 - Halls of Stone (3:40)

• 17 Candles on the Tide (3:40)

Episode 6 - Where Is He? (1:07)

• 18A Army of Orcs [0:00-1:07] (1:07)

Episode 7 or 8, presumably (43:48)

• 09B Emissary at the Forge [5:31-end] (1:05)
• 14 The River-daughter (1:09)
• 18B Army of Orcs [1:07-end] (3:04)
• 20 Battle for Eregion (11:32)
• 21 Durin's Bane (8:37)
• 22 Last Temptation (7:11)
• 23 The Staff (4:17)
• 24 Old Tom Bombadil Reprise (2:19)
• 25 The Sun Yet Shines (4:34)

[Knight of Ren 1,112]

Fantastic album! My favorites would probably be The Secret Fire and Sauron's Illusion with their exciting thematic interplay. And also, The Siege Begins is a banger, especially when Adar's theme comes in full force in the middle of it.

 

Also, love the appearance of the b sections of both sauron and rings of power, as well as the several renditions of Eregion, all of them which I feel have been sadly underused so far.

 

And it's funny that now Galadriel's theme seems a much more secondary idea than it was in S1, where it played almost every other cue.

[Jay 40,201]

Right?  Galadriel and Elrond have been largely absent this season after the first few episodes.  I wonder why the writers sidelined them this year?

[tomsmoviemadness 3,681]

Well, the characters feature a lot less in this season, especially Galadriel.

[Knight of Ren 1,112]

Yeah, that's true. But judging from the remaining music of the season album, both the characters and their themes will be much more prominent in the last two episodes.

[Monoverantus 563]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Right?  Galadriel and Elrond have been largely absent this season after the first few episodes.  I wonder why the writers sidelined them this year?

It's natural for certain characters to be more in some seasons than others. I appreciate the show side-lining Galadriel and Elrond (who we know will remain throughout the whole show) and giving more scenes to Celebrimbor, whose days (episodes) are counted.

[Jay 40,201]

True, good point.  But I wish we were getting more Nori and Stranger this year.  They feel like they've been sidelined too.

[Monoverantus 563]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

True, good point.  But I wish we were getting more Nori and Stranger this year.  They feel like they've been sidelined too.

I will decide what I think about Nori and the Stranger's screen time when I've understood what purpose they ultimately are supposed to serve in the show.

[tomsmoviemadness 3,681]

To my unexpected surprise "Eregion" is the end credits for Ep. 6.

 

Music inside the episode was fantastic again. Especially the final 3 cues!

 

And Bear was in the "Inside the Episode" featurette for Ep. 6.

 

Loved the insights about the orchestra tuning making it into the episode like Sauron is conducting it as his plan comes to fruition.

 

 

 

[Tydirium 1,417]

21 hours ago, Jay said:

07 The Legions of Adar (5:18)

• 0:00-3:16 = New Music! {Galadriel, Adar/Orcs, Sauron

• 3:16-4:27 = 0:00-1:07 of “Army of Orcs” from the season album [note that the season album opens with a pre-peat of choir that’s heard later, isolated from 0:00-0:08, with the actual cue beginning at 0:06]

• 4:27-end = New Music! {Sauron}

 

The Rings of Power theme can be heard at 4:42.

[Jay 40,201]

Yeah, haven't had time to go back and add all the things I missed on first listen yet.  Busy week!

[TheUlyssesian 2,590]

Popped in to say I'm very busy, have been at the Toronto film festival from 5th onwards and now am on personal travel. I actually haven't even seen epsidoes 4, 5 or 6 yet or had a chance to hear the albums. I will only be able to get to them on Sunday or later and then should be able to track eps 7 and 8 in real time. 

 

Can't wait to check out 4, 5, 6 come back here and read everything. You guys make this fun!

[Jay 40,201]

I'd love to hear about what movies you've seen at TIFF over in the 2024 films thread!

[Knight of Ren 1,112]

Similar thing here, haha! I'll be at a film festival in my country for the next two weeks or so, so I won't be able to watch the episodes and do my chrono breakdowns, but I will definitely listen to the albums whenever I can.

 

Also interested in hearing your thoughts about some of the TIFF films!

[Tydirium 1,417]

Whoa, the Rings of Power theme is heard at 5:11 of “Trial by Abyss” as well! So, that makes at least three appearances in this episode of the latter section of the theme (“In the land of Mordor…”).

[TolkienSS 474]

On 19/09/2024 at 10:06 AM, tomsmoviemadness said:

Loved the insights about the orchestra tuning making it into the episode like Sauron is conducting it as his plan comes to fruition.

 

 

 

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's the sort of false creativity that I hate.

 

If I'm honest, I get secondhand embarassment whenever he talks about his music like he's catching lightning in a bottle.

[Richard P 4,368]

Read the room....

[Tydirium 1,417]

5 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's the sort of false creativity that I hate.

 

If I'm honest, I get secondhand embarassment whenever he talks about his music like he's catching lightning in a bottle.

 

“False creativity”? Actually not sure what you mean.

[A. A. Ron 2,059]

11 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's the sort of false creativity that I hate.

 

If I'm honest, I get secondhand embarassment whenever he talks about his music like he's catching lightning in a bottle.

 

Are you just completely unfamiliar with the concepts of marketing and promotion? Fuck's sake.

[Taikomochi 1,260]

He has to build his own hype if he wants to continue to get budget for the most expensive score of all time. Imagining not understanding that lol

[Richard P 4,368]

I'll be interested to read his eventual blogs on what sort of toll season 2 took on him, compared to season 1. With the shorter episode albums, together with not having to compose his entire thematic base from scratch, I get the impression he didn't have to write as much music this time around, but that could be a misjudgement.

[TheUlyssesian 2,590]

18 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's the sort of false creativity that I hate.

 

If I'm honest, I get secondhand embarassment whenever he talks about his music like he's catching lightning in a bottle.

 

Let's he honest - this isn't the greatest score ever written, but isn't it certainly the candidate for the most ambitious score ever written FOR TELEVISION? That we are getting a score of this magnitude and quality for a TV show is definitely some kind of lightening in a bottle. It definitely isn't usual.

 

You might not care for his score - but the context of his score is certainly noteworthy and why it gets so much attention.

[Stark 580]

It’s also a competitor for greatest television score written, or at least on its way to being a competitor. The more attention it gets the better.

[Jay 40,201]

OK so I finally watched episode 6 on Sunday.  It truly was fun watching all the music from the episode 6 score album in context!

 

I noticed that I'm pretty sure that episode's score album is in chronological order, that it seemed like all the music on it was used... and also that there were a few times were music ran right into each other that was separated on the album.  He's a really good album producer that doesn't just combine cues that happen to be combined in the episode, he combines cues that form strong tracks, and leaves stuff separated when its nice to be able to go right to the start of a certain piece.

 

The episode having some actual good Númenor scenes for the first time in a while made me appreciate the Númenor music on the album all the more.  I was kind of surprised to see that "The Secret Fire" is all contiguous music, they really put the scenes of all these characters in one section of the episode instead of spreading them out.  But boy, the music made all those scenes better than they would have been without it.

 

Both Sauron and Adar's themes really make an impact in this episode.  You really feel Sauron's power growing and growing all season through the music, and the long Rings of Power statement during his illusion was so good.  Adar's theme hitting full stride as he unveiled his legions, and then started the siege, was so good! 

 

It was almost shocking to cut right from a giant fireball heading directly into the camera to the end credits with the calm Eregion concert arrangement playing!  But about that theme, this episode really made me understand why an Eregion theme was needed, and why it's written the way it is.  As the place is about to be destroyed, seemingly, having this theme for its glorious, peaceful days has such an impact when Celebrimbor walks outside and sees it at its peak form thanks to Sauron's illusion.  The theme wasn't one of my favorite new themes before, but now after seeing the episode I appreciate it on a whole new level.

 

Boy, I can't wait for the next episode album!

[Doo_liss 6,985]

I wonder if Bear will compose a sadder variant of it as a Hollin theme

[Taikomochi 1,260]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

OK so I finally watched episode 6 on Sunday.  It truly was fun watching all the music from the episode 6 score album in context!

 

I noticed that I'm pretty sure that episode's score album is in chronological order, that it seemed like all the music on it was used... and also that there were a few times were music ran right into each other that was separated on the album.  He's a really good album producer that doesn't just combine cues that happen to be combined in the episode, he combines cues that form strong tracks, and leaves stuff separated when its nice to be able to go right to the start of a certain piece.

 

The episode having some actual good Númenor scenes for the first time in a while made me appreciate the Númenor music on the album all the more.  I was kind of surprised to see that "The Secret Fire" is all contiguous music, they really put the scenes of all these characters in one section of the episode instead of spreading them out.  But boy, the music made all those scenes better than they would have been without it.

 

Both Sauron and Adar's themes really make an impact in this episode.  You really feel Sauron's power growing and growing all season through the music, and the long Rings of Power statement during his illusion was so good.  Adar's theme hitting full stride as he unveiled his legions, and then started the siege, was so good! 

 

It was almost shocking to cut right from a giant fireball heading directly into the camera to the end credits with the calm Eregion concert arrangement playing!  But about that theme, this episode really made me understand why an Eregion theme was needed, and why it's written the way it is.  As the place is about to be destroyed, seemingly, having this theme for its glorious, peaceful days has such an impact when Celebrimbor walks outside and sees it at its peak form thanks to Sauron's illusion.  The theme wasn't one of my favorite new themes before, but now after seeing the episode I appreciate it on a whole new level.

 

Boy, I can't wait for the next episode album!

That’s exactly how I felt about the Eregion theme. It didn’t seem particularly distinctive, but seeing how it functions almost like a nostalgic echo of more peaceful/utopian times, it connects more strongly with me now.