Rings of Power Bear McCreary's The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings of Power (2022)

[Jay 41,825]

3 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

One thing that was interesting, because of the "drip feed" of having one album at time, the themes can grow on you, almost like characters in a show.

 

ABSOLUTELY!

 

I LOVED the weekly album drops and I wish more shows did this.  "The Orville" REALLY deserved this treatment.

 

The first season of The Mandalorian was awesome to get it, and a bummer that subsequent seasons went for the compilation route.

[Meredith McKay 7,674]

Just now, Jay said:

 

ABSOLUTELY!

 

I LOVED the weekly album drops and I wish more shows did this.  "The Orville" REALLY deserved this treatment.

 

The first season of The Mandalorian was awesome to get it, and a bummer that subsequent seasons went for the compilation route.

It would also be cool, if when they did it, they provided a "pre-order bundle" option, basically pay a certain price, and get each album as they come out.

[Richard P 4,684]

The other thing I will forever thank Bear for is dropping the albums at the same time the show does - not waiting six months after it airs in some pretentious move to get us to appreciate his album presentation. He's allowed us to choose when we hear his music. I feel more composers could follow this approach - decide whether you're happy for your whole score to be heard, and if so.... just do it.

 

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Powell)

[Taikomochi 1,319]

I also think the season albums are interestingly constructed enough to warrant keeping even with the episode albums. I prefer “Last Temptation” over “The Fall of Galadriel” for example, so I’ll be keeping both albums on my Walkman. 

[Jay 41,825]

Walkman?

 

~

 

I was thinking, too, that it makes sense that he doesn't want to include Alternates or unused music on these albums too.  Because any music that got recorded but then didn't get used, could end up being repurposed for another scene in the future. 

 

Maybe after the final season we can get a new album of additional music from all 5 seasons or something.

[Taikomochi 1,319]

They make Walkman mp3 players. It’s what I’ve used since I outgrew my iPod, and I don’t prefer to use my phone.

[Richard P 4,684]

50 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

I also think the season albums are interestingly constructed enough to warrant keeping even with the episode albums. I prefer “Last Temptation” over “The Fall of Galadriel” for example, so I’ll be keeping both albums on my Walkman. 

 

Yes, I think the OST representation of the last two episodes is really a work of art - a set of superbly arranged, edited and curated tracks.

 

I'm not so hot on his selections from the mid-section of the season. Shelob isn't a great cue and I never warmed that much to The Great Eagle or Barrow-Wights - far more interesting material elsewhere in those respective episodes.

 

It might be a case for me of trimming the season album a bit more and adding a few more representative episode tracks, but I'm not yet completely familiar enough with all the material to do that yet. One thing's for certain: Last Ballad of Damrod will quite possibly never be played again - the episode track is superior in every conceivable way.

[Jay 41,825]

I put together a playlist that matched the season 1 album length of being just under 2 hours, 40 minutes (so it'd fit on two CDs), that kept all the season album tracks but added in missing highlights from all the episode albums.

Sadly, I accidentally lost it before I could save it lol

[thestat 482]

Just very obsessed with this bit of climactic action scoring. The chorus is brilliant, but why; why the Bulgarian choir? Is Bear getting to something else here?

And it is the track on the whole season I liked the most, The Last Temptation, JFC, those violin runs would kill everything with excitement!

 

 

[crocodile 9,051]

I am getting a bit of a Na'vi vibe from that climactic duel, if I am to be honest. 😄

 

Karol

[Taikomochi 1,319]

I was thinking it reminded me a lot of “War” from Avatar. Maybe temp?

[Knight of Ren 1,244]

Been listening to the whole thing, including both seasons, and it's quite interesting to hear how some themes have developed, and even evolved in their meaning. Here are some random thoughts!

 

For example the Númenor theme now is much more closely related to Pharazon and his group of conspirators, than its used to represent the realm's might and glory, as it did in S1. And on the other hand, Elendil and Isildur's theme, while still representing both of them, is much more clear that it's a theme for the Faithful. It's used for Miriel many times, and when Earien betrays her family and gets closer to Pharazon, we stop hearing the theme that did play for her in S1.

 

The Bronwyn and Arondir theme was mostly a love theme for the couple, but after her death, it's only in used in such romantic variations when either Arondir or Theo remember her, but the rest of the times its used, is in action settings for Arondir, representing his rage and his quest for revenge. Similarly, Elrond's theme this season has been heard a lot more in action variants that it has been heard in the kind of emotional arrangement we heard in Return to Lindon, for example.

 

I also really like when a theme suddenly changes its main key to show something's not as it used to be, and this season it has happened quite a few times with the Khazad-dûm theme, Adar's theme, Sauron's theme and the Rings of Power theme. These last two themes in particular have been a highlight because of how many different variations they go through. For me the Sauron theme was a bit boring and repetitive in S1 except for a couple of exceptions, but this season McCreary has delivered in showing the huge versatility the theme really has. And the same goes for the Rings of Power theme!

 

And lastly, I wanted to mention the presence (and in some cases, absence) of the B section of the themes. We had several variations on the B section of Khazad-dûm, the Rings of Power, and of course, the Sauron theme, used to partially represent him in his Annatar form. But what is interesting is that there are still some themes which haven't had their b section used in the underscore, those themes being Galadriel, Valinor, Elrond, the Faithful and Eregion. I don't know if we'll get to hear them at some point and if they will have a certain purpose. What do you guys think about this?

[Jay 41,825]

It is funny that Estrid's b theme made it into underscore before Galadriel or Elrond's

[Meredith McKay 7,674]

I noticed there was a sort of descending bit related to Elrond that showed up a couple times, that sounded a bit Elmer Bernstein-y.

[Taikomochi 1,319]

1 hour ago, Knight of Ren said:

Been listening to the whole thing, including both seasons, and it's quite interesting to hear how some themes have developed, and even evolved in their meaning. Here are some random thoughts!

 

For example the Númenor theme now is much more closely related to Pharazon and his group of conspirators, than its used to represent the realm's might and glory, as it did in S1. And on the other hand, Elendil and Isildur's theme, while still representing both of them, is much more clear that it's a theme for the Faithful. It's used for Miriel many times, and when Earien betrays her family and gets closer to Pharazon, we stop hearing the theme that did play for her in S1.

 

The Bronwyn and Arondir theme was mostly a love theme for the couple, but after her death, it's only in used in such romantic variations when either Arondir or Theo remember her, but the rest of the times its used, is in action settings for Arondir, representing his rage and his quest for revenge. Similarly, Elrond's theme this season has been heard a lot more in action variants that it has been heard in the kind of emotional arrangement we heard in Return to Lindon, for example.

 

I also really like when a theme suddenly changes its main key to show something's not as it used to be, and this season it has happened quite a few times with the Khazad-dûm theme, Adar's theme, Sauron's theme and the Rings of Power theme. These last two themes in particular have been a highlight because of how many different variations they go through. For me the Sauron theme was a bit boring and repetitive in S1 except for a couple of exceptions, but this season McCreary has delivered in showing the huge versatility the theme really has. And the same goes for the Rings of Power theme!

 

And lastly, I wanted to mention the presence (and in some cases, absence) of the B section of the themes. We had several variations on the B section of Khazad-dûm, the Rings of Power, and of course, the Sauron theme, used to partially represent him in his Annatar form. But what is interesting is that there are still some themes which haven't had their b section used in the underscore, those themes being Galadriel, Valinor, Elrond, the Faithful and Eregion. I don't know if we'll get to hear them at some point and if they will have a certain purpose. What do you guys think about this?

Very interesting commentary.

 

I am fascinated by the way Bear’s usage of themes has evolved between seasons, and I think you are speaking to that. There’s a lot less of the grandiose, full-throated statements that filled season 1. I was re-listening to the first season and was struck by how out of place a cue like “Sailing into the Dawn” would be in the second. He seems to have focused a lot more on smaller, fragmented statements of the themes. It’s a relatively understated approach, given how loud season 1 was.

 

It honestly reminds me a lot of how Williams treated his themes, especially Rey’s theme, in the second and third Star Wars sequel trilogy films. He was more interested in digging down and exploring how he could twist and torture his themes than just constantly and loudly reaffirming them.

 

And I love the approach here! It gives season 2 its own identity separate from 1. I also think it helps compensate for the fact that the new themes aren’t especially dominant, not unlike The Last Jedi

[Knight of Ren 1,244]

Yeah, I like how he doesn't just rehashes what worked in S1, but tries to take his themes in new directions, and I think I might even like this season's score more because of that!

[Meredith McKay 7,674]

@VenomVeVenom Was this you on Twitter getting advice from McCreary?

 

 

[VenomVeVenom 196]

1 hour ago, The Great Gonzales said:

@VenomVeVenom Was this you on Twitter getting advice from McCreary?

 

 

It was!

[Knight of Ren 1,244]

The blog for episode 2 is up!

https://bearmccreary.com/the-lord-of-the-rings-episode-202/

[Jay 41,825]

Wow!  Really interesting fast about Stone Singers that explains why the Album version was longer than the episode version: It wasn't edited, it was a completely different take!  The take that suited the episode best was used on set when filming the scene, and the take Bear liked best went on the album.  Neat!

[Tydirium 1,428]

Sauron B theme officially identified as the Annatar theme!

[Jay 41,825]

Nice to know what the Eregion and Rhûn theme lyrics translate to, as well!

[Knight of Ren 1,244]

He also confirms that what we briefly hear at the beginning of My Name Is Not Halbrand is the B phrase of the Rings theme, but he doesn't mention anything about the Light/Hope theme that pops up at 1:21 of that track. I guess he will focus on it more when we reach episodes 7 and 8.

[Jay 41,825]

Oh yeah, good point.  Gotta wait 5 weeks to find out I guess!

[pete 1,072]

Jesus, he puts as much work into his blog as his music. I remember pouring over his Battlestar posts from years ago!

[Tydirium 1,428]

The abrupt harmonic shift and build-up of 8:00-8:11 in “My Name Is Not Halbrand” has always been one of my favorite musical moments of the season, but the realization now that he’s got the choir literally singing the name “Annatar” during it at 8:06 (with “-tar” landing on the downbeat/arrival of the Rings theme)… Just incredible!

[Tydirium 1,428]

Jon Broxton’s review is up:

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2024/10/15/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-season-two-bear-mccreary/

[Meredith McKay 7,674]

Quote

I composed a majestic new rendition of the Khazad-dûm theme, in which the melody rocketed forth from anthemic brass. Thankfully, I can always rely on the narrative instincts of showunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay, who immediately pointed out that I was not actually scoring the story at hand, but instead writing music for my fanboy feelings about this iconic Tolkien location. I laughed, and blushed, realizing they were correct. So, I set aside my new Khazad-dûm anthem (it would eventually return in “Doomed to Die”), and started over.

I found this interesting.

 

When I saw the episode, I kinda felt the revised version was kinda weird, as I never noticed the black smoke, so it felt a bit dark for that scene IMO.

Also, notice he repeats the same sentence twice:

 

The episode begins as black smoke from Mount Doom slithers across the map towards Khazad-dûm, foreshadowing Sauron’s influence.

 

The episode begins as black smoke from Mount Doom slithers across the map towards Khazad-dûm, foreshadowing Sauron’s influence.

[Laserschwert 566]

1 hour ago, Doo_liss said:

Also, notice he repeats the same sentence twice:

 

The episode begins as black smoke from Mount Doom slithers across the map towards Khazad-dûm, foreshadowing Sauron’s influence.

 

The episode begins as black smoke from Mount Doom slithers across the map towards Khazad-dûm, foreshadowing Sauron’s influence.

That's the joke.

[Meredith McKay 7,674]

11 minutes ago, Laserschwert said:

That's the joke.

[igger6 988]

This is pretty cool:

 

https://youtu.be/7sutxtjilSs?si=41r_3T558qfUxjip

[Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260]

I like this show and score alot.

[Yavar Moradi 3,459]

On 25/10/2024 at 10:06 PM, Code 000. Destruct. 0. said:

I like this show and score alot.

 

Same here. The score is much more consistently strong than the show is, though.

 

Yavar

[TolkienSS 485]

On 12/10/2024 at 11:53 PM, Doo_liss said:

@VenomVeVenom Was this you on Twitter getting advice from McCreary?

 

 

 

Your idea sounds more like Lord of the Rings than anything McCreary has written in this. Has distinct Shore vibes. The issue is the mix of the cello not the fact you're using one like that 

[VenomVeVenom 196]

4 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

Your idea sounds more like Lord of the Rings than anything McCreary has written in this. Has distinct Shore vibes. The issue is the mix of the cello not the fact you're using one like that 

Is your entire life dedicated to hating on McCreary? At this point it must be ragebait.

[TolkienSS 485]

11 hours ago, VenomVeVenom said:

Is your entire life dedicated to hating on McCreary? At this point it must be ragebait.

 

I post about once a week. If you perceive that as big as that, maybe your life is too much dedicated on this.

But no compliment then I guess from a fellow composer.

[VenomVeVenom 196]

14 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

 

I post about once a week. If you perceive that as big as that, maybe your life is too much dedicated on this.

But no compliment then I guess from a fellow composer.

You post about once a week, but almost every post of yours in these Tolkien channels is hating McCreary and his themes and praising Shore like he's God.

[Bilbo 3,973]

Shore is God. 

[VenomVeVenom 196]

1 minute ago, Bilbo said:

Shore is God. 

 

But you still don't have to hate McCreary at everything.

[Chen G. 5,080]

1 hour ago, VenomVeVenom said:

But you still don't have to hate McCreary at everything.

 

Absolutely.

 

I think we who love Shore love him enough that we don't need to put McCreary's work down in order to do so. Those that do have that urge are mostly professing at how frail their love of Shore's music really is, in that they feel that McCreary's work can at all threaten its artistic primacy.

[VenomVeVenom 196]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Absolutely.

 

I think we who love Shore love him enough that we don't need to put McCreary's work down in order to do so. Those that do have that urge are mostly professing at how frail their love of Shore's music really is, in that they feel that McCreary's work can at all threaten its artistic primacy.

Perfectly said. They're two different composers, of course they're not going to have the same style of writing. You can't expect McCreary to write exactly like Shore or vice versa. 

[Chen G. 5,080]

The only aspect of McCreary's score that does open the door for some criticism in terms of comparing to Shore is the associative use of similar timbres. That does create a commonality on the grounds of which unflattering comparisons can be made. Alas!

[TolkienSS 485]

21 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The only aspect of McCreary's score that does open the door for some criticism in terms of comparing to Shore is the associative use of similar timbres. That does create a commonality on the grounds of which unflattering comparisons can be made. Alas!

 

I find that for such a large filmic canvas, there is strangely little to really sink your teeth into as far as outright thematic splendor is concerned.

[Richard P 4,684]

Once upon a time we had a small band of hardy detractors, reacting freshly to the new project and whatever disappointments it brought them.

 

Just the one now, and he's very, very alone in his vocal views. Some people make peace with disappointments.

[TolkienSS 485]

22 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Absolutely.

 

I think we who love Shore love him enough that we don't need to put McCreary's work down in order to do so. Those that do have that urge are mostly professing at how frail their love of Shore's music really is, in that they feel that McCreary's work can at all threaten its artistic primacy.

 

No, actually. What bothers me is that Bear's soundtrack, while good, is artificially pumped into the same stratosphere as Shore's by the pure amount of PR behind it.

While Shore's music managed to do it on its own merits because literally nobody believed he could deliver that big.

I don't like the artificial nature of it. 

[Chen G. 5,080]

49 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

No, actually. What bothers me is that Bear's soundtrack, while good, is artificially pumped into the same stratosphere as Shore's by the pure amount of PR behind it.

 

Yeah, I get that. Heck, you'll find some people in this forum who find Bear's melodic language and late-Romantic harmonies more gratiating to the ear than Shore's massed orchestrations and triadic harmonies.

 

Having said that, for a television score it is pretty darn good. Muscular, melodious, lush. Is it perhaps a little cliche at this point? Yes. Do the associative timbres, which make you think back to Shore's score, posit it as a kind of pastiche? Absolutely. But at the same time, it is a very admirable effort.

 

At the very least, one ought to read the room.

[Bilbo 3,973]

27 minutes ago, Richard P said:

Once upon a time we had a small band of hardy detractors, reacting freshly to the new project and whatever disappointments it brought them.

 

Just the one now, and he's very, very alone in his vocal views. Some people make peace with disappointments.

Well the show is all kinds of awful and I think a lot of people just ignore it now. People who hate watched season 1 didn’t come back for season 2. The Mordor PowerPoint probably finished off a lot of people. 
 

But there’s still a lot of fans of the score. The same as there’s lots of fans of Kevin Kiner’s Star Wars work. Sure it’s not as good as the original stuff but it’s enjoyable for what it is. 
 

I’m sure there’s a few people who just hate everything about the show full stop. And they’re entitled to that. Just as the people who, for some strange reason, enjoy the show are entitled to enjoy it. Everyone gets to have their view. 

[TolkienSS 485]

9 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yeah, I get that. Heck, you'll find some people in this forum who find Bear's melodic language and late-Romantic harmonies more gratiating to the ear than Shore's massed orchestrations and triadic harmonies.

 

Having said that, for a television score it is pretty darn good. Muscular, melodious, lush. Is it perhaps a little cliche at this point? Yes. Do the associative timbres, which make you think back to Shore's score, posit it as a kind of pastiche? Absolutely. But at the same time, it is a very admirable effort.

 

I can see why it stands out against all other film music these days. Absolutely. But the contrast against most film scores that are absolute wastes of notes makes it seem more epic than it is imo. 

Shore stood out against Harry Potter, Star Wars, Horner ... What does McCreary stand out against?

[Taikomochi 1,319]

8 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Well the show is all kinds of awful and I think a lot of people just ignore it now. People who hate watched season 1 didn’t come back for season 2. The Mordor PowerPoint probably finished off a lot of people. 
 

But there’s still a lot of fans of the score. The same as there’s lots of fans of Kevin Kiner’s Star Wars work. Sure it’s not as good as the original stuff but it’s enjoyable for what it is. 
 

I’m sure there’s a few people who just hate everything about the show full stop. And they’re entitled to that. Just as the people who, for some strange reason, enjoy the show are entitled to enjoy it. Everyone gets to have their view. 

 

There’s having a view and then there’s trolling, constantly bumping these threads with the same off base complaints over and over and over and over. Plenty of good faith criticisms of this show and score, but what TolkienSS is doing is not that. No one is entitled to that. 

[Jay 41,825]

6 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

There’s having a view and then there’s trolling, constantly bumping these threads with the same off base complaints over and over and over and over. Plenty of good faith criticisms of this show and score, but what TolkienSS is doing is not that.

 

I agree.