Ludwig Goransson's Wakanda Forever (2022)

[Edmilson 4,925]

4 hours ago, Mephariel said:

 

I actually quite like Wakanda Forever. Yes the orchestra is diminished, but it is one of the few scores I listened to this year that does something really interesting with vocals across two cultures and as well as having very unique instrumentation. This isn't the typical epic choir like Balfe's Black Adam. 

Exactly.

 

These days, I might actually prefer a score like Wakanda Forever, who may not be easy to listen but still does some great, intelectually interesting things with its textures than another generic RCP-like stuff like Black Adam. 

[crocodile 7,060]

It's a real shame Rihanna's song is not on the score album because, for once, it absolutely belongs there. I might buy this track and add it to my playlist.

 

Karol

[May the Force be with You 2,031]

The two Rihanna songs and Con la Brisa should have been put in the album. I'm usually not a fan of mixing songs and OST but here it would work perfectly

[crocodile 7,060]

2 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

The two Rihanna songs and Con la Brisa should have been put in the album. I'm usually not a fan of mixing songs and OST but here it would work perfectly

But Con la Brisa is on the album. Or do you mean the other mix?

 

By the way, I did indeed purchase the 2-track Rihanna's single (as you can't buy it on its own off the compilation album) and added it as tracks 27 and 28. Which brings the running time to nice round 90 minutes.

 

Karol

[May the Force be with You 2,031]

I meant the other mix

[crocodile 7,060]

The instrumental version of Rihanna's song is actually quite a nice coda to my playlist. My understanding is that Goransson wrote (or co-wrote) this. Even if you don't like the vocal version this works nicely as a final track. To be honest, one version flows very nicely into the other.

 

 

Karol

[Jay 31,998]

1 minute ago, crocodile said:

The instrumental version of Rihanna's song is actually quite a nice coda to my playlist. My understanding is that Goransson wrote (or co-wrote) this. 

 

Wikipedia says:
 

"Lift Me Up" was written and produced by Ludwig Göransson, with additional writing from Rihanna, Ryan Coogler, and Nigerian singer Tems.

[crocodile 7,060]

I start to notice some thematic development within the score. There are at least three new themes. There's one for mourning and Shuri that appears in undeveloped 3-note form in He Wasn't There but becomes a much grander theme in Mama and then culminates in elegy-like Vengeance Has Consumed Us. It also appears in those cool synths in Wakanda Forever against T'Challa's theme that is soon joined rhythmic elements of Shuri's theme from the previous film. It looks like thar heroic material from the previous film doesn't come back until she assumed the mantle of Black Panther. I wonder whether there's a connection between grief theme and Rihanna's song. It's almost as if the main phrases are minor/major mode flipsides of each other? Despair and healing type of a thing.

 

There's an ominous motif for Namor introduced in Namor. In Let Us Burn It Together it plays against underdeveloped 3-note Shuri's grief theme.

 

And then there's another theme for the Talokan that is introduced in Sirens and then comes back in different guises throughout the score - including the two big battle sequences. The song Arboles Bajo El Mar is based on that theme as well. 

 

I am sure that I will discover some more stuff. This score is becoming more and more satisfying. 😀

 

Karol

[Trope 102]

When I first heard the song "Lift Me Up", the guitar melody that comes in around 0:47 instantly reminded me of 0:48 in Ancestral Plane. I wonder if this was intentional on Göransson's part.

[crocodile 7,060]

Could be. I need to revisit the original to check that.

 

Karol

[Trope 102]

I pitch shifted the portion of Ancestral Plane to the same key as Lift Me Up. I'm more convinced there's a connection now...

[Gabriel Bezerra 121]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:16 AM, SilentWraith360 said:

Hopefully Creed 3 is a great score. Ludwig has never disappointed me until now (Besides maybe Tenet but it’s definitely grown on me).

So... I have some news for you.

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/10/17/joseph-shirley-scoring-michael-b-jordans-creed-3/

[MaxMovieMan 74]

Yes I saw that but Joseph is a close associate of Ludwig so he’ll most likely keep the same style and themes as the first two films.

 

Or he’ll scratch everything and make it something brand new which I hope to God he doesn’t.

[JNHFan2000 1,561]

Book Of Boba Fett sounded like a Göransson score.

[John F 51]

I haven’t seen the film yet but curious anyone who has seen it notice anything major left off the soundtrack? 

[MaxMovieMan 74]

I think the album has essentially everything in the film. I didn’t hear anything new in the movie.

[Edmilson 4,925]

There is maybe one or two short cues that didn't get into the score album, but every major cue is in there.

 

That said, I was under the impression that Yimbambe! and Sink the Ship are a collection of smaller cues, and some of those may be a little different or shortened up in comparison to what's on the OST. 

 

Like the part that I mentioned here:

 

On 11/11/2022 at 11:14 PM, Edmilson said:

I specially loved the moment below (4:57 to 5:38):

 

 

I think it was much shorter in the movie, and a little obscured by sound effects.

[MaxMovieMan 74]

Upon listening to the score a couple more times I can say that I do quite enjoy the variations on Namor’s theme in the tracks “Namor’s Throne,” “Imperius Rex,” and “Yibambe!” His theme is pretty catchy and menacing during those statements. Also the Sirens motif in “Imperius Rex” with the choir is awesome. These Mayan culture pieces plus the soft guitar/harp of “T’Challa” are my favorite parts of the album and I could see myself returning to the tracks in the future. I guess that’s the benefit of repeat listening.

[crocodile 7,060]

10 hours ago, SilentWraith360 said:

Upon listening to the score a couple more times I can say that I do quite enjoy the variations on Namor’s theme in the tracks “Namor’s Throne,” “Imperius Rex,” and “Yibambe!” His theme is pretty catchy and menacing during those statements. Also the Sirens motif in “Imperius Rex” with the choir is awesome. These Mayan culture pieces plus the soft guitar/harp of “T’Challa” are my favorite parts of the album and I could see myself returning to the tracks in the future. I guess that’s the benefit of repeat listening.

I love how Namor's 3-note theme plays against Shuri's grieving 3-note theme (which he expands into the string elegy by Vengeance Has Consumed Us) in Let Us Burn It Together.

 

And yes, repeat listens are necessary. First, it is quite a sombre affair in comparison to the first score. Second, the score is more eclectic and feels scattered at first but there's lot of careful thematic development in there.

 

Karol

[Edmilson 4,925]

Apparently, according to some people on the internet, Disney digitally removed Namor's junk.

 

Disney execs looking at Tenoch Huerta's crotch:

 

[Edmilson 4,925]

This is a pretty good (and short) review of the movie:

 

 

[crocodile 7,060]

 

 

Karol

 

[crocodile 7,060]

I'm listening to the song album right now. It's interesting that Goransson co-wrote 14 out 20 songs and was somehow involved in the production of another 3 tracks (plus additional two from the Wakanda Prologue EP). You can hear some connections between songs and score in terms of musical ideas and/or instrumental colours so his fingerprints are all over this. And while a lot of it is an "inspired by" album and not necessarily my type of jam, I still find it interesting. There seems to be some thinking behind what normally serves as a brainless tie-in product, like someone actually crafted this. Definitely feels like it belongs alongside the score and is an intriguingly tasteful compilation.

 

Karol

[JNHFan2000 1,561]

 

[JNHFan2000 1,561]

I've watched the film again on Disney+ today. I still really love it, don't care what a lot of people say. For me personally it's an almost perfect film.

I wrote down all the cues that are missing from the album. It's not a lot and mostly short cues.

 

• Attack of Namor on the helicopter, right after "Sirens"
• Conversation between Ramonda & Shiru in the lab
• 2 short cues of Shiru & Okoye at Cambridge & in Riri's room
• Cue before "They Want It, But No"
• Aftermath of the bridge battle
• Ross & De Fontaine on the bridge
• Ramonda's speech in the throne room
• Ramonda contacts Everett Ross
• Nakia investigates
• Shuri is brought to Namor
• Boardroom scene with Ross (Reprise of the whistle in "We Know What You Whisper")
• Ramonda & Shuri reunited
• The Wakandans prepare for invasion
• De Fontaine confronts Ross
• Small cue before "Alone"
• Reprise of the opening of "Ancestral Plane"
• Before the finale battle
• Small reprise of "Warrior Falls"
• Ross gets freed by Okoye

[Luke Skywalker 1,505]

Saw the film yesterday.

 

I think the inclusion of spanish lyrics songs is bewildering regarding the subject. Arent the consquistadors deeds evil?didnt namors people hide before they were tainted by the spanish culture? It makes no sense either story wise or

music wise. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[crocodile 7,060]

That is an interesting point actually, never thought of that. I also find it strange the way people might use Slavic influences in their work. But then, does it make sense to use a full symphony orchestra in a historical film taking place before 19th century? I think Goransson is going for a modern sound of the region anyway with some historical touches.

 

What did you think of the movie itself?

 

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,505]

It was nice, bosemans desth was treated the best they could. But i think  as a film i prefer the first one.

 

the special effects were not specially good.cgi namor as a decade bad cgi. It seems that disney does not spend much on sfx lately, as in two months the film is going to be in disney + or

something…

 

i hope avatar 2 makes studios spend

more care in sfx.

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

That is an interesting point actually, never thought of that. I also find it strange the way people might use Slavic influences in their work. But then, does it make sense to use a full symphony orchestra in a historical film taking place before 19th century? I think Goransson is going for a modern sound of the region anyway with some historical touches.

There should have been quechua lyrics as they use african lyrics in some songs. Or english like rihannas (but that is more of less the same problem… but english has yo be there for most of the world. It would be a little pretentious to make the whole thing in aztec and african languages… like apocalypto or passion of the christ. A superhero movie does not need that….

[midgemania 39]

I have to say, I was enormously disappointed in both the film and the score. I suppose one can’t help but compare the underwater CGI with Avatar 2, but it really does look a decade behind or more. The most distracting shots were those featuring characters of the underwater tribe clearly being uncomfortable underwater. 
 

As for the music, I can only say that I appreciated how prominently it was mixed. In an era where music is becoming more and more buried under increasingly obnoxious sound design, it was refreshing to see a filmmaker repeatedly use music front and centre. It makes for a much more engaging experience.
 

Unfortunately, I found the music remarkably unmemorable. In Goransson’s attempt to create a more contemporary sound palette for the film, he fell back on the Anglo-American diatonic synth tropes that have so plagued scores by the plethora of Remote Control graduates. There are no new and innovative soundscapes or sonic textures to compensate for the fact that the music is unforgivably simple and repetitive. 
 

I’m generally a fan of Goransson but, for me, this was a misstep. An entirely forgivable one, but a misstep nonetheless. 

[John F 51]

“We Know What You Whisper” is such an awesome cue. Just wish it was longer. 

[A Farewell to Kings 3,786]

Disney+ has a documentary about the music for this.

[Jay 31,998]

Any good?

[crocodile 7,060]

It is only the first episode focusing primarily on the songs recorded in Nigeria. It was quite interesting actually.

 

Karol

[Yavar Moradi 1,788]

On 01/03/2023 at 1:09 PM, Jay said:

Any good?

 

Starting out I found it a bit dry, but as it went on it got more interesting. The next episode (out of three) is focusing on the guest artist collaborations for the Talokan/Mexico side of things, which I am really looking forward to because my favorite piece in the score is the utterly magical "Con La Brisa". And the third and final episode is called "London: Bring it Home" which I gather will focus on the orchestral recording.

 

Yavar

[crocodile 7,060]

The documentary series inspired me to create an extended combo playlist featuring 121-minute chronological presentation of the score (which is chronological on album anyway) with all the other songs appearing in the film appropriately placed within the musical narrative, and ending with instrumental version of Lift Me Up from Rihanna's single as a coda. Works very well actually as many songs feature a strong Goransson element, either in arrangement or actual thematic connection. While not normally my kind of thing, I find this eclectic mix of influences quite rewarding to listen to as a change from my normal orchestral film music comfort zone. And it all works wonderfully in the film too, thanks to great placement and mixing.

 

1. Nyana Wam (feat. Baaba Maal & Massamba Diop)
2. We Know What You Whisper (feat. Busiswa)
3. Sirens (feat. Vivir Quintana & Mare Advertencia Lirika)
4. Welcome Home (feat. Baaba Maal)
5. Anya Mmiri – CKay featuring PinkPantheress
6. Lift Me Up (Score Version) (feat. Joselyn Coogler)
7. He Wasn’t There (feat. Jorja Smith)
8. Namor
9. Love & Loyalty (Believe) – DBN Gogo, Sino Msolo, Kamo Mphela, Young Stunna and Busiswa
10. La Vida – Snow Tha Product featuring E-40
11. Limoncello – OG DAYV featuring Future
12. They Want It, But No – Film Version – Tobe Nwigwe and Fat Nwigwe
13. Árboles Bajo El Mar – Film Version – Vivir Quintana and Mare Advertencia Lirika
14. Lost to the Depths
15. Con La Brisa – Film Version – Foudeqush and Ludwig Göransson
16. Yucatán
17. Let Us Burn It Together
18. This Will Mean War (feat. Magatte Sow)
19. Namor’s Throne
20. Imperius Rex
21. Mama (feat. Jorja Smith)
22. Interlude – Stormzy
23. Alone – Burna Boy
24. Who Did You See?
25. Wakanda Forever
26. Blood for Blood
27. Yibambe!
28. Sink the Ship
29. It Could Have Been Different
30. Vengeance Has Consumed Us
31. Coming Back For You – Fireboy DML
32. Alliance
33. Lift Me Up – Rihanna
34. T’Challa
35. Born Again - Rihanna
36. Laayli’ kuxa’ano’one – ADN Maya Colectivo: Pat Boy, Yaalen K’uj, All Mayan Winik
37. Lift Me Up (Instrumental) - Rihanna

Karol

[A Farewell to Kings 3,786]

On 02/03/2023 at 2:25 PM, crocodile said:

It is only the first episode focusing primarily on the songs recorded in Nigeria. It was quite interesting actually.

 

Karol

 

On 02/03/2023 at 6:03 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Starting out I found it a bit dry, but as it went on it got more interesting. The next episode (out of three) is focusing on the guest artist collaborations for the Talokan/Mexico side of things, which I am really looking forward to because my favorite piece in the score is the utterly magical "Con La Brisa". And the third and final episode is called "London: Bring it Home" which I gather will focus on the orchestral recording.

 

Yavar

Did either of you end up watching the other two episodes?

 

what did you think?

[Yavar Moradi 1,788]

Haven’t yet, because we decided to cut down on streaming services for a bit. But will do as soon as we restart Disney+!
 

Yavar

[crocodile 7,060]

I did. It was really good. And while the series' focus is primarily on the collaboration between the artists as a whole, not only about the score, there is some cool stuff in there. It's nice to see hear Ludwig talk a little bit about Shuri's theme and how it evolves.

 

Karol