Final Frontier

[Melange 446]

Does anyone else here like Goldsmith's Star Trek 5 ????

I've had it for years now, and sure i appreciate its does'nt even come close to his ST Motion Picture masterpiece. But there are some really wonderful cues in that soundtrack. I think its underated because people cant let go of the association with the awful film. Its a shame because it never seems to be mentioned much.

My favourites Cues are :

Track 6 : An Angry God 0:53 - 3.01 ( i used this for a home video of a trip to Egypt. It was a shot where the camera pulls out from a zoom to reveal the massive temple of Abu Simbel with the seated Ramses II statues. Then it switched inside to gracefully explore the inner temple engravings with depictions of pharoahs and battles lit by this yellowish light while all that choral bit is playing. I did'nt plan it that way. It just so happened that when i got back , that cue fitted right in and suited it perfectly . It fitted the scene of antiquity and power really well. I could'nt believed how it suited it like a glove.

Track 2 : The Barrier I just like this a lot..big brassy and harks back to ST motion picture.

Track 1 : The Mountain 1:10 onwards. Beautiful and also powerful.

Track 4 : A busy Man Mysterious and contains the beautiful choir

Overall its a way too short soundtrack, and as far as track 10 goes...no comment :oops:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You forgot the best track of the lot, A Busy Man, the way the Klingon theme is interwoven in the "God" Theme is just brilliant.

Also, this score contains my favorite performances of the Main title theme.

as you said, it's no Star Trek TMP, but it's still a damn great score.

Stefancos- who's never listened to track 10

[Melange 446]

Hehehe. i just came back to put track 4 on the list.

And sure enough someone is there already to say "hey"

By the way, i'm glad you've never heard track 10 :?

[Melange 446]

P.S : I've never been a fan of track 5 though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

WHAT!!!...that's a great action cue.

Stefancos- confused. :?:

[Melange 446]

I dont know. It just does'nt do it for me.. hehehehe

[Guest]

"Open the Gates" reminds me of Total Recall. I like most of the tracks except for "The Barrier" and "An Angry God" and "The Moon is a Window to Heaven."

The rest of it is great. Really, all the Trek scores have been pretty good. TMP was neat because it really caught the Trek spirit. TWOK was great because it was an epic score by a fresh and then-original composer who would come back to make a not-so-epic-but-still-pretty-good score in the sequel to TWOK, The Search for Spock. Rosenman's score to The Voyage Home was the worst of the 9 released films (SOON TO BE 10!), which was still better than a lot of other scores. It was bad because it didn't have much of an epic sound to it outside of the main theme. The Final Frontier, I've already mentioned. The Undiscovered Country DID have an epic sound, which is why it isn't the worst, by far. Generations is one that a lot of folks don't like, but I think it's perfectly fine. Dennis McCarthy does good work outside of the serials (with the exception of the last season of TNG and maybe a handful of TNG episodes before that). The DS9 theme was even pretty decent of a listen (before our socks were knocked off by Jerry with the Voyager theme). Then we return to the Goldsmith "legend" established 15 years before First Contact. I've heard the complete score from FC and I think the father and son combination worked quite well for the film. Joel brought his creepy electronic sound to add to the already-creepy sound his daddy's been known to create. Then Jerry goes solo again and scores Insurrection, which is a mediocre score. Still a great deal better than a lot of other Goldsmith scores or the scores of other composers, but it just lacks the oomph that FC had. From "Riker Maneuver" on (on the CD) are the best tracks from the score. The tracks before are pretty mediocre. Track 9 is really reminiscent of earlier Goldsmith work from the late 70s (a la Alien).

Given this streak of hearing good music out of Trek movies for 22 years and nine movies, I CANNOT WAIT for Nemesis to get here this December! (What will Jerry do for the Romulans?!)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

word on the street is that Jerry will rework his klingon theme for the Romulans because they are both aliens and both bad guys so hey why waste time developing something new.

Joe, being an ass. Hoping Jerry will try to not use any older themes. I wish he wouldn't even use the familiar main title. I wish he would be completely fresh.

[King Mark 3,624]

You forgot the best track of the lot, A Busy Man, the way the Klingon theme is interwoven in the "God" Theme is just brilliant.

Stefacos

That's the only cue I really like on this album.

K.M.Who thinks the best version of Goldsmith Star trek"march"is in the End Credits of STTMP...notice the subtle use of cool sounding electronic instruments.

[John Takis 206]

Joe: there's now way they'd LET Goldsmith use a different main theme at this point! It's become synonymous with the franchise.

We'll see ... the movie will suck, but it will have plenty of good action. I'm betting the score is better than "Insurrection."

And incidentally, "Star Trek V" is my second-favorite Trek movie score. Sheer genius! I cobbled together an "expanded" version from the DVD, but it doesn't sound very good.

Also, Trek V is the only score to give Kirk a theme.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

As a side note the Star Trek II, the Wrath of Kahn will be available Aug. 6th. This is a must dvd for me.

Harry. If you want a great James Horner cd get the Wrath of Khan score. I know you know little about Star Trek, but the music doesn't require any knowledge of ST, it will exhilerate a dead person.

And John, I know you are right, but I wish he would use it as minimal as possible. Lets face it John Williams got away with the same thing in Last Crusade according to most people here.

[King Mark 3,624]

And John, I know you are right, but I wish he would use it as minimal as possible.  Lets face it John Williams got away with the same thing in Last Crusade according to most people here.

actually the last Crusade has minimal use of the raiders march in the score,it's quoted only 3 or 4 times very briefly trough out most of the movie untill it's obliagatory full rendition before the End Credits.

And I don't think that Goldsmith overused his "Enterprise" theme all that much in any of his other Trek scores,a snipplet here and there.Only it's mandatory in all the End Credits,like the opening crawl music in Star Wars.

k.M.

[Guest]

The Enterprise theme's good for transition shots with an external view of the Enterprise.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We'll see ... the movie will suck, but it will have plenty of good action. I'm betting the score is better than "Insurrection."

Why do you think the film will suck?

And incidentally, "Star Trek V" is my second-favorite Trek movie score. Sheer genius! I cobbled together an "expanded" version from the DVD, but it doesn't sound very good.

But it doesn't sound bad either.

Stefancos- who likes all Star Trek films, even the bad ones.

[Guest]

Why do you think the film will suck?

Because I've read the script ... and it sucks!

[John Takis 206]

Oops. That last one was me. And the script STILL sucks ...

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

You forgot the best track of the lot, A Busy Man, the way the Klingon theme is interwoven in the "God" Theme is just brilliant.

Exactly. One of the most perfect uses of counterpoint in film scores ever.

Also, this score contains my favorite performances of the Main title theme.

What about the Klingon theme? And the mountain music in the opening is absolutely beautiful. This is one of Goldsmith's most Bruckner-like scores, so no wonder it's so great.

Insurrection is very underrated by the way. The official album isn't very good, but that's because the best and most varied stuff was left off. The boot is MUCH better.

Marian - who also enjoys all the Trek movies.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I read the script to but I have a different take on it than John Takis.

I thought it had real potential.

Joe.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I hope Joe's take is the corect one.

Stefancos- who likes Generations and Insurrection....a lot.

[John Takis 206]

I stand by my disgust.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=11815

Having potential and capitalizing on potential are two entirely different things. "Nemesis" WILL have great action sequences. It had the faint glimmer of an interesting concept. But the script carries NO emotional resonance and the internal logic is just stupefying. The characters and story are cheated in many significant regards. Frankly, Joe, given your views on "Least Crusade" I'm amazed you feel as favorably as you do!

Steef, I'm willing to e-mail you the script so you can decide for yourself, if you don't mind being spoiled. I sure didn't.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thanks John, but is Star trek X will suck, then i want to find out the proper way, around midnight in the Tuschinsky cinema in Amsterdam, surrounded by hundreds of other Trekkies.

Stefancos- who saw First Contact and Insurrection that way.

[Morn 8]

Hmm, Yoda. In fanfic maybe? Crossover? Hmm.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nick, your a trekkie, didn't you kind of flich when obi-Wan and yoda used the phrase Federation Starships?

And i'm sue i'm not the only one who noticed the similarity between some of Christopher lee's lines in AOTC and FOTR.

Stefancos- who also noticed the phrases "beamed" and 'Cloaking device" in the Star wars series.

[stewdog1 50]

TFF is one of my favorite Star Trek scores. The action cue in track 5 is one of the best Jerry has ever done. I love those horse whips in the music.

The thing about Insurrection is that the music had so much potential in regards to the main theme. Although I haven't listened to the boot yet, I should be getting it soon, I may change my mind. It is still an enjoyable score though don't get me wrong.

Oh yeah, Generations is a wonderful album. I don't know why so many people have a problem with it.

later,

stewdog

[Morn 8]

Nick, your a trekkie, didn't you kind of flich when obi-Wan and yoda used the phrase Federation Starships?

More like grin. Hehe, great choice of name Lucas

[ocelot 508]

OK, I'm guessing that when you guys are talking about the Enterprise Theme, you aren't talking about that drivel of a song in front of the new series?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I have to say that my favorite themes are First Contact and TNG. Both are great in different ways. Voyager had a great theme too but sadly DS9 didn't although it was a great series and an even better slate of books now with Avatar onwards.....

Ocelot

[Morn 8]

Ds9 has a great theme that beats voyager! Voyager is too... floatly for my liking Enterprise theme, listen to the end credits, there is the real theme. But I think they meant he theme for the star ship enterprise in the motion picture

[NeejaHalycon 0]

Track 1 : The Mountain 1:10 onwards. Beautiful and also powerful.

I wish there had been a single of that theme, or at least a release of how it was quoted at the end. Two minutes and twenty seconds is too short.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

DS9 had a very nice theme in the first few seaons, until they added that HORRIBLY DISGUSTING rhythmic thingy, which sounds totally out-of-rhythm. Still, even the original version doesn't come close to the Voyager theme.

Nick, your a trekkie, didn't you kind of flich when obi-Wan and yoda used the phrase Federation Starships?

I assume "Federation" referred to the Trade Federation.

And i'm sue i'm not the only one who noticed the similarity between some of Christopher lee's lines in AOTC and FOTR.

Not only the lines were similar, the intonation was, too. "You must join me, Obi-Wan".

Stefancos- who also noticed the phrases "beamed" and 'Cloaking device" in the Star wars series.

Cloaking devices were also used in the Zahn trilogy. And doesn't someone in the original trilogy say "no ship of that size has a cloaking device", or am I mixing things up?

Marian - who thinks the Zahn trilogy is fantastic and should be made into movies.

Night Crossing (Jerry Goldsmith)

[Morn 8]

The rhythmic thingy is good!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My fav theme of the Star trek TV series is the DS9 theme as performed in seasons 1 - 3.

Voyager is almost as good, atleast it's better then the actual series.

I offcourse like the TNG theme, but prefer the movie performances.

haven't heard McCarthy's theme for Enterprise yet.

Stefancos- who did hear the first 10 or 20 seconds of that horrible Enterprise song, but then had to run to the bathroom to upchuck his lunch.

[NeejaHalycon 0]

haven't heard McCarthy's theme for Enterprise yet.

I d/l some of the Enterprise soundtrack, assuming it wouldn't be worth the buy, and I was right. It's not even worth the space of 256 kbps encoding. I plan on re-compressing them sometime.

I wish McCarthy had used his alternate theme for TNG, but I guess I can make like all the other fanboys and blame Rick Berman.

Neej- who thinks Babylon 5s are the only good TV soundtracks

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I love McCarthy's music for the Star Trek franchise, and i'm sure i'll love his work for enterprise.

Stefancos- who's been listening to McCarthy's score to Emisarry, the DS9 pilot al week now.

[NeejaHalycon 0]

I enjoy most of his music, but he seemed to reach his hight with Star Trek: Generations, and he's never recaptured that.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

The rhythmic thingy is good!

But it's not even the same rhythm as the rest of the music! At least it doesn't sound like it is.

Marian - who strongly disagrees.

Superman

[Guest]

"Concentrate all firepower on that first Federation Starship." - Yoda, confused and senile, thinking he's in Star Trek: Nemesis.

Just for the record this quote is wrong. Yoda says "Concentrate all your fire on the nearest starship."

And it's VERY one sided to think that ONLY Star Trek can have a Federation. It is, after all, merely a word in the English language, not a Paramount copyright.

[ST-321 4]

As a side note the Star Trek II, the Wrath of Kahn will be available Aug. 6th. This is a must dvd for me.

It is already out on DVD - has been for ages.

Is this a new release?

[Morn 8]

But it's not even the same rhythm as the rest of the music! At least it doesn't sound like it is.

But rite of spring is not in key

And it's VERY one sided to think that ONLY Star Trek can have a Federation. It is, after all, merely a word in the English language, not a Paramount copyright.

That's not the point, Lucas choose a name that is strongly associated with another big sci fi series, big mistake I think

[Guest]

You got to be kidding me! This is a new! Special Edition ST: 2. Just like the special edtion ST: TMP 2 DVD disc set that came out. This will be one hell of a new viewing. Maybe even deleted ar alternate seens. Hopefully, thought it will never happen, an isolated score.

[Lurker 5]

Hopefully, thought it will never happen, an isolated score.

Paramount does not release isolated scores on there DVD's.

Neil

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

Maybe even deleted ar alternate seens.

As far as I know, it'll be the TV cut that has a few additional scenes.

Marian - who has read about those scenes but hasn't seen them.

[Uni 306]

As far as I know, it'll be the TV cut that has a few additional scenes.  

Which, since I taped the movie off T.V. back in the early eighties, was the version I grew up with. I was aghast many years later when I watched the original version on cable; I couldn't believe how much was left out. Made it feel hollow. The full version is the real masterpiece.

Star Trek V was an awful groaner, to be sure, but Jerry rose above the mayhem as usual and delivered, if not perhaps the best score of the franchise, at least a very noble attempt and some fantastic new themes. To begin with, this is where he first introduced the new, four-note motif he included in all his subseuent Treks; add to that the wonderful Mountain theme (yes, it begs for a concert version), "A Busy Man" - one of the gems of the whole series - and some good action cues, better even than is normal for Goldsmith, and you're left with a more than passable score. Good stuff.

- Uni

[Oskar 77]

Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan (Director's Edition) DVD

Disc 1:

• Commentary by director Nicholas Meyer

• Extended director's edition of the film

• Text commentary by Michael Okuda (co-author of The Star Trek Encyclopedia)

Disc 2:

• The Captain's Log (new, exclusive cast & crew interviews with Nicholas Meyer, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Ricardo Montalban, and Harve Bennett)

• "Designing Khan" featurette

• "The Visual Effects of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" featurette

• Original interviews with DeForest Kelley, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, and Ricardo Montalban

• "The Star Trek Universe: A Novel Approach" by authors Julia Ecklar and Greg Cox (includes interviews with the authors of "A Test of Character: The Kobayashi Maru Scenario" and "The Eugenics Wars: A History of Khan Noonien Singh")

• Storyboard archives

source: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...9588218-2263342

Wrath of Khan cut scenes are described here: http://us.imdb.com/AlternateVersions?0084726