Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Brónach said: also, give a name to the band. you know? that's always cool. I do wonder if this might catch on in the future for film composing teams. There's certainly many pop bands that always credit all their songs to the whole group, even though any particular song will probably have more input from one or two members than others. The indie band Grizzly Bear came to my mind first as an example. However, those bands are generally very egalitarian/democratic, whereas in film composition teams the main credited composer is probably more of a benign (or not) dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Film Composer and the Whatevers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Brónach said: Film Composer and the Whatevers. Hans Zimmer and The Zimlings, naturally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Didn't Zimmer credit some people as the Sinister Six for Spider-Man? blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 only The Seatbelts comes to mind sorry about the thread derailing. i'm actually interested in what JNH does. On 10/11/2021 at 8:13 PM, Yavar Moradi said: I don’t want the Schumann action theme reprised in this new series… I was never a big fan of that and I think it was mostly for Val Kilmer’s character anyway. But the gorgeous Elora Danan theme (based on an Eastern European folk melody) would make a ton of sense to reference I suspect… assuming she is an adult character in this. Yavar And would you, by any chance, know which eastern european tune this is supposed to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, Brónach said: And would you, by any chance, know which eastern european tune this is supposed to be? Yavar Moradi and Brónach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Thanks that's great Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 James Howard and the New Tons! WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted August 3, 2022 Author Share Posted August 3, 2022 So over the past few months after that Vanity Fair story, two things happened in the film music world in Hollywood: Nami Melumad was credited as co-composer alongside Giacchino on Thor 4 and now Xander Rodzinski has been given full credited on the later episodes of Willow. As I was on the road today, it occurred me: maybe those events are linked? I mean, after the VF exposé, Gia and JNH felt it would be fair to give more credit to their helpers? But if they did that because of the report, did this mean that they always had used additional composers without giving them their due credit? It's a horrible possibility for two (and maybe more?) of the most successful and beloved composers in Hollywood. I would hate to know that the music credited to JNH was actually written by underpaid, overworked composers while he collected all the glories and fame. OTOH, maybe the truth is a little bit simpler? Both MG and JNH got a lot of projects recently that would demand a lot of music, so they needed to use a team to help them get those scores in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 990 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 40 minutes ago, Edmilson said: OTOH, maybe the truth is a little bit simpler? Both MG and JNH got a lot of projects recently that would demand a lot of music, so they needed to use a team to help them get those scores in time? Bingo. Also, Melumad has already been credited as a main artist on key Gia projects prior to the article publishing, so it really couldn't have been influenced by that. JHN is a trickier one, since he did go for the RCP tactic of simply crediting the additional crew on the cuesheets for their key tracks and nothing more. But given I believe he already has had a history of only being partially involved with composing television series (the Netflix Series of Unfortunate Events), I think he tends to only be transparent with those particular projects. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,686 Posted August 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2022 JNH has mentioned recently that he doesn't keep the pace of composing that he used to, so especially if he's doing some TV which may require lots of music in not very much time, it would seem only natural that he needs more help than usual and gives due credit. But then if it's true that almost all major composers have teams, then really we should be blaming the Hollywood machine, which maybe makes it harder to provide proper credit, or doesn't want to for PR reasons. Edmilson, Brónach and HunterTech 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 4 hours ago, Edmilson said: So over the past few months after that Vanity Fair story, two things happened in the film music world in Hollywood: Nami Melumad was credited as co-composer alongside Giacchino on Thor 4 and now Xander Rodzinski has been given full credited on the later episodes of Willow. As I was on the road today, it occurred me: maybe those events are linked? I mean, after the VF exposé, Gia and JNH felt it would be fair to give more credit to their helpers? But if they did that because of the report, did this mean that they always had used additional composers without giving them their due credit? It's a horrible possibility for two (and maybe more?) of the most successful and beloved composers in Hollywood. I would hate to know that the music credited to JNH was actually written by underpaid, overworked composers while he collected all the glories and fame. OTOH, maybe the truth is a little bit simpler? Both MG and JNH got a lot of projects recently that would demand a lot of music, so they needed to use a team to help them get those scores in time? LOL at "possibility." It is not just a possibility, it is reality. Here is what Jonathan Broxton of UK Movie Music said about Xander Rozinski's involvement: "Rodzinski has been working with/for JNH for years, on multiple scores. This will be his mainstream credited debut - he's done some shorts but nothing I've heard. He has done some uncredited 'additional music' on Jungle Cruise, Raya and the Last Dragon, Crimes of Grindelwald, and some others, though. I don't know which cues are specifically his, but we've definitely heard his stuff before." People are still in the dark about this? I can't remember who the poster was, but he challenged me to name assistants that other Oscar winners besides Zimmer used on Oscar winning score or something like that. So I gave him a list. But I was incredulous the whole time. People really think all the Oscar winners besides Zimmer wrote every note of music themselves? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 990 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 That is so weird though, since JNH has fully credited others in the way RCP tends to do with most of their work. I can specifically recall finding the various cues others co-wrote for Bourne Legacy on ASCAP. So for him to not do it with what seems like his proper protégé feels rather suspicious (if unfortunately oddly common for mainly orchestral composers like Bear McCreary and Brian Tyler). That being said: apparently being the uncredited score producer for Crimes of Grindelwald effectively does make him the Balfe to JNH. How much does it suck when Xander can't even be in the front cover with that credit like Lorne does? Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted August 4, 2022 Author Share Posted August 4, 2022 In the film music community, there are two different and conflicting interpretations of what an additional composer actually does. The first one is nicer. The additional composer or score producer helps on tasks like adapting cues already written by the main composer to fit the new, changing cuts of a movie (which unfortunately is very common in Hollywood with its clueless producers and directors). The protegees may also write smaller cues that the main composer may not have the time to write while he is focused on the bigger, more important scenes. In short, the protegee helps the composer to finish the score on time, but still a large part of the music as heard in the film is the vision of the person with the "Music By" credit. The other interpretation, however, is much more depressing. The additional composer (or composers, in plural) are responsible for writing a huge part of the music for the movie (and look how I used the verb "write", not "adapt"). It may be based on "themes and ideas" the main composer wrote, but still he wasn't the one who did the majority of the work. The additional composers receive a tiny, well hidden credit who doesn't cover how important they were for the score - neither compensates them financially. Which one is true? Will we ever get to know? I hate to think that the scores that I loved from composers I admire (specially the guy on my avatar) were actually the product of they exploiting and abusing their team, who remain unknown despite being the responsibles for the cues I like. Honestly, if I find out that JNH was an abusive boss who doesn't deserve the "Music By" credit on his movies... I guess it'll be a while before I hear a score again. But I guess we may never know. That is the problem with these Hollywood big shots, they're too full of themselves to admit any wrongdoings. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mephariel 451 Posted August 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: In the film music community, there are two different and conflicting interpretations of what an additional composer actually does. The first one is nicer. The additional composer or score producer helps on tasks like adapting cues already written by the main composer to fit the new, changing cuts of a movie (which unfortunately is very common in Hollywood with its clueless producers and directors). The protegees may also write smaller cues that the main composer may not have the time to write while he is focused on the bigger, more important scenes. In short, the protegee helps the composer to finish the score on time, but still a large part of the music as heard in the film is the vision of the person with the "Music By" credit. The other interpretation, however, is much more depressing. The additional composer (or composers, in plural) are responsible for writing a huge part of the music for the movie (and look how I used the verb "write", not "adapt"). It may be based on "themes and ideas" the main composer wrote, but still he wasn't the one who did the majority of the work. The additional composers receive a tiny, well hidden credit who doesn't cover how important they were for the score - neither compensates them financially. Which one is true? Will we ever get to know? I hate to think that the scores that I loved from composers I admire (specially the guy on my avatar) were actually the product of they exploiting and abusing their team, who remain unknown despite being the responsibles for the cues I like. Honestly, if I find out that JNH was an abusive boss who doesn't deserve the "Music By" credit on his movies... I guess it'll be a while before I hear a score again. But I guess we may never know. That is the problem with these Hollywood big shots, they're too full of themselves to admit any wrongdoings. As Danny Elfman said, "Composers are arrogant *****. There is no doubt about that." But regarding JNH, are we speculating way too much here? There is no evidence that he abused anyone. We don't know why Rozinski was uncredited so many times. Maybe he was a huge fan of JNH and he had a specialty skill to offer, but JNH didn't have an opening at the time, so Rozinski accepted an uncredited position? It could be mutually beneficial for all we know. Maybe JNH wanted to credit him but the studios producing the movie refuse to pay for his service due to budgetary reasons? Maybe Rozinski asked not be credited because he didn't feel like his contributions warranted it. I know this is a left field example, but Zimmer went uncredited several times in his career to help out other RCP composers (Iron Man, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen). Obviously this is different because Zimmer was rich and obviously didn't need the credit or money, but the point is, people go uncredited for numerous reasons. Now, do I believe that the industry is full of people getting the short end of the stick when it comes to composing? Sure. But I wouldn't jump to that hypothesis immediately without some sort of evidence. HunterTech, Brónach and blondheim 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Bezerra 302 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 21 hours ago, Roll the Bones said: Didn't Zimmer credit some people as the Sinister Six for Spider-Man? That was the six guests if I remember correctly, though I also remember Junkie and Mazarro there, so I would have to check, though hans-zimmer.com list 11 composers for the score. 16 hours ago, HunterTech said: Also, Melumad has already been credited as a main artist on key Gia projects prior to the article publishing, so it really couldn't have been influenced by that. She was the main composer on Star Trek Prodigy, right? With a theme from Giacchino, same with that Seth Rogen movie... But have they shared the main composer credit together before Love and Thunder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Gabriel Bezerra said: That was the six guests if I remember correctly, though I also remember Junkie and Mazarro there, so I would have to check, though hans-zimmer.com list 11 composers for the score. She was the main composer on Star Trek Prodigy, right? With a theme from Giacchino, same with that Seth Rogen movie... But have they shared the main composer credit together before Love and Thunder? Yes they shared credit before. For An American Pickle, and Medal of Honor: Above and Beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 I'm pretty sure An American Pickle (the Seth Rogan movie) was more of a collaboration between the two of them. For Medal of Honor Giacchino contributed just four compositions, some more fleshed out than others (his Juliette's Theme is the best thing he's done in YEARS IMO!) and then Melumad did the entire rest of that incredible score. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 i listened to that score yesterday, and it is sooo good. The new themes, the implementation of previous material is fresh and not just cut an paste, the new material variations and the mix of old an new... One of the best MOH scores Drawgoon and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,346 Posted September 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2022 enderdrag64, WampaRat, LSH and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted September 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2022 EH: What do you have coming up next? I know you’ve got some orchestration projects. PK: Yeah, Willow. EH: Yeah. PK: So, Willow is incredible; James [Newton Howard] did a great job. We’re almost done. I think we’ve done seven episodes and we have one more to do. Then Xander Rodzinski took over for the last few. He used to be one of James’ assistants and now is off on his own and is doing an incredible job. It’s such a fun score. It’s just big lovely fantasy music and a lot of nods to Horner. The danger motif definitely comes in a few times, and all his thematic ideas from Willow are in there too. It’s been really surreal sometimes because it’s a score that I grew up on as a child, and to suddenly be hearing the “Madmartigan Theme” over everything, it’s pretty neat. https://filmscoremonthly.com/fsmonline/story.cfm?maID=8380&issueID=214&page=3 WampaRat, BrotherSound, Yavar Moradi and 6 others 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 Oh wow, I really can't wait for this score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,959 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 That sounds terrific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 34 minutes ago, Jay said: The danger motif definitely comes in a few times That is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,006 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 Sweet. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted September 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 8, 2022 PLEASE OH PLEASE release albums for each episode Disney! 🙏🙏🙏🙏 Im so thrilled to hear they’ll be using Horner’s themes. I don’t expect them to be omnipresent. But it’s nice to hear they’re acknowledging them. Raiders of the SoundtrArk, BrotherSound, Yavar Moradi and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 first clip with score LSH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I was just thinking about this show this morning. It's 2 weeks away and we don't even know how many episodes it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,006 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Hey, it's the song from another movie! Karol Raiders of the SoundtrArk and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 The number of woodwind solos alone give me hope for the future of film music. Thank god they didn't include an action scene, because then i'd have immediately lost it again. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 They had me at “Magic Marvins” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaaaackified 81 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 42 minutes ago, Jay said: I was just thinking about this show this morning. It's 2 weeks away and we don't even know how many episodes it is 8 episodes I think, JNH scores Ep 1-3 and Xander does Ep 4-8. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Ah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 Hopefully there'll be one OST album for JNH's episodes and another for Xander's. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2022 I’ve been hibernating for a while but just wanted to comment on how lovely the brief snippet of the score was in that clip. Hearing JNH take on Horner is a dream come true! Really hope we get a couple of albums for this (RoP reaaaally spoiled us! Lol) The acting seems …ummm…a little rough (was Warwick Davis reading from a cue card?😅) But I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. I’ll be watching this November 30th. Yavar Moradi, enderdrag64 and Cerebral Cortex 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 Just saw the clip. The JNH-ized version of Horner's theme sounds wonderful! LSH and WampaRat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2022 I can’t think of anyone better to be the musical heir of Horner for this story. JNH in full fantasy mode is pretty damn special. Sure there are other fantastic composers who would have done well. I’m just personally glad he chose to do this. Can’t wait to hear all he’s cooked up for us! Yavar Moradi, LSH, Trope and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Jaaaackified said: 8 episodes I think, JNH scores Ep 1-3 and Xander does Ep 4-8. I thought we also heard JNH was doing the last episode or two as well…Xander doing the middle three I think? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Wow. I can't remember the last time a mere one minute clip of score sounded so promising. I always thought JNH was a good choice for this so I hope it lives up to these increasingly growing expectations. Also... I hope that this Xander guy proves himself with this. Aside from that recent Light & Magic doc, this is the first time Howard has an assistant officially credited on a score. I'd really like to see a Powell/Sener situation where the apprentice proves competent in mimicking their master's style almost flawlessly. WampaRat and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DangerMotif 1,037 Posted November 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 17, 2022 So Willow has Davis back. It has Whalley back. Kilmer is back, in spirit at least, and Howard is back producing. What’s missing from that original DNA? James Horner’s unforgettable score, of course. Sadly, Horner passed away in 2015, but in his place, Willow has James Newton Howard, himself a legend, who specifically asked to work on the show. “James Newton Howard ... threw his hat in saying ‘I want to step into this,’” Kasdan said. “And one of the reasons he said it is because he and Horner had a history together.” As for the use of the theme, Kasdan and Howard agreed it needed to be used in the right way. “When we had our first conversation, I said, ‘You know, the movie is synonymous with this theme. People love it.’ And he said, ‘I want to use it, but I want the moments when it comes back to be impactful. I don’t want it to feel like we’ve cut together the score from the original movie and repurposed it every time we get into a sort of emotional jam,’” Kasdan recalled. “So you’ll find as you go through the [series], we use it very sparingly as an accent. And what James said to me is that as a friend of Horner’s, he’s confident that he handled it in exactly the way Horner would have handled a score that he had started out on. So I felt pretty good about that.” Yavar Moradi, JNHFan2000, WampaRat and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Gibster said: So Willow has Davis back. It has Whalley back. Kilmer is back, in spirit at least, and Howard is back producing. What’s missing from that original DNA? James Horner’s unforgettable score, of course. Sadly, Horner passed away in 2015, but in his place, Willow has James Newton Howard, himself a legend, who specifically asked to work on the show. “James Newton Howard ... threw his hat in saying ‘I want to step into this,’” Kasdan said. “And one of the reasons he said it is because he and Horner had a history together.” As for the use of the theme, Kasdan and Howard agreed it needed to be used in the right way. “When we had our first conversation, I said, ‘You know, the movie is synonymous with this theme. People love it.’ And he said, ‘I want to use it, but I want the moments when it comes back to be impactful. I don’t want it to feel like we’ve cut together the score from the original movie and repurposed it every time we get into a sort of emotional jam,’” Kasdan recalled. “So you’ll find as you go through the [series], we use it very sparingly as an accent. And what James said to me is that as a friend of Horner’s, he’s confident that he handled it in exactly the way Horner would have handled a score that he had started out on. So I felt pretty good about that.” Source? crocodile and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 So two of my favorite composers who also share the same name were actually friends? I want to know more about that! And I hope it's not just self promotion by JNH. Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Not just same first name, but same initials! Yavar ThePenitentMan1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Not just same first name, but same initials! Yavar James Newton Horner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 I didn’t say same last name. JH and J(N)H. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 One of my headcanons is that JNH chose to incorporate the Newton to his stage name because he thought people might confuse him with Horner if he was just called James Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Edmilson said: One of my headcanons is that JNH chose to incorporate the Newton to his stage name because he thought people might confuse him with Horner if he was just called James Howard. I'm pretty confident he was going by James Newton Howard long before he entered the film world. edit - Missed the 'headcanon' bit haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 35 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: I didn’t say same last name. JH and J(N)H. Yavar You said initials. Horner's initials are J(R)H, Howard's are JNH. 9 minutes ago, Edmilson said: One of my headcanons is that JNH chose to incorporate the Newton to his stage name because he thought people might confuse him with Horner and/or Howard Shore if he was just called James Howard. Fixed. Edmilson and Yavar Moradi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 34 minutes ago, Edmilson said: One of my headcanons is that JNH chose to incorporate the Newton to his stage name because he thought people might confuse him with Horner if he was just called James Howard. Like he just took one look at Leonard Rosenman (A Man Called Horse) and Laurence Rosenthal (Return of a Man Called Horse) and thought, “I’ll stick my middle name in there…” Yavar Tallguy and Manakin Skywalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Clockwork Angel said: Source? Looks like it’s from this article: https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/11/the-return-of-willow-and-how-its-staying-true-to-its-origins/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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