James Newton Howard & Xander Rodzinski - WILLOW (2022)

[WampaRat 1,105]

To think Horner could have potentially scored both of those projects 😢

[Edmilson 7,434]

3 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Warning!!!!

 

One of the best cues from the show, the castle fight scene in episode 1, is NOT on the album.

 

How the fuck did that happen? It has some exciting action material and great statements of Horner's themes.

I'm honestly angry about it

Maybe this cue was done by XR and will appear on the second album? One can hope.

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

I hope so, because it makes absolutely no sense to leave it off

[Thor 7,493]

7 hours ago, LSH said:

Mad that we get two scores released almost simultaneously which pay tribute to Horner. Danger motif in both too. Bonkers.

 

Yes. I only wish it were the other way around -- that Franglen could mess up the already messed-up WILLOW, and that JNH could add his greatness to the greatness of AVATAR 2.

[crocodile 8,000]

7 hours ago, WampaRat said:

To think Horner could have potentially scored both of those projects 😢

Do you really think he would have touched this series?

 

Karol

[WampaRat 1,105]

5 hours ago, crocodile said:

Do you really think he would have touched this series?

 

Karol

 Hence “potentially” 😉

Im sure he’d have been tempted if only to revisit and expand on a work that he was proud of. Or maybe just out of pride/vanity lol. 

 

 

[LSH 968]

5 hours ago, crocodile said:

Do you really think he would have touched this series?

 

"No, I'll stay dead thank you!"

[Edmilson 7,434]

7 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I hope so, because it makes absolutely no sense to leave it off

Maybe someone could ask JNH on Instagram? He (or his social media team) are usually very open to fans there. 

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Maybe someone could ask JNH on Instagram? He (or his social media team) are usually very open to fans there. 

I have sent a dm. So we will see if I get an answer

[Anthony 572]

This is really quite a disappointing album. "Succeed Or Fail" is the only real playlist-worthy track.

[Edmilson 7,434]

Just finished listening the album on Spotify. It's not bad, but anyone hoping to listen to more of Horner's themes will be disappointed. This is a very typical late-career JNH fantasy score, with parts reminding me of Raya and the Last Dragon, Fantastic Beasts 2 and 3, Jungle Cruise, The Huntsman: Winter War, etc. 

 

Maybe it is a little too long, with some uninteresting tracks? Secrets of Dumbledore suffered from the same issue. And if there are better cues from these first 3 episodes that could've been included, then it's even worse. Still, there are some good moments for those who like JNH in his fantasy mode.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I thank god the kasdans didnt make indy iv or v….

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

Willow album episode breakdown:
Episode 1: 1 - 14
Episode 2: 15 - 24
Episode 3: 25 - 33
Tracks are chronological

 

I also saw Rodzinski credited as additional composer on episode 1. So maybe he did score the castle fight and they decided to put all his music on a 2nd volume.

I can't believe they would not release the standout action track/scene of the first 4 episodes

[Edmilson 7,434]

I thought the tracks for ep 3 were the weakest of the album. Some good moments here and there, but definetly the OST's finest moments were in the first 20 tracks.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Is it strange to anyone else that this album is still not available on Qobuz (in the US at least)? Same goes for Franglen's Avatar 2.

[Richard Penna 3,684]

Listened to most of it in the car today and really enjoyed it - ultimately fairly standard JNH fantasy fare but rarely a dull moment.

 

Can't say I spotted anything obvious in the way of new themes but it flowed nicely as an album. Very strong War Water Horse vibes in a few places but that's to be expected.

 

Unfortunately 7Digital currently wants an outrageous £17 for lossless so I may just listen on Spotify for a bit and think about buying later.

[Jay 37,346]

54 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Very strong War Horse vibes in a few places but that's to be expected.

 

Wait, what? Why is that expected? 

[Richard Penna 3,684]

Because it's JNH in fantasy mode....? I'm just not at all surprised to hear bits of it sound very similar. Wrong film.

[LSH 968]

Do you mean The Water Horse? That makes a lot more sense.

[crocodile 8,000]

Yeah, some of his more pastoral writing evokes the same kind of feel. You can hear it in stuff like The Water Horse as well.

 

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,684]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Wait, what? Why is that expected? 

 

Oh, sorry yeah I meant Water Horse!

 

2 minutes ago, LSH said:

Do you mean The Water Horse? That makes a lot more sense.

 

Yes  

[Jay 37,346]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[DemonStar 57]

15 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Is it strange to anyone else that this album is still not available on Qobuz (in the US at least)? Same goes for Franglen's Avatar 2.

 

Both of them are up on Qobuz now.

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

2nd volume will release tomorrow, with music from episodes 4-6.

Unfortunately still no Castle Fight cue from Ep. 1

 

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/willow-vol-2-episodes-4-6-original-soundtrack/1663087998

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

Volume 2 Episode breakdown:
Episode 4: Track 1 - 9
Episode 5: Track 10 - 21
Episode 6: Track 22 - 35
Track 36 is either alt or for Ep. 8

[Edmilson 7,434]

JNH is credited on the cover for vol 2. I don't think he wrote cues for these later episodes though, he just provided themes and material for XR to work with. But I could be wrong.

[Mr. Who 919]

1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

JNH is credited on the cover for vol 2. I don't think he wrote cues for these later episodes though, he just provided themes and material for XR to work with. But I could be wrong.

JNH did episodes 1-4. Rodzinski worked on 5-8.

[Jay 37,346]

So this is an 8 episode show, and the composing duties were exactly split in half, but instead of doing Vol 1 of episodes 1-4 by JNH and Vol 2 of episodes 5-8 done by XR, they are doing 3 volumes consisting of 3 episodes, 3 episodes, and 2 episodes?

[Edmilson 7,434]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

JNH did episodes 1-4. Rodzinski worked on 5-8.

I know. The first album covers only the JNH-scored episodes and credits only him in the cover. The second album though covers the episodes that were supposedly scored only by XR, but the album cover credits both JNH and XR, which I think is because the former contributed with the themes that Xander used in his episodes.

[Mr. Who 919]

29 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I know. The first album covers only the JNH-scored episodes and credits only him in the cover. The second album though covers the episodes that were supposedly scored only by XR, but the album cover credits both JNH and XR, which I think is because the former contributed with the themes that Xander used in his episodes.

The first album covers 1-3 of 4 JNH scored episodes weirdly. The new album covers episodes 4-6 according to the cover so 1 JNH plus 2 Rodzinski episodes. It’s weird that they didn’t just do 2 releases 1-4 and 5-8.

[Laserschwert 475]

So you'd prefer them releasing LESS music? That's a new one.

 

The last episode was already an hour long, and I'll assume the final episode will be even longer than that. So it's good they are doing a third volume for those.

[Mr. Who 919]

6 hours ago, Laserschwert said:

So you'd prefer them releasing LESS music? That's a new one.

 

The last episode was already an hour long, and I'll assume the final episode will be even longer than that. So it's good they are doing a third volume for those.

No of course not lol. More music is always better.

[LSH 968]

Pay-checks and loyalty aside, why do you think JNH accepts these trash projects?

 

 

 

 

 

/s

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

JNH only did episodes 1-3.

The credits in the episodes from episide 4 on is:

Main Themes By James Newton Howard

Music By Xander Rodzinski

Original Willow Themes By James Horner

 

So I think Howard is credited on the 2nd volume because his themes are used in pretty much every cue.

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, JNHFan2000 said:

JNH only did episodes 1-3.

The credits in the episodes from episide 4 on is:

Main Themes By James Newton Howard

Music By Xander Rodzinski

Original Willow Themes By James Horner

 

So I think Howard is credited on the 2nd volume because his themes are used in pretty much every cue.

That’s interesting. JNH said on Facebook how Rodzinski did a great job on episodes 5-8.

1 hour ago, LSH said:

Pay-checks and loyalty aside, why do you think JNH accepts these trash projects?

/s

Maybe he enjoyed the movie and wanted to score it but then he saw how bad the show was so he only scored half lol

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

1 hour ago, Mr. Who said:

That’s interesting. JNH said on Facebook how Rodzinski did a great job on episodes 5-8.

True, I honestly feel that Howard did a typo. Because Rodzinski has a post in Instagram where he said he worked on 4-8.

[crocodile 8,000]

Maybe it was simply his way of criticising episode 4.

 

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,684]

5 hours ago, LSH said:

Pay-checks and loyalty aside, why do you think JNH accepts these trash projects?

 

Either out of a sense of professionalism or he doesn't think they're trash.

 

JNH once said something about The Postman which implied he thought it was a terrible movie, but his job was to try to help it with music. In another case an interviewer mentioned Mumford in a negative light, and JNH pushed back and said he liked it. Who knows how often a composer finds their current project truly awful.

 

[LSH 968]

My comment was deliberately cynical but I get your point.

[mstrox 6,651]

Middling projects perfect for a middling film composer!

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

I asked Xander Rodzinski about the Castle Fight from Ep. 1 of Willow his response was the following:

"I did in fact write the Castle fight cue in ep 1, and I’m sneaking it into the middle of Volume 3. I abridged it a bit because I reused and reworked a bit of its material in the Sled chase in episode 7 that I think ended up being better, but I still have a five minute version.

I snooped around a bit and saw some people discussing this which is why I decided to put it on the album. I had already turned in album 2, so I had to stick it on 3. I’m very touched people enjoyed that chunk of music because I felt like I could barely hear it in the final mix of the show. Volume 3 comes out the 13th I believe by the way."

 

To be sure I asked if both the cues from Ep. 1 & Ep. 7 would be on the album. He said the following:

 

"Both will be on there because I cut out the overlapping material"

 

So great news!!!

[Faleel 5,346]

On 06/01/2023 at 8:49 AM, mstrox said:

Middling projects perfect for a middling film composer!

Life's too short to listen to JNH?

[Yavar Moradi 2,598]

Dunno what’s wrong with a bit of overlapping material here and there, but good news!

 

Yavar

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

I really enjoyed the finale episode.

It wasn't perfect or anything, but I had a good time.

 

Rodzinski composed some excellent music that I can't wait to hear.

[Richard Penna 3,684]

On 06/01/2023 at 12:46 PM, LSH said:

My comment was deliberately cynical but I get your point.

 

No, I get it, and I do think there are a ton of projects where I think he most likely does do it due to a working relationship or he likes the story, because the results don't suggest a composer at the height of inspiration. I'm not talking about this show, more a lot of the smaller, intimate dramas he does which feel like basically anyone could have scored them.

 

On 07/01/2023 at 8:34 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Dunno what’s wrong with a bit of overlapping material here and there, but good news!

 

Yavar

 

It's one of his first releases properly under his name - I can see some major overthinking in choosing what to release, and if he thinks he did that part better in another cue, he might decide he doesn't want to release it as it's not him as his best.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I wonder what interest jnh had in this series if the source material and horner legacy homage is practically nonexistant.

 

 

[HunterTech 989]

Maintaining his relationship with Disney is a possibility here, since it's easy to get cynical in thinking other studios would want to hire more from the RCP camp for every single thing as the years pass by, so a safety net would definitely be nice for someone like him. I don't sincerely feel it to be the case, but I figured I'd mention it before someone else says it in even less charitable terms.

 

I personally think he probably thought this was a good opportunity for Xander to make an impression on the mainstream after helping out on his last few projects. A famous IP from a famous studio is definitely a good way to introduce yourself, so if anything else it gave them that particular chance at least.

[RuBen_Kenobi 19]

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I wonder what interest jnh had in this series if the source material and horner legacy homage is practically nonexistant.

 

 

The showrunner is one of the sons of Lawrence Kasdan, who has always worked with Howard since "Grand Canyon" including last year "Light & Magic" docummentary.

[Jay 37,346]

The Vol 3 OST album is up on iTunes NZ

 

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/willow-vol-3-episodes-7-8-original-soundtrack/1664542526

 

1. The Day Never Ends (1:44)
2. Breaking the Ice (3:32)
3. Zeb (2:07)
4. New Girl (1:54)
5. Scrambled or Poached (3:03)
6. The Mudmander (1:38)
7. Combat Training (2:52)
8. What Is Real? (3:08)
9. Getting Close (1:40)
10. Admissions (3:09)
11. Not Worthy (1:54)
12. Courtyard Attack (5:22)
13. How Far We’d Go (2:45)
14. Not How This Ends (3:41)
15. Harbinger (2:46)
16. Bigger Than Anything (1:57)
17. Loyal (1:35)
18. Into the Light (1:39)
19. This Can’t Be Real (1:54)
20. Try Harder! (1:29)
21. The Wyrm (3:15)
22. Remember Who You Are (1:50)
23. Your Own Path (1:03)
24. Help Arrives (3:50)
25. Facing Off (5:05)
26. Last Gasp (2:39)
27. The Most Powerful Thing in the Universe (2:18)
28. Closing Chapter (2:50)

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

Full episode breakdown + I added where Horner is heard and where Howard is heard in Rodzinski's music

 

Episode 1

Spoiler

1. Hidden Away (contains themes by James Horner)
2. One Day
3. A Reputation
4. Until That Day
5. Castle Romances
6. Courtyard Attack (from Volume 3, contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
7. I'll Go (contains themes by James Horner)
8. Succeed Or Fail
9. Campfire
10. What Happened To Elora?
11. Abandoned Post
12. Crossing The Barrier
13. Vigilant (contains themes by James Horner)
14. Royal Heirs
15. Last Best Hope (contains themes by James Horner)

 

Episode 2

Spoiler

1. This Is Where We Live
2. Consulting The Bones
3. Revealed
4. She Needs Our Help (contains themes by James Horner)
5. Nelwyn Village (contains themes by James Horner)
6. I Need You
7. Treasure Hunter
8. Focus
9. You Are Extraordinary
10. Dark Vision

 

Episode 3

Spoiler

1. Epic Tales
2. You're Not Yourself
3. Outnumbered
4. The Veil
5. The Mark
6. Less Then Honorable
7. Indestructible Magic Armor
8. Back In The Wagon
9. You Did Good

 

Episode 4

Spoiler

1. Grandma's House (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
2. Evil Goo (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
3. Hello Lovely
4. Voices
5. Visions (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
6. Compounding Issues (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
7. The High Tower (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
8. No Recipe (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
9. I Never Doubted You (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)

 

Episode 5

Spoiler

1. Butterflies (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
2. The Wrong Hands
3. Scorpia
4. Brownies! (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
5. Escape Tales
6. One Ones Left (contains themes by James Horner)
7. Bone Reaver Brawl (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
8. Truly Live! (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
9. Returned
10. Advice
11. Wanting To Say (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
12. Party's Over (contains themes by James Newton Howard)

 

Episode 6

Spoiler

1. Passing The Time (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
2. A Fine Welcome
3. Manners (containsnthemes by James Horner)
4. Cliff Creeping (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
5. Gesundheit!
6. Betrayed (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
7. Fire Up The Troops (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
8. Missing Him (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
9. Search For Wiggleheim (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
10. Prodigious Noggin
11. A Family Heirloom (containsmthemes by James Newton Howard & James Newton Howard)
12. Showdown (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
13. What Matters Most (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
14. He Chose You (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)

 

Episode 7

Spoiler

1. The Day Never Ends (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
2. Breaking The Ice (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
3. Zeb
4. New Girl
5. Scrambled Or Roasted (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
6. The Mudmander
7. Combat Training (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
8. What Is Real?
9. Getting Close (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
10. Admissions (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
11. Not Worthy
12. How Far We'd Go (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
13. Not How This Ends (contains themes by James Newton Howard)

 

Episode 8

Spoiler

1. Harbinger (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
2. Bigger Than Anything (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
3. Loyal (contains themes by James Horner)
4. Into The Light (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
5. This Can't Be Real
6. Try Harder! (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
7. The Wyrm (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
8. Remember Who You Are (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
9. Help Arrives (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
10. Facing Off (contains themes by James Horner & James Newton Howard)
11. Last Gasp (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
12. The Most Powerful Thing In The Universe
13. Closing Chapter (contains themes by James Newton Howard)
14. End Credits (contains themes by James Newton Howard) [This does not appear in any of the episodes, so it's best put here so the whole thing ends with a grand thematic statement]