michael_grig 471 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 I mean only the first approx. 01:30, not the music afterwards! So there are slight differences in each performance, hear for yourself: (The prequels all use the same recording - for whatever reason???) (TFA and TLJ are also identical?) 1. Personally, I like TROS the best because the reverb is so full and bombastic. 2. prequels 3. ESB 4. ROTJ 5. ANH BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,516 Posted August 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2022 Original by far. Bellosh, Edmilson, Tiburon and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post michael_grig 471 Posted August 22, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Holko said: Original by far. I can understand your nostalgia, but unfortunately this one has no power at all. And I always find it funny how in the film the Main Title Music slips by almost a semitone in the first second! Bellosh, Dave, Chewy and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,406 Posted August 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: 5. ANH MrJosh, Andy, MikeH and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 ESB on the OST for its mix with the Mynock Cave cue. Original, well thinked and well edited! GerateWohl and Bellosh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,516 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Just now, Michael Grigorowitsch said: but unfortunately this one has no power at all. It has a ton of power, much more than the prequel or sequel ones! Bellosh, Matt S., Chewy and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 By the way, can anyone tell me why both the Prequels as well as TFA/TLJ use the same recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 If I'm not mistaken the main theme of TFA was conducted by Gustavo Dudamel. The same recording was also used for TLJ. 15 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: By the way, can anyone tell me why both the Prequels as well as TFA/TLJ use the same recording? That's usefull laziness and it allows the opening crawls to have the exact same time... We save time and money. Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bespin said: If I'm not mistaken the main theme of TFA was conducted by Gustavo Dudamel. The same recording was also used for the two following movies. No, TROS definitely has a new recording. But TLJ still uses the recordings from TFA. But I don't know why. The Main Title was clearly also recorded during the TLJ sessions. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 I like The Last Jedi recording that went unused. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: No, TROS definitely has a new recording. But TLJ still uses the recordings from TFA. But I don't know why. The Main Title was clearly also recorded during the TLJ sessions. Well, I'm wrong! I just compared in Audacity and they used the same recording, but apparently TROS has just much more reverb added and a different mix! HA! Surprising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Bespin said: If I'm not mistaken the main theme of TFA was conducted by Gustavo Dudamel. The same recording was also used for TLJ. they didn't use his take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,511 Posted August 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2022 Great thread! My answer is ESB. The opening blast in that recording is the most impactful out of all the OTs. But it's also got a "We're back, baby!" quality to it which none of the other performances have. It's as if the members of the orchestra have waited years in anticipation to play the piece again. But there's also something just so fun sounding about it. For example that trumpet crescendo at 1:09, which sounds like: "Hey, look here everyone! I get to play this amazing note, and I'm gonna make sure the whole world can hear me playing it." Something similar happens with the strings at 0:26. For one, the strings sound a bit tighter than in the other OT recordings. But at the same time, you can almost hear the individual violinists grinning as they play that magnificent, sweeping melody, and giving it their all. I guess one analogy is, it's like a club at a school/university, who have their own anthem, and who come together many years later for a reunion and sing the anthem again, only this time they're singing it with added love and gravitas out of nostalgic feeling. The PT performance is my close second, mainly because of how clean it sounds. But that's the thing, it's a bit too clean. In some sense it's the "model" performance of the opening titles. You can hear each note clearly, but it lacks the soul of the OT (in my opinion of course). There's nothing that bad about the ST performance but I could never get over the mixing, just sounds a bit weird to my ears. One big issue is that you can't pick out the opening repeated notes in the trombones like you can in all previous recordings (OK, so you can hear the horn's counter-rhythm a bit clearer, but who cares about that honestly? ) Also, special mention goes to the banging timps at 1:04 of ANH. Would've loved to be the one doing that! BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM blondheim, QuartalHarmony, Chewy and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Loert said: Also, special mention goes to the banging timps at 1:04 of ANH. Would've loved to be the one doing that! BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM Oh yeah! Those hits are so cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,516 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, Loert said: But that's the thing, it's a bit too clean. In some sense it's the "model" performance of the opening titles. You can hear each note clearly, but it lacks the soul of the OT (in my opinion of course). Agreed, this plus the fact that playing Lego SW so much made me weary of it (hearing it for every PT level and every time you open the game) makes me want to put it low on the list, there's nothing too interesting about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Loert said: Also, special mention goes to the banging timps at 1:04 of ANH. Would've loved to be the one doing that! BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM They make the 1977 version my favourite *arrangement*. As for favourite performance, I couldn't pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: I can understand your nostalgia, but unfortunately this one has no power at all. Well, the orchestra used to record The Empire Strikes Back is a fair bit larger than the one used for the original... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 1/ STAR WARS 2/ ...er...well, that's it, really. Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Gibster said: they didn't use his take I hate these co-conducted scores, because at the end we don't know who conducted what cue (or a part of an edited cue) and if it's in the movie or just on the album... Confusion, I hate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 534 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Prequels A New Hope The Empire Strikes Back Return of the Jedi The Rise of Skywalker The Force Awakens This is based on performance. The mix list would probably be different. Prequels is only just above A New Hope, the performance in both is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,118 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 You just gotta love the woodwinds swirling around here in Take 16. And how about that delightful, rarely heard two note buildup at the start instead of the singular blast? Take 17 sounds so jaunty and aggressive. I just love it. The timpani is fantastic here: I’ll always have fondness for Take 20’s cymbal crash opening, its somewhat relaxed but epic tempo, and the fact that it was used for the Radio Drama. Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Gibster said: they didn't use his take Do you have proof of this? Because when the album released they said they did, and even made a big deal about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,118 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 At the 1:00 mark on the ROTJ performance, that repeating high trumpet ostinato is mixed very prominently. I find that bit delightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,860 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 So the Prequels used the same recording? I always thought ROTS sounded a bit stronger and opened a tad faster than the first two. Did they use a different take for ROTS or is it just mixed differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Brando said: So the Prequels used the same recording? I always thought ROTS sounded a bit stronger and opened a tad faster than the first two. Did they use a different take for ROTS or is it just mixed differently? Each of the prequels use the same set of recordings, but the takes are mixed around differently for each film. The very openings for each film do use the same take though, I just checked and they all phase together. The mixing is of course different for each one. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 6 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Do you have proof of this? Because when the album released they said they did, and even made a big deal about it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 907 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 My answer for every question is always "The Empire Strikes Back" DangerMotif and Brando 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 961 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I like them all, honestly, but there is a muscle-y quality to the first one that I like. It feels very Flash Gordon, which is really what Star Wars was at that point, rather than fantasy. I've never been a big fan of the American Hollywood trumpet sound, or the American orchestral trumpet sound in general. Give me Bb's over C's any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Each of the prequels use the same set of recordings, but the takes are mixed around differently for each film. The very openings for each film do use the same take though, I just checked and they all phase together. The mixing is of course different for each one. U sure about the different mix? I can't hear a difference. Can you spot some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: U sure about the different mix? I can't here and difference. Can you spot some? Note that I'm using the original album releases as a reference, I can't speak to the mixing of the "demasters" as I haven't compared the main title mixes yet. For example at the very beginning, the brass is more prominent in the ROTS mix while the initial timpani part is nearly unhearable. But they do phase, indicating that is is in fact the same take. EDIT: I compared the "demaster" versions and they are pretty much identical. So they did use different mixes for the original releases, but for the demasters they were more-or-less copy/pasted. michael_grig and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 40 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Note that I'm using the original album releases as a reference, I can't speak to the mixing of the "demasters" as I haven't compared the main title mixes yet. For example at the very beginning, the brass is more prominent in the ROTS mix while the initial timpani part is nearly unhearable. But they do phase, indicating that is is in fact the same take. EDIT: I compared the "demaster" versions and they are pretty much identical. So they did use different mixes for the original releases, but for the demasters they were more-or-less copy/pasted. With "demasters" you mean the 2018 release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,516 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Yes, that's how we refer to those terrible messes. blondheim and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,354 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I have a deja vu somehow. Could it be that we are having that exact same thread about every two years? And why is the second performance in the end titles from The Rise of Skywalker not an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,467 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Would the VPO performance qualify at all? Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron007 43 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I'll be the first to say ROTJ. That brass section is beyond gorgeous to my ears. Manakin Skywalker and BB-8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,388 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 18 hours ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: Well, I'm wrong! I just compared in Audacity and they used the same recording, but apparently TROS has just much more reverb added and a different mix! HA! Surprising! Hm, to me the TROS recording is definitely different from the TFA and TLJ one. What did you see in those screenshots that make you think they are the same recordings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 hours ago, GerateWohl said: I have a deja vu somehow. Could it be that we are having that exact same thread about every two years? https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33432-countless-main-title-of-sw-poll/ GerateWohl and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 35 minutes ago, Chewy said: Hm, to me the TROS recording is definitely different from the TFA and TLJ one. What did you see in those screenshots that make you think they are the same recordings? I'm not a pro at reading this data, but I think the Spectrogram in these two sections looks very similar: Can someone who understands this better say if this is an indication of the same recording, or if it's just because it's the same piece of music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 There is only one way to compare two musical segment to know if they are identical (beware, they must be at the exact same speed). You can use Audacity. 1) Open the two stereo tracks. 2) Convert the first track from Stereo to Mono (the left and right channel will be combined). 3) Convert the 2nd track the same way. 4) Select the output sound of the first track to play on the "Left" channel and the output sound of the 2nd track to play on the "Right"channel. 5) Make your best to sync in time both tracks (they have to start and play at the exact same time both). 6) Listen the two sync tracks together using headphones. If there's a difference between the two tracks, you'll hear flying comets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Jay said: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33432-countless-main-title-of-sw-poll/ Okay, sorry but this poll is only about the recordings that were used in the movie, so it's a little different! 3 hours ago, BB-8 said: Would the VPO performance qualify at all? Really? The rhythmic problem from 00:20-00:24, the timpani playing too early (most noticeably at 06:00), and that goddamn overambitious piccolo that you can hear all over the orchestra (especially 05:45-05:52 and 06:00- end) !!!! And did someone accidentally drop a cymbal at 06:06? The score, in any case, says nothing about a cymbal crash at this point. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,516 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, Bespin said: There is only one way to compare two musical segment to know if they are identical (beware, they must be at the exact same speed). You can use Audacity. 1) Open the two stereo tracks. 2) Convert the first track from Stereo to Mono (the left and right channel will be combined). 3) Convert the 2nd track the same way. 4) Select the output sound of the first track to play on the "Left" channel and the output sound of the 2nd track to play on the "Right"channel. 5) Make your best to sync in time both tracks (they have to start and play at the exact same time both). 6) Listen the two sync tracks together using headphones. If there's a difference between the two tracks, you'll hear flying comets. No need to overcomplicate it like that! If you simply play them over each other and line them up almost perfectly, you'll hear the phasing problems already. Or you invert one track and line them up perfectly, and they'll cancel each other out. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I tell you the pro way, kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Okay, I did that: on the left is TFA, on the right is TROS: and I'm confused: at the beginning it syncs perfectly, then in the middle there are some differences, then they sync perfectly again, and then again not. So, I don't know now? Sb please help lol! 1166115110_MAinTitlecomparison.wav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 So it's not the same recording if it goes out of sync at some place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 But the first few seconds (00:00-00:08) are definitely the same, you can hear that quite clearly on the trumpet, right? Maybe they cut around a bit on TROS to keep the crawl time perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: Really? The rhythmic problem from 00:20-00:24, the timpani playing too early (most noticeably at 06:00), and that goddamn overambitious piccolo that you can hear all over the orchestra!!!! And did someone accidentally drop a cymbal at 06:06? The score, in any case, says nothing about a cymbal crash at this point. Despite all those valid problems you list...I felt that smile at 2:48. Those horns sound amazing! MaxTheHouseelf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: But the first few seconds (00:00-00:08) are definitely the same, you can hear that quite clearly on the trumpet, right? Maybe they cut around a bit on TROS to keep the crawl time perfect? Try my left/right channel way of comparison now, or shut up till the eternity, mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,388 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 29 minutes ago, Holko said: No need to overcomplicate it like that! If you simply play them over each other and line them up almost perfectly, you'll hear the phasing problems already. Or you invert one track and line them up perfectly, and they'll cancel each other out. Yeah do that, much easier and it works Actually there's nothing similar between the waveforms of both tracks, and it doesn't phase at all. TROS is clearly another recording The spectrograms look very different too: Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Loert said: Despite all those valid problems you list...I felt that smile at 2:48. Those horns sound amazing! And that 0:45 ritardando into the 0:54 horns... blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, Bespin said: Try my left/right channel way of comparison now, or shut up till the eternity, mercy. wtf i did. even uploaded the file for you to hear 33 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said: Okay, I did that: on the left is TFA, on the right is TROS: and I'm confused: at the beginning it syncs perfectly, then in the middle there are some differences, then they sync perfectly again, and then again not. So, I don't know now? Sb please help lol! 1166115110_MAinTitlecomparison.wav 30.99 MB · 0 downloads 8 minutes ago, Chewy said: Yeah do that, much easier and it works Actually there's nothing similar between the waveforms of both tracks, and it doesn't phase at all. TROS is clearly another recording The spectrograms look very different too: Okay, thanks! To me these spectrograms look almost the same (I just thought the small differences came from the different mix), but now it's all sorted out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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