Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Pinching myself, am I still dreaming? Taikomochi, Cerebral Cortex and Will 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 This is gorgeous!!! Is Helena an antagonist or did Indy and Marion get divorced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 I’d bet that if there’s a romantic angle, it’s probably not with Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Is she Mutt’s girlfriend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,368 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 38 minutes ago, Incanus said: Williams is such a master at fusing the Golden Age Hollywood sound with his own and making it so thoroughly and effortlessly his own. But still in that musical category "Fusing the Golden Age Hollywood sound with his own" it doesn't beat the love theme from Indy 2. But I also understand, that Helena is quite a different character than Willy. Anyway, it is a great John Williams piece of music. In many ways his scores from the past 10 years or so have an own kind of musical maturity that I really love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Score 770 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Wow, that's a beautiful piece! Nice harmonies all around. It might be interesting to those who have seen that music excerpt (posted few days ago by JoAnn Kane) with the instruction "De Rosa legato" in the horns' parts, to know that it perfectly matches the horn phrase starting around 2:17, so I bet that the excerpt was exactly that passage. 2 hours ago, TownerFan said: I don’t have memory of anything by JW being premiered in concert with such advance. The closest thing is when he performed an earlier version of “Hedwig’s Theme” at Tanglewood in July 2001. I seem to remember that he premiered Yoda's Theme and the Imperial March some time before the movie premiere, but I don't remember how long before... Amer, Marian Schedenig, Will and 4 others 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, Score said: I seem to remember that he premiered Yoda's Theme and the Imperial March some time before the movie premiere, but I don't remember how long before... Sure, both were premiered in April 1980 three weeks before the movie opened at JW's Pops season debut concert. He previewed a few other things in concert over the years, but never with so much advance. This is more akin to the world premiere of a piece for the concert stage. BB-8 and Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,315 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Best sounding version I've found: BrotherSound, Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Cerebral Cortex and 10 others 3 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 HOLY SHIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Jay said: I'm trying to think of the last time we got a film score debut like this a year before the film came out... Description says from 1983 but Williams did perform Luke and Leia on the piano for a radio or tv broadcast this is the best way to wake up Saturday morning! Such a beautiful theme. Once and rpvee 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GerateWohl 4,368 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 hours ago, artguy360 said: It's gonna take me a few more listens to nail down the main melody Listening to the new theme again, I had to think about the story Spielberg once told about Williams playing to him his two major ideas for the Raider's March, and He said, can't we have both? Just put them together. Here I imagine Williams telling Mangold: "For Helena I don't have much yet. Just this decreasing four note motif. And I thought about playing it with these chords or with these, then move to D minor and back or this progression. A little like I did in Marion's Theme like this. Or I invert it like this. I don't know, but I am working on it." And Mangold says, "Just take all you just played to me exactly in the way you played it to me, put a finish to it, write it down and you're done, I would say." Fabulin, Garrett and artguy360 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 5 hours ago, artguy360 said: What a gifttreat! Fixed. Not Mr. Big and michael_grig 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Obviously this is just wonderful to see and hear, not just as an early treat but also as a reminder of the blessing that Williams is alive and well to write, record and perform this piece and an entire new score at the age of 90. I thought the Obi-Wan theme was alright and understand why it was structured the way it was, but this right here is a return to a type of full-bodied and well-developed standalone piece like only the maestro can deliver. Every progression where it should be, covering so much ground in just a 4-minute arrangement. The warm harmonies are very reminiscent of TROS and conform beautifully to the kind of classy and mature style of Williams' later years. Seeing Mangold's active involvement in the process is the cherry on top, and hopefully bodes well for the treatment of the score proper and I suppose just the film itself too. "Why don't you play it at the Bowl?" is such a great line for the anecdotal Williams pantheon. Amazing. ragoz350, Andy, rpvee and 11 others 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,658 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 I think Williams is the only composer working in Hollywood who could have pulled off this piece. Once, Andy, Bayesian and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alex 2,835 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 You could tell someone this piece was from Raiders, TOD or TLC, and no one would question it. It sounds so Indy. Tydirium, Once, artguy360 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJH132 48 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 The guitarist Christopher Parkening was to premiere Elmer Bernstein's Guitar Concerto with the Oregon Symphony but it wasn't finished yet. He asked Williams if he could play "The Days Between" from STEPMOM instead, so we got to hear it early. At least it was before the soundtrack was released; not sure how much before the film. Dr. Know and GerateWohl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 29 minutes ago, Tom said: I think Williams is the only composer working in Hollywood who could have pulled off this piece. He’s the last of a dying breed of composers who came to film without too much preconceived notions and with a tremendous knowledge of the classical literature, therefore able to shape pieces like this. Sure, his music is tied to popular franchises that the general audience apparently is still craving for, but it’s nonetheless surprising that he has the clout of presenting a sophisticated piece like this in concert (which doesn’t sound *at all* like current film music) and yet having the complete attention of a 17,000-seat audience. It’s not something you can pull off so easily, let alone at 90 years old and in spite of being now always treated as the old venerable Maestro. Cerebral Cortex, Ricard, Nathan95 and 7 others 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 My heart just exploded. So so wonderful to hear. And so EARLY! Thank you Mangold/Lucasfilm for letting the Maestro share this with us! ”…She’s also a femme fatale…” I guess that remains to be seen! Brando and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Holy Moses! The Maestro continues to out-do himself. This was a phenomenal surprise! Helena’s Theme is beautiful and makes me even more anxious to finally see Indiana Jones 5 on opening night!!! Tydirium and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Wow, what a wonderful surprise!! Totally out of left field. Gorgeous piece -- reminds me a lot of TROS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 We didn’t even know PWBs character is named Helena did we? Not massive news I suppose. But a clever way to bury the lead I hope more guerrilla marketing like this occurs for this film. I’m not sure if the general public is super excited for it. And I so want it to be good and successful! Things like this remind people why the world fell in love with those movies. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,448 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 On one hand, I'm quite convinced she'll be Indy's granddaughter. On the other, I can't believe they'll ressurect the whole "you have a lost child" subplot from KOTCS. Or maybe (gulp) she's Indy's romantic pairing in this movie? It'd be very creepy, but anyway. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Just now, Edmilson said: Or maybe (gulp) she's Indy's romantic pairing in this movie? It'd be very creepy, but anyway. That would come around to being funny IMO Edmilson, Brando and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Really looking forward to hearing all the variations of that theme in the score proper. The opening phrase I’m sure could be used in a more heroic sense (similar to Rose’ theme perhaps?) Damn. We’re really gonna get a fifth Indy score!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Are you sure it's not Irina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Beautiful theme! Just so we can get a sense of what the actual melody of the theme is, I did a transcription of the theme proper (minus the intro, middle section, and coda) . There are two statements - the first in the strings at 0:29, the second in the horn at 2:33 (I reposted the great-sounding video from @crumbs): Taikomochi, TheUlyssesian, Tom and 17 others 10 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Wow, @Ludwig, we are possessed by the same need to transcribe, aren't we! Here's my own attempt, just of the opening first minute and a half. We can compare notes, literally! SpaceCoyote, Taikomochi, LSH and 11 others 11 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Falstaft said: Previous Page Next Page Previous Page Next Page Wow, @Ludwig, we are possessed by the same need to transcribe, aren't we! Here's my own attempt, just of the opening first minute and a half. We can compare notes, literally! Previous Page Next Page Previous Page Next Page Helena.tif 263.47 kB · 0 downloads I think we match! You're probably right about the rhythm of the triplet being changed to quarter-eighth-eighth in the 2nd bar of your 2nd-last line. There's just so much rubato in the piece, I went for the straight rhythms instead. And bravo for including the harmony! Will make a fine addition to your Indy catalogue! EDIT: After listening again, I changed the triplet I had in my m. 10 to the quarter-plus-eighths. Williams loves little changes like that, so I could see that being the case. ConorPower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, Ludwig said: I think we match! You're probably right about the rhythm of the triplet being changed to quarter-eighth-eighth in the 2nd bar of your 2nd-last line. There's just so much rubato in the piece, I went for the straight rhythms instead. And bravo for including the harmony! Will make a fine addition to your Indy catalogue! It's not just the rubato that makes it fun but tricky to transcribe, but the metrical flexibility. I think the first, most provisional statement of the theme alternates 3/4 and 4/4 for a bit -- gives it a kind of tentative, finding its way quality, don't you think? What do you make of the figure that he repeats and sequences starting at m. 10 -- could it be a very, very distant cousin of the main motif from the Raiders March, the way it spans a rising 6th and then repeats a step lower? The Lost Folio and ConorPower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Falstaft said: It's not just the rubato that makes it fun but tricky to transcribe, but the metrical flexibility. I think the first, most provisional statement of the theme alternates 3/4 and 4/4 for a bit -- gives it a kind of tentative, finding its way quality, don't you think? Yes, it's a bit like the Obi-Wan intro, where the theme hasn't yet solidified into it's final form until the whole orchestra gets going. He seems to like these provisional intros to his themes in these later scores. Even the Victory theme opening "The Rise of Skywalker" track has that provisional quality even if it's a bit more formed in that case. 14 minutes ago, Falstaft said: What do you make of the figure that he repeats and sequences starting at m. 10 -- could it be a very, very distant cousin of the main motif from the Raiders March, the way it spans a rising 6th and then repeats a step lower? Could be! I'm hearing several places where it also sounds a bit like Marion's theme (as others have noted above), so those sequences can sound a bit like the 6th and 7th notes of Marion's theme, if only in rhythm and contour, not so much interval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett 153 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 People are saying there’s a reference to Marion’s theme… I hear what you’re talking about, but I don’t think Williams meant it that way. Instead, I think it’s a way to bridge Helena’s theme back into the Raiders March during the end credits. Williams also bridged Marion’s theme into the Raiders March in the end credits of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Because the two bridges are trying, harmonically, to accomplish the same theme, it’s natural that the bridges would sound similar to each other. In fact, you would expect this. But I’m skeptical of the idea that Williams is explicitly referencing Marion here. I guess it’s possible, but it seems more likely that it’s just a coincidence. Chen G., crumbs and Brando 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Yeah, does sound like the perfect bridge for the Raiders March to come back in at the end (before the flute solo). So I guess there might be one or two other themes that precede this one in the credits suite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett 153 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, crumbs said: Yeah, does sound like the perfect bridge for the Raiders March to come back in at the end (before the flute solo). So I guess there might be one or two other themes that precede this one in the credits suite? Yeah, that’s my guess as well. Maybe the end credits will be: Raiders March > Roman theme > Teddy’s theme > Helena’s theme > Raiders March (Teddy is the rumored name of the young North African Boy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Edmilson said: On one hand, I'm quite convinced she'll be Indy's granddaughter. On the other, I can't believe they'll ressurect the whole "you have a lost child" subplot from KOTCS. Waller-Bridge is firmly in daughter territory, not granddaughter, with Ford being 43 years older than her, to be a granddaughter would require him to have had a child as a teenager and then that child to have had Waller-Bridge by their mid-20s. But either way, I don't think Mangold would pull a Mutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted September 3, 2022 Author Share Posted September 3, 2022 The film is set in 1969 when the character of Indiana Jones is 70 (Ford is currently 80 in real life) Even if PWB is playing a character younger than her own real life age of 37, that's still daughter and not granddaughter territory for sure. I didn't listen to Williams' speech; Did he specifically say Helena is PWB's character, or are people just assuming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jay said: I didn't listen to Williams' speech; Did he specifically say Helena is PWB's character, or are people just assuming? No he's clear. He says "Here is Phoebe's Theme..... [skip some description] .... here is Helena's Theme" Here's a video that includes the speech: Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Just listened again, can't wait to see it with context! Spoiler Also, from the set leaks and pictures we've seen, I'm really hoping we get to hear the return of the Nazi motifs from Raiders and Crusade, that would be splendid, as well as maybe a reappearance of Indy's Very First Adventure, if Indy interacts with the train we've seen pictures of. I cannot wait for next summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Man, what a beautiful theme. Like others, my first thought was "We Go Together" from TROS. I've been in a Golden Age phase recently, watching lots of old films and discovering old scores, so it's amazing to hear something like this from Williams right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Wow, that was stunning. Gave me goosebumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 9 hours ago, crumbs said: Mangold speaks! Drew Struzan responded to Mangold's tweet. Beautiful. The Maestro never disappoints. — Drew Struzan 🎨 (@DrewStruzan) September 3, 2022 WampaRat, crumbs, Not Mr. Big and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanAsh 80 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Garrett said: People are saying there’s a reference to Marion’s theme… I hear what you’re talking about, but I don’t think Williams meant it that way. Instead, I think it’s a way to bridge Helena’s theme back into the Raiders March during the end credits. Why not both? No work of art ever only has one be-all-end-all interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 It's beautiful man, absolutely beautiful. Was not expecting to hear music from the film this early and I'm glad we did. I can't wait to meet Helena. Hope those rumors of her being MB's granddaughter are true. Nothing but faith in James Mangold fr. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Woke up on a Saturday and had new John Williams music to a new Indiana Jones film waiting for me. Can't think of many better ways to start a three-day weekend. Life is good. @Ludwig @Falstaft It's insane that a piece like this can drop and not even half a day can go by before we already have transcriptions hot off the press. Thank you for all you two continue to give to this community, this just being one of many examples. We are grateful. Ludwig, Fabulin, Ricard and 8 others 8 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lost Folio 183 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Falstaft said: What do you make of the figure that he repeats and sequences starting at m. 10 -- could it be a very, very distant cousin of the main motif from the Raiders March, the way it spans a rising 6th and then repeats a step lower? I could see that being the case, at least on paper! He did refer to the march in Mutt's theme as well in a similar way. Wouldn't you also say that triplets are a defining feature of Marion's theme, and used quite characteristically here as well? For me, more than anything else, those triplets recapture the "Indy sound". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,127 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 5 hours ago, WampaRat said: Things like this remind people why the world fell in love with those movies. Yes! What a remarkable, lush, romantic love letter to cinema itself. It is just the right balance of complexity and accessibility. Yes it’s Golden Age. Yes, it’s Noir. Yes, it’s TROS. But it transcends each and every one of those to be just what it is - lovable. Truly a piece to be loved and savored. This is a GREAT sign for the rest of the score. This type of music just doesn’t exist anymore, and may never again. This gets me right in the heart. Do we deserve this even? After every fanboy gripe about KOTCS, John Williams is able to say, “Here. Enjoy.” crumbs, Brando and WampaRat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lairdo 726 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 12 hours ago, Jay said: I'm trying to think of the last time we got a film score debut like this a year before the film came out... Well something must have been more recent, but didn't we get the Hook theme via the trailer about 6-9 months in advance? 4 minutes ago, Andy said: Do we deserve this even? After every fanboy gripe about KOTCS, John Williams is able to say, “Here. Enjoy.” I like KOTCS. In any case, I don't think there was much fanboy griping about the music in that movie. So, Steven hands over the reins and we get "Jim" Mangold - who JW spoke very highly of! We definitely deserve this. I mean, really, this is going to end up being the last or nearly last JW film score suite from a movie. We might get three from Indy 5 - Helena, a short Raiders march as we have recently heard, and maybe one more? Brando and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,127 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 I like KOTCS too. Love it in fact. By us not deserving this, I speak metaphorically (and tongue in cheek) as the human race being worthy enough to be given this divine pleasure. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lairdo 726 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 Just now, Andy said: I like KOTCS too. Love it in fact. By us not deserving this, I speak metaphorically (and tongue in cheek) as the human race being worthy enough to be given this divine pleasure. I know and I get your meaning. I am just affirming we do deserve it. Divinely or otherwise. If anything, the world is slightly better, slightly smaller, slightly more lovely. 4 mins cannot save the world, but it can nudge it in the right direction. And we are going to get probably ~45 mins of Fablemans and 79 mins of Indy 5 (plus whatever is not released) to give the world a nice shove too! But we are very fortunate and should be thankful for every note. (And glad you like KOTCS too!) WampaRat, crumbs, Andy and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Damien F 1,742 Posted September 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2022 14 hours ago, Jay said: I'm trying to think of the last time we got a film score debut like this a year before the film came out... 1998 at the Hollywood Bowl JW: "Now I'd like to play a little something from next year's new Star Wars movie. It is a piece called Qui-Gon's Noble End for when Liam Neeson's character is killed by Darth Maul. Enjoy" 😂 igger6, mstrox, Andy and 13 others 1 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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