Williams debuts "Helena's Theme" from Indiana Jones 5 at the Hollywood Bowl

[Tydirium 1,166]

The big question is, how long until he does a violin & orchestra arrangement for Mutter?

[Garrett 153]

6 hours ago, Falstaft said:

Wow, @Ludwig, we are possessed by the same need to transcribe, aren't we!

 

Here's my own attempt, just of the opening first minute and a half. We can compare notes, literally!

 

 

Great work Falstaft! I’m noticing one thing though. Look at the introduction: 3rd measure, 1st note. You have this note as a B. However, to my ears, it sounds like a G.

 

[Andy 4,071]

I filtered some of the audio... seems like "Phoebe's Theme" has a bit of familiarity to it.  

 

 

 

[Falstaft 2,132]

27 minutes ago, Garrett said:

Great work Falstaft! I’m noticing one thing though. Look at the introduction: 3rd measure, 1st note. You have this note as a B. However, to my ears, it sounds like a G.

 

 

 

Fixing it!

[Bellosh 3,369]

Absolutely unreal 😍

 

I'm out right now but from what I've heard on my phone I'm in love.

 

Can't wait to listen all night with headphones!

[p0llux 392]

This is mind blowingly good. Oh yes, there's some Marion's Theme in there. I'm blown away by this piece right now. Gorgeously crafted. Take that, modern day film composers!

 

It's also giving me vibes from the concert version of "My Friend, The Brachiosaurus". That's an underrated gorgeous piece.

[Will 2,215]

Folks have mentioned Rise of Skywalker -- I also hear some similarities to The Long Goodbye, which JW just recently rearranged for Mutter!

 

 

[Garrett 153]

Hypothesis that could explain the resemblance to Marion’s theme:

 

Helena is the daughter of Collin Williams and Marion Ravenwood. For those who don’t remember, Collin Williams was Mutt’s adoptive father who was mentioned in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. (Hence the name “Mutt Williams”.)

 

This would make Helena Indy’s daughter-in-law. It would also mean that Helena is Mutt’s half-sister.

 

The ages work out. If Mutt had a sister one year younger than him, it would make her 32 in 1969. Phoebe Waller Bridge would have been 36 at the time of filming. So, pretty close.

 

It also just makes sense. Indy’s theme was referenced in “the Adventures of Mutt,” signaling that Mutt is Indy’s son.

 

Therefor, if Marion’s theme is referenced, it implies Helena is Marion’s daughter.

 

 

[crumbs 14,287]

A 4K video of the performance with Williams' complete speech. He speaks glowingly about the film and Harrison:

 

 

Sounds like the film hangs off the chemistry of HF/PWB, possibly reminiscent of the HF/SC dynamic in TLC.

 

That's something the Indy films always did well, his interactions with everyone along for the ride (Marion/Sallah, Willie/Shorty).

 

Might be part of the reason Skull falls flat. LeBeouf does an admirable job with Mutt but the dynamic with Indy is a little dull. Clearly they were going for the Indy unknowingly being a father figure to his estranged son dynamic but Koepp's writing doesn't make it sing.

[WampaRat 1,105]

“Helena” is a great name for this story I feel.  Might it have some connection to “Helen of Troy” perhaps? I know the film takes place around the Mediterranean with supposed connections to Greek history(?) wonder if there will be some sort of cosmic connection. 

[igger6 894]

Interesting!  They haven't done Greco-Roman stuff in the series yet.  That could be a cool way to go!

[crumbs 14,287]

Makes sense with all the Mediterranean locations they've shot at. 

 

A Williams score channelling Greek mythology and Roman-biblical epics is beyond mouthwatering... 

 

And if this theme is any indication of the score's influences (Golden Hollywood), we're in for one hell of a swan song. Along with Fabelmans, this might be the score that brings his entire working career in the film music industry full circle. 

[BB-8 3,459]

"...in the commedy and also the action scenes..."

 

A Leitmotiv in John Williams' speeches applicable to actresses "who can be many things".

[GlastoEls 556]

21 hours ago, crumbs said:

Best sounding version I've found:

 

Are we all regarding this as the finest audio version yet?

[Fabulin 3,506]

1 minute ago, GlastoEls said:

Are we all regarding this as the finest audio version yet?

No, I hear a glaring flub at 1:23 

[MaxTheHouseelf 324]

4 minutes ago, GlastoEls said:

Are we all regarding this as the finest audio version yet?

This damn chirping of crickets though, why nobody told them to shut up during the performance!!!

[crumbs 14,287]

4 minutes ago, MaxTheHouseelf said:

This damn chirping of crickets though, why nobody told them to shut up during the performance!!!

 

It's like the humming in the LSO Han Solo and the Princess performance all over again!

[BB-8 3,459]

[Fabulin 3,506]

Those crickets have been there since the end of KOTCS

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I like the idea of Williams-Marion daughter.

 

Though if she is adventurous why didnt she accompany Mutt in search for their mother...

[BB-8 3,459]

[pete 902]

4 hours ago, MaxTheHouseelf said:

This damn chirping of crickets though, why nobody told them to shut up during the performance!!!

 

I'm worried that by next year the piece will sound weird without the crickets

[WampaRat 1,105]

8 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

A Williams score channelling Greek mythology and Roman-biblical epics is beyond mouthwatering...

Going by Lucas’s logic (30s=adventure serials, 50s=alien invasion/communist paranoia films) with this film being set in the 60s, Sword and Sandal Epics were still popular around this time. I know Lucas isn’t personally involved this go around. But Williams could very well go full Miklòs Rosza at parts in this score! Fun to think about. But we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

 

[Bespin 8,472]

This Helena is not related to Marion or Indy at all (except for the musical structure)!

 

Because it's a love theme, and a very "old-fashioned" one, I guess this Helena will be the new crush (of course an impossible love) of a "rejuvenated" Indy.

 

Spoiler

Helena of Troy... the Elysium... I think we're hitting something...

 

For Williams, it's been a great opportunity to revisit the Romantic style of the Hollywood Golden Age's composers, developed for Epic and Period movies.

 

[Garrett 153]

4 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I like the idea of Williams-Marion daughter.

 

Though if she is adventurous why didnt she accompany Mutt in search for their mother...

Mutt was sent off on his adventure by a letter from Oxley. He and Oxley had had a close relationship, so it makes that Mutt is the one who would try to translate it (by bringing it to Indy), rather than his little sister.

 

Also, Mutt had more free time, since he had dropped out of school. Helena would probably have been in college.

 

 

[GerateWohl 4,322]

I was quickly skipping through Williams' soundtracks and to my surprise I realized how few romantic love themes he actually has written in his career. At least since 1975. But even before, there was Jane Eyre, some romantic tunes in the desaster movies and his romantic comedies. Afterwards, two love themes for Star Wars (Ep. 5 and 2), two for Indy (1 & 2), maybe the Ballroom Scene in Witches of Eastwick, but it never appeared in the movie. Dracula and Accidential Tourist? Not really as this is more or less in both cases the only theme of the whole movie for everything. Jazz Autographs from The Terminal. There might be some more that I forgot. And, hell, he wrote a lot of really highly emotional music for parenthood, friendship etc. But romantic love themes not so much as I would have thought.

 

[BB-8 3,459]

"Femme fatale" says it all.

 

Besides notions of BfG, it somehow reminds me of this, too.

 

57 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I was quickly skipping through Williams' soundtracks and to my surprise I realized how few romantic love themes he actually has written in his career. At least since 1975. But even before, there was Jane Eyre, some romantic tunes in the desaster movies and his romantic comedies. Afterwards, two love themes for Star Wars (Ep. 5 and 2), two for Indy (1 & 2), maybe the Ballroom Scene in Witches of Eastwick, but it never appeared in the movie. Dracula and Accidential Tourist? Not really as this is more or less in both cases the only theme of the whole movie for everything. Jazz Autographs from The Terminal. There might be some more that I forgot. And, hell, he wrote a lot of really highly emotional music for parenthood, friendship etc. But romantic love themes not so much as I would have thought.

 

Superman?

 

Far and Away?

 

The reason for classic love themes being less frequent in Williams' film work may be that many of Spielberg's films deal with historical figures and events (e.g. Schindler's, Amistad, Lincoln), or tell fictitious stories about individuals (often including children) and their adventures, dreams and feelings (E.T., Hook, A.I., BfG).

 

The classic sexual romance has rarely been the main theme.

[GerateWohl 4,322]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

Superman?

 

Far and Away?

Right.

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

The reason for classic love themes being less frequent in Williams' film work may be that many of Spielberg's films deal with historical figures and events (e.g. Schindler's, Amistad, Lincoln), or tell fictitious stories about individuals (often including children) and their adventures, dreams and feelings (E.T., Hook, A.I., BfG).

 

The classic sexual romance has rarely been the main theme.

Sure. I know, that it's not because he refused to write romantic themes for all the millions of loving couples in his movies.

 

[Faleel 5,326]

Does Lacy's Theme from superman IV count? It has saxaphone and everything?

 

Wally and Betty themes in 1941?

[Sandor 796]

Love Theme from The River, Superman, Ann and Gabriel theme from The Patriot and I would include the main theme from Sabrina as well. 

[Bellosh 3,369]

3 hours ago, Bespin said:

This Helena is not related to Marion or Indy at all (except for the musical structure)!

 

Because it's a love theme, and a very "old-fashioned" one, I guess this Helena will be the new crush (of course an impossible love) of a "rejuvenated" Indy.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Helena of Troy... the Elysium... I think we're hitting something...

 

 

My gut still tells me she is a former student and somewhat of a protege of Indys. Similar to Indy studying under Abner Ravenwood.

 

As for the hint of Marion's Theme, definitely interesting. But JW isn't a stranger to adding other characters themes to pieces where there's no connection.  I do like the fact that Marion's Theme is just always a nice bridge back into Indys theme.

 

 

[Brando 1,848]

18 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

My gut still tells me she is a former student and somewhat of a protege of Indys. Similar to Indy studying under Abner Ravenwood.

 

I do like the fact that Marion's Theme is just always a nice bridge back into Indys theme.

 

 

I’m leaning towards her being this as well, perhaps like a student of some sorts.

 

And yes, what a fantastic way to bridge it back to the Raiders March finale!

[GerateWohl 4,322]

1 hour ago, Sandor said:

Love Theme from The River, Superman, Ann and Gabriel theme from The Patriot and I would include the main theme from Sabrina as well. 

Right. I forgot all of these.

It's just, when I started collecting soundtracks at least 70% had a love theme. But the number dramtically decreased with time.

[Sandor 796]

6 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Right. I forgot all of these.

It's just, when I started collecting soundtracks at least 70% had a love theme. But the number dramtically decreased with time.

 

I think the times have changed as well. In the 70's, it was very common that a soundtrack would include a 'Love Theme from...' 

 

If The Patriot or The Terminal would have been done in that period, I think Ann and Gabriel or Jazz Autographs would have been titled 'Love Theme'. 

 

[Bespin 8,472]

Some here are definitely not ready for another chapter in the adventures of Henry Jones Jr!!!

[PetePan 163]

what's with all these people with light sabers in the audience...

[Jay 37,268]

It's a Bowl thing 

[rough cut 1,714]

Horrible tradition.

[King Mark 3,624]

wow never expected to hear something like this today opening up the MB!

 

It's really pretty and sounds more golden agey than any theme Williams ever wrote

 

Some sort of  "official" recording by the hollywood Bowl? Anyways it's not someone sitting in the audience who made this video

 

 

[lairdo 726]

15 hours ago, igger6 said:

Interesting!  They haven't done Greco-Roman stuff in the series yet.  That could be a cool way to go!

 

Unless you count The Fate of Atlantis adventure game and comic. However, it would be great to have this in big screen fashion for sure.

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

14 hours ago, crumbs said:

If this theme is any indication of the score's influences (Golden Hollywood), we're in for one hell of a swan song. Along with Fabelmans, this might be the score that brings his entire working career in the film music industry full circle. 

 

How fantastic it is to have Williams attacking a piece of this nature that in some ways harkens back to some of his earlier works but with all the sensibilities and musical growth he has picked up along the way; writing with the confidence of an assured hand of mastery instead of a someone still finding their voice. Simply delightful. 

[Faleel 5,326]

52 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Horrible tradition.

Yeah, should be cigars!

[igger6 894]

53 minutes ago, lairdo said:

 

Unless you count The Fate of Atlantis adventure game and comic. However, it would be great to have this in big screen fashion for sure.

 

 

There was a comic of that?  Interesting.  I just blundered and tip-booked my way through the re-release of that game a year ago. Now I'm wondering which path the plot followed—Wits, Fists, or Teams?

[BB-8 3,459]

23 hours ago, Tydirium said:

The big question is, how long until he does a violin & orchestra arrangement for Mutter?

 

Is she "femme fatale" and/or muse?

[Edmilson 7,372]

I was thinking, Williams described the character as a femme fatale, but I don't think her theme quite conveys that. It sounds like a theme for a much nicer, more wholesome character, kinda like Anakin's Theme or My Friend Brachiossaurus. 

 

Irina's Theme, on the other hand, does sound particularly femme fatale-y.

[Bespin 8,472]

It's a theme for a famous Helen...

 

THE femme fatale, the only one Indy ever dreamed of and waited his whole life for.

[BB-8 3,459]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I was thinking, Williams described the character as a femme fatale, but I don't think her theme quite conveys that. It sounds like a theme for a much nicer, more wholesome character, kinda like Anakin's Theme or My Friend Brachiossaurus. 

 

Irina's Theme, on the other hand, does sound particularly femme fatale-y.

Had the same associations - especially Brachiossaurus. 

 

Could Indy have a daughter from the Temple of Doom romance?

 

[TolkienSS 405]

This man's brain is on a completely different plane of existence.

 

This sounds already lightyears ahead of Indy IV.

[Tom 4,632]

17 minutes ago, Bespin said:

It's a theme for Helen of Troy damn idiots.

 

THE femme fatale, the only one Indy could have dreamed of all his life.

Indy goes back in time.  Helen goes back with Indy.  Agamemnon rallies the Greeks, uses his own machine, and launches all out war in late 60s America.  Achilles kills Indy, takes his last name, and the franchise continues as Achilles Jones (whose own death in a later installment will sort of write itself).  

[Fabulin 3,506]

Just now, Tom said:

Indy goes back in time.  Helen goes back with Indy.  Agamemnon rallies the Greeks, uses his own machine, and launches all out war in late 60s America.  Achilles kills Indy, takes his last name, and the franchise continues as Achilles Jones (whose own death in a later installment will sort of write itself).