Jump to content

Williams debuts "Helena's Theme" from Indiana Jones 5 at the Hollywood Bowl


Jay
 Share

Recommended Posts

This is gorgeous!!!

 

Is Helena an antagonist or did Indy and Marion get divorced?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Williams is such a master at fusing the Golden Age Hollywood sound with his own and making it so thoroughly and effortlessly his own. 

But still in that musical category  "Fusing the Golden Age Hollywood sound with his own" it doesn't beat the love theme from Indy 2. 

But I also understand, that Helena is quite a different character than Willy. Anyway, it is a great John Williams piece of music. In many ways his scores from the past 10 years or so have an own kind of musical maturity that I really love.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Score said:

I seem to remember that he premiered Yoda's Theme and the Imperial March some time before the movie premiere, but I don't remember how long before... 

 

 

Sure, both were premiered in April 1980 three weeks before the movie opened at JW's Pops season debut concert. He previewed a few other things in concert over the years, but never with so much advance. This is more akin to the world premiere of a piece for the concert stage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jay said:

I'm trying to think of the last time we got a film score debut like this a year before the film came out...

Description says from 1983 but Williams did perform Luke and Leia on the piano for a radio or tv broadcast 


this is the best way to wake up Saturday morning! Such a beautiful theme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The guitarist Christopher Parkening was to premiere Elmer Bernstein's Guitar Concerto with the Oregon Symphony but it wasn't finished yet.  He asked Williams if he could play "The Days Between" from STEPMOM instead, so we got to hear it early.  At least it was before the soundtrack was released; not sure how much before the film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy Moses! The Maestro continues to out-do himself. This was a phenomenal surprise! Helena’s Theme is beautiful and makes me even more anxious to finally see Indiana Jones 5 on opening night!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, what a wonderful surprise!! Totally out of left field. Gorgeous piece -- reminds me a lot of TROS. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We didn’t even know PWBs character is named Helena did we? Not massive news I suppose. But a clever way to bury the lead ;) 

 

I hope more guerrilla marketing like this occurs for this film. I’m not sure if the general public is super excited for it. And I so want it to be good and successful! Things like this remind people why the world fell in love with those movies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On one hand, I'm quite convinced she'll be Indy's granddaughter. On the other, I can't believe they'll ressurect the whole "you have a lost child" subplot from KOTCS. 

 

Or maybe (gulp) she's Indy's romantic pairing in this movie? It'd be very creepy, but anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really looking forward to hearing all the variations of that theme in the score proper. The opening phrase I’m sure could be used in a more heroic sense (similar to Rose’ theme perhaps?)

 

Damn. We’re really gonna get a fifth Indy score!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Falstaft said:

Wow, @Ludwig, we are possessed by the same need to transcribe, aren't we!

 

Here's my own attempt, just of the opening first minute and a half. We can compare notes, literally!

 

 


Helena.tif 263.47 kB · 0 downloads

 

I think we match! You're probably right about the rhythm of the triplet being changed to quarter-eighth-eighth in the 2nd bar of your 2nd-last line. There's just so much rubato in the piece, I went for the straight rhythms instead.

 

And bravo for including the harmony! Will make a fine addition to your Indy catalogue!

 

EDIT: After listening again, I changed the triplet I had in my m. 10 to the quarter-plus-eighths. Williams loves little changes like that, so I could see that being the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Ludwig said:

 

I think we match! You're probably right about the rhythm of the triplet being changed to quarter-eighth-eighth in the 2nd bar of your 2nd-last line. There's just so much rubato in the piece, I went for the straight rhythms instead.

 

And bravo for including the harmony! Will make a fine addition to your Indy catalogue!

 

It's not just the rubato that makes it fun but tricky to transcribe, but the metrical flexibility. I think the first, most provisional statement of the theme alternates 3/4 and 4/4 for a bit -- gives it a kind of tentative, finding its way quality, don't you think?

 

What do you make of the figure that he repeats and sequences starting at m. 10 -- could it be a very, very distant cousin of the main motif from the Raiders March, the way it spans a rising 6th and then repeats a step lower?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Falstaft said:

It's not just the rubato that makes it fun but tricky to transcribe, but the metrical flexibility. I think the first, most provisional statement of the theme alternates 3/4 and 4/4 for a bit -- gives it a kind of tentative, finding its way quality, don't you think?

 

Yes, it's a bit like the Obi-Wan intro, where the theme hasn't yet solidified into it's final form until the whole orchestra gets going. He seems to like these provisional intros to his themes in these later scores. Even the Victory theme opening "The Rise of Skywalker" track has that provisional quality even if it's a bit more formed in that case.

 

14 minutes ago, Falstaft said:

What do you make of the figure that he repeats and sequences starting at m. 10 -- could it be a very, very distant cousin of the main motif from the Raiders March, the way it spans a rising 6th and then repeats a step lower?

 

Could be! I'm hearing several places where it also sounds a bit like Marion's theme (as others have noted above), so those sequences can sound a bit like the 6th and 7th notes of Marion's theme, if only in rhythm and contour, not so much interval.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People are saying there’s a reference to Marion’s theme… I hear what you’re talking about, but I don’t think Williams meant it that way.

 

Instead, I think it’s a way to bridge Helena’s theme back into the Raiders March during the end credits.

 

Williams also bridged Marion’s theme into the Raiders March in the end credits of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

Because the two bridges are trying, harmonically, to accomplish the same theme, it’s natural that the bridges would sound similar to each other. In fact, you would expect this.

 

But I’m skeptical of the idea that Williams is explicitly referencing Marion here. I guess it’s possible, but it seems more likely that it’s just a coincidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, does sound like the perfect bridge for the Raiders March to come back in at the end (before the flute solo). 

 

So I guess there might be one or two other themes that precede this one in the credits suite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Yeah, does sound like the perfect bridge for the Raiders March to come back in at the end (before the flute solo). 

 

So I guess there might be one or two other themes that precede this one in the credits suite?

Yeah, that’s my guess as well.
 

Maybe the end credits will be:

 

Raiders March > Roman theme > Teddy’s theme > Helena’s theme > Raiders March

 

(Teddy is the rumored name of the young North African Boy.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

On one hand, I'm quite convinced she'll be Indy's granddaughter. On the other, I can't believe they'll ressurect the whole "you have a lost child" subplot from KOTCS.

 

Waller-Bridge is firmly in daughter territory, not granddaughter, with Ford being 43 years older than her, to be a granddaughter would require him to have had a child as a teenager and then that child to have had Waller-Bridge by their mid-20s.

 

But either way, I don't think Mangold would pull a Mutt :P 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The film is set in 1969 when the character of Indiana Jones is 70 (Ford is currently 80 in real life)

 

Even if PWB is playing a character younger than her own real life age of 37, that's still daughter and not granddaughter territory for sure.

 

I didn't listen to Williams' speech; Did he specifically say Helena is PWB's character, or are people just assuming?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

I didn't listen to Williams' speech; Did he specifically say Helena is PWB's character, or are people just assuming?

 

No he's clear.  He says "Here is Phoebe's Theme..... [skip some description] .... here is Helena's Theme"

 

Here's a video that includes the speech:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just listened again, can't wait to see it with context!

Spoiler

Also, from the set leaks and pictures we've seen, I'm really hoping we get to hear the return of the Nazi motifs from Raiders and Crusade, that would be splendid, as well as maybe a reappearance of Indy's Very First Adventure, if Indy interacts with the train we've seen pictures of.

I cannot wait for next summer!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, what a beautiful theme. Like others, my first thought was "We Go Together" from TROS. I've been in a Golden Age phase recently, watching lots of old films and discovering old scores, so it's amazing to hear something like this from Williams right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Garrett said:

People are saying there’s a reference to Marion’s theme… I hear what you’re talking about, but I don’t think Williams meant it that way.

 

Instead, I think it’s a way to bridge Helena’s theme back into the Raiders March during the end credits.

Why not both? No work of art ever only has one be-all-end-all interpretation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's beautiful man, absolutely beautiful. Was not expecting to hear music from the film this early and I'm glad we did.

I can't wait to meet Helena. Hope those rumors of her being MB's granddaughter are true. Nothing but faith in James Mangold fr.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Falstaft said:

What do you make of the figure that he repeats and sequences starting at m. 10 -- could it be a very, very distant cousin of the main motif from the Raiders March, the way it spans a rising 6th and then repeats a step lower?

 

I could see that being the case, at least on paper! He did refer to the march in Mutt's theme as well in a similar way.

 

Wouldn't you also say that triplets are a defining feature of Marion's theme, and used quite characteristically here as well? For me, more than anything else, those triplets recapture the "Indy sound".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Jay said:

I'm trying to think of the last time we got a film score debut like this a year before the film came out...

 

Well something must have been more recent, but didn't we get the Hook theme via the trailer about 6-9 months in advance?

4 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

Do we deserve this even?  After every fanboy gripe about KOTCS, John Williams is able to say, “Here. Enjoy.”

 

I like KOTCS. In any case, I don't think there was much fanboy griping about the music in that movie. So, Steven hands over the reins and we get "Jim" Mangold - who JW spoke very highly of!

 

We definitely deserve this. I mean, really, this is going to end up being the last or nearly last JW film score suite from a movie. We might get three from Indy 5 - Helena, a short Raiders march as we have recently heard, and maybe one more? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like KOTCS too. Love it in fact. 
 

By us not deserving this, I speak metaphorically (and tongue in cheek) as the human race being worthy enough to be given this divine pleasure. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.