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Williams debuts "Helena's Theme" from Indiana Jones 5 at the Hollywood Bowl


Jay
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14 hours ago, Tom said:

Indy goes back in time.  Helen goes back with Indy.  Agamemnon rallies the Greeks, uses his own machine, and launches all out war in late 60s America.  Achilles kills Indy, takes his last name, and the franchise continues as Achilles Jones (whose own death in a later installment will sort of write itself).  

 

Just read about the Elysium.

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47 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I was thinking, Williams described the character as a femme fatale, but I don't think her theme quite conveys that. It sounds like a theme for a much nicer, more wholesome character, kinda like Anakin's Theme or My Friend Brachiossaurus. 

 

Irina's Theme, on the other hand, does sound particularly femme fatale-y.

Yeah. He used that word to describe Spalko, but on film she never seemed particularly “femme fatale “ to me. There has to be something alluring about a femme fatale. Sexy but dangerous. I think Cate Blanchet could have done that. But for whatever reason, the writing and/or direction/editing of the character never came off that way. Just a stereotypical “cold Russian”. William’s Spalko theme is truly perfect for a femme fatale though. 

For my money the best femme fatale we’ve seen in Indy has been Elsa :) Come to think of it, I’m surprised Williams didn’t try to write a more mysterious sexy theme for her. The closest I think he got was a whisp of a moment in “The Austrian Way” 00:36-1:55

It wants to be a theme but never seems to materialize. I guess that musically nebulous approach to her character works though as her motivations are always changing throughout the film. Still. Seems like a missed opportunity for JW.

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I can already hear the dialogue going on while this theme is playing in the background...things like: "trust me..""I hate arrogant men""me?a conceded ape?""I dont like fast women""Oh Indy.." "I love Sicily.." ;)

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Nah Helena is probably gonna "put him in his place" by kicking his ass for the entire movie and refusing his inappropriate advances.

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The  discussion here of "Love Themes" is rather interesting. Williams calling PWB's Helena a femme fatale struck me, as the theme didn't sound as noir-ish as Irina's theme. I'd be interesting in seeing how the theme relates to the depiction of her. Is it really representative of her character, or (as described in relation to Marion's theme on Art of the Score) a "thinking of Helena" theme? Not so much representative of her but how Indy (or maybe even Williams?) thinks about her. 

 

I addressed this issue a bit when discussing Irina and KotCS in article I had out last year. I'll do a shameless self-plug for anyone who might be interested in reading it. 

Article - Swashbucklers and Femme Fatales - Gender Coding in John Williams's Score to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008).pdf

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I am wondering whether this is a fully fledged theme or rather a cell that is awaiting some kind of development, transformation, or merging with existing themes.

 

Could Helena be an antagonist in disguise?

 

I was also day-dreaming about the potential plot...1969 (?): the Apollo Mission, a Lost Ark hidden by post-WWII villains on a space-station or even on the moon, thus the competition to get there first...

 

Come on, that's a better plot than stories about crystal skulls and alien in-/evasions.

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It would be a nice homage if Williams intervines both Marion and Willie Scotts’ romantic themes while segueing into each other and moving towards the end title coda. Since this will be the last Indy film Iam hoping he can do something special like he did with the  TROS end titles.

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I think JW simply asked if he can play the theme in concert... and they just can't say no to JW.

 

Okay, but just say its "Helena"'s Theme, not more, okay? ;)

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47 minutes ago, Amer said:

It would be a nice homage if Williams intervines both Marion and Willie Scotts’ romantic themes while segueing into each other and moving towards the end title coda. Since this will be the last Indy film Iam hoping he can do something special like he did with the  TROS end titles.

I think it would be sweet if he touched on a little bit of all the end credits from each film during the finale. 

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He didn't describe her as a femme fatale last night

 

He also said it was Mangold's idea for him to play it at the Bowl this weekend

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I could also imagine it would be a good setup for a final Oscar campaign, by letting the theme sink in before it's out so the impact of the score will be bigger – people will actually be able to hum it before they've seen the movie!

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16 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

 

Great to see he's actively responding to tweets about it!

One of the few pros to Twitter:lol:

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29 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Imagine if Mangold has enough clout (after finishing post-production) to push Disney Records to assemble expansions between now and July next year?

 

Great to see he's actively responding to tweets about it!

I would assume if he asks for it and John gives his blessing, they'll do it.

if more people ask him it's not far-fetched to think he will

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But I strongly disagree with those asking for a complete score release at day one. First I want my single disk OST with selected pieces edited for a good listening experience.

 

But well made please. 

I have to admit, that recently the FYC albums were particularly better than the OSTs. At least for SW 8 and 9.

Because FYC was focussed on the new music and OST on the old ones from the previous movies.

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3 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

Really bizarre (and really cool) seeing such a big Hollywood director responding to stuff like this haha.

Imagine a James Mangold - John Powell collaboration, where both would tweet things. A better world

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14 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

But I strongly disagree with those asking for a complete score release at day one. First I want my single disk OST with selected pieces edited for a good listening experience.

Both is good 

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At the golden era of albums, vynils then CDs, OSTs had a chance to become a selling success of its own.

 

This era is behind us.

 

So yes, why not release the complete score at first.

 

We'll pay for that, I mean us, who allow the specialized labels to live. And those specialized labels determine in advance what will be their sales, by releasing Limited Editions. That's how it works now.

 

Except for a Star Wars movie (or very specific franchise), there is no more market for old OSTs like we knew them.

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Looking back, it was a little frustrating to have for about 14 years only the 40 minute OST of E.T. at hand. For Indy 2 it was even longer I think. This time they don't have to wait that long to release the first expansion.

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@Jaywhat a cool breakdown of OSTs and time to first expansion, thanks for making that!

 

As for Helena's theme, it's great! Really excited to for this score next year. 

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55 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

  1. Stark Fear, 1962 (60)
  2. The Katherine Reed Story, 1965 (57)

Hmm, strange. I didn't have those in my Williams spreadsheet

 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t3wT8eQumVviGLYHhZPXsMASnh5_COfWEICbbw4hS3I/edit#gid=865673007

 

I know it still likely isn't complete, but their addition makes Star Wars Williams's round 50th film score and 100th composition! :lovethis:

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For Stark Fear, he only composed the "Party Music"; Lawrence V. Fisher composed the film score

 

"The Katherine Reed Story" is a short film, not feature length

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