Popular Post enderdrag64 624 Posted September 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2022 UPDATE: We now have a Discord server: https://discord.gg/jANPycCmVd I'm excited to announce that I have recently become the admin/bureaucrat of the previously abandoned Film Music Wiki over on fandom.com. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to bring the site up to an acceptable standard, but I hope to eventually make it the de facto source of information regarding film scores. There are other sites with info of this nature on the internet but all of them are incomplete and you'd need to cross check several sources to get all the info you want. For example, if I were trying to research the first Harry Potter score, I could find the existence of and a little bit of info on the OST and the La-La Land set on Discogs, but no mention of the sessions leak. Discogs also doesn't present any sort of comparison between what material is on the OST and what material is on the La-La Land and how they overlap and how they don't. Discogs also wastes a lot of space covering reissues of OSTs, which while possibly interesting from a collector's perspective they don't really matter from a musical perspective. If I instead check out the excellent Chronological Scores / Soundtracks blog, I would learn of the existence of the sessions leak, and sort of get an idea of how the music is used in the film, but I still wouldn't know the exact differences between the releases, or exactly what alterations are made to cues in the final film. The Chronological Scores blog is also designed to be more of an editing guide than an informative breakdown of a score, which means on its own the information isn't complete. If I dug a little bit deeper I might find Jay's fantastic spreadsheet breaking down the all the releases of the score in relation to the original sheet music. This would provide a proper comparison of the releases and give most of the information I would want, but it still doesn't cover how the music is edited for the final film. Also, none of these sources go into detail about how the score was written or how different themes are utilized or when or where it was recorded. There are of course other sources that would provide this information, but I think you get the point. I want to provide one centralized source of information for film score fans to get an idea of what exists for any given score and presents most of the information they might want (cue lists, release breakdowns, behind-the-scenes info), while also linking back to all these other excellent sources. To me, it seems a wiki is the perfect way to accomplish that goal. Plus, with the high search rankings of Fandom sites, it has the added bonus of increasing exposure to and awareness of film music for the general public. Also, I should note that I plan on covering not just "film" scores but also television and videogame music as well. Lastly, I want to provide a roadmap of some of what I have planned: Spoiler I need to get a reference/citation system in place as soon as possible. In order to do this I'm going to need to build some citation templates from scratch, I just haven't had the time yet to sit down and do this yet. The main page needs a major overhaul to make it more inviting and interesting. Also the theme in general on the site is a bit ugly right now, I'm going to want to find a better appearance I want to create discography pages for all the major labels (I've already done Film Score Monthly and Percepto Records, I'm currently working on La-La Land. Eventually I want to also have pages for other labels like Intrada and Varese and Quartet, I still haven't figured out what to do with more general labels like Sony Classical yet, if labels of that kind end up getting pages I may have to restrict it so only soundtrack releases get listed. I want to create discography pages for all the major composers, covering all of their film related works. I've already done this for John Williams I should probably create a style guide/general recommendations for articles so that pages can be consistent and high quality. This will include the layout of the article, guidelines on how to order things, where to place pictures, where to write prose and where to include tables, that kind of thing. Also we should outline what constitutes an important release: e.g. explaining why out of the 37 releases of Harry Potter 1 listed on Discogs, only the OST and the LLL matter Eventually I want as many film scores as possible to receive pages, but I'm going to start by focusing on more popular scores, and then I can branch out by covering releases from labels, important scores from specific composers , and so on For scores with unreleased music available in videogames, I eventually want to breakdown exactly what cues are available in which game files in every game where they are available. This is obviously most relevant for the Star Wars prequels, but it can apply to other series as well (such as Lord of the Rings) Obviously, I am only one person, and I will not be able to do all this on my own. If anyone here is interested in participating as an editor I'd love to have the help. Thanks! Brando, Smeltington, 4te and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Reminds me of the old Scorepedia project: Smeltington and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Roll the Bones said: Reminds me of the old Scorepedia project: Oh wow I hadn't ever heard of that. Sad that it didn't grow sucessfully. Hopefully that isn't a bad sign for my initiative that my two predecessors were both abandoned so quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 I have had thoughts of doing some sort of Theme database for scores, especially ones for films in a series. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 I don't have much time to help with this ambitious effort, but if you haven't thought of these already, it'd be nice to also include the following, where available: Scoring session photos/videos Performer listings Technical recording details (mics used, analog/digital, etc.) Recording venues Smeltington and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smeltington 1,440 Posted September 14, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 14, 2022 I really had high hopes for Scorepedia. I hope this one will take off. So many people have been kind enough to share valuable content on this forum... the sum total knowledge on here is massive, and much of it is obscure and difficult if not impossible to find anywhere else. But unfortunately, it's often hard to find the info here too, given that it's spread out across years' worth of forum posts. I think a wiki format would be an extremely handy reference, if we were able to start sharing info over there. I wonder if any of our Scorepedia articles still exist somewhere, to be ported in? I remember the Chamber of Secrets score was my pet project over there, it would be cool to see that page resurrected, along with all the rest of the content others contributed. enderdrag64, Tydirium, Mr. Who and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 This is very cool! I wish there was a guide somewhere for me to go through to see which cues get edited for what in the final film mix. This might hurt some of your brains, but I like listening to the scores as they're presented in the film, which includes editing them as well, which can be fun and challenging at the same time. I've done this for a couple of the SW movies(my edits aren't 100% complete), the Indiana Jones movies, Jurassic Park 1-3, Hook, Home Alone 1&2, E.T., Jaws 1-4. I can help with the film edits if you'd like, or if anyone had any questions enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Smeltington said: I wonder if any of our Scorepedia articles still exist somewhere, to be ported in? I remember the Chamber of Secrets score was my pet project over there, it would be cool to see that page resurrected, along with all the rest of the content others contributed. The last post from the creator of Scorepedia is also the account's last day of activity, so even though the account's last message says that the database files were backed up for transferring to a different site I'm not sure if they're still available for contact However, it does look like archive.org has most of the pages archived (including Chamber of Secrets), but I'm not sure how complete of a backup it is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Well, at least we can get the content through archive.org. Maybe some of us who worked on Scorepedia articles could copy our content over. How easy would it be to move the fandom.com wiki to some other webhost? I'm thinking about future proofing, plus the number of ads over there is a bit distracting, so it would be nice to know if all our work is tied up in that platform or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Yea fandom by far shoves the most ads all over my screen of any website I use regularly without question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Smeltington said: How easy would it be to move the fandom.com wiki to some other webhost? I'm thinking about future proofing, plus the number of ads over there is a bit distracting, so it would be nice to know if all our work is tied up in that platform or not. I'm not really sure about the difficulty of making a wiki site from scratch/on another platform, but transferring off of Fandom is pretty easy, everything is Creative Commons so you can copy/modify all of it as long as you credit the authors/link to the original. Personally I use an adblocker so I've never had any problems with the site, but if that's really a common concern we could look into alternatives I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 2 hours ago, enderdrag64 said: everything is Creative Commons so you can copy/modify all of it as long as you credit the authors/link to the original. Well that's good. I'm also wondering if it would be possible from a technical standpoint, because if the project is successful there will be too much content to easily copy each page over manually. 2 hours ago, enderdrag64 said: Personally I use an adblocker so I've never had any problems with the site, but if that's really a common concern we could look into alternatives I guess I do think it would make the site feel more legitimate and user-friendly, although the alternative may be paid hosting. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Why not deposit the data in a more durable library, https://www.wikipedia.org/ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 56 minutes ago, Smeltington said: Well that's good. I'm also wondering if it would be possible from a technical standpoint, because if the project is successful there will be too much content to easily copy each page over manually. Sites have done it before. I'm not sure how they did it exactly but there's probably a way to automate the process 41 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Why not deposit the data in a more durable library, https://www.wikipedia.org/ ? The concern I'd have over putting it on Wikipedia is their sourcing requirements. Wikipedia has very strict policies about attributing information and referencing valid sources. As I'm sure most of you know, much of our available information about various scores come from either session leaks or sheet music scans that aren't easily (or legally) available on the surface web. I ran into problems with this when I wanted to add more accurate information about the star wars scores to Wookieepedia (the star wars fandom wiki), they wouldn't allow many of my edits because I was citing "unpublished" sources - unpublished meaning not available to the general public. And Wookieepedia's policies are taken almost verbatim from Wikipedia. The other obstacle with Wikipedia is their No Original Research rule - pretty much any kind of score analysis or thematic breakdown that doesn't stem from some other site count as original research. By running an independent film music wiki we can avoid these issues because we can create our own rules Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 19 hours ago, enderdrag64 said: Sites have done it before. Good to know! I wonder how they did it. Everything you said about the drawbacks of Wikipedia makes sense. It's sounding like this might need to be hosted independently one day, but maybe having it on Fandom is appropriate in the beginning when there's no way to get funds for hosting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Drew 590 Posted November 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2022 On 14/09/2022 at 1:49 PM, enderdrag64 said: Sites have done it before. I'm not sure how they did it exactly but there's probably a way to automate the process The concern I'd have over putting it on Wikipedia is their sourcing requirements. Wikipedia has very strict policies about attributing information and referencing valid sources. As I'm sure most of you know, much of our available information about various scores come from either session leaks or sheet music scans that aren't easily (or legally) available on the surface web. I ran into problems with this when I wanted to add more accurate information about the star wars scores to Wookieepedia (the star wars fandom wiki), they wouldn't allow many of my edits because I was citing "unpublished" sources - unpublished meaning not available to the general public. And Wookieepedia's policies are taken almost verbatim from Wikipedia. The other obstacle with Wikipedia is their No Original Research rule - pretty much any kind of score analysis or thematic breakdown that doesn't stem from some other site count as original research. By running an independent film music wiki we can avoid these issues because we can create our own rules Wikipedia's sourcing requirements have made me angry so many times. I can't count how many times I added information that was completely factual, only for it to be deleted by a page-watcher who accused me of "original research". Because obviously, every fact about soundtracks will be published by reputable sources? Of course not! Mr. Who, ThePenitentMan1 and enderdrag64 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyenaBoy 29 Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 9 hours ago, Drew said: Wikipedia's sourcing requirements have made me angry so many times. I can't count how many times I added information that was completely factual, only for it to be deleted by a page-watcher who accused me of "original research". Because obviously, every fact about soundtracks will be published by reputable sources? Of course not! I remember trying to update information on the Spotted Hyena article using the Ngorongoro Crater Hyena Project's website as a source, only to havw my edits reverted by someone who claimed my information came from an "unreliable source" despite the fact the Ngorongoro Crater Hyena Project literally study hyenas out in the wild, which makes them 100% a reliable source. I mean, how much more reliable can you get than actual scientists? Drew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted November 4, 2022 Author Share Posted November 4, 2022 On 14/09/2022 at 8:52 AM, Smeltington said: Well, at least we can get the content through archive.org. Maybe some of us who worked on Scorepedia articles could copy our content over. How easy would it be to move the fandom.com wiki to some other webhost? I'm thinking about future proofing, plus the number of ads over there is a bit distracting, so it would be nice to know if all our work is tied up in that platform or not. Re-upping this because of some recent news: I sometimes pop in on the Wookieepedia Discord server from time to time, today I just saw the baffling news that one of the oldest admins and bureaucrats just got perma-banned with no warning for ridiculous reasons. He had a personal wiki with an archive of the old Wookieepedia IRC chat on it which contained some messages that were supposedly seriously offensive - what those messages were I don't know, and it honestly doesn't matter. The point is they weren't even his own words, the archive had been up for several years (and the contents of it were more than a decade old), and he was never contacted or asked to take them down (which he says he would have had he been asked) - the first he heard that it was a problem was the message informing him he was to be perma-banned. Most of the users there don't agree with the decision but there's nothing they can do. Add to that I heard just a week or two ago the Zelda wiki just left Fandom as well. This idea is starting to seem more and more appealing. The main problems are finding a different host and paying for server costs when there's zero traffic. There's also the fact that finding editors is hard enough as it is, one or two people can't create an entire wiki from scratch by themselves. It's one thing to move an established userbase somewhere else where at least some of the people will move to a new site, it's quite another to build from the ground up where you're unlikely to get much traffic at all Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyenaBoy 29 Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 14 hours ago, enderdrag64 said: Re-upping this because of some recent news: I sometimes pop in on the Wookieepedia Discord server from time to time, today I just saw the baffling news that one of the oldest admins and bureaucrats just got perma-banned with no warning for ridiculous reasons. He had a personal wiki with an archive of the old Wookieepedia IRC chat on it which contained some messages that were supposedly seriously offensive - what those messages were I don't know, and it honestly doesn't matter. The point is they weren't even his own words, the archive had been up for several years (and the contents of it were more than a decade old), and he was never contacted or asked to take them down (which he says he would have had he been asked) - the first he heard that it was a problem was the message informing him he was to be perma-banned. Most of the users there don't agree with the decision but there's nothing they can do. Add to that I heard just a week or two ago the Zelda wiki just left Fandom as well. This idea is starting to seem more and more appealing. The main problems are finding a different host and paying for server costs when there's zero traffic. There's also the fact that finding editors is hard enough as it is, one or two people can't create an entire wiki from scratch by themselves. It's one thing to move an established userbase somewhere else where at least some of the people will move to a new site, it's quite another to build from the ground up where you're unlikely to get much traffic at all So, they pretty much perma-banned the guy for literally no reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 19 hours ago, enderdrag64 said: Re-upping this because of some recent news: I sometimes pop in on the Wookieepedia Discord server from time to time, today I just saw the baffling news that one of the oldest admins and bureaucrats just got perma-banned with no warning for ridiculous reasons. He had a personal wiki with an archive of the old Wookieepedia IRC chat on it which contained some messages that were supposedly seriously offensive - what those messages were I don't know, and it honestly doesn't matter. The point is they weren't even his own words, the archive had been up for several years (and the contents of it were more than a decade old), and he was never contacted or asked to take them down (which he says he would have had he been asked) - the first he heard that it was a problem was the message informing him he was to be perma-banned. Most of the users there don't agree with the decision but there's nothing they can do. Add to that I heard just a week or two ago the Zelda wiki just left Fandom as well. This idea is starting to seem more and more appealing. The main problems are finding a different host and paying for server costs when there's zero traffic. There's also the fact that finding editors is hard enough as it is, one or two people can't create an entire wiki from scratch by themselves. It's one thing to move an established userbase somewhere else where at least some of the people will move to a new site, it's quite another to build from the ground up where you're unlikely to get much traffic at all I saw their instagram post yesterday and was so confused as to what it was related to. No one in the comments knew either. Strange. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted November 5, 2022 Author Share Posted November 5, 2022 5 hours ago, HyenaBoy said: So, they pretty much perma-banned the guy for literally no reason? It certainly seems that way yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 We now have a Discord server!! https://discord.gg/jANPycCmVd Feel free to join if you think you might be interested in contributing Manakin Skywalker and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2022 What kind of operation are you guys runnin' over there??? enderdrag64, Manakin Skywalker, Brando and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: What kind of operation are you guys runnin' over there??? Whoops didn't catch that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Stöhr 34 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Super late to this topic but I still have the backups from Scorepedia and also registered scorepedia.org again. If there is any interest I'd gladly hand over the files and can also help with setting up a server. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 3 hours ago, Marcus Stöhr said: Super late to this topic but I still have the backups from Scorepedia and also registered scorepedia.org again. If there is any interest I'd gladly hand over the files and can also help with setting up a server. Woah that could be awesome. Only problem is growing editor/visitor interest on a unique domain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smeltington 1,440 Posted February 9 Popular Post Share Posted February 9 It might just be people from JWFan. But we have so much knowledge, and it's spread out all across this forum... a wiki would be such a good home for it! Giftheck, KittBash, enderdrag64 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now