Which “End Credits” cue composed by Williams has the most themes?

[WampaRat 1,105]

I want to say it’s Force Awakens followed by Crystal Skull as a close second. The trouble is defining what constitutes a “theme”. Do we count “A themes” separately than “B themes”? Would you count an element of said theme that becomes its own motif throughout the score? (Thus the brilliance of the maestro!) So it’s hard to tally. I’m open to all interpretations as I’m not particularly musically literate.

 

(I know the OST albums have some cues joined together. So I didn’t count “Jedi Steps” as part of the end credits composition. Same with “The Wedding” going into the finale of Crystal Skull. But feel free to!)
 

 

Force Awakens:

1. “Woomph” (0:00)

(Luke’s theme/Rebel Fanfare)

2. Rey’s Theme (0:46)

3. Dark Force motif(?) into Kylo’s theme (2:00)(This might be considered one “theme”?)

4. Finn Theme (2:45)

5. Poe Theme (3:12)(Then back into Finn’s theme)

6. Resistance March (3:53)

7. Force theme (mixed with Rey’s theme) (5:18)

8.Lukes Theme (6:22)

 

Again. It’s a bit murky to me what bits could be considered their own themes/motifs. But we have about 7-9 musical identities floating around this composition potentially. 
 

Crystal Skull

1. Raiders March (0:00)

2. Irina’s theme (1:34)

3. Russian Theme (2:41)

    (Russian theme interlude(?) (3:13)

4. Mutt Theme (3:39)

5.Marion Theme (4:59)

 

 

This one kinda broke my brain a bit. (Marions theme is technically included in the Raiders March. So would you count it all as one theme??) Also, the Raiders B theme. Wasn’t sure if that counts as it’s own identity. And the Russian Material, that fantastic Azkaban/Tintin flute solo bit. So great. But it never appears in the score proper. Tough to tell if that would be considered it’s own one-off theme or a just an interlude to the Russian material)

 

In any case, even in Williams’ most elaborate end credits suites, I feel he juggles about 5-6 unique themes/motifs and then puts some of those through insane iterations (hello “Double Trouble”!). Force Awakens would still be a champion though pushing the limit to 7-9.

 

I could be completely off. Is there another behemoth End Credits suite bursting at the gills with themes/motifs that I’m missing? 

[Jay 37,336]

Lincoln - 5 themes

1. Freedom's Call
2. With Malice Towards None
3. The People's House
4. The American Process
5. Soldier Boy

 

War Horse - 6 themes

1. Narracotts
2. Playful Horse
3. Nature
4. Dartmoor
5. Bonding
6. Friendship

 

 

The BFG - 6 themes

1. Sophie's Theme
2. Family Theme
3. Giants
4. Giant Country
5. Bad Dreams
6. Friendship Theme

 

[WampaRat 1,105]

I had the sneaking suspicion to go back and listen to the BFG end credits haha. 
 

But yes, it seems he generally runs with 5-6 themes in his more elaborate end credit pieces. 
 

Force Awakens still seems to have the most though with 7-9 I think. Although, perhaps Rise of Skywalker miiight be getting close to it?

[Faleel 5,345]

What about TROS and TLJ?

 

1 Luke

2 Rebels Fanfare

3 We Go Together theme 1

4 Theme 2

5 Anthem of Evil

6 Imperial March

7 Rey's Theme

8 Throne Room

(9 if you include Rolling Thunder as a theme, even more if you break certain themes up by sections)

 

 

[Bespin 8,480]

It's either a Star Wars or a Potter!

[Chen G. 3,948]

22 hours ago, WampaRat said:

The trouble is defining what constitutes a “theme”. Do we count “A themes” separately than “B themes”? Would you count an element of said theme that becomes its own motif throughout the score?

 

There's never a perfectly defined line for how far we fragment the themes into their variants and composite parts: its largely why leitmotif lists for The Ring vary so greatly: from 84 (Lavignac) to 261 (Mikisch).

 

Its a question, in part, of how much the composite parts appear in isolation from one another and to what extent they develop distinct associations, but its also a question of their independent musical character. I believe Lavignac lists one "Freia theme" which in most catalogues is listed as two separate motives, and if you know the score you can definitely see the point of separating them: they have different musical characters, are mostly used independently from each other and have different associations.

 

Whereas the motive associated with Valhalla, which has many composite parts, is almost always counted as one motive even though we do hear its separate components independently, but they all have a very similar musical characters and they all carry the same associations. Likewise, Doug Adams used to list the Main Star Wars theme as two separate motives: they're not used independently of each other particularly, but they do have very distinct musical character.

 

For the purposes of Star Wars themes, I think using Frank Lehman's thematic catalogue is a sufficient starting point. He counts three different motives associated with Rey and two or three associated with Kylo Ren, and I believe all of those appear in the end-credits. So, by that "counting" that would constitute a fairly large amount of material and quite possibly the densest of Williams' ouvre.

[WampaRat 1,105]

1 hour ago, Roll the Bones said:

What about TROS and TLJ?

 

1 Luke

2 Rebels Fanfare

3 We Go Together theme 1

4 Theme 2

5 Anthem of Evil

6 Imperial March

7 Rey's Theme

8 Throne Room

(9 if you include Rolling Thunder as a theme, even more if you break certain themes up by sections)

 

 

Yes I was torn on this.

 

I think I’m just floored at how much fresh material he wrote for Force Awakens and how perfectly seasoned it is with legacy themes. The end credits just encapsulates that so well. The more I listen to it, the more perfect it is to me!

46 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

For the purposes of Star Wars themes, I think using Frank Lehman's thematic catalogue is a sufficient starting point. He counts three different motives associated with Rey and two or three associated with Kylo Ren, and I believe all of those appear in the end-credits. So, by that "counting" that would constitute a very large amount of material.

I definitely should have consulted this first! I can’t remember which recent interview it was with JW where they showed him this same catalog of all the Star Wars devices he wrote and he kinda went “who has that much time on their hands to put this together?” 😁 Quite the opus he’s created.

 

Interesting that his SW sequel scores 

seem to showcase the most themes/motifs where the OT and Prequel credit suites generally contained concert arrangements of 2-4ish themes.

[Chen G. 3,948]

11 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I definitely should have consulted this first! I can’t remember which recent interview it was with JW where they showed him this same catalog of all the Star Wars devices he wrote and he kinda went “who has that much time on their hands to put this together?” 😁 Quite the opus he’s created.

 

I believe his comment was "how exhausting!" 

 

The catalogue is different from what it would have been when it was shown to Williams, though.