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Jerry Goldsmith's HOLLOW MAN (2000) - NEW! 2022 Intrada


Jay
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Anyone know how Townson was unable to get perpetuity rights for Varese when they released the OST album to this?

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14 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone know how Townson was unable to get perpetuity rights for Varese when they released the OST album to this?

 

I dunno exactly but it fits the pattern for the three Goldsmith/Verhoeven collaborations -- Varese released the OSTs for all three of them, and then the original single disc Deluxe Edition expansion of Total Recall, but Quartet Records was later able to revisit that with their definitive 2CD release, and earlier Prometheus (and later Quartet again) expanded Basic Instinct. So in light of that maybe the Hollow Man expansion coming from Intrada isn't so big of a surprise...

 

Matinee earlier this year surprised me a bit more considering Varese did get Gremlins 2 in perpetuity (plus other Universal projects).

 

Yavar

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Surely the director of the film has no relation to the contract signed for releasing a soundtrack album by a musical label

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7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Surely the director of the film has no relation to the contract signed for releasing a soundtrack album by a musical label


Seems possible… otherwise it’s one hell of a coincidence, don’t you agree?

 

Yavar

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While Varese was able to retain perpetuity rights for the vast majority of the scores that they released the initial score album for in the 90s and 00s, there are at least a dozen times they did not

 

  1. 1989 - Pet Sematary (Elliot Goldenthal) - Paramount Pictures - 2013 La-La Land
  2. 1990 - Total Recall (Jerry Goldsmith) - Carolco Pictures - 2015 Quartet
  3. 1991 - Dead Again (Patrick Doyle) - Paramount Pictures - 2014 La-La Land
  4. 1991 - Soap Dish (Alan Silvestri ) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet
  5. 1992 - Basic Instinct (Jerry Goldsmith) - TriStar Pictures - 2015 Quartet
  6. 1992 - Cool World (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet
  7. 1993 - Matinee (Jerry Goldsmith) - Universal Pictures - 2022 Intrada
  8. 1993 - Fire In The Sky (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land
  9. 1993 - Flesh and Bone (Thomas Newman) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land
  10. 1994 - Iron Will (Joel McNeely) - Walt Disney Pictures - 2019 Intrada
  11. 1996 - First Wives Club (Marc Shaiman) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land
  12. 2000 - Hollow Man (Jerry Goldsmith) - Columbia Pictures - 2022 Intrada
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7 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Cool. Any Goldsmith score is a must buy.

 

Fixed it for ya. ;) 

 

19 minutes ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

nice! IIRC the DVD back then included Jerry Goldsmith's audio commentary for the entire movie. That was fun. :)

 

An *incredible* audio commentary, I might add, which made all who listened to it realize that Goldsmith *could* talk musically in depth about his work!

 

Yavar

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37 minutes ago, Jay said:

While Varese was able to retain perpetuity rights for the vast majority of the scores they released the initial score album for, there are at least 8 times they did not

 

1984 - Top Secret! (Maurice Jarre) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land
1990 - Total Recall (Jerry Goldsmith) - Carolco Pictures - 2015 Quartet
1991 - Dead Again (Patrick Doyle) - Paramount Pictures - 2014 La-La Land
1992 - Basic Instinct (Jerry Goldsmith) - TriStar Pictures - 2015 Quartet

1992 - Cool World (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet
1993 - Matinee (Jerry Goldsmith) - Universal Pictures - 2022 Intrada
1995 - Psycho II (Jerry Goldsmith) - Universal Pictures - 2014 Intrada
2000 - Hollow Man (Jerry Goldsmith) - Columbia Pictures - 2022 Intrada

 

I don't know if any patterns can be found here, or if its just random circumstances that lead to them not getting it

 

Couple problems with this list:

1) Varese only started retaining perpetuity rights as standard at some point in 1989 (after Leviathan -- we know they don't control that one). So Top Secret is nothing worthy of note at all -- they almost never got perpetuity rights to scores in the 80s. That's why other labels were able to revisit things like Goldsmith's The Secret of NIMH, Link, Rambo: First Blood Part II, and Supergirl (plus a lot of other non-Goldsmith scores from the 80s).

2) Varese didn't release an initial score album for Psycho II. That was originally released on MCA Records (so owned by Universal Music Group) -- just like Explorers and the album recording of Masada, both of which Varese also premiered on CD like Psycho II, but sub-licensed the albums from UMG. 

 

Another title that should be on your list is Elliot Goldenthal's Pet Sematary (expanded by LLL), and I think there are a few other non-Goldsmiths out there too but I can't think of them off the top of my head. EDIT: Oh! I just remembered three more scores more originally released by Varese in the 90s that LLL expanded recently:

https://lalalandrecords.com/fire-in-the-sky-limited-edition/

https://lalalandrecords.com/flesh-and-bone-limited-edition/

https://lalalandrecords.com/first-wives-club-the-limited-edition/


Yavar

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Thanks - updated!

 

You've still got Psycho II on the list. You don't have Masada or Explorers there, and it's in the same boat as them. I added three more 90s Varese titles which got expanded by LLL, in my previous post... I think there are more (maybe a couple by Quartet) so when/if I think of them, I'll mention them.

 

Yavar

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All set

 

The big pattern so far is that 6 of the 10 titles Varese didn't get perpetuity rights for are Paramount Pictures titles


So that gives hope that another label could do other Paramount flicks that Varese did the initial score album for, like Shaiman's Addams Family Values

 

 

And interestingly, we know that Sony Music THOUGHT Paramount gave them perpetuity rights to Star Trek TMP back in 1979, when it was only a 15 year contract and they illegally released their expansion in 1999.  So maybe that's been a thing with Paramount since forever?  So maybe any Paramount score that came out on any label that isn't in print any more could be expanded by any specialty label directly through Paramount like the 2022 Star Trek TMP was done between LLL and Paramount directly?

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What does that have to do with Jerry's Hollow Man score?

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Marc Shaiman's ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES (1994)

Oh yeah, I hope they do... Shaiman's two Addams Family scores are terrific. The sequel deserves the same treatment as the original.

 

But I digress. Yay for Hollow Man. I think I bought the DVD for the isolated score/commentary. Might have to dig that out. I have to admit that I don't recall being totally convinced I needed significantly more music from this one, but I'll get it anyway as, you know, it's Jerry.

 

Another digression, I really like the 1999 ST:TMP sequencing. It's like the perfect tone poem version of the score that has all the best parts (unlike the OST which misses out too many of the best parts) but some of those shorter cues (the TV theme/warp speed cues in particular) are fun but don't add much, although I do like when they finally get to warp speed and the passage resolves in a way it didn't when they failed to do so earlier. Enough digression. Need sleep.

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23 minutes ago, Jay said:

All set

 

The big pattern so far is that 6 of the 10 titles Varese didn't get perpetuity rights for are Paramount Pictures titles


So that gives hope that another label could do other Paramount flicks that Varese did the initial score album for, like Shaiman's Addams Family Values

 

Alas, I'm pretty sure MV looked into it and publicly posted that Varese controls Addams Family Values in perpetuity and therefore LLL won't be expanding it. They've gotten other Paramount Goldsmiths in perpetuity too, such as Star Trek: Nemesis (and the Giacchino Treks for that matter), and Along Came a Spider... presumably they control both the Brian Tyler and Jerry Goldsmith scores for Timeline in perpetuity...

 

Yavar

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Nemesis and the Giacchino Trek expansions were released within 15 years after initial release!  We don't know they have perpetuity rights, just that they still had rights when the expansions came to be

 

Along Came A Spider is a good point, thought.


As for Addams Family Values, do we know if MV investigated and confirmed Varese still has it, or did he assume Varese still had it?

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12 hours ago, Jay said:

1992 - Cool World (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet

Wooo. Probably my fav Quartet Records release, lol.

 

Anyhow, whoever has the rights to Addams Family Values, I hope they do a decent expansion sometime (surely there's more material than the 38 minutes of the original release). Also 4K bluray release please.

 

Excited for HOLLOW MAN.

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As recently there was some discussion about the Basic Instinct score, now listening to Hollow Man this sounded to me pretty much like more of the same. But so far I just listened to the main title.

I guess, the 90s are not my favourite period of Goldsmith's work.

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The covers are based on two of the DVD covers (hence likely the artwork they could choose from) and the one with Bacon and Shue looks pretty bad - like what happens if you press down on the cellophane of an unwrapped DVD and sunlight makes the cover look weird.

 

Actually, I don't like either of them, but a) that's the movie's marketing people, and b) I'm not buying this.

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13 hours ago, Jay said:

Nemesis and the Giacchino Trek expansions were released within 15 years after initial release!  We don't know they have perpetuity rights, just that they still had rights when the expansions came to be

 

Along Came A Spider is a good point, thought.


As for Addams Family Values, do we know if MV investigated and confirmed Varese still has it, or did he assume Varese still had it?

 

Quote

I'm looking forward to this. I think ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES is the superior film, but this is the superior score.
Loved both movies as a kid, I hope they will follow up with VALUES at some point!


Wish we could do it, but it is Varese territory.
MV

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=103967&forumID=1&archive=0

 

I'm guessing MV actually investigated.

 

Yavar

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I'd say that quote is ambiguous enough to not reveal either way!

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I'm really looking forward to discovering this one; I saw the film in theaters in 2000, but haven't seen it since, and I don't think I ever listened to the OST album or a rip of the isolated score track

 

I also like it when specialty labels are able to get their scores to spooky films out before Halloween :)

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It's one of my favourites out of those Goldsmith scores that are few people's favourites. Also, I somehow misplaced the cover inlay of my Varese CD some 20 odd years ago (in my flat… no idea how that happened), so it'll be nice to have a proper looking version again.

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Though shipping fees being what they are really make me second-guess this buy. Fake says it's Goldsmith longest recorded score, which seems ludicrous when you look at the picture (did Verhoeven secretly cut a second part or a cinema verité version?).

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No but in addition to the considerable length of the main program (already up there with the longest Goldsmith scores) there’s just a whopping 48 minutes of recorded alternates, some of them fairly significant. Don’t judge the length by the previously available isolated score track, which conformed only to what was used in the film.

 

Yavar

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Gee, to know Goldsmith was sick during that year and was forced to write 'fairly significant alternates' for this piece of shit movie is sad. The 70 minutes that ended up in the movie are already much too good for it.

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A list of the sketches held by the Academy (https://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71303051)

 

Quote

1-1 "The Hollow Man," 4 pages;

1-2 "The Rat," 1 page;

1-3 "Lady in the Window," 2 pages;

1-4 "I'm a Genius," 2 pages;

1-6 [Pickup], 1 page;

1-6 "Chasing Isabelle," 5 pages;

Sweetener, 1 page;

1-7 "Isabelle Comes Back (revised)," 12 pages;

2-1 "Linda and Sebastian (old)," 4 pages;

2-1a "The Pentagon (new)," 2 pages [photocopy, 2 pages];

2-3 "This is Science," 12 pages;

2-4 "Not Here," 2 pages;

3-1 "The Buttons," 4 pages; photocopy, 4 pages; old page 3, 1 page;

3-2 "Coffee Break," 2 pages;

3-3 "Never There," 3 pages;

3-4 "Not Right," 6 pages;

3-5 "What Went Wrong?," 3 pages;

3-7 "In the Mirror," 1 page;

3-7 "In the Mirror (new)," 1 page;

3-10 "Why Not," 1 page;

4-1 "I Can't See Him," 2 pages;

4-1a "I Can't See Him," 6 pages;

4-1b "I Can't See Him (new)," 3 pages;

4-2 [Pickup], 1 page;

4-2 "I Liked It," 2 pages;

4-3 "Not Yet (revised)," 2 pages;

4-3 "Not Yet (new)," 2 pages;

4-4 "Broken Window," 6 pages;

4-4 "Broken Window (new)," 3 pages;

4-5 "No Pain," 1 page;

4-5 "He's Here (new)," 5 pages;

4-6 "A Fact of Life," 2 pages;

4-7 "False Image," 5 pages;

4-8 "No Prize," 1 page;

5-1 "Hi, Boss," 5 pages;

5-2 "No Code," 9 pages;

5-3 "Find Him," 11 pages [no page 10; parts of this page were cut and pasted into the "new" version that follows];

5-3 "Find Him (new)," 3 pages [photocopy, 3 pages];

5-4 "Bloody Floor," 10 pages;

5-4 "Bloody Floor (new)," 1 page;

6-1 "Linda Takes Action," 12 pages;

6-2 "Wet Attack," 2 pages;

6-2 "Wet Attack (new)," 1 page;

6-2 "Wet Attack (new)," 3 pages;

6-2a [no title], 1 page;

6-3 "The Elevator," 6 pages;

6-4 [The Big Climb], 4 pages [no page 1];

6-4 "The Big Climb (new)," 2 pages;

6-4b "The Big Climb (new)," 3 pages

 

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23 hours ago, publicist said:

Gee, to know Goldsmith was sick during that year and was forced to write 'fairly significant alternates' for this piece of shit movie is sad. The 70 minutes that ended up in the movie are already much too good for it.

 

Right at the end of his commentary of the iso score he indicates that he'd like to do any sequel that happens, so while you may think it's rubbish, he clearly enjoyed doing it.

 

It sounds like the exact opposite experience he had on The Mummy. Which is odd, because I like that film, whereas I do agree with you on this movie.

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4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Right at the end of his commentary of the iso score he indicates that he'd like to do any sequel that happens, so while you may think it's rubbish, he clearly enjoyed doing it.

 

I attribute this to Verhoeven. Several times through the commentary he actually says aloud how boring the next 20 minutes are gonna be.

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59 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

I attribute this to Verhoeven. Several times through the commentary he actually says aloud how boring the next 20 minutes are gonna be.

 

Even so, does it really matter how bad the film is if the score is good. Goldsmith made half a career from scoring awful films.

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37 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Even so, does it really matter how bad the film is if the score is good. Goldsmith made half a career from scoring awful films.

 

Phrased in such a broad way, probably not. But as i said initially, going by what happened to JG on a personal basis at exactly this time coupled with the hefty amount of writing on this particular movie struck me as kind of...sad.

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Yeah I get what you mean. On the completely wrong project it could be a nightmare, but I guess it depends on whether he thought the film was boring and he was doing his best to make it interesting with music, or whether the composing process was boring but he liked working with Verhoeven.

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I remember listening to a few minutes of the group commentary for the movie and, compared to his other commentaries, Verhoeven's lack of enthusiasm was so palpable that I barely registered that he was present

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