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The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes


Chen G.

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This show...is not some abysmal, flat-on-face catastrophe.

 

But I can't say I was feeling anything beyond "oh, this is pleasant, you know?" at the best of times. More detailed thoughts after some sleep and a rewatch.

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Well it’s not as terrible as I thought it would be. In a way, I was impressed by that but there are definitely some things to roll your eyes over in both episodes. It’s not as diminished a return as I thought it would be. The short-haired elves do have a really hard time rocking those robes. They look like they belong in an overwrought Roman epic.

 

The Sauron theme sounds even dinkier and cliche in the show. I still just can’t get behind the Galadriel material. It plays a lot but never more than the opening phrases in different orchestrations. I was really hoping for actual score instead of just placing themes all over the place, barely changed. The Khazad-Dum stuff has a few moments where it isn’t too bothersome but then when the theme plays over the end credits you can hear how hollow and simple it is.

 

I feel more positively about the show and more negatively about the music. It’s an ironic reversal of my expectations a few months ago when Bear and Shore were announced. I thought the music would be the only worthwhile part of this while I’d probably have to suffer through the show and now it’s the music I must suffer to watch some relatively decent television.

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1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

I look forward to months (years?) of watching you whine about how no one else hates the music.

Hahahah, it will end soon I hope. I’m just a huge Howard Shore fan. I got to see the Hobbit Suite premiered in Pittsburgh and I met him and asked him a theory question and he was kind enough to answer and not seem put out or annoyed (although he very well may have been, he had the decency not to show it.) I really respect the man and his work. I wouldn’t say something as silly as “it feels personal” but the whole thing is close to my fanboyish heart in a way not many other things are.


I hadn’t been this excited for a continuation of musical world since maybe the Star Wars prequels and my excitement blinded me to the point where I truly believed it would be good no matter what. I hadn’t realized that until Galadriel landed.

 

Now I know I would never have been given an opportunity like this. I’ve also never felt the pressure of a big studio. So a lot of my ranting is for an ideal, regardless of the reality. They are plenty of people who will just compare it to other TV music and “ be realistic” about it. I just feel like someone out there has to fight for the ideal sometimes.

 

When I liked Rogue One and it seemed so many people didn’t, I fought for it so I’m not mad at the people who are enjoying the music. They seem to be mad at me, though. I’m probably as baffled as those Rogue One disparagers were with me at the time but I let them find each other and have their day. I’m just out here trying to engage with like-minded individuals; I don’t know many people who listen to this kind of music.

 

So my mind is still full of disappointment. Who knows, by the end of season two I might have warmed up to the music. I can’t predict the future. I’m not still going on and on about how over-rated The Batman was, but my friends and acquaintances had to hear about it for a little while. We’ll all get through it together ;)

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28 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

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This line is in the show almost verbatim.

 

Also, before Elrond enters Khazad Dum, he speaks about "tables filled with salted pork and enough malt beer to fill the Anduin." And its actually by far the strongest part of the show thus far!

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As a casual LOTR fan, I really enjoyed this! Thoroughly exceeded my expectations, especially after reading all the negativity here :P

 

The score in particular works a treat. Galadriel's theme is a real keeper, especially the French horn rendition in episode one.

 

Not going to concern myself with how accurate it is to Tolkien's writings; personally I think that's a foolish endeavour. Adaptations are, by definition, not intended to be replicas of the source material. Even Jackson took some artistic liberties in his trilogies, some more successful than others.

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The themes for Galadriel, Nori, Durin and “The Stranger” are all really great. I also love the somber horns for Elendil and Isildur. Bear knocked it out of the park as far as I’m concerned.

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6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

To me its ️ out of 

 

Aramayo's Elrond is great and everything with the Dwarves is gold. The rest... eh...

Apparently I just love Dwarves because I agree. I loved The Hobbits a lot more as well. I thought the Dwarves were all wonderfully unique and lovable and I really cared for them. I think the Dwarves are so far the most successful depiction of a culture in the show. I smiled a few times.

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2 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

I'm not concerned with absolute fidelity to Tolkien's writing. It would be foolhardy to attempt such a thing in adaptation, and it probably wouldn't make for good entertainment if they tried.  But that said, there is some room for nuance here, and I do distinguish between the liberties that Jackson & Co. took with the text in adapting Tolkien's book, and the wholesale fan fiction this series is. I see a lot of people conflating the two, and I think it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

I won't have a chance to watch until later tonight, but people who I trust have told me, more than anything, that it's not bad but...boring. Which is probably worse than being bad.

 

Though I'm sure the production values are sky-high.

 

 

 

100%. You cannot be 100% true to everything because again, the mediums are different. Well said about the idea of liberties and outright fan fiction, I think you nailed it.

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So far, it's a grade B show in comparison to the grade A of GoT or HotD. It's decent enough that I'll keep watching. With just 2 episodes out of 8, things better pick up in the ep 3.

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11 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

...I do distinguish between the liberties that Jackson & Co. took with the text in adapting Tolkien's book, and the wholesale fan fiction this series is; . I see a lot of people conflating the two...

 

One doesn't have to conflate those two phenomena to acknowledge that neither of the works is close to Tolkien's. Jackson's is in terms of its plot, but its deviations in tone, style and attitude are far more than mere liberties with the text. (I'm not saying that that is inherently a vice; Tolkien's artistic sensibilities aren't in any way supreme or infallible.)

 

I do, on the other hand, see a lot of ardent Jacksonians condemning works such as this Amazon thing on the basis of how Tolkien would feel about it. It's fair to point out the inconsistency in that.

 

 

11 hours ago, blondheim said:

Apparently I just love Dwarves

 

:up:

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26 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The thing about the cinematic Dwarves is, they're like Klingons in terms of the race being a set of stereotypes. If you're into them (and I am), and they look and act like the template for Dwarves or Klingons, and reflect that culture and set of behaviors you've come to expect, you're going to enjoy them

 

Depends on the Dwarf, but yeah, sure. I mean, in terms of the Dwarves being humourosly-cantankerous Scotsmen, Amazon went with the most prominent practitioner of that longstanding tradition in Peter Mullan, scene-stealing in a single brief scene towards the end of the second episode.

 

But I also enjoyed the dynamic with Elrond (who is totally the MVP of the show) and the visuals of Khazad Dum. Some of the extras look hokey, but they're not dwelled upon all that much.

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28 minutes ago, Servant of Morgoth said:

He did. Because I think he is just more than a Middle Man from the Southlands

I almost hope he is Sauron just so I can rationalize that they don’t care about mystery-boxing that plot. I have doubts that he is, although I think they really want us to suspect him

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2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Gandalf's arrival, aside from the Gaimanesque comet spectacle, I also enjoy very much, and despite my misgivings it's a brilliant idea of explaining both his fondness of Halflings and their appearance in the story at this stage.

 

What makes it Gaimanesque? I assume you are referring to Neil Gaiman.

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Watched the first episode. The production values are film quality. The visuals are incredible. Not sure how I feel about all the plotlines yet but I like Galadriel's stuff a lot. The music is also great, it's a rich and layered orchestral sound. Really well made show. 

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I enjoyed the first two episodes. But enjoyable as it is, it all felt a bit pointless, like Galadriel’s journey on the sea and back (that I understand is completely made up and not in the source material - and it really didn’t add anything).

 

But beautiful and of cinematic quality, good acting, fantastic FX. I’m looking forward for the plot to move forward and get a better grasp of the story.

 

But what is up with people bombing - both love and hate - on the review sites these days? At this point it’s just the lovers and the haters going head to head with no room for honest reviews.


IMDb:

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I was impresed by the two episodes, they could almost fit with jacksons version.

 

the music is not bad, but it could have been amazing if shore had composed the twenty odd main character themes….

 

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While I haven't seen the show, @Quintus, who is banned at the moment and thus cannot write this himself, asked me to convey a message to you all that he has watched the first episodes of this show and loves it.

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I'm amazed by this positive reaction: quite aside from any Tolkien-based reservations, I found it...pleasant but dull. The first episode, taken in isolation, was a crashing bore of frenetic editing that cut from one locale to the other, and the prologue all but redundant.

 

The second episode picked-up considerably, and both benefit enormously from Aramayo's delightful Elrond and from great visuals. However, some of the storylines - the Harfoots and especially Tirharad, namely - are duds.

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Numenore isn't in this until episode 3...

 

But the Dwarves are in episode 2 and it does improve considerably on the first, partially as a result of their presence.

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I think the series is absolutely fine, which is definitely helped by lavish production values. There's nothing particularly "great" about it but I enjoy the first two episodes more than I did The Hobbit trilogy. It doesn't necessarily mean much but I am willing to stick with it for an hour every week in order to visit pretty fantasy land. As I am not a Tolkien scholar it is perfectly fine for me to watch this completely detached from any preconceived notions. Yeah, from storytelling perspective some of it might feel bit stilted but the actors make it enjoyable. I particularly liked the stuff with Durin in the second episode.

 

I am somewhat amused by the "is but isn't" Jackson's Middle-earth approach. They clearly want to milk that but cannot do that too closely. Which might be, in a way, a good thing. This corporate calibrating is hilarious though. 

 

The music is mostly enjoyable but doesn't yet offer much in terms of storytelling nuance of Howard Shore. It is very competent and, once again, broadly evokes what came before. But there's a certain stodginess to the writing that prevents it from really taking off. But then, I suppose they need to first establish thematic material so that it can be played with later. Or at least I hope they will. So far I gave a listen to the suites on the series compilation album and the first episode's album and it was a pleasant enough couple of hours. I like the Gandalf's eerie theme and some of the Harfoot and Elf stuff. If you think about it, having Bear McCreary and his team handle this series is probably one of the best outcomes possible.

 

Karol

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10 hours ago, Doctor Faust said:

What makes it Gaimanesque? I assume you are referring to Neil Gaiman.

 

Gandalf's arrival is pretty much the same as Yvaine's in Stardust.

 

5 hours ago, rough cut said:

But what is up with people bombing - both love and hate - on the review sites these days? At this point it’s just the lovers and the haters going head to head with no room for honest reviews.

 

Yes, looking at the overall IMDb rating, it seems very controversial, but when I clicked on the reviews, I got about half of brief 10/10 and half of reserved but mostly positive comments.

 

7 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I am somewhat amused by the "is but isn't" Jackson's Middle-earth approach. They clearly want to milk that but cannot do that too closely. Which might be, in a way, a good thing. This corporate calibrating is hilarious though. 

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, because they clearly replicate pretty much all that they can/should from the PJ films (down to the colour grading). What's different to me just seemed to be what the source material/a couple of thousand years difference necessiates.

 

Well, except for the Elves' hairstyles, perhaps (which I didn't even notice, to be honest). You could argue that fashion has changed a bit over a few millennia, but you could also argue that this is unlikely for the Elves of all peoples. In any case, they seem to have gotten the hair colours right, so that's something.

 

But I *still* don't know where the idea of pointy ears came from in the first place.

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5 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, because they clearly replicate pretty much all that they can/should from the PJ films (down to the colour grading). What's different to me just seemed to be what the source material/a couple of thousand years difference necessiates.

Oh sure, you can absolutely justify that. And I'm fine with it. What I'm referring to is mostly the legal minefield of "we want to cash in on this look but were told by our lawyers and Tolkien estate not to reference it". It must have been a tricky balance to strike. I find it amusing.

 

Karol

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5 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Oh sure, you can absolutely justify that. And I'm fine with it. What I'm referring to is mostly the legal minefield of "we want to cash in on this look but were told by our lawyers and Tolkien estate not to reference it". It must have been a tricky balance to strike. I find it amusing.

 

I understand what you mean, but I don't think I've seen it in the show. Can you give an example? What I did notice is the legal minefield of "we're telling a story that's very much connected to important events in the First Age, but we don't have the rights to that, so we can only allued to them or show them for a few split seconds".

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23 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I understand what you mean, but I don't think I've seen it in the show. Can you give an example? What I did notice is the legal minefield of "we're telling a story that's very much connected to important events in the First Age, but we don't have the rights to that, so we can only allued to them or show them for a few split seconds".

It wasn't my intention to take it all apart. Just a general impression I get from watching. It doesn't detract from anything though. :)

 

Karol

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I'm not trying to argue, just trying to figure out if it's something I missed or if it's something that really depends more on the source material than you're aware. Not that it's important, really. :) And I guess after a few more episodes, it'll be easier to tell.

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Yeah I have to say the show is way more enjoyable and decent than I expected from the advance marketing. I have at least a shred of hope that it will be fun to watch for the next five years, despite the occasional eye-rolling that I’m sure will continue

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I like it so far - there have been no egregious sins against the world or characters, the “vibes” are well done, the music is sublime, everyone involved clearly does know their Tolkien and is trying to do a good job. It’s not perfect but I have no serious complaints and, for a new Tolkien adaption, that is most impressive.

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4 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Yes, looking at the overall IMDb rating, it seems very controversial, but when I clicked on the reviews, I got about half of brief 10/10 and half of reserved but mostly positive comments.

 

It's mostly positive because Amazon, who owns IMDB, have been removing literally every single reviews that are below 6 stars. Which is frankly astonishing. 

I expected the show to be awful, I ended up enjoying it quite a lot, but this practice is really disgusting in my opinion. 

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