Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

43 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Another small nitpick. Am I the only one who absolutely hates that it's being called:

The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power.

 

The only thing that you can call Lord Of The Rings are those books and those 3 films. All the other stories aren't that. They should've either called is just The Rings Of Power or something with Middle Earth in it.

 

In my library I've changed the names of the albums as well.

They all just begin with The Rings Of Power. I just can't put The Lord Of The Rings in front of it. It doesn't fit

I've done the same but more because it seems an unnecessary addition to the title... then again I still put Star Trek in front of everything I'm unlikely to forget that DS9/Voyager/Discovery/Insert Name of New Series Here is part of Star Trek!

[Holko 9,499]

52 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Another small nitpick. Am I the only one who absolutely hates that it's being called:

The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power.

 

The only thing that you can call Lord Of The Rings are those books and those 3 films. All the other stories aren't that. They should've either called is just The Rings Of Power or something with Middle Earth in it.

 

In my library I've changed the names of the albums as well.

They all just begin with The Rings Of Power. I just can't put The Lord Of The Rings in front of it. It doesn't fit

The worst part by far is how badly the two titles fit together. Or rather they don't.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Meh, I never make too much fuss about titles. The War of the Rohirrim deserves to be called Lord of the Rings even less than The Rings of Power, but I’m still intrigued by it.

 

The show wouldn’t have been one iota better no matter what name you’d stick it with.

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

28 minutes ago, Holko said:

The worst part by far is how badly the two titles fit together. Or rather they don't.

The Lord of the Rings of Power... problem solved.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

I agree the title is awkward, but given the necessities of marketing, I get it. Not crazy about it, but I get it.

 

In any event, the title is the least of this show's problems.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

The Lord of the Rings of Power... problem solved.

 

The Durin & Elrond Comedy Hour?

Meteor Man and the Little People?

[Pellaeon 593]

3 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Another small nitpick. Am I the only one who absolutely hates that it's being called:

The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power.

 

The only thing that you can call Lord Of The Rings are those books and those 3 films. All the other stories aren't that. They should've either called is just The Rings Of Power or something with Middle Earth in it.

 

In my library I've changed the names of the albums as well.

They all just begin with The Rings Of Power. I just can't put The Lord Of The Rings in front of it. It doesn't fit

 

Just remember this IS a spinoff of The Lord of the Rings and nothing else. Again, here I have highlighted the works upon which this show is based:

 

[Chen G. 3,944]

And of those two works The Hobbit is all but irrelevant: its really just parts of Appendix A, little bits of Appendix B, some mentions from within the pages of The Lord of the Rings proper: you end up with I want to say a maybe 40-page outline of the events.

 

Which, fine by me if this was a more eventful, gripping show with engaging characters and plot developments that made more sense. Alas...

[Jay 37,319]

The Rings of Power 1x04 The Great Wave

 

The season is half over, and the title rings have still not been seen!  Will they start getting forged by the end of this season?  Surely by the end of the next at the latest?

 

No Harfeet and Stranger this week - I guess that's nicely placed since they are all migrating from one place to another.  Boy, these episodes are really long, and I can only imagine how they'd be if they tried to fit every storyline into every one!  Even Halbrand, though he was in this episode, pretty much had nothing to do except decide to stay in Numenor for... reasons?

 

 

Miriel & Galadriel - I'm not sure if I'm a fan of Miriel (and then Galadriel) having a vision of the downfall of Numenor, therefore knowing it's coming instead of it being an unexpected outcome.  Hmm.  I'm also a bit unclear about why relations between Numenor men and elves really fell apart (it's gotta be more than the sentiment in that that "they took our jobs" scene), so much so that they rebelled against the king because he was for a reunion?  Maybe it will be explained better later... I'm also not clear about why petals falling off the white tree at the end causes Miriel to decide to go with Galadriel to Middle-Earth to help in the Southlands after all?

 

Isildur & Eärien - I'm trying to figure out what purpose Eärien serves in this show; She's studying to be an architect, but we're also being told bluntly that Numenor is going to be destroyed by a giant wave, so what is she going to do with this knowledge?  I thought it was interesting that Isildul can't deny his call to the west and will

 

Arondir & Adar - After the build-up at the end of the last episode, I was a bit underwhelmed by the full debut of Adar.  I thought he was going to be Sauron, or at least be interesting and cool in some way, but he was kind of generic, and seems to be just another one of Sauron's lackeys.  I suppose it makes sense that he lets Arondir free in order to tell the men of that village that they must swear fealty to him or will be killed, and it was a nice tie-in to Theo's story that he rescued him on his way back.

Bronwyn & Theo - I'm a bit surprised after playing such a big role in the first 2 episodes and then not appearing in 3 at all that Bronwyn wasn't given much to do here, but surprisingly I still found her reunion with Arondir at the end of the episode nice and touching.  Theo and his friend's trip to the village and attack by orcs was pretty decent suspense/action stuff, as cliched as some of it was (I swear this is like the 3rd time recently I've seen the "hiding from the bad guys by holding your breath underwater" recently).  Something about the Sauron sword is sort of rubbing me the wrong way, I don't know how to explain it other than it doesn't feel Tolkein-y to me?  A sword hilt that magically re-forms from human blood?  I dunno.  I thought it was interesting that some of the elve's fears from the first episode was proven right when it was revealed there was indeed a Morgoth/Sauron in the midst of the village, which explains why the sword was in that basement.

 

Elrond & Durin - Man, all the scenes with these guys are the best in the episode, and they were the best in episode 2 as well, so it's kind of shocking that with the season half over now, they only had scenes in half of the episodes.  Hopefully by season's end it balances out.  I am glad the mystery of what the Durins had in that box was revealed in this one - mithril!  To me this made total sense.  I don't recall if there is supposed to be any mithril in any of the rings of power or not, but it was nice to check in with Celebrimbor and see his project is underway.  Disa is turning out to be one of my favorite characters, the actress brings a really fun energy to the role that elevates scenes with her quite a bit, and her relationship with Durin IV is awesome.  The conversation Elrond and Durin IV have about their fathers was certainly one of the best written scenes the show has had yet from a dialogue standpoint, and the subsequent reconciliation between Durin IV and Durin III was really sweet.  What I thought was really interesting was the sort of duplicitous nature of Durin IV, where on the one hand he brings Elrond into his circle of trust and tells him about the mithril, but on the other hand he is going to go spy on what the elves are up to and report back to his father.  I'm interested to see where all this goes!

[Chen G. 3,944]

Episode 6: not madcap like I thought it would be, but still underwhelming and, ultimately, silly.

[crocodile 7,988]

It was entertaining.

 

Karol

[Chen G. 3,944]

Its like they saw the kind of convoluted backstories that Fantastic Beasts gave to Nagini ("Oh, you think she's just a magic snake? Lol, actually she was once this woman, cool ainnit?) and that Solo gave to the Falcon ("Oh, you thought the Falcon had that fancy navigation computer because that's just the way it is? Lol, actualy it was once this very outspoken Droid of Lando's that got shot and was fused into the ship, cool ainnit?) and decided they could one-up that by giving Mordor a backstory nobody asked for.

[Barnald 365]

Apparently everything and everyone needs a (crap and unnecessary) backstory now. How refreshing it was for Better Call Saul to resist the temptation to delve into Gus' (obviously eventful) past in Chile, and just leave it one big tantalizing mystery. But there was a writing team who knew what they were doing...

[Chen G. 3,944]

Yeah. Just, having Mordor created onscreen... big no-no for me.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

 

Spoiler

Really enjoy the show and the score is incredible but find it really hard to believe that Galadriel or any one else wouldn’t check what was in the sword holder thing

 

[jpmatlack 29]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah. Just, having Mordor created onscreen... big no-no for me.

Then why are you watching?  We knew that was going to happen from Day 1… I’m surprised it happened this quickly but it was always going to happen. 

[Chen G. 3,944]

I'm reviewing it for Fellowship of Fans. Literally just recorded a video discussion about it with some lovely company.

[Jay 37,319]

What music did Episode 6 use for its end credits?

[Knight of Ren 787]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

What music did Episode 6 use for its end credits?

It's the album version of Nolwa Mathar, perhaps a bit shortened, but more complete than what appears in the episode itself.

 

Also, about this theme, do you all think it will be expanded and used in different settings in other episodes, or perhaps is a one-off like for example "Water and Flame"?

[Jay 37,319]

My speculation is that Bear wouldn't have described it as a "theme" if it was only going to be used in one cue.

But we'll see!

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

4 hours ago, Barnald said:

Apparently everything and everyone needs a (crap and unnecessary) backstory now. 

 

This is truly awful. West Side Story did a backstory for Maria's red belt on the white dress. I was like WHAT ON EARTH. Now even a dress cannot be a dress. Everything needs an explanation. 

 

3 hours ago, Knight of Ren said:

It's the album version of Nolwa Mathar, perhaps a bit shortened, but more complete than what appears in the episode itself.

 

Also, about this theme, do you all think it will be expanded and used in different settings in other episodes, or perhaps is a one-off like for example "Water and Flame"?

 

I think it is a theme. He said specifically that once he wrote it - he was like this is just too good to be a one off. I agree with him and I'm happy he made it a theme.

 

I think we will see how he uses it again this season or next season but I think given the translation "Noble Warrior" he will use if for great individual feats by one of the good guys - like Galadriel chasing Adar. Now most of the good guys have themes, Galadriel too - but he clearly felt something extra was needed for some big moments. 

[jpmatlack 29]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I'm reviewing it for Fellowship of Fans. Literally just recorded a video discussion about it with some lovely company.

May your sacrifice in the face of such grief be long remembered. “Greater love has no man than this: that he lay down his life for his friend.”  Surely your self-giving will speed you to the shores of the Blessed Lands. 

[Pellaeon 593]

So if Chen didn’t watch it, his co-hosts would just be like, “You have NOTT seen what we have seen.”

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

Good grief, that was awful.

 

The show is just full of poorly written, cliché-ridden TV tropes has little to do with Tolkien. It's getting worse, not better, by the week.  It has the same beats, and flaws, of any other average streaming show, except that it has that huge budget. And what of that budget?  Yes, the settings are spectacular and very well done. But the big, epic battle they were leading up to felt decidedly small scale, and even...amateurish. And the writing...my God...when you start having your supposedly brilliant and heroic main characters act stupidly in order to move the plot forward (e.g. the misdirection with the evil sword that was obvious from the get go) you know you've hit rock bottom.

 

I’ve seen people praising episode 6 as “one of the greatest hours of TV ever”, and to each their own, I don’t begrudge anyone enjoying the show. But to me, at this point all ROP is doing is taking away the mystery and magic of Middle-Earth by strip mining its history to facilitate made up "origin stories". 

 

If there's anything that's surprising, it's that it's even more fan fiction than I suspected it would be. The whole story is basically TV writers making up, well, everything. The show is not going to get better, the DNA on this one is coded. I might finish the season, because I hate leaving things unfinished, but after that I'm out. 

[Holko 9,499]

37 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I've seen people praising episode 6 as "one of the greatest hours of TV ever".

You're around the wrong people, mate.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yes!  They like the show and therefore are morally defective! 

[mstrox 6,647]

Definitely not the greatest episode of TV ever, but definitely a pretty good episode of this pretty good show.  You people who continue watching anything despite hating it puzzle me!  I’ve stopped plenty of shows, and it’s pretty easy to do.

 

Even though I don’t care much for Bear’s Galadriel theme, I did get a little pop when it was quoted during the initial charge.

[TolkienSS 405]

9 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Definitely not the greatest episode of TV ever, but definitely a pretty good episode of this pretty good show.  You people who continue watching anything despite hating it puzzle me!  I’ve stopped plenty of shows, and it’s pretty easy to do.

 

You act as if it's easy to just stop watching it as a Tolkien fan, when the visualization of Middle-Earth is pretty great. It's the dumb-as-ass screenplay that keeps people throwing up in their mouthes.

 

I watched the first episode and the last. And my god am I sick of Bear's music. The first episode made me passionately hate Galadriel's theme because it's quoted verbatim literally every two minutes, and the last one made me hate Bronwyn and Arondir because it plays verbatim every damn time.

It's not film scoring just throwing a character's theme in every time said character is on screen.

 

IF Bear did all the music by himself (which I still think is BS), then I suggest he gets more people on board for season 2.

 

And I absolutely hate how the journey to Valinor is depicted as sort of cult-ish induction where the weak go to be idle.

[mstrox 6,647]

2 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

You act as if it's easy to just stop watching it as a Tolkien fan

I’d think it would be easier in that situation!  Consider a Tolkien fan like Holko who is not watching and just shit-talking from the sidelines (a noble profession) because he knows he’ll hate it.

 

I’m of mixed feelings on Tolkien, both in his writing and in adaptions of his work.  Still, Rings of Power, just like Jackson’s movies, the video games, the upcoming horse cartoon - by virtue of creative team and year of creation, is automatically divorced from the source material for me.  Even if I think it doesn’t fit with the source material, I can acknowledge the reasons why it doesn’t and understand that it doesn’t impact the source material at all.  It would be like getting mad at one of those bad 1990s Star Wars tie-in novels, or getting mad at, like, a remake of Robocop.  Why bother?

As a piece of visual media, for me, this clearly isn’t meeting the heights of Jackson’s LOTR, but it’s exceeding the lows of the Hobbit movies (which I still found worth watching). Certainly it’s better than the cartoons from the ‘70s and ‘80s.   It’s fine and better than most of the genre dreck right now, but certainly not a great work.

 

[Chen G. 3,944]

10 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Certainly it’s better than the cartoons from the ‘70s and ‘80s.

 

Before it starts losing its way in the 70 minute mark I'm rather fond of Bakshi's film. At least its not demystifying its audience with creation myths...

 

I mean, I don't want to be too flippant with The Rings of Power: it all looks very nice and I love the concept of Adar and his renegade Orcs. I love this rendering of Elrond, too.

 

But the narrative is slop.

[TolkienSS 405]

@mstrox

 

RoP is not only divorced from source material, it was never married to it. Contrary to the Jackson films and the cartoons.

[Holko 9,499]

24 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Consider a Tolkien fan like Holko who is not watching and just shit-talking from the sidelines (a noble profession) because he knows he’ll hate it.

I did watch the first 3 eps and hated most of it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I stuck to my guns and haven't watched a single second!

[mstrox 6,647]

25 minutes ago, Holko said:

I did watch the first 3 eps and hated most of it.

Ashamed of u, son

[jpmatlack 29]

34 minutes ago, Holko said:

I did watch the first 3 eps and hated most of it.

Good for you for not continuing the bizarre sadistic practice so many people feel compelled to engage in…

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

 

You act as if it's easy to just stop watching it as a Tolkien fan, when the visualization of Middle-Earth is pretty great. It's the dumb-as-ass screenplay that keeps people throwing up in their mouthes.

 

I don’t understand this at all. It’s like forcing yourself to eat every donut of a flavor that makes you want to vomit just because you like donuts in general… if it’s truly this awful, just walk away and don’t look back. 

[TolkienSS 405]

54 minutes ago, jpmatlack said:

Good for you for not continuing the bizarre sadistic practice so many people feel compelled to engage in…

I don’t understand this at all. It’s like forcing yourself to eat every donut of a flavor that makes you want to vomit just because you like donuts in general… if it’s truly this awful, just walk away and don’t look back. 

 

I literally just said I watched two episodes, first and last. You conveniently didn't quote that.

[jpmatlack 29]

1 minute ago, TolkienSS said:

 

I literally just said I watched two episodes, first and last. You conveniently didn't quote that.

I am not your enemy here attempting to win an argument. I’m just puzzled by the idea of forcing yourself to do something you hate…

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

One funny thing I did notice, whoever wrote this episode is a fan of Braveheart...there were a few subtle nods in the episode last night that, if you know Braveheart well, you'd spot it, including a bit where Theo says to Bronwyn, "I can fight" and Bronwyn responds, "I know you can", echoing the same parent child beat with the same lines from Braveheart.

 

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a Tolkien adaptation was inspired by Braveheart, but in this case it stood out, a least to me.

 

[TolkienSS 405]

14 minutes ago, jpmatlack said:

I am not your enemy here attempting to win an argument. I’m just puzzled by the idea of forcing yourself to do something you hate…

 

Neither do I. I'm just surprised you replied to my post that way because I'm not one of the people who complain and still watch.

 

What is the deal with one clip I saw, where Galadriel and Elendil (?) leave Numenor with a few ships, and Galadriel says something like "Let us wash our bloodlines clean"?

What the f*ck?

Did the Klan write this?

[Chen G. 3,944]

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

One funny thing I did notice, whoever wrote this episode is a fan of Braveheart...there were a few subtle nods in the episode last night that, if you know Braveheart well, you'd spot it, including a bit where Theo says to Bronwyn, "I can fight" and Bronwyn responds, "I know you can", echoing the same parent sibling beat with the same lines from Braveheart.

 

Oh, right! And episode four had that extremly obvious homage to Apocalypse Now. Both cases violate one of the major rules of filmmaking: "Never make me think of a better movie that I could be watching instead of yours." Oh, if this series had even an iota of the gritty matter-of-fact-ness of Braveheart! 

 

I refrained from using that parallel here for being too much of a Cato, but the comparison that came to mind was that very scene in the movie with the rather-inert prologue that opens this show: Finrod has a long, flowery conversation with the KidLadriel and yet its not one bit as involving as Wallace senior's short, laconic "I know you can fight. But its our wits that make us Men."

 

It also helps that when Wallace Senior is brought back dead, the movie spends time on it (remember when movies did that?) whereas here its just a short sequence of shots of Galadriel being sad.

[Faleel 5,340]

2 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

 

 

 

It's not film scoring just throwing a character's theme in every time said character is on screen.

 

John Barry has left the chat.

[mstrox 6,647]

12 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

What is the deal with one clip I saw, where Galadriel and Elendil (?) leave Numenor with a few ships, and Galadriel says something like "Let us wash our bloodlines clean"?

What the f*ck?

Did the Klan write this?

You see!  After all that fear that RoP was going woke, it’s still the white Lord of the Rings narrative Tolkien fans know and love! 

[GerateWohl 4,343]

29 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

What is the deal with one clip I saw, where Galadriel and Elendil (?) leave Numenor with a few ships, and Galadriel says something like "Let us wash our bloodlines clean"?

What the f*ck?

Did the Klan write this?

Seems so. Young Galadriel is pretty much going for ethnic cleansing in the last episode. She tells Oren pretty clear that her target is to wipe the world clean from his people and kill each and everyone of them.

[TolkienSS 405]

16 minutes ago, Roll the Bones said:

John Barry has left the chat.

 

I don't recall feeling repulsed by a Barry scored film because of repetitive scoring.

McCreary uses Galadriel's theme at least 10-15 times within 65 minutes.

[rough cut 1,714]

E01S06

 

This show is not getting better, is it. If anything, it’s getting worse. In spite of all the fighting and clashing this was so mind numbing that I actually yelled out “It’s boring!” at the TV, somewhere in the middle.

 

Clearly, I am also losing my mind, so I do understand if my opinion is judged as not to be trusted.

 

Edit: But it seems I’m not alone so hopefully I’m not too far gone! 😂

[TolkienSS 405]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

You see!  After all that fear that RoP was going woke, it’s still the white Lord of the Rings narrative Tolkien fans know and love! 

 

I truly hope that's sarcasm.

[Richard Penna 3,675]

I sort of enjoyed the first 3 episodes, then four and five just hit a dull spot - Elrond/Durin's storylines are boring me and the Numenor stuff has been going way too slow.

 

Episode 6 was back on relative form - I actually watched it with interest, tension and excitement, and boy, Bear's score was magnificent.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

21 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I'm reviewing it for Fellowship of Fans. 

 

More's the pity. You're on your own after this season Chen. The Lord tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're f*cked.

 

 

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

On 30/09/2022 at 4:17 PM, Barnald said:

Apparently everything and everyone needs a (crap and unnecessary) backstory now. How refreshing it was for Better Call Saul to resist the temptation to delve into Gus' (obviously eventful) past in Chile, and just leave it one big tantalizing mystery. But there was a writing team who knew what they were doing...

After reflecting on it for a minute, I'm quite certain you didn't just praise BCS for not delving into unnecessary backstory. There must be a carbon monoxide leak here, I really need to install a detector...

[Barnald 365]

3 hours ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

There must be a carbon monoxide leak here, I really need to install a detector...

 

I think that was fairly evident the moment some started praising Rings of Power...

 

Obviously BCS by its very nature leaned heavily into backstory - to what extent any of that was unnecessary, I'll leave up to you (and since we're dealing with something that had no prior existence in any form, and takes place within a mere 10 years or less of the world of its successor show, comparing it to Rings of Power in this regard is absurd). But to leave perhaps the biggest enigma of the entire series largely untouched has to be commended.