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The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes


Chen G.

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7 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Is it a language thing, or are you saying he's hard to read? I'm the world's worst reader, and I can parse it just fine.

 

No, I can't read Tolkien because my mom doesn't want me to.

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7 hours ago, #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal said:

Gone are the visual aesthetics that made Middle-earth come to live back in 2001

 

The minute that Amazon Prime - in lieu of HBO/Warner Bros. Television - got a hold of the property, we were in for some malarky in this department.

 

I'm not saying the Peter Jackson visuals are the only way to go with this, but surely the answer is not to make a kind of lookalike.

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12 hours ago, Bilbo said:

looks like they’ve decided not to fix any issues with the first season! 
 

Gil-Galad really is miscast 

 

Whoa, what’s up with the shoddy video editing at 0:39??? For a split second, they awkwardly zoom in on the current shot before switching to the next shot… Looks extremely abrupt. If you don’t notice it at first, slow the playback speed to 25%. Is this seriously the final product, and why would they promote the show with this of all things?

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1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Why wouldn't they use Bear's music. Insane.

My most consistent gripe with the marketing, be it trailers or promos. Even the BTS for Old Tom Bombadil and The Last Ballad of Damrod feel like they were allowed only because they're songs.

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On 23/08/2024 at 7:02 AM, Bilbo said:

Gil-Galad really is miscast 

 

He sure sings well in Elvish, FWIW...

 

I'm still not sold on his character in the show, though.

 

On 23/08/2024 at 7:02 AM, Bilbo said:

looks like they’ve decided not to fix any issues with the first season!

 

I'm unsure of how you can conclude this when we've seen so little of the second season.

 

Yavar

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1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Be thankful that in the early 2000s, when the PJ movies were being released, the "epic trailer-ized score" wasn't a thing yet.

But it was, ROTK.

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6 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

That music was phenomenal. Still is. 

There was a time when cheap trashy media music was junk food, now it's just reheated dumpster scraps

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First 3 episode titles:

 

Episode 1    "Elven Kings Under the Sky", directed by Charlotte Brändström, written by Gennifer Hutchison
Episode 2    "Where the Stars are Strange", written by Jason Cahill
Episode 3    "The Eagle and the Sceptre", directed by Charlotte Brändström, written by Helen Shang

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Oh, so as "boring" as last season then? I can't wait! ;)

 

Of course these people aren't reviewing the entire season. They probably got just the first three episodes. I can understand people who would call Andor "boring" based on the original drop of three episodes... and that's some of the best Star Wars ever. Let's see if it's "boring" by the end of the season, lol.

 

Yavar

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6 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Oh, so as "boring" as last season then? I can't wait! ;)

 

Of course these people aren't reviewing the entire season. They probably got just the first three episodes. I can understand people who would call Andor "boring" based on the original drop of three episodes... and that's some of the best Star Wars ever. Let's see if it's "boring" by the end of the season, lol.

 

Yavar

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The eight-episode season also fails to move the narrative needle much beyond where the smoking ruins of Season 1 left matters.

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Forever doomed to be negatively compared to the “Game of Thrones’” prequel series “House of the Dragon,” the second season of “Rings” does do one thing better: it delivers the brutal climactic battle that failed to materialize on its rival’s just-completed sophomore run.

 

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12 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Oh, so as "boring" as last season then? I can't wait! ;)

 

Of course these people aren't reviewing the entire season. They probably got just the first three episodes. I can understand people who would call Andor "boring" based on the original drop of three episodes... and that's some of the best Star Wars ever. Let's see if it's "boring" by the end of the season, lol.

 

Yavar

Empire's review mentions that they saw all episodes.

https://www.empireonline.com/tv/reviews/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-season-2/

 

And of course it's interesting that one of the negative reviews is getting posted here first.

 

Empire is very positive and at this moment the season is at 80% on RT.

 

I still don't care what critics or others think though. I loved the first season and am positive I'm gonna enjoy the 2nd.

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I look what critics say, but my decisions usually come from what my friends say, or from piecing together how my opinions usually relate to broadly held opinions.

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47 minutes ago, Jay said:

So many people talk about what critics and reviewers say about shows they watch.  Am i the only one that doesn't care about that stuff, never looks it up, never reads them?  I just watch shows I'm interested in and make my own opinions >shrug<

 

I think most of us make up our own minds, Jay. But that said, for those of us who don't have unlimited time to watch bad TV (or even good TV), if there are critics you know and trust, who broadly tastes, it can be helpful to check out what they say and get a general idea of what's going on...especially when there's a consensus.

 

So reading the critics, and making up your own mind, aren't mutually exclusive. 

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Of course these people aren't reviewing the entire season. They probably got just the first three episodes. I can understand people who would call Andor "boring" based on the original drop of three episodes... and that's some of the best Star Wars ever. Let's see if it's "boring" by the end of the season, lol.

 

Related to the above, given that most streaming shows are 8-10 episodes these days, I personally don't think I should have to sit through 40-50% of a show before it's no longer "boring".  Sorry, not going to do it. Given the huge amount of "content" out there, studios just don't have the luxury of expecting us to sit through many episodes, or even seasons, before it gets good. 

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

So it "delivers" on a big battle at the end of the season unlike House of the Dragon, and yet it's still "boring"? :eh:

 

Isn't it possible that the "big battle" at the end is good, but the rest of the show is boring? 

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So I finished reading the review, and I think this particular reviewer just... doesn't care much for Tolkien, in general?

https://www.thewrap.com/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-season-2-review-prime-video/

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Some of these prequel plotlines do fill in fascinating data for the wonkier fans of “The Hobbit” and Tolkien’s actual “Lord of the Rings” trilogy.

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Sending everyone on quests is the bane of all Tolkien productions; this season, shot in the UK, makes for even more tedious travelogue stretches than its New Zealand forebears.

Forever doomed to be negatively compared to the “Game of Thrones’” prequel series “House of the Dragon,” 

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statements in the stilted noble-ese that too often substitutes for believable dialogue around these parts

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At one point showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay just seem to give up and have someone mouth metaphorically that “a storm is coming,” as if to concede defeat to the “GOT” writers room.

 

So yeah, clearly this guy simply wishes that Middle Earth as an IP was more like Westeros. Like... c'mon. Don't measure Tolkien's world on the strengths of Martin's, or vice-versa. Judge them both on their OWN merits; they don't have to be in competition. Yeah, Westeros tends to have more complex characters. Yes, plenty of Tolkien dialogue sounds stilted and "unrealistic" today. How weird would it be if characters in Middle Earth started speaking in "believable dialogue"? It's a problem that they GO ON QUESTS? :blink:

 

I'm sure this guy had the same issues watching the Peter Jackson films. Plenty of unbelievable dialogue in those, taken right out of the books. And this line of the review especially made me laugh:

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In addition, an unsettling number of folks break into song.

 

Sure sounds like Tolkien's world to me, baby! ;) Have you even read any Tolkien? Or did you just skip all the song bits?

 

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We’re indifferently introduced to new characters and love interests, none of which rise above a furtive, fully clothed kiss (another win for the “GoT”/”HOTD” column).

 

You mean like... this?

Lord-of-the-Rings-Aragorn-and-Arwen-kiss - Edited (1)

 

So now he wants Tolkien characters to start taking their clothes off and...make out? Or was he hoping for a full-on George R.R. Martin-style sex scene? ROTFLMAO

 

Not all fantasy has to be the same, dude. Thank GOODNESS the showrunners are ignoring people like this. I don't WANT Rings of Power to be more like House of the Dragon. And I don't want House of the Dragon to be more like Rings of Power.

 

Yavar

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2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

So I finished reading the review, and I think this particular reviewer just... doesn't care much for Tolkien, in general?

https://www.thewrap.com/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-season-2-review-prime-video/

 

Rings of Power has very little to do with Tolkien. And in any event, that review is hardly an outlier. 

3 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Thank GOODNESS the showrunners are ignoring people like this.

 

Well, they're ignoring Tolkien, so why not?

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1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Rings of Power has very little to do with Tolkien.

 

On this we simply disagree. They simply have a different vision of Tolkien than you do.

 

1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Well, they're ignoring Tolkien, so why not?

 

I don't think they are, at all. I think they're *adapting* Tolkien rather than trying to slavishly re-create his scattered second age fragments of writing into some literal screen retelling. And thank goodness for that, too.

 

Yavar

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7 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I don't think they are, at all. I think they're *adapting* Tolkien rather than trying to slavishly re-create his scattered second age fragments of writing into some literal screen retelling. And thank goodness for that, too.

 

Yavar

 

Nope. They're not "adapting" Tolkien, because there's almost nothing to "adapt". It would be impossible to "slavishly recreate" the "scattered second age fragments", because, as you correctly point out, the scattered second age fragments are scattered second age fragments. Almost all the plot, and many of characters, are simply made up by the screenwriters.  They're taking some characters and situations created by Tolkien and making their own, generic fantasy show out of it. Anyone who's read the "scattered second age fragments" knows this.

 

I have no problem with necessary changes in the source material for a genuine adaption, like The Lord of the Rings.  I do have a problem with fan fiction. 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Am i the only one that doesn't care about that stuff, never looks it up, never reads them? I just watch shows I'm interested in and make my own opinions...

 

I don't watch much TV and so don't read many reviews of TV programmes, but I do read reviews of films. That's one of the main ways that I learn about which ones to be interested in!

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4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Nope. They're not "adapting" Tolkien, because there's almost nothing to "adapt". It would be impossible to "slavishly recreate" the "scattered second age fragments", because, as you correctly point out, the scattered second age fragments are scattered second age fragments.

 

I mean... they could make separate drier TV movie sort of things. One about the fall of Numenor. One about Annatar and Celebrimbor. Etc. Disconnected, as they are in the Tolkien. In some cases separated by hundreds or even thousands of years. I actually appreciate them trying to weave something together from the fragments. I love Tolkien's writings but I'm not up in arms about condensing pre-LotR history into something that works as a TV series.

 

6 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Almost all the plot, and many of characters, are simply made up by the screenwriters.

 

That's not even accurate. They are fleshing out the plot, yes, but the plot comes from Tolkien. Most of the characters come from Tolkien, too. And I can understand why they feel the need to add some characters that Tolkien didn't write about, in his second age history fragments. Because it needs to feel like a fuller and more fleshed out world, as Lord of the Rings itself did! I've got ZERO problem with them adding a daughter for Elendil; in fact I welcome it. I've got ZERO problem with some proto-hobbit characters being added. Just because Tolkien's written histories of Middle Earth didn't track what they were doing, doesn't mean they weren't doing things. And I think the stuff the show runners came up with for the harfoots encountering The Stranger is mostly good, and well executed. Assuming he turns out to be Gandalf, I like that some background is given for his fondness for Hobbits.

 

I did roll my eyes at the seemingly-obligatory Arondir/Bronwyn romance in season 1 I admit, but I must also say I appreciated them doing a bit of a twist on Tolkien, having a male elf fall for a mortal woman rather than just doing another Beren & Luthien / Aragorn & Arwen thing.

 

15 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

They're taking some characters and situations created by Tolkien and making their own, generic fantasy show out of it. Anyone who's read the "scattered second age fragments" knows this.

 

A lot of people who have read the scattered second age fragments are enjoying Rings of Power, and don't consider it generic. Don't presume that all Tolkien readers share your tastes and preferences, and aversion to the show. If this were just a generic fantasy show, I think the showrunners would be adding sex scenes, lol! If this were a just a "generic fantasy show", do you think they'd be having characters burst into Tolkien songs? ROTFLMAO

 

No, they'd be worried about normies (not just this reviewer) finding that weird and "unsettling". But you know what? These show runners clearly LOVE Tolkien, and that's why they're not only sticking in Tom Bombadil (a character who means NOTHING to non-book readers... they certainly aren't pandering to the Peter Jackson fans, with that choice) but having him burst into song more than once!

 

20 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I have no problem with necessary changes in the source material for a genuine adaption, like The Lord of the Rings.  I do have a problem with fan fiction. 

 

Well, don't watch then! But don't presume to tell the rest of us Tolkien fans who enjoy this show that we are wrong for doing so.

 

Also I think Peter Jackson and co. are guilty of fan fiction themselves, certainly in the increasingly-bad Hobbit films but yes even in their original LotR trilogy. The warg attack and Faramir detour in The Two Towers, anyone? And they made some real failures of adaptation in Return of the King, IMO, particularly in Gondor.

 

You don't like Rings of Power. That's fine. I'm not telling you you have to like it. Just stop telling other Tolkien fans that they have to dislike it.

 

Yavar

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I think almost every addition in the LOTR films was good, so (obviously) not every change in an adaption is a bad thing. I do think some of TROP’s aspects haven’t quite worked, but the vast majority do.

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14 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Just stop telling other Tolkien fans that they have to dislike it.

 

14 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Well, don't watch then! But don't presume to tell the rest of us Tolkien fans who enjoy this show that we are wrong for doing so.

 

These are straw-man arguments, and you know it. I'm not "telling" Tolkien fans they "have to dislike it" or are "wrong" for doing so.  It's frankly disingenuous to claim I'm doing that, and you know that as well. 

 

I'm stating my opinion. Forcefully, certainly. I just consider The Lord of The Rings to be one of the greatest accomplishments of Western literature, so yes, I hate seeing it butchered this way. Other people (especially those that enjoy fan fiction) are welcome to their own opinion on it. De gustibus non est disputandum. 

 

And you know, if it were good Tolkien fan fiction, that would be one thing. It would still be fan fiction, but at least it might work as generic fantasy. But it's not good (also, as if it needs to be repeated, my opinion). I found the first season at least to be poorly written, and yes, boring. 

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7 minutes ago, Stark said:

I think almost every addition in the LOTR films was good, so (obviously) not every change in an adaption is a bad thing. I do think some of TROP’s aspects haven’t quite worked, but the vast majority do.

 

I agree with all this. I liked most of the additions in the original Jackson trilogy. Not so much with The Hobbit films... I think The Rings of Power is frankly far better "fan fiction" (not a term I like to use) than whatever Jackson and co. were doing with Desolation of Smaug and Battle of Five Armies in particular.

 

Yavar

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2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

I agree with all this. I liked most of the additions in the original Jackson trilogy. Not so much with The Hobbit films... I think The Rings of Power is frankly far better "fan fiction" (not a term I like to use) than whatever Jackson and co. were doing with Desolation of Smaug and Battle of Five Armies in particular.

 

Yavar

While I still like (not love) the Hobbit films, I must agree.

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2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Oh, so as "boring" as last season then? I can't wait! ;)

 

Of course these people aren't reviewing the entire season. They probably got just the first three episodes. I can understand people who would call Andor "boring" based on the original drop of three episodes... and that's some of the best Star Wars ever. Let's see if it's "boring" by the end of the season, lol.

 

Yavar

 

If someone sees a third of the season and is bored by it, it's not a great indication for the rest.

 

But I'm open to being impressed or at least entertained, and not swayed by what one stuffy critic has to say. I usually deliberately avoid critic reactions for precisely this reason - to avoid preconditioning based on one person's view. I enjoyed most of season 1 despite the dull bits, and look forward to giving this one a fair go.

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The Hobbit films definitely veer way too much what I'd regard as fan fiction, especially the White Council/Necromancer/Radagast bits. Strip away those parts, and it's a fairly faithful adaption of the book...albeit, again, with some of the compromises of adaptation. 

 

In any event, nothing in The Hobbit is anywhere near as egregious as what they've done in ROP, which is almost wholly made up. Let's put it this way, you can take away the most fan fiction elements in The Hobbit and still have a coherent movie that's a decent adaption of the book (as many fan editors have done). Take away all the fan fiction in ROP and you pretty have...nothing. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

In any event, nothing in The Hobbit is anywhere near as egregious as what they've done in ROP, which is almost wholly made up.

 

a close up of gollum from the lord of the rings looking at the camera

 

KILI & TAURIEL* A Love that was Real- The Hobbit - YouTube

 

It's far more egregious to me because it's substantially meddling with and changing an actual full BOOK that Tolkien wrote and finished. The main/title character of said book literally gets lost and becomes a supporting character in his own story. The very nature of a finished Tolkien work is dramatically diluted/corrupted. 

 

Give me RoP's "fan fiction" to stitch together Tolkien's fragments into a long form TV narrative any day. It feels much more true to the spirit of Tolkien, to me.

 

Yavar

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