Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Yavar Moradi 3,032]

13 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

If someone sees a third of the season and is bored by it, it's not a great indication for the rest.

But I'm open to being impressed or at least entertained, and not swayed by what one stuffy critic has to say.

 

He apparently did see the whole season, to my surprise. (I made that comment before reading the review.) Amusingly, despite his overall "I wish this was more like House of the Dragon" bent, the reviewer says quite a few positive things about the season which make it sound quite promising:

Quote

each episode — half of which were directed by French/Swedish TV wiz Charlotte Brändström — has good action beats, scary stuff, whimsy and intrigues. 

 

Huh. So each episode has all that stuff? Sounds kinda... not boring!  You know, even if it has quests in it.  

 

Quote

two Season 2 performances stand out, both due in different ways to the corrupting power of the magic rings...

 

You don't say!

 

Quote

Celebrimbor’s spiritual and cognitive declines are on par with those of the future Gollum’s, but more poignant. His is a farther fall from such an honorable starting place.

Peter Mullan delivers the other Shakespearean performance as Dwarf King Durin III, who goes mad with greed and a Trumpian belief in his infallibility while wearing a ring. With this one, Mullan (“Ozark,” “Top of the Lake”) further corners the market on toxic TV patriarchs.

 

Huh, sounds compelling!

 

Quote

There’s a pretty cool roster of monstrous creatures; while some appear to have escaped from an unmade “Pirates of the Caribbean” sequel, others — like the temple moths that turn into a spooky white lady and Damrod, a hill troll that’s like a giant Hulk orc who enjoys biting off the heads of puny humanoids — earn all the VFX budget that went into them.

 

So this boring show has some pretty "cool" stuff in it, apparently. Seems like it's maybe worth watching.  

 

Quote

Indeed, “Rings” continues to be a production of unparalleled sumptuousness, played out amidst medieval cities both wondrously glistening and horribly distressed, in underground kingdoms and haunted caves, across seascapes, forests and unforgiving deserts.

 

Okay reviewer, you've talked me into it!  

 

Yavar

[Doo_liss 6,640]

Celebrimbor shouldn't really be falling anywhere.

[Edmilson 9,135]

I only read reviews of sites that don't have paywalls. If I see a paywall I close the tab on spot.

[Richard P 4,269]

32 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

In any event, nothing in The Hobbit is anywhere near as egregious as what they've done in ROP

 

Faffing around with Smaug and riding carts in the mines for half an hour, Legolas jumping around like a video game, floating down a river in barrels, but no... RoP is the one making up completely ridiculous shit.

 

The LotR PJ was not the same one who made The Hobbit so I just ignore them.

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

Haters!

 

 

Sounds boring.

 

To be fair, there are positive (what Rotten Tomatoes would call "fresh") reviews out there as well, but even most of those are relatively muted with their praise, acknowledge the show is flawed and mention the languid pacing. Most of the praise is in regard to the visuals, and a couple of the performances.

[Richard P 4,269]

Well, the good news for you is that the showrunners will listen to reviewers   I couldn't care less if it ended after this season - it would just be a huge shame to not get more wonderful McCreary music.

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

Bear's music is outstanding, and it's a remarkable feat, he's done a man's job. Definitely a highlight of the show. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,333]

What's haters, precious?

[tomsmoviemadness 3,623]

It's at 82% on RT and if the viewership is as high as season 1 (S1 has been No. 1 over the last few weeks on Prime in multiple countries) there will definitely be more.

 

 

[Doo_liss 6,640]

Going by the Tale of Years compared to the tracklist, I would predict 1 or 2 more seasons at least.

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

 

11 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Going by the Tale of Years compared to the tracklist, I would predict 1 or 2 more seasons at least.

 

I keep hearing that Amazon is "contractually obligated" to make five seasons, but I'm dubious about this, and suspect it's a result of sloppy reporting. Legally speaking, it would be very unusual for a television rights contract to be structured this way, and more or less unenforceable without a brutal anticipatory breach clause. 

 

19 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

RoP is the one making up completely ridiculous shit.

 

It's about quantity. The Hobbit has some ridiculous sh*t, as you say. Plenty of it. But ROP is almost entirely "ridiculous sh*t".  And the nonsense you mention from The Hobbit mostly just visual gags, and Jackson giving into his silliest excess. ROP has fundamental issues on a story level, that frankly can't be fixed.

 

I agree with you that The Hobbit PJ is not the same filmmaker as LOTR PJ, and had Jackson done The Hobbit first, it would certainly be a much different movie. 

[Doo_liss 6,640]

16 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

I keep hearing that Amazon is "contractually obligated" to make five seasons,

I could possibly see:

 

S2: Fall of Eregion

S3: Capture of Sauron/Fall of Numenor

4: Fall of Numenor/The Last Alliance

5: The Last Alliance/Post Alliance M-E events

[TheUlyssesian 2,589]

10 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

I could possibly see:

 

S2: Fall of Eregion

S3: Capture of Sauron/Fall of Numenor

4: Fall of Numenor/The Last Alliance

5: The Last Alliance/Post Alliance M-E events

 

I think this seems reasonable.

[Doo_liss 6,640]

16 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I think this seems reasonable.

If that's what they end up doing, it will be interesting to see what the add for S3, because "Numenoreans kick Sauron's Ass" doesn't necessarily scream "8 Episode Plot"

 

I suppose, the the beginnings of "rebellion and divisions + Civil War of the Numenoreans", and "The Nazgul Appear"

 

[Glóin the Dark 1,333]

How many seasons until we get to the salad days of Young Noakes and Laddy Twofoot?

[Doo_liss 6,640]

Just now, Glóin the Dark said:

How many seasons until we get to the salad days of Young Noakes and Laddy Twofoot?

Season 7 1/2.

[toothless 985]

https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/28/24228958/amazon-rings-of-power-season-2-review
 

Quote

“season 2 shows off its expensiveness with a surprisingly large number of action-focused set pieces featuring CGI that looks magnitudes better than what other streamers are offering up. Almost every episode features a climactic moment that genuinely feels like it’s meant to be watched in a theater with composer Bear McCreary’s majestic score blasting.”

 

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

10 minutes ago, toothless said:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/28/24228958/amazon-rings-of-power-season-2-review
 

 

 

 

 

An "expansion" of Tolkien's mythos. Positive review that nonetheless accidentally says the truth in the headline.

[Doo_liss 6,640]

RoP fans:

 

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,589]

The episode drop timing sucks. Though can't be too North america centric i guess for a global show.

[TolkienSS 471]

The Hobbitsis are going to Rhûn in story ONLY because it's close to Mordor, and they have a story reason to "accidentally" end up there, to copy - or parody rather - Frodo and Sam saving the day.

Mark these words.

[Bellosh 3,941]

I'd watch this if Galadriel showed some ass like GoT (and Morgoth came)

 

Until then, I'll just reread the Sil (very slowly, the way it's meant to be read, cause it takes your imagination to places you couldn't conceive)

[Richard P 4,269]

Episode 1 verdict: the visuals are pretty amazing - certainly no worse than some of the scenery in RotK. The story so far... what I've been able to make out so far... dull as hell and some of the dialogue is truly awful. Bear's music is doing a lot of heaving lifting.

[Bellosh 3,941]

@Stark @Bofur01

 

The duality of man. Sorry.

[Schilkeman 1,331]

On 28/08/2024 at 1:51 PM, Edmilson said:

I only read reviews of sites that don't have paywalls. If I see a paywall I close the tab on spot.

You get what you pay for in this world—from you friendly neighborhood anti-capitalist. That said, this doesn't seem like a show that would be difficult for forming one's own opinion.

[A. A. Ron 1,953]

46 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

You get what you pay for in this world

 

If that were true this would be the best show ever made.

 

[Schilkeman 1,331]

17 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

If that were true this would be the best show ever made.

 

It's quite possible to spend money unwisely. There's "paying for," and "throwing money at." Amazon did the latter.

[A. A. Ron 1,953]

I don't see how the difference between those two concepts could be anything but subjective and arbitrary.

[Doo_liss 6,640]

58 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

If that were true this would be the best show ever made.

 

Well... It has good music, and it looks ok enough. Maybe they should have payed for good writing etc. as well

[crocodile 8,612]

I've watched the three episodes last night. They were OK, although it sometimes feels more like G.R.R. in tone rather than J.R.R. Bear McCreary does some really heavy lifting in order to try bridge those two worlds. It is entertaining enough although I am trying not to think too much about what is happening. It's like The Hobbit fanfic all over again, both overstuffed and, for the lot of it, hilariously thin. But I am not hating anything.

 

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

It's like The Hobbit fanfic all over again, both overstuffed and, for the lot of it, hilariously thin.

 

Like butter?

[Richard P 4,269]

I've allowed myself a non-hiking Saturday so I've watched all 3.

 

IMO the critics are correct on one count: it's so, so boring. If like me you don't have a lot invested in this world (i.e. don't know the source material), there's almost nothing to latch onto. I'm probably watching at this point for just two reasons: the upcoming battle looks exciting and to hear the music in context.

 

Episode 2 has some interesting moments here and there (Stranger/Nori/Poppy scenes are good) but the overall plot is unengaging and the writing is abysmal. Episode 3 in particular just slogs and tbh there aren't a lot of opportunities for Bear to write good original music - it's mostly reprisals of Isildur's theme, a bit of Numenor and quite a lot of general underscore. There are quite a few bits without music, plus the odd bit of extremly low-volume, under-dialogue music not on the album (I don't think many are going to clamour for the missing bits), explaining the shorter album. In fact, this is the first episode where I'm not checking a lot of the in-between, short bits to see if they're on the album because given what I'm hearing, I don't particularly care. It's not bad - it's just not essential. The 35 mins on the album will work nicely.

 

That said, the visuals are absolutely top notch. Essentially, everything technical - design, cinematography, effect, music, has clearly had money thrown at it. Unfortunately, that's come at the expense of any quality control over the story or dialogue. I'm sure though that as we start to get into the battle of Eregion it's going to start livening up, and of course we discover what other wonderful battle scoring Bear's done.

[Alan 711]

Really loved when Sauron took the form of Annatar. Can't think what it reminded me of though

[Luke Skywalker 1,971]

I didnt understand the Eagle scene. I thought that if it arrived during the coronation of the queen...it would mean she is the chosen one. But it seems that since the eagle lands in front on another person the people easily take him to be the chosen king?

 

Weird

 

Anyway, why did the bird come? Was it summoned and the badguys played it on their benefit?

[Richard P 4,269]

I have zero idea what the eagle thing was about. I was also getting a bit restless by that point.

[Alan 711]

Looked to to me like it the eagle was screeching to tell them to stop chanting his name then buggered off when they didn't listen. Silly humans.

[tomsmoviemadness 3,623]

My take on the eagle scene was that it came to Miriel's defense, as she was being crowned queen and rallying the people. When the chaos started she was unable to go to him and that's when Pharazon took his chance. But he never got really close to it. I think the eagle is to be a token of strength and power to whoever it comes to.

 

 

[Doo_liss 6,640]

3 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

My take on the eagle scene was that it came to Miriel's defense, as she was being crowned queen and rallying the people. When the chaos started she was unable to go to him and that's when Pharazon took his chance. But he never got really close to it. I think the eagle is to be a token of strength and power to whoever it comes to.

 

 

Also, iirc in the lore, at that time the Eagles were usually sent by the gods

[Jay 39,764]

The Rings of Power 2x01 Elven Kings Under the Sky

 

Overall I liked this episode - it felt like a bit of a righting of the ship after season 1 went off the rails towards the end.

 

The long prologue showing us Sauron, Adar, and Halbrand's history was something that I didn't think would work at first, but by the end I was really digging.  I almost felt like it could have been broken up as the prologue over 4 episodes - 1 showing his "death" and turning into goo, the second showing his goo form gathering strength until coming out of the mountain and becoming Halbrand, the third his conversation with the people fleeing from Adar's orcs, and then the 4th with him on the boat.  it's kind of surprising that instead then put all four beats of his story together as one insanely long prologue.  But as a whole, I feel like it made me understand both Halbrand/Sauron and Adar's characters SO much more than I ever did in season 1!  It made me wish this stuff had been included in season 1.  I wonder if they always thought season 2 would open this way, or if it was developed as a result of the response to season 1.

 

I had forgotten about the silly invention about how the Elfs are dying, symbolized by the last leaves falling... and that the Rings were forged as the cure for that (forgive me, its' been two years).  The way the episode went on largely covering all that, and ending with them putting the rings on and restoring the trees was actually pretty good I thought (buoyed by great music from Bear).  However, does anyone else think it would have made more sense to end season 1 with this moment?  Instead of simply ending with the forging of the rings?  Again I wonder if they always planned to wrap up their "elfs are dying" plot 1 episode into season 2, or if they originally planned to drag it out, then wrapped it up in one after the response to season 1.

 

I enjoyed all the Nori/Stranger scenes.  I am curious to know what the staff dream means, who the people in masks following them are, and what else they'll get up to.  It was also nice hearing The Stranger talk normally and be friendly with Nori, I remember him being quiet for most of season 1?  Now, what's up with Poppy joining them?  Again, I don't have strong memories of how season 1 ended; Didn't she have some very good reason for NOT joining Nori, like she had to stay back and help the other Harfoot or something?  So WTF is up with her abandoning that to join them, and also how would she have CAUGHT UP to them so quickly? (is the fact that they were walking around in circles meant to account for that?).  Also, are Poppy and Nori just friends, or was I picking up on a potential romance?  I cannot tell how old these characters are supposed to be!  Anyways, again I wonder if the response to season 1 lent to the writers bringing Poppy back in when they weren't originally intending to, or not.

 

Cirdan seems like an interesting new characters, but also a bit awkwardly introduced and I'm not really sure what to make of him yet.  Maybe he should have been seen in season 1 a few times to help with this.  Or maybe some sort of refresher about elf hierachy and such would have helped.  I did think that Elrond twice saying "the rings must be destroyed" was too much of a callback to Elrond saying "The Ring must be destroyed" in PJ's film.

 

OK so my final question is about distances.  How far away is Celebrimbor's forge from where Gil-galad is?  And how far away is it from Mordor?  Because it seemed strange to me that Halbrand/Sauron arrived there before the messenger that Gil-galad sent did.  When season 1 ended with Halbrand leaving the forge and going back to Mordor, I expected the writers had a reason. So now that he only spends 1 episode there before he's back at the forge again, once again makes me question if the writers originally had a different plan for what he'd get up to in season 2, then based on response changed course to get him back at the forge.  I dunno.

 

Overall, though, I really did think this was a pretty strong season opener, so much so that I question why they dropped 3 episodes at once instead of only dropping this one, especially since it comes with a nice preview of the rest of the season built in at the end.  Like I was enticed by just this 1 episode enough to want to come back, but by releasing 3 at once they shrink the conversation from 8 weeks down to 6.  Weird.

[Doo_liss 6,640]

Probably not intentional, but in the TTT novelisation () the Balrog turned into a creature of slime after it reached the water at the bottom of Khazad-Dum, and Sauron was basically that here. (Both Balrogs and Sauron are Maiar)

 

 

On the subject of distance between Eregion and Lindon vs. Mordor:

 

[Stark 566]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

The Rings of Power 2x01 Elven Kings Under the Sky

 

Overall I liked this episode - it felt like a bit of a righting of the ship after season 1 went off the rails towards the end.

 

The long prologue showing us Sauron, Adar, and Halbrand's history was something that I didn't think would work at first, but by the end I was really digging.  I almost felt like it could have been broken up as the prologue over 4 episodes - 1 showing his "death" and turning into goo, the second showing his goo form gathering strength until coming out of the mountain and becoming Halbrand, the third his conversation with the people fleeing from Adar's orcs, and then the 4th with him on the boat.  it's kind of surprising that instead then put all four beats of his story together as one insanely long prologue.  But as a whole, I feel like it made me understand both Halbrand/Sauron and Adar's characters SO much more than I ever did in season 1!  It made me wish this stuff had been included in season 1.  I wonder if they always thought season 2 would open this way, or if it was developed as a result of the response to season 1.

 

I had forgotten about the silly invention about how the Elfs are dying, symbolized by the last leaves falling... and that the Rings were forged as the cure for that (forgive me, its' been two years).  The way the episode went on largely covering all that, and ending with them putting the rings on and restoring the trees was actually pretty good I thought (buoyed by great music from Bear).  However, does anyone else think it would have made more sense to end season 1 with this moment?  Instead of simply ending with the forging of the rings?  Again I wonder if they always planned to wrap up their "elfs are dying" plot 1 episode into season 2, or if they originally planned to drag it out, then wrapped it up in one after the response to season 1.

 

I enjoyed all the Nori/Stranger scenes.  I am curious to know what the staff dream means, who the people in masks following them are, and what else they'll get up to.  It was also nice hearing The Stranger talk normally and be friendly with Nori, I remember him being quiet for most of season 1?  Now, what's up with Poppy joining them?  Again, I don't have strong memories of how season 1 ended; Didn't she have some very good reason for NOT joining Nori, like she had to stay back and help the other Harfoot or something?  So WTF is up with her abandoning that to join them, and also how would she have CAUGHT UP to them so quickly? (is the fact that they were walking around in circles meant to account for that?).  Also, are Poppy and Nori just friends, or was I picking up on a potential romance?  I cannot tell how old these characters are supposed to be!  Anyways, again I wonder if the response to season 1 lent to the writers bringing Poppy back in when they weren't originally intending to, or not.

 

Cirdan seems like an interesting new characters, but also a bit awkwardly introduced and I'm not really sure what to make of him yet.  Maybe he should have been seen in season 1 a few times to help with this.  Or maybe some sort of refresher about elf hierachy and such would have helped.  I did think that Elrond twice saying "the rings must be destroyed" was too much of a callback to Elrond saying "The Ring must be destroyed" in PJ's film.

 

OK so my final question is about distances.  How far away is Cerebrimbor's forge from where Gil-galad is?  And how far away is it from Mordor?  Because it seemed strange to me that Halbrand/Sauron arrived there before the messenger that Gil-galad sent did.  When season 1 ended with Halbrand leaving the forge and going back to Mordor, I expected the writers had a reason. So now that he only spends 1 episode there before he's back at the forge again, once again makes me question if the writers originally had a different plan for what he'd get up to in season 2, then based on response changed course to get him back at the forge.  I dunno.

 

Overall, though, I really did think this was a pretty strong season opener, so much so that I question why they dropped 3 episodes at once instead of only dropping this one, especially since it comes with a nice preview of the rest of the season built in at the end.  Like I was enticed by just this 1 episode enough to want to come back, but by releasing 3 at once they shrink the conversation from 8 weeks down to 6.  Weird.

Eregion is right outside Khazad-Dum, while Lindon is around the gray havens… so they are not close! The show seems to do a fair amount of time-skipping in the background.

 

I’ve been wondering if there were a few course corrections for the season - having Poppy immediately rejoin cannot have been the plan, which makes me almost wonder if Poppy and the Harfeet were planned to appear on their own but the showrunners (rightly) realized nobody cares about them. And Halbrand going from Mordor in s1 to Eregion, then back to Mordor, and then back to Eregion, seems like a rewrite of some sort. I also wondered if the healing of the tree was originally planned for the end of season 1, but delayed for episode count reasons, which could also be a part of why Halbrand dances across the map. And of course, the character who’s been retired due to their performer retiring must be a rewrite, though again one I consider right.

[Doo_liss 6,640]

3 hours ago, Stark said:

Eregion is right outside Khazad-Dum, while Lindon is around the gray havens… so they are not close! The show seems to do a fair amount of time-skipping in the background.

And of course this is Lindon pre-downfall, so it's possibly slightly larger than in LOTR.

[TheUlyssesian 2,589]

2 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

And of course this is Lindon pre-drowning, so it's possibly slightly larger than in LOTR.

 

Lindon wouldn't change in size from second age to third age would it?

[Stark 566]

3 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

And of course this is Lindon pre-drowning, so it's possibly slightly larger than in LOTR.

Pre-drowning?

[Doo_liss 6,640]

11 minutes ago, Stark said:

Pre-drowning?

Spoilers for future seasons:

 

Spoiler

Numenor gets submerged underwater Atlantis-style, and some of Lindon is affected as well

 

20 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Lindon wouldn't change in size from second age to third age would it?

According to Tolkien gateway:

 

Spoiler

In the tumult following the Downfall of Númenor, Lindon suffered great loss as "the sea rode in upon the land", and it shrank by the end of the Second Age.^[6]

 

[Stark 566]

Interesting, I didn’t realize Lindon was also affected.

[Doo_liss 6,640]

1 minute ago, Stark said:

Interesting, I didn’t realize Lindon was also affected.

TBF, the info is taken from The Peoples of Middle-Earth, which is part of The History of Middle-Earth "series" which contains Tolkien's various notes, early versions etc. so there is a 5% possibility it isn't actually "canon"

[Monoverantus 539]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Now, what's up with Poppy joining them?  Again, I don't have strong memories of how season 1 ended; Didn't she have some very good reason for NOT joining Nori, like she had to stay back and help the other Harfoot or something?

This, and Bronwyn dying are the clearest reminders that this is still a TV show, subject to the whims of fate just like all others. One character was given a proper goodbye, which they then walked backed on for whatever reason. The other was thiiiis close to getting a proper goodbye, but was saved right at the end, only for her character to be killed off off-screen because the actress left after S1.

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Cirdan seems like an interesting new characters, but also a bit awkwardly introduced and I'm not really sure what to make of him yet.

I really wanted to like him, he's someone who really manages to catch that ethereal Elven appeal of being old, wise and vigorous at the same time. But is it just me that got quite put-off with him betraying Elrond with 0 repercussions? Not even a "sorry"?

8 hours ago, Jay said:

When season 1 ended with Halbrand leaving the forge and going back to Mordor, I expected the writers had a reason. So now that he only spends 1 episode there before he's back at the forge again, once again makes me question if the writers originally had a different plan for what he'd get up to in season 2, then based on response changed course to get him back at the forge.  I dunno.

I don't think there were any changes made. They ended S1 with him going to Mordor and knew he would return to Eregion in S2. They simply don't care about how credible the travels are (remember how Halbrand was so wounded that he could only be cured by Elvish medicine, yet somehow strong enough to endure a 6-day ride across half ther continent?)

But more crucial than that, did he really have no better plan than that? Let himself be imprisoned by Adar and hope they don't kill him immediately, let alone be allowed to leave?

[Holko 10,401]

16 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

They simply don't care about how credible the travels are

Well it's not like those play any important part in the source material anyway.