Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Monoverantus 508]

13 minutes ago, Holko said:

Well it's not like those play any important part in the source material anyway.

 They do at least leave their backs free by never really specifying how much time passes at any given time. Was Elrond on the run for a few hours, or for days? How long was Sauron imprisoned (or Arondir in S1)? Doesn't really matter, it was just enough time for the plot to happen.

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

Watching the first episode made me wonder something:

 

What was Sauron and Melkor's relationship like? Was Sauron all like "You're amazing" and Morgoth was all like "who are you again?" Or was it like "Sauron my man, here, have Tol Sirion!"?

[Holko 10,127]

5 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

and Morgoth was all like "who are you again?"

Or maybe he just remembered Tevildo and could never take him seriously again.

[Monoverantus 508]

12 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

What was Sauron and Melkor's relationship like?

Deviantart has taught me that Melkor was a "seme" and Sauron an "uke", which iirc is Quenya for "master" and "apprentice".

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

34 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

Deviantart has taught me that Melkor was a "seme" and Sauron an "uke", which iirc is Quenya for "master" and "apprentice".

*Squints* that's not just a disguised version of what rhymes with "yom" and "bub" is it?

43 minutes ago, Holko said:

Or maybe he just remembered Tevildo and could never take him seriously again.

"What was all that f***ing cat lord s**t about? Are you... one of.. them?"

[Holko 10,127]

6 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

46 minutes ago, Holko said:

Or maybe he just remembered Tevildo and could never take him seriously again.

"What was all that f***ing cat lord s**t about? Are you... one of.. them?"

"No Dad boss, I'm not a weeb! I'm gonna rule Middle-Earth one day! First step will be seducing this hot girl who's mentally a teenager but don't worry, she's actually thousands of years old so it's not weird at all!"

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

5 minutes ago, Holko said:

"No Dad boss, I'm not a weeb! I'm gonna rule Middle-Earth one day! First step will be seducing this hot girl who's mentally a teenager but don't worry, she's actually thousands of years old!"

"I guess I can't judge too harshly, I held a grudge because I had to be involved with Illuvatar Control Productions and had all my cues rejected and rewritten, then started a war over jewelry and pissed on two trees with a Spider-Woman."

 

"Really?"

 

"Yeah, only 45% of my original vision is present in the finished product!"

[Stark 534]

4 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Watching the first episode made me wonder something:

 

What was Sauron and Melkor's relationship like? Was Sauron all like "You're amazing" and Morgoth was all like "who are you again?" Or was it like "Sauron my man, here, have Tol Sirion!"?

Morgoth very directly parallels the devil, while Sauron is one of the fallen angels who follow him, as are the balrogs (in the Bible, that’s a third of all the angels!). Both are driven by a lust for “order” and control of all things, with the differences being in power level and strategy. So they probably had some nasty debates and gave each other the cold shoulder for centuries!

In all seriousness, I can’t recall many actual conversations or descriptions of their relationship, not in the Silmarillion at least. They mostly go off to their own castles and be evil on their own. Sauron speaks “fondly” of Morgoth to Numenor but that’s just him corrupting them into devil-worship.

[Jay 39,199]

Rings of Power 2x02 - Where the Stars are Strange

 

I quite enjoyed spending time with the Dwarfs in Khazad-dûm again; they had the most consistently enjoyable scenes in the first season (and it was a shame they were only in 4 of the 8 episodes). 

 

Strangely, while episode 1 felt like it was chock FULL of course corrections (Poppy immediately returning, Halbrand back at the Forge, the Elves saved, etc), this episode kept the Durin III / Durin IV quarrel going without resolving it, which was unexpected!  I do wonder how they are going to resolve their differences, and if Dwarven Rings of Power will play a part in that...

 

Nori and The Stranger's trek across Rhûn seems so hopeless, and I've honestly forgotten why they are even there or where they are trying to get to.  However, the world of Rhûn is being built out nicely; There's a magic that can get you lost if you don't know a song (kind of worked for me), and this new evil wizard dude has a bunch of servants working for him, and a nice tower to live in.  Did I miss this guy's name, or was it not stated?  I am curious to find out more about what his motivations and goals are.  I thought he looked like Christopher Lee's take on Saruman, but I doubt it's supposed to be him, right?

 

The Stranger's magic going out of control every time he uses it is a nice way to keep him from saving the day easily all the time, but boy did his sandstorm go WAY out of control this episode!  As it went on and on, it seemed like there'd be no way the three good guys would survive it!  I wonder if there will be a specific explanation for why that staff was there near the well or not.  Hmm.

 

Halbrand continues to be one of the characters most enjoyable to watch.  I liked how he waited all day and was able to talk Celebrimbor into hosting him.  And I liked understanding that while Galadriel, Elrond, and Gil-galad all know that Halbrand is Sauron, Celebrimbor doesn't actually know yet .... and might just be able to forge some more rings before Elron and Galadriel finally show up.  Halbrand's big reveal as Anntar was perhaps a little over the top and cheesy... are we seeing the showmakers indulging in spectacle here, or is Annatar putting on a big show on purpose to convince Celebrimbor to work with him?  Hmm.

 

Are we do believe Sauron somehow specifically caused the earthquake that destroyed the sun tunnels in Khazad-dûm (like is it an aftershock of the creation of Mordor or something), or is it just a coincidence?  Funny that the dwarves needed rings to survive in season 1, and now the dwarves might need rings for this new problem...  I have to imagine that's why Durin gets invited to Eregion at the end!

 

I can't think of much else to say about this episode.  It felt a lot shorter then the season premiere.  And now that we've checked in with the elves, the orcs, the dwarves, and Nori and The Stranger, looking forward to checking in the Numenorians and Arondir next episode, maybe tonight!

[Richard Penna 4,109]

You're not alone with the Nori/Stranger/Poppy plot. I'd like to think I was paying a reasonable amount of attention to their scenes in season 1 (I'm finding their scenes the most interesting overall) but I've got zero clue what they're looking for or where they're going, nor why that evil new wizard guy wants them dead. It's just fun watching their interactions, unlike almost any other character in the show.

 

Normally when that happens I read up on wikipedia - I do that with Doctor Who when there's an element I didn't quite get. In this case I don't care - I'm just trying to stay with it to the end to hear Bear's music in real context. Although I'd hope that by the time we get to the Eregion battle, things might get a bit more interesting.

[Jay 39,199]

Yes I agree with everything you said.

 

I don't remember what they're up to and the recap didn't help.  But the actors playing them are really good, and good together.  And I genuinely am curious what The Stranger's whole deal is, not for lore reasons (I read the Hobbit and LOTR but haven't read anything else or remember details of ancillary stuff), but for how it could end up interacting with the other plotlines of the show eventually.

 

And I'm still not sure if Nori and Poppy are supposed to be just friends or if there's a romance there or not.  In episode 1 of this season it seemed possible but then there was nothing like that in episode 2

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

@Jayin the trailer for the rest of the season there is a shot that looks like

Spoiler

Nori Poppy going in for a kiss with another female character, perhaps one of the Stoors? (It didn't look like Poppy)

 

[Jay 39,199]

I try not to spoiler myself on upcoming episodes and just want to watch them not knowing what's coming.

 

Apart from the music of course, I devour those episode albums immediately

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

I try not to spoiler myself on upcoming episodes and just want to watch them not knowing what's coming.

 

Apart from the music of course, I devour those episode albums immediately

Ah fair enough.

[JibberJabberwocky 12]

23 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Probably not intentional, but in the TTT novelisation () the Balrog turned into a creature of slime after it reached the water at the bottom of Khazad-Dum, and Sauron was basically that here. (Both Balrogs and Sauron are Maiar)

 

 

On the subject of distance between Eregion and Lindon vs. Mordor:

 

 

Found this online interactive map that is quite nice to trace the characters' footsteps, and the site uses the Amazon map hand-drawn by Daniel Reeve.

 

https://rop-map.com

[Stark 534]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Rings of Power 2x02 - Where the Stars are Strange

 

I quite enjoyed spending time with the Dwarfs in Khazad-dûm again; they had the most consistently enjoyable scenes in the first season (and it was a shame they were only in 4 of the 8 episodes). 

 

Strangely, while episode 1 felt like it was chock FULL of course corrections (Poppy immediately returning, Halbrand back at the Forge, the Elves saved, etc), this episode kept the Durin III / Durin IV quarrel going without resolving it, which was unexpected!  I do wonder how they are going to resolve their differences, and if Dwarven Rings of Power will play a part in that...

 

Nori and The Stranger's trek across Rhûn seems so hopeless, and I've honestly forgotten why they are even there or where they are trying to get to.  However, the world of Rhûn is being built out nicely; There's a magic that can get you lost if you don't know a song (kind of worked for me), and this new evil wizard dude has a bunch of servants working for him, and a nice tower to live in.  Did I miss this guy's name, or was it not stated?  I am curious to find out more about what his motivations and goals are.  I thought he looked like Christopher Lee's take on Saruman, but I doubt it's supposed to be him, right?

 

The Stranger's magic going out of control every time he uses it is a nice way to keep him from saving the day easily all the time, but boy did his sandstorm go WAY out of control this episode!  As it went on and on, it seemed like there'd be no way the three good guys would survive it!  I wonder if there will be a specific explanation for why that staff was there near the well or not.  Hmm.

 

Halbrand continues to be one of the characters most enjoyable to watch.  I liked how he waited all day and was able to talk Cerebrimbor into hosting him.  And I liked understanding that while Galadriel, Elrond, and Gil-galad all know that Halbrand is Sauron, Cerebrimbor doesn't actually know yet .... and might just be able to forge some more rings before Elron and Galadriel finally show up.  Halbrand's big reveal as Anntar was perhaps a little over the top and cheesy... are we seeing the showmakers indulging in spectacle here, or is Annatar putting on a big show on purpose to convince Cerebrimbor to work with him?  Hmm.

 

Are we do believe Sauron somehow specifically caused the earthquake that destroyed the sun tunnels in Khazad-dûm (like is it an aftershock of the creation of Mordor or something), or is it just a coincidence?  Funny that the dwarves needed rings to survive in season 1, and now the dwarves might need rings for this new problem...  I have to imagine that's why Durin gets invited to Eregion at the end!

 

I can't think of much else to say about this episode.  It felt a lot shorter then the season premiere.  And now that we've checked in with the elves, the orcs, the dwarves, and Nori and The Stranger, looking forward to checking in the Numenorians and Arondir next episode, maybe tonight!

I believe the earthquake was just an aftershock from the volcano eruption.

 

The new wizard can’t be Saruman as that would break too much lore. Besides, the only known canon about the blue wizards is that they went to Rhun, so surely that must be one of them.

 

I think Annatar’s extravagance is appropriate, he’s claiming to be a messenger from the Valar (and he is a being of the same tier to those messengers) so some awe is in order.

 

3 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

@Jayin the trailer for the rest of the season there is a shot that looks like

  Hide contents

Nori going in for a kiss with another female character, perhaps one of the Stoors? (It didn't look like Poppy)

 

I must have missed that trailer, but if it was real then I’m certain I would have seen articles (both positive and negative) about it, haha.

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

7 minutes ago, Stark said:

I believe the earthquake was just an aftershock from the volcano eruption.

 

The new wizard can’t be Saruman as that would break too much lore. Besides, the only known canon about the blue wizards is that they went to Rhun, so surely that must be one of them.

 

I think Annatar’s extravagance is appropriate, he’s claiming to be a messenger from the Valar (and he is a being of the same tier to those messengers) so some awe is in order.

 

I must have missed that trailer, but if it was real then I’m certain I would have seen articles (both positive and negative) about it, haha.

Okay, watching it again,

Quote

Spoiler

it's actually Poppy, and it might actually be guy. I couldn't tell at first, and was more interested in watching the next two episodes than investigating further

 

 

[Jay 39,199]

2 hours ago, JibberJabberwocky said:

Found this online interactive map that is quite nice to trace the characters' footsteps, and the site uses the Amazon map hand-drawn by Daniel Reeve.

 

https://rop-map.com

 

Woah. That's a cool site. I love this kind of stuff!

[Jay 39,199]

Well I haven't seen episode 3 yet, but I remembered some things from the first two episodes I didn't mention

 

@The Great Gonzales, there was indeed a moment in episode 2 where Elrond tells Galadriel that Sauron played her like a harp, and Bear brings in a harp rendition of Sauron's theme

 

I love the whole bit about how some dwarves can sing and learn where to dig.  It's like, is it magic, or just evolutionarily tuned into hearing resonance and stuff?  It was sad that it didn't work after 900 years.

 

As silly as it was in season 1 where the elves were randomly dying and they needed the rings to fix it (somehow), the fact that in season 2 it is now the Dwarves who are in trouble and the rings will (probably) fix it somehow works better.  I like it MUCH more that it was directly caused by Mount Doom turning into a volcano that caused an earthquake that caused their sun tunnels to get blocked.

 

How is Adar alive at the dawn of the second age, but also in the current timeline of the show (which is like a thousand years into th second age, right?)?  Is it because he's really an elf?

 

The vision Galadriel has in episode 2 started out cool, with the seeds she planted for her brother turning into evil vines that killed Celebrimbor.  BUT, then when started reciting the classic "one ring to rule them all" poem, it was SO DUMB!  Sauron wouldn't have even written that yet, she'd have to reason to know about dwarven and men rings yet, etc.  Didn't like that!

 

I really liked the scene where Cirdan puts his hand in the water and the fish are drawn to the ring, and one flops out, and he says how he can put the fish back in but Sauron would kill it.  I like the threads the show has about CHOOSING to be good instead of evil.

 

I also loved the scene where Nori and Poppy were able to hide from the bronze mask guys like how Frodo and Sam did in the LOTR movie.  It's just a cool effect that is fun to see (though they came out of their hiding spot WAY too soon for my liking lol)

 

Hopefully tonight we finally watch episode 3

[Tydirium 1,254]

28 minutes ago, Jay said:

The vision Galadriel has in episode 2 started out cool, with the seeds she planted for her brother turning into evil vines that killed Celebrimbor.  BUT, then when started reciting the classic "one ring to rule them all" poem, it was SO DUMB!  Sauron wouldn't have even written that yet, she'd have to reason to know about dwarven and men rings yet, etc.  Didn't like that!

 

I guess I don’t get why that was dumb? She was having a vision of the future. In the canon, she has that ability at times.

[Jay 39,199]

I guess so.  I just don't like this kind of future seeing in fiction, often.  Strangely, I really like all the prophecy stuff in House of The Dragon, so i guess its more of an execution thing for me.

[Tydirium 1,254]

I see. The Celebrimbor thing in particular is interesting, as it is almost certainly an allusion to what I’ve seen referred to as “Celebrimbanner,” that happens sometime down the road:

 

Spoiler

“In black anger [Sauron] turned back to battle; and bearing as a banner Celebrimbor’s body hung upon a pole, shot through with Orc-arrows, he turned upon the forces of Elrond.”

[Stark 534]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Well I haven't seen episode 3 yet, but I remembered some things from the first two episodes I didn't mention

 

@The Great Gonzales, there was indeed a moment in episode 2 where Elrond tells Galadriel that Sauron played her like a harp, and Bear brings in a harp rendition of Sauron's theme

 

I love the whole bit about how some dwarves can sing and learn where to dig.  It's like, is it magic, or just evolutionarily tuned into hearing resonance and stuff?  It was sad that it didn't work after 900 years.

 

As silly as it was in season 1 where the elves were randomly dying and they needed the rings to fix it (somehow), the fact that in season 2 it is now the Dwarves who are in trouble and the rings will (probably) fix it somehow works better.  I like it MUCH more that it was directly caused by Mount Doom turning into a volcano that caused an earthquake that caused their sun tunnels to get blocked.

 

How is Adar alive at the dawn of the second age, but also in the current timeline of the show (which is like a thousand years into th second age, right?)?  Is it because he's really an elf?

 

The vision Galadriel has in episode 2 started out cool, with the seeds she planted for her brother turning into evil vines that killed Celebrimbor.  BUT, then when started reciting the classic "one ring to rule them all" poem, it was SO DUMB!  Sauron wouldn't have even written that yet, she'd have to reason to know about dwarven and men rings yet, etc.  Didn't like that!

 

I really liked the scene where Cirdan puts his hand in the water and the fish are drawn to the ring, and one flops out, and he says how he can put the fish back in but Sauron would kill it.  I like the threads the show has about CHOOSING to be good instead of evil.

 

I also loved the scene where Nori and Poppy were able to hide from the bronze mask guys like how Frodo and Sam did in the LOTR movie.  It's just a cool effect that is fun to see (though they came out of their hiding spot WAY too soon for my liking lol)

 

Hopefully tonight we finally watch episode 3

Yes, Adar is an elf.

Middle-Earth has quite a bit of foretelling devices, there’s also the Palantiri and whatever powers Galadriel’s pool in Fellowship. And in the Silmarillion there’s no shortage of uttered prophecies that all are true.

 

One thing I’ve appreciated in both seasons of this show is finally seeing hobbits hiding from big folk. That little cultural aspect never got a chance to appear in the films (and they get magic elf cloaks to hide them).

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

I can't believe they stole a joke from Home Alone for this show.

 

 

[Chen G. 4,496]

Wow but is this show weird.

 

It's nothing too awry: I'd say its along similar lines as Season One, actually. It's perfectly pleasant to look at and listen to - Bear's score is a big contributor here - and while there are undeniably patchy moments, its mostly performed with conviction. Ben Daniels is a most splendid Cirdan - so much so that one wishes he would have been cast in the bigger roles of Gil-galad - under-served by a hammy Ben Walker - or Celebrimbor, played well but in a manner much too like Holm's Bilbo by Charles Edwards. Clark's Galadriel is not particularly improved, and while the absence of Joseph Mawle as Adar is missed, I think Sam Hazeldine is a perfectly good substitute.

 

As with season one, pacing is a big problem: there's essentially a twenty-something minute prologue that achieves little except tell us some backstory about Sauron that we already guessed from Season One. The show is so busy catching us back up from Season One that we don't get to Khazad Dum until episode two, and don't regroup with the Southlanders until episode three. The Harfoot scenes, though earnestly performed, are in the first three episodes at least, filler.

 

Again like Season One, the plotting is very odd. I actually like the Orcs turning on Sauron Caesar-like, and even though his "Blobbyron" shape is bizarre, at least the sequence has atmosphere. Elrond turns to Cirdan who seems perfectly resolved to destroy the Rings, but then has a change of heart...so that the plot could happen. Khazad Dum not being able to grow crops due to an earthquake following the eruption of Orodruin, I'd buy, but them "not being able to hear the mountains" is starting to become a little much. Sauron worms his way into Eregion by means of waiting for the manager, and then telling him:

 

 

Weirder still is the retconing happening between the two seasons. Some of that is visually: the move to the UK invariably meant the show was never going to look quite like it did in Season One, creating a degree of discontinuity, but at least its shedding some - though hardly all - of its pretendquel hide: already Mithlond looks starkly different. Much more disconcerting are plot decisions that make much of season one seem rather pointless: at the close of the first season,  there was a rupture between the two Durins but season two moves towards resolving it no sooner than the see the characters again, and is all but done with it by the end of the episode. Bronwyn's death - a workaround for the actress' exit - is waved away in the most bursque way imaginable, and the rather effective split between the Harfoot besties Nori and Poppy, is undone when we learn Poppy had followed Nori into Rhun.

 

But the thing that weirds me out the most is the warped attempt to keep tabs with Tolkien. This season is clearly going for the braggining rights of showing things no previous adaptation (not a licensed one, at least) had depicted: namely, the Barrow Wights and Tom Bombadil. The latter, in particular, retains much of Tolkien's dialogue and even reproduces the Old Man Willow - sorry, Old Man Ironwood - episode. But all that is achieved is to throw into stark relief just how altered Tom is: he speaks of the Withywindle, but is known as a "hermit" ecking a life in Rhun. Old Man Ironwood grows in his garden, and catches Gandalf The Stranger rather than the four Hobbits. Goldberry is a brief offscreen voice. Iarwain is Tom's goat. He's been transformed into pretty much a direct port of Yoda, replete with an old apprentice - Ciaran Hinds sporting Christopher Lee-like brows - turning bad and a new one beckoning at the gate.

 

Still hovering around a 6/10.

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

It's a really good thing for Amazon that J.R.R. Tolkien doesn't have a blog.

[A. A. Ron 1,916]

Why the hell is Bombadil training wizards?

[Chen G. 4,496]

2 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Why the hell is Bombadil training wizards?

 

Because he's Yoda, almost to a tee.

 

I'm not even joking: its really, truly like that.

[A. A. Ron 1,916]

Then the showrunners fundamentally don't understand the character. I guess that's not surprising though given the way they've portrayed Galadriel, Sauron, Elrond, Durin, Elendil, Isildur, Gandalf....

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

50 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Then the showrunners fundamentally don't understand the character

 

Ya think?

 

I mean, we have orcs with a wife and kids now, so, anything is possible. My understanding is that in a future episode (SPOILER), Sauron will be offering dental (Eru knows they need it) and paid university to any orc who joins him. 

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

Very Bad News For ‘Rings Of Power’ Season 3, As Season 2 Viewership Plummets

 

Given that it's the most expensive show on TV, is it possible this show actually gets cancelled after Season 2?  If I were Amazon, I'd just cut their losses and reboot with a new adaptation of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.  As far as I know (perhaps @Chen G. can shed some light on this) Amazon owns the TV rights to both those books...the only proper, full length Middle-Earth novels Tolkien wrote. Then they'd actually have something to adapt.

 

HBO is doing it with Harry Potter, which is about the same age, as a film franchise, as LOTR, so why not? I'd like to see a new vision of Tolkien's world.

 

 

 

 

[tomsmoviemadness 3,466]

I think decisions about the show's future are not gonna be made until the numbers for the entire season are in, and what they'll do then.

I believe there are more shows that keep going, without high viewership. Althought they might not have as big a pricetag attached to them.

[Jay 39,199]

Numbers will pick up when football season starts (Amazon still has Thursday Night football, right?) and when the people who prefer the binge over the weekly watch begin watching

[Chen G. 4,496]

8 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

HBO is doing it with Harry Potter, which is about the same age, as a film franchise, as LOTR, so why not?

 

There is, of course, a bit of a difference: The Lord of the Rings - as a live-action cinema series - is still alive and going with The War of the Rohirrim (insert complaints about anime characters here), The Hunt for Gollum and much else beside. It seems you can't even make a small survival game about Moria - which looks nothing like Jackson's films - without getting John-Rhys Davies to voice Gimli.

 

In particular, nothing solidifies Jackson's vision of Middle-earth as THE version of Middle-earth than to see Amazon trip over themselves and jump through legal hoops to resemble his films as much as they can.

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

59 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

There is, of course, a bit of a difference: The Lord of the Rings - as a live-action cinema series - is still alive and going with The War of the Rohirrim (insert complaints about anime characters here), The Hunt for Gollum and much else beside. In particular, nothing solidifies Jackson's vision of Middle-earth as THE version of Middle-earth than to see Amazon trip over themselves and jump through legal hoops to resemble his films as much as they can.

 

No one loves Jackson's vision for Middle-Earth than me. It's iconic, and now THE vision that people associate with Tolkien.

And that's the problem. It's creatively stifling. Anyone who has even glanced at Tolkien inspired art throughout the years (particularly pre-2000) knows that there are many interpretations of Middle-Earth that look nothing like Jackson's (i.e Howe & Lee's) but are equally stunning.  I'm a PJ fan, but I'm a bigger Tolkien fan. And I know you're a big PJ fan and defender, but I'm a little surprised at your lack of interest in seeing this. 

 

And, to be blunt, as much as I love PJ's vision, I'm sceptical that either War or the Rohirrim or The Hunt for Gollum will capture the public's imagination the way The Lord of the Rings did. Given that neither of those projects are based on books, they have the same built-in fan fiction story limitations as Rings of Power.  Amazon, IMO, has a real opportunity here. They're sitting on something special if they really do have the full rights to those books.  

 

So...do they? And is there any credence to this oft-repeated story that Amazon is actually contractually obligated to five seasons of ROP?

[Stark 534]

I doubt they’re contractually obligated, but I think that “the powers that be” (like Bezos, who specifically wanted this show) will demand the show be finished, profit or not.

And while it would be interesting to see  a more accurate (longer) adaption of the books, I think that Amazon knows it’s still too soon… and from what I’ve read, the Tolkien estate specifically rejected proposals to redo LOTR, so that may very well be legally prevented.

[Chen G. 4,496]

16 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

And that's the problem. It's creatively stifling. Anyone who has even glanced at Tolkien inspired art throughout the years (particularly pre-2000) knows that there are many interpretations of Middle-Earth that look nothing like Jackson's but are equally stunning.  I'm a PJ fan, but I'm bigger Tolkien fan. And I know you're a big PJ fan and defender, but I'm a little surprised at your lack of interest in seeing this. 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I totally get it: I had a minor epiphany when during a discussion about Balrogs I realised that to seach for pictures online overwhelmingly yields art along the lines of Jackson's Minotaur-like creature (granted, this began with the Brothers Hildebrandt, and followed by Bakshi, Howe, Lee and Nasmith but it was Jackson that popularised it) and almost nothing more congruent with Tolkien's own descriptions of a more humanoid figure, as it appears rather evocativelly in artwork on my hebrew copy of the book for example.

 

I'd be perfectly interested in a new and fresh visual approach to Tolkien's major books in adaptations: I mean, I enjoy Bakshi's film in no small part for seeing someone else's take on this material, and I also find merit in the Rankin/Bass Hobbit for similar reasons. It's also something you see with the various adaptations of Dickens, Shapeskeare and so forth.

 

The issue is that, for the reasons I outlined, I don't realistically see such an adaptation forthcoming, and least of all from Amazon: they had their chance and, in spite of a million legal issues, they chose to model their show on Jackson's films. If the realistic choice is between that kind of frankenstein and something more authentically like Jackson's films, I know which one I'm choosing!

[Stark 534]

6 minutes ago, Stark said:

I doubt they’re contractually obligated, but I think that “the powers that be” (like Bezos, who specifically wanted this show) will demand the show be finished, profit or not.

And while it would be interesting to see  a more accurate (longer) adaption of the books, I think that Amazon knows it’s still too soon… and from what I’ve read, the Tolkien estate specifically rejected proposals to redo LOTR, so that may very well be legally prevented.

Per Wikipedia, which has never ever been wrong:

“HBO pitched a remake of the Lord of the Rings films which Tolkien's estate was not interested in, and Netflix pitched multiple connected series focusing on characters such as Aragorn and Gandalf which reportedly "completely freaked out the estate". Amazon did not pitch a specific story but promised to work closely with Tolkien's estate so they could "protect Tolkien's legacy", which the estate felt they were unable to do with previous adaptations.”

[A. A. Ron 1,916]

So they say. I don't see any effort being put toward protecting anything unfortunately. The HBO series might have been awesome pre-Zaslav.

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

20 minutes ago, Stark said:

I doubt they’re contractually obligated, but I think that “the powers that be” (like Bezos, who specifically wanted this show) will demand the show be finished, profit or not.

 

Yeah, speaking as an attorney, I've always been sceptical of this claim that they're contractually obligated for 5 seasons. That's...just not how these contracts are written, and in any event such an agreement would be difficult to enforce. I mean, perhaps there's some kind of anticipatory breach clause which would require Amazon to pay the estate a fee in such an event (and even this I find unlikely) but that would surely be less than continuing to produce a show that's losing money.  I think this notion that Amazon HAS to produce five seasons probably started with sloppy reporting and is now just repeated as gospel by ROP fans. Not that Amazon would cancel, they'd just fire the show runners and bring in a new team, even they were going to continue the ROP "story". 

 

And the Tolkien estate has their money, why should they care if Amazon cancels anyway?

[Chen G. 4,496]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

So they say.

 

I'm also a little skeptical of this reporting: It's not clear to me whether or not it came via Amazon as in "You thought our idea is dubious? Wait till you hear what the other streamers were going to do with it!"

 

I have a hard time believing HBO of all streamers would opt for a clean slate re-adaptation and at any rate the "series focusing on characters such as Aragorn" was what Amazon were going to do for the longest time.

[Holko 10,127]

8 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

If I were Amazon, I'd just cut their losses

No, no, NOnono. The only way I'll accept it now is if they give Bear a detailed  outline of what s3-5 would have been, and fund him writing and recording and releasing a good couple of hours of music for it! And the more stupid money these stupid giant companies burn for nothing, the closer we get to a collapse and course change!

 

8 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

and reboot with a new adaptation of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

Uuuugh

[Tydirium 1,254]

Cool little voice cameo in this latest episode by Raya Yarbrough as “Goldberry.” I guess that clarifies her character role on the soundtrack in “The River-daughter”!

[Jay 39,199]

The Rings of Power 2x03 The Eagle and the Sceptre

 

I enjoyed this episode as well, but it is a LITTLE strange the way that the writers spread out the storylines so far this season.  Having this episode be almost entirely the Iisldur/Estrid/Arondir story and the Numenor story, with a litlte bit of Dwarves and Celebrimbor/Annatar, without any Galadriel, Elrond, Gil-galad, Nori/Stranger/Rhûn at all was noticeably unusual, I felt.  It might have made more sense start some of this stuff (like Isildur and Shelob, and resetting of life in Numenor) in one of the first two episodes, and maybe save some beats of Galadriel and Elrond's story or the sandstorm/well sequence for this episode, to kind of keep all the stories in motion through the opening three episodes instead of pausing some of them for entire episodes.   I guess its less important when binging everything, but spaced out like I've watched them, this episode just lacked the "drive" that both of the first two episodes had.

 

The recap at the beginning was very helpful for me to remember what's what with all these Numenor characters, but even with it I was a bit lost about the stakes of what having or using a palantir means, what differences would happen if one person was in charge instead of another, and stuff like that.  I kind of feel like something is lost with Numenor stuff, maybe the rumors of filming then deleting Numenor scenes is true.  I hope it comes together by the end of the season.

 

I quite enjoyed Isildur's storyline throughout the episode.  The escape from Shelob was pretty intense and nicely creepy.  BTW, is the soundtrack's album titles the only way to even know that that spider was supposed to be Shelob?  Was there anything on screen that would let the viewer know that this big spider is THE big spider?  There were big spiders in the Hobbit movie too, in a different forest, so I dunno what reason anyone would have to think that this was Shelob specifically unless I missed something.

 

The Estrid character was interesting.  I felt the whole time like something was off, so the reveal that she had Adar's mark was pretty good.  But was she burning it off because she doesn't want to be caught, or is she renouncing Adar now?

 

Killing off Bronwyn was a little strange.  If the actress didn't want to come back, why not just recast the character? It worked for Adar, and countless other people on countless other shows in the past.  Weird.  Arondir's crazy acrobatics kind of made me laugh, and seem like they were trying to hard to make him into Legolas 2.0.  But his more dramatic scenes I quite enjoyed; I wonder what arc his character will go on this season?

 

As always, the Dwarf scenes were excellent and highlights of the episode.  Durin IV and Disa parlaying with Celebrimbor and Annatar was great, but the best scene was Durin IV talking with Durin III.  Both actors did a remarkable job, and I love that Durin IV doesn't trust what's going on in Eregion but they're kinda stuck.  The way Annatar smooth-talked Celebrimbor into getting what he wanted was also well-done.

 

I liked the night adventure to go get Berrick back from the wild men, and how the Ents intervened to save the day.  Can't wait to see them next episode.  Hopefully tomorrow!

[tomsmoviemadness 3,466]

 

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

I liked the night adventure to go get Berrick back from the wild men, and how the Ents intervened to save the day.  Can't wait to see them next episode.  Hopefully tomorrow!

Not really important, but the horses name is spelled Berek.

 

The only real way to connect to Shelob specifically is that it takes place in Mordor.

 

The Queen is associated with Elves, which certain portions of Numenor are starting to resent, and the Palantir is elven.

 

It's possible they felt Adar was easier to recast, with the prosthetics and makeup.

[Stark 534]

I think the showrunners realized Bronwyn wasn’t a particularly interesting character, and neither was her romance, and the actress’s retirement was a fortuitous opportunity to tighten the story. It’s entirely conceivable that “an elf human romance” was a studio mandate from the start, but one that the creative team was able to loosen.

[VenomVeVenom 20]

On 03/09/2024 at 9:49 AM, Stark said:

Both are driven by a lust for “order” and control of all things, with the differences being in power level and strategy.

 

IIRC, it is Sauron who's obsessed with order and control. Morgoth is the rage driven dude who wants chaos and total destruction of Ilúvatar's creation (as he wanted power over Arda and began destroying everything when he was refused this)

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

34 minutes ago, VenomVeVenom said:

 

IIRC, it is Sauron who's obsessed with order and control. Morgoth is the rage driven dude who wants chaos and total destruction of Ilúvatar's creation (as he wanted power over Arda and began destroying everything when he was refused this)

I dunno if this is entirely accurate, I think he's just envious, and so he ruins others work, since he can't make anything himself.

 

So, yes, but actually no...

 

Sauron is basically just as evil, except for the fact that he didn't serve himself, but another for the longest time.

[VenomVeVenom 20]

35 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

I dunno if this is entirely accurate, I think he's just envious, and so he ruins others work, since he can't make anything himself.

 

So, yes, but actually no...

 

Sauron is basically just as evil, except for the fact that he didn't serve himself, but another for the longest time.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. They're both in the same level of "evilness", but had differnet ways of expressing things.