Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Jay 39,199]

The Rings of Power 2x04 Eldest

 

I really liked this episode, tons of cool scenes and world building in it.  It still lacks the "drive" that the first two episodes had, but it seems like a lot of pieces have fallen into place now, and next week should be picking up in that regard.

 

Tom Bombadil was the clear highlight of the episode for me; Roy Kinnear's performance was excellent, and everyone had a lot of fun with making all his scenes what they are.  I like that they had him singing to himself often, but miss the big songs from the novel.  I remember him singing a boisterous song when he saved the hobbits from the trees that ate them, and again when he saved them from the barrow-wights.  Maybe bigger songs are coming in future episodes, although the fact that the season album only has Kinnear singing once is worrisome.  I did feel like the episode kinda forgot about Bombadil in the second half.  It felt like there should have been another scene with him and the Stranger in this episode... I'm curious to see what they are up to next week!

 

Nori and Poppy finding the Stoors was really enjoyable too, I thought.  The loredrop about the wandering ways of the Harfoots due to them trying to find The Shire, and the eventual Hobbits living their sort of inhabiting traits of both Harfoots and Stoors, was the kind of world building I really enjoy.  I like seeing the Stoors living in holes in the canyon and everything else about them; I hope we get more of them next week!

 

I was happy that Arondir figured out that Estrid had Adar's mark right away, and that that wasn't dragged out all season.  I also really liked that it still isn't completely clear if she's good or bad;  Sure, she tried to rescue them from the mud, but that's exactly something a spy trying to get deeply ingrained would do.  I think the dynamics of knowing she could be a spy are more interesting than the main characters being clueless about her.  I was also surprised that she really did have a betrothed, making it seem plausible she really hasn't been lying to them much at all.

 

The mud beast scene was cool; as implausible as it is that they cold hold their breath and survive e as long as they did under there, I just love the cool elf action in the show.  It was fun when Arondir came out with "supper"

 

I am finding both Theo and Isildur to be better characters this season than they were last season.  We know what Isildur's ultimate fate will be, but I have to assume since they are keeping Theo around even without Bronwyn, that he'll be important too;  An eventual wringwraith perhaps?  I wonder if they're planning on doing a time jump at some point.

 

The Ents were yet another nice addition to the world here.  I thought that they were wonderfully realized, and like that we get to see an Entwive too (since we couldn't in the movie for obvious reasons).  Jim Broadbent and Olivia Williams (love her!) did nice voicework, and the words they speak with were all so compelling. Talking about forgiveness taking an age, and peace being like the quiet in the morning, etc was all very good.  I am curious about Arondir's promise to protect the forest; Does that mean he'll spend the rest of the series in this one location?  Hmm.

 

The elves storyline was probably my least favorite of the episode.  Conceptually, it's fine that the fastest route to Eregion is blocked, and they must choose between two alternates, one which seems faster, but Galadriel says her ring is telling her to avoid, and Elrond chooses that option.  But the way it was executed, I didn't understand why they couldn't just climb down the canyon, cross, and climb back up - these are elves, not men.  Then, the whole barrow wights sequence I liked just fine, no real complaints.  It was actually really cool the way the wights used those chains, which ties in to the previous episode where we saw something with chains attacking the messager with Gil-galad's message.  So Sauron wasn't DIRECTLY involved in blocking the message from getting to Celebrimbor, but by destroying the bridge, he did send the messagers towards the barrow wights.

But then the end of the episode was the silliest part of the episode, and the season so far.  How in the world did these elves, consisting of not only Galadriel and Elrond, but the "finest warriors" or whatever the others were supposed to be, not hear an ARMY OF ORCS until they were shooting at that horse nearby?  They'd realisticly be making SO much noise, the elves would have heard them LONG before getting this close. It was just lazy writing to get to the plot point they wanted, which is Galadriel sacrificing herself to save the ring, so now she'll be captured by Adar for a while before breaking free and kicking ass, and Elrond can go back to Lindon and get the elves ready for the Siege of Eregion.

 

 

Halfway through the season, I'd say that is is overall significantly better than season 1 so far, though still has many of the same writing issues the first season had.  They've fixed a lot, but I'm still worried things will fall apart in the second half again, like they did last season.  We'll see!

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

37 minutes ago, Jay said:

Tom Bombadil was the clear highlight of the episode for me

 

 

[Jay 39,199]

I forget to mention how cool the elf action was at the end of the episode.  Galadriel spinning and jumping all over the place, grabbing torches and lighting arrows on fire mid air, etc.  I love this stuff!   And it was interest that they contrasted how handily she was owning all the random orcs, with how easily Adar just shut her down.  He's an old elf too!  I wonder what kinds of conversations they will have before she breaks free.

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

Interestingly, she knows 100% Halbrand is actually Sauron.

[Jay 39,199]

Yeah, I was confused when this season started, and Adar was fooled by Halbrand, and had no idea he was Sauron.

 

Didn't season 1 have a scene where Adar saw Halbrand and said something like "I killed you" or something like that?

[Stark 534]

I thought the barrow wight scene was pretty bad, but everything else about this episode was quite good.

[tomsmoviemadness 3,466]

Halbrand says to Adar if he remembers him and all we see is that Adar gives a bit of a confused look.

 

He might've figured it out after Sauron in his Halbrand form was at Mordor in Ep. 1 of this season.

[Chen G. 4,496]

9 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

 

It's really, TRULY like that.

 

Our wizard-to-be is TOLD to go to the place where this guy lives.

Said guy is a quirky hermit living alone in the wilderness.

When they meet, said hermit plays dumb.

There's an evil tree (Old Man Ironwood)

Our prospective wizard wants the hermit to teach him to wield a lightsaber staff

Quirky hermit is reluctant to teach our prospective wizard, because a previous apprentice turned to evil

There's even the "You will be. You will be" kind of thing.

And the "stopped they must be. On this all depends" moment.

[Holko 10,127]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

 

There's an evil tree (Old Man Ironwood)

Because of course the same thing has to happen in both his hoods, there cannot be a single ounce of creativity.

[Chen G. 4,496]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

Because of course the same thing has to happen in both his hoods

 

Oh, and the goat is called Iarwain...

 

Because why ever not!

[Monoverantus 508]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

The elves storyline was probably my least favorite of the episode.  Conceptually, it's fine that the fastest route to Eregion is blocked, and they must choose between two alternates, one which seems faster, but Galadriel says her ring is telling her to avoid, and Elrond chooses that option.  But the way it was executed, I didn't understand why they couldn't just climb down the canyon, cross, and climb back up - these are elves, not men.

Even before that, why are they not ahorse? For every piece of dialogue hammering home how urgent their mission is, the glaring fact that they should've taken horses became harder to ignore, and yet they somehow did.

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Oh, and the goat is called Iarwain...

 

Because why ever not!

This season is really reveling in Biblical imagery. Annatar as a heavenly messenger/standing unharmed inside the fiery hearth, the lamb of god... just wait till the Stranger gets his staff and starts splitting the sea...

[VenomVeVenom 20]

1 hour ago, Monoverantus said:

This season is really reveling in Biblical imagery. Annatar as a heavenly messenger/standing unharmed inside the fiery hearth, the lamb of god... just wait till the Stranger gets his staff and starts splitting the sea...

Wait till the mightiest of angels and the favourite of God becomes evil and starts wreaking havoc... Oh wait, that's Satan.

[Richard Penna 4,109]

1 hour ago, Monoverantus said:

 

This season is really reveling in Biblical imagery. Annatar as a heavenly messenger/standing unharmed inside the fiery hearth, the lamb of god... just wait till the Stranger gets his staff and starts splitting the sea...

 

I can't be the only one who laughed a bit during the Annatar reveal as it looked so biblical and OTT. (Also using the phrase Lord of the Rings is tight!)

[Jay 39,199]

For me it was so over the top it circled back into being incredibly enjoyable. I wish this show did more crazy fantasy stuff like that instead of largely sticking to the more grounded stuff like PJ did

[Chen G. 4,496]

32 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I can't be the only one who laughed a bit during the Annatar reveal

 

You're not.

[Monoverantus 508]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

For me it was so over the top it circled back into being incredibly enjoyable. I wish this show did more crazy fantasy stuff like that instead of largely sticking to the more grounded stuff like PJ did

100%. It does seem like the show really wants to explore the more overtly fairytale-like aspects of Tolkien, but can't seem to commit fully to it. Why didn't the Eagle just say what he was there for?

[Jay 39,199]

Yeah that's my biggest issue right now - incosistent tone.  When the show sings, it really sings, but then so many less-good parts are constantly coming in between the parts I most enjoy.  Oh well.

 

At least the actors and music are 100% reliable, and there's so much to appreciate visually.  I love the map-into-scene-start stuff they've been doing.  HOTD needs more of this kind of stuff to set up locations better!

[Stark 534]

I’ve complained before about TROP failing to convey the sense of scale (season 1, it barely felt like Lindon and Eregion were different places!) and I’m not sure they’ve entirely fixed this, but at least it’s better with the maps and actual dialogue about distances. We just need more traveling montages…

[Jay 39,199]

SPOILERS for episode 5 based on the episode album's music

 

Spoiler

So there's a track on the episode album called "Mirdania Emerges".  Mirdania is the new cute blonde assistant that Celebrimbor has this season:

 

 

 

The music is dark and mysterious and features Sauron's theme twice.  So is she going to be revealed to be a secret minion of his?  How would that work, or even be necessary?  He's already infiltrated the forge himself.  Could she be working AGAINST Sauron somehow?  Who could she be?  Is there a character in the lore that could have disguised him/herself as this assistant lady to get close to either Celebrimbor or Sauron for reasons?

 

[Monoverantus 508]

Gotta say that I agree with the majority that this was probably the best episode of the show so far. #1 reason being that it was the first that exclusively adapted canon 2nd Age content... the stuff that we always wanted this show to be about.

[Richard Penna 4,109]

I'm probably going to be the outlier, show-wise this week - it had a few moments of interest, but by and large I found it a very dull episode. It was kind of interesting to see the ring's effect and Celebrimbor start to suspect something iffy is going on, but with the paint-by-numbers antgonist at the end and the out of nowhere stabbing (that whole scene was absolutely terrible writing) I found myself drifting during some of the extended discussion sequences. However, absolutely top-drawer scoring.

 

Obvious build-up right at the end for the battle at Eregion so hopefully things are about to liven up.

[Chen G. 4,496]

It was a better episode, yes, if only because it wasn't catching us up from last season and instead was actually moving the plot forward (funny when shows do that).

 

Also, is...is that stock footage spliced into the episode? 

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

 

Also, is...is that stock footage spliced into the episode? 

It definitely felt that way!

[DarthDementous 1,209]

Amazon prime ads sure as something
   

 

[crocodile 8,440]

It might have been my favourite episode of the show so far.

 

Karol

[Monoverantus 508]

What this episode really highlights to me is how much the show has wasted its own potential. Most of the good stuff they're now getting to is undercut due to critical decisions since S1:

Celebrimbor and Narvi making the Doors of Durin - My #1 gripe with Season 1 was how much it sidelined Celebrimbor in favor of Elrond, and my suggestion was to switch their roles: Celebrimbor should have been the one spending most of S1 with the Dwarves (preferably Narvi), having rock-smashing contests and finding/naming Mithril. How anticlimactic is it to have the culmination of the collaboration between Elves and Dwarves be put in the first scene the two share? I have absolutely no attachment to Narvi whatsoever (what even is he, a "Delve-master" or a craftsman???).

Pharazôn grappling with the mortality of Men - This should've been his main motivation since the beginning. The whole "the Elves are gonna take our jobs" crap is so time- and place-specific, while the fear of death is part of the universal human experience.

The civil war on Númenor - how on earth could Pharazôn grab power so quickly? I get that he got a lot of popular support from the Eagle stunt, but what exactly happened after that? Did he just walk over to the sceptre and take it with no interference? When Míriel learns what Elendil saw in the palantír, she starts to think Pharazon's coup might have been for the greater good, but she didn't know that in ep 3, so why did she let him usurp her throne with little to no resistance?

[Chen G. 4,496]

9 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

how on earth could Pharazôn grab power so quickly? I get that he got a lot of popular support from the Eagle stunt, but what exactly happened after that? Did he just walk over to the sceptre and take it with no interference?

 

The show treats Numenore as, essentially, a modern democracy with a medieval paintjob smattered ontop.

[Richard Penna 4,109]

7 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Amazon prime ads sure as something

 

Particularly as they've clearly put little thought into where those ads go and how it works mechanically. Even if they are appropropriately placed narratively, they cut in just before a buildup releases, and when you replay a section where an ad had kicked in there's a very noticeable splutter. It's been so poorly implemented, probably so as to maximise their profit from the millions they're no doubt getting from their advertisers.

 

My strategy is that when I first load a show and see all those markers indicating a break, I sacrifice two minutes by clicking on each one and diverting attention elsewhere (muted, of course), then I can view it ad-free.

 

That's before my redacted rant about Amazon wanting even more money on top of the small fortune we already pay for Prime in the first place.

[Monoverantus 508]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The show treats Numenore as, essentially, a modern democracy with a medieval paintjob smattered ontop.

I've been thinking about this, and sure, in some ways the show makes it explicit ("no one bows in Númenor"), but mostly implicit: people of importance like Elendil and Pharazôn are often seen in ordinary taverns, or the fact that a woman straight up slapped the Queen Regent with no repercussions.

The thing is, I'm not sure that's an intentional decision, or just a general inconsistency in the writing. The courts of Lindon and Khazad-dûm are generally much more segregated and ceremonial, but regularly have these weirdly out-of-place behaviors too: Elrond and Celebrimbor walking up to Khazad-dûm with neither horses nor escort, Durin and Disa shopping in the market like it's a regular chore, Elrond facing 0% consequences for disobeying his king. Sure, you can make individual justifications for most of these (the woman was acting erratic out of grief, the Dwarves are naturally pragmatic and down-to-earth, Elrond was punished off-screen) and maybe I'm just overly cynical, but as we say in Sweden: "many small streams form a river".

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

10 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The show treats Numenore as, essentially, a modern democracy with a medieval paintjob smattered ontop.

 

Eventually the peasants will rise up, form a mob and attempt to murder one of the corrupt officials, in the true spirit of Tolkien.

[Jay 39,199]

The Rings of Power 2x05 Halls of Stone

 

I liked this episode!  All the stuff with Annatar in the Forge is compelling and fun, and all the Khazad-dûm scenes have been consistently among the best parts of the show in both seasons.  The Numenor stuff, I'm still struggling to get on board with, but overall, the episode really cooked.

 

Let's start with Númenor.  What I am struggling with with this plotline is: What is the difference between what each side wants, and who am I supposed to be rooting for?  It seems like Ar-Pharazôn, Kemen, and Eärien are the "bad guys" while Miriel, Elendil, and Valandil are the "good guys", but I have no idea what difference it would make to the place if one side won vs the other.  Why are they at odds instead of getting along in the first place, and how would life for the small folk be different based on who "wins"?  Am I overthinking things or am I missing/forgetting something?  Who can help me out here?

 

I enjoyed seeing Durin III use the ring to bring light back into Khazad-dûm.  It does show the ring can do an unequivocally good thing, I mean he didn't even have to dig too deep, too close to the Balrog like when they were tying to get Mithril.  It seems the penalty is that its making him be greedy, but maybe that greed was always in him, and he just didn't have a good way to act on it before?

 

Disa chasing that bowling ball down the stairs into a cavern (right next to the market...) was interesting.  I assume it's the Balrog making the water shake like that right?  I didn't necessarily think the new holes to bring light in would affect him like the previous digging for mithril did, but maybe it did.  At first I was a bit surprised that they didn't resolve the Durin III vs Durin IV stuff early in the season like they did with a lot of other season 1 plots, but now I'm on board with watching them be at odds all season again, now the ring is involved.  And it seems like the other six rings have made their way to the other dwarf-lords, so it will be curious to see if we learn about what they do with them (its not like they all need to make new sunlight holes).

 

Charlie Vickers is killing it as Annatar!  I love watching him slowly and slyly plant seeds in people's minds to get what he wants.  I loved how he spun that the dwarven rings must be corrupted because Celebrimbor wrote that lying letter to Gil-galad.  I'm surprised nobody has pointed out though that in season 1, Galadriel had to sacrifice her dagger to make the three elven rings and now this season nothing's had to be sacrificed to make the dwarven ones?

 

I really don't know what to make of a random ring they forged both turning Mirdania invisible, AND her seeing The Unseen World while invisible.  I had always thoughts that was something that only started happening after Sauron started gaining power late in the third age, hence why Bilbo was unaffected in The Hobbit up through his 111th birthday in LOTR.  And I thought only the One Ring turned you invisible.  Hmmm.

 

But anyways, I liked the way that Annatar manipulated her too.  I like where this storyline is going, in the sense that now it seems there's going to be race against time, with Celebrimbor and his crew trying to craft these perfect rings before Adar and his orcs storm the gats and take over Eregion.

 

And at the end of the episode, it seems Adar thinks Galadriel will be willing to help his side, because she knows Sauron is in Eregion?  But I thought Adar didn't know Halbrand was Sauron?  But now he does?  Does that mean he let Halbrand go on purpose, knowing he would follow and attack him there?  But then why not just kill him when he had the chance?  So that means he doesn't know? Then why does he want to attack Eregion again?  Oh my, I'm lost...

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

In the books Gandalf mentions lesser Rings of Power, that were basically prototypes (?) and that he had hoped the Bilbo's was one of those cheapies.

[Jay 39,199]

Huh. That's kinda cool!

[The Great Gonzales 6,224]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

Huh. That's kinda cool!

Yeah, and Gandalf even implies that other great Rings exist that have some of the same Negative effects as the One, for example, the unnatural, unfulfilling long life, and fading.

 

 

In terms of Numenor:

 

Elendil side is faithful to the Valar (gods) and are Elf-Friends

 

Pharazon's side is not, they are unsatisfied with their place in Middle-Earth, mortality and so on. (At least in the lore)

[Holko 10,127]

6 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

In terms of Numenor:

 

Elendil side is faithful to the Valar (gods) and are Elf-Friends

 

Pharazon's side is not, they are unsatisfied with their place in Middle-Earth, mortality and so on. (At least in the lore)

I don't know how clear the show makes it but it's also important that Númenor was a gift from the Valar to the faithful Men who helped in the First Age wars - they cannot enter Valinor but now they had a small continent made for them in the middle of the sea from which they could just barely glimpse it. (Of course S1E1 already showed Valinor hidden by the force field for...whatever reason.) So not being grateful, faithful and satisfied, and the worse things they will be, is a huge betrayal.

[DarthDementous 1,209]

20 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Particularly as they've clearly put little thought into where those ads go and how it works mechanically. Even if they are appropropriately placed narratively, they cut in just before a buildup releases, and when you replay a section where an ad had kicked in there's a very noticeable splutter. It's been so poorly implemented, probably so as to maximise their profit from the millions they're no doubt getting from their advertisers.

 

My strategy is that when I first load a show and see all those markers indicating a break, I sacrifice two minutes by clicking on each one and diverting attention elsewhere (muted, of course), then I can view it ad-free.

 

That's before my redacted rant about Amazon wanting even more money on top of the small fortune we already pay for Prime in the first place.

Hmm, that's a good tip. I'll have to use that in the future to avoid future burger jump scares

I think the problem is you do need subscribers to be paying a small fortune to support these insanely expensive projects, it looks like streaming is starting to collapse back into cable because the value proposition of 100s of pieces of content, a lot of it original and produced by the streaming service, all for the price of less than buying one of those pieces of content per month, is actually terrible from a business standpoint

It is all very tiresome and makes me long for the days of physical media so I don't have to worry about which spider web of streaming networks I'm paying for to get the content I want, with the very likely scenario it'll be stripped away at any moment

[Jay 39,199]

12 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

In terms of Numenor:

 

Elendil side is faithful to the Valar (gods) and are Elf-Friends

 

Pharazon's side is not, they are unsatisfied with their place in Middle-Earth, mortality and so on. (At least in the lore)

 

Ok but as a viewer who I am supposed to be rooting for?

 

House of the Dragon has a similar civil war with two sides wanting to rule the same place. In that show I want Rhaenyra to win, because it's what the former ruler wanted and she's shiwj to be better at it, while Aegon and Aemond stole the crown and are shown to constantly make bad decisions for the realm.

 

But also, we follow some regular commoners/ small folk and see how Aemond's choice to close the gates of the city is cutting off the food supply and affecting their ability to feed their family, while Rhaenyra has good secretly delivered to everyone. Small things like that help me understand how the life of the people being ruled will be affected based on which ruler comes out on top.

 

With Numenor in this show, I have no idea what the difference would be. So why do I care who wins?

6 hours ago, Holko said:

I don't know how clear the show makes it but it's also important that Númenor was a gift from the Valar to the faithful Men who helped in the First Age wars - they cannot enter Valinor but now they had a small continent made for them in the middle of the sea from which they could just barely glimpse it. (Of course S1E1 already showed Valinor hidden by the force field for...whatever reason.) So not being grateful, faithful and satisfied, and the worse things they will be, is a huge betrayal.

 

Oh I see and kind of remember that now.

 

So if the Miriel/Elendil side wins, they get to live in peace in their paradise that the Valar gifted them. If the Pharazon/Earien side wins, the Valar will destroy Numenor in a great wave for betraying them? 

 

That I can understand 

[Monoverantus 508]

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

Ok but as a viewer who I am supposed to be rooting for?

Case in point, really. If you don't establish motivations early on, the only way an audience can tell which side to root for is which has the nice characters and which has the mean characters.

[Richard Penna 4,109]

I find it hard to care what's going on in Numenor - I'm following the story with the same difficulty, and probably apathy. It doesn't help when you have scenes like that stabbing one at the end of episode 5 where they've invented a cookie-cutter villain that's meant to make the audience dislike them.

 

There may come a point where a major plot hinges upon a character turning or realizing a motive and I'm not going to understand the significance of it, but as long as the music is engaging and thematically exciting, I'm happy.

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

6 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

I think the problem is you do need subscribers to be paying a small fortune to support these insanely expensive projects, it looks like streaming is starting to collapse back into cable because the value proposition of 100s of pieces of content, a lot of it original and produced by the streaming service, all for the price of less than buying one of those pieces of content per month, is actually terrible from a business standpoint

 

[Jay 39,199]

I will say that as much as I've complained about the show, I overall do like it.

 

I think that season 2 is overall better than season 1.  And I think that the good parts do outweigh the bad parts.

 

I guess there's just more to say about the bad and confusing parts than there is to say about the good parts.

 

But I am looking forward to seeing what happens in the final 3 episodes of the season.

[Monoverantus 508]

I don't know if this is gonna be too political for this forum, but if an admin thinks I'm going too far, just delete it. Note that I'm myself quite center-left, so please don't read this as a sort of "anti-woke" rant.

 

I'm sceptical that the writers will do the politics of Númenor justice, because let's face it, it's not the type of story Hollywwod likes to make. Whether or not Tolkien intended this kind of interpretation, the Fall of Númenor is about a war between conservatives who wants to preserve the old ways and progressives who try to up-end the natural order, the hierarchy set in place by Eru Illúvatar, and at the end it's quite unequivocal that the conservatives are good and the progressives are bad.

Since the status quo for Hollywood is the opposite message, the showrunners must now bend over backwards to make the King's Men seem like intolerant conservatives ("The Elves will take our jobs!", "Elf-lover!") lest they alienate their own audience.

[Taikomochi 1,213]

I don’t see anything wrong with pointing out the awkwardness of the show’s internal politics. I was thinking they’ve also written themselves into a bit of a corner with the taxation in the dwarf storyline, something that could be read as political and have real world analogy, where the writers will bend over backwards to avoid any appearance of actually making a political statement. Seems like they have no choice but to cartoon-ize everything so that there is no possibility of being read with any political depth in either direction. 

[Stark 534]

2 hours ago, Monoverantus said:

I don't know if this is gonna be too political for this forum, but if an admin thinks I'm going too far, just delete it. Note that I'm myself quite center-left, so please don't read this as a sort of "anti-woke" rant.

 

I'm sceptical that the writers will do the politics of Númenor justice, because let's face it, it's not the type of story Hollywwod likes to make. Whether or not Tolkien intended this kind of interpretation, the Fall of Númenor is about a war between conservatives who wants to preserve the old ways and progressives who try to up-end the natural order, the hierarchy set in place by Eru Illúvatar, and at the end it's quite unequivocal that the conservatives are good and the progressives are bad.

Since the status quo for Hollywood is the opposite message, the showrunners must now bend over backwards to make the King's Men seem like intolerant conservatives ("The Elves will take our jobs!", "Elf-lover!") lest they alienate their own audience.

I’ve wondered this myself, but in this past episode (also straying dangerously close to politics), the writers had a religious faithful disarmed by an evil atheist government, so I don’t think they’re shying away from the storyline? please don’t ban me

[Monoverantus 508]

8 minutes ago, Stark said:

I’ve wondered this myself, but in this past episode (also straying dangerously close to politics), the writers had a religious faithful disarmed by an evil atheist government, so I don’t think they’re shying away from the storyline? please don’t ban me

I will grant them that. As I've mentioned before about the prevalence of Biblical imagery, I do believe the (outspoken Christian) writers are keen on preserving the religious aspects of the story. In fact, this too complements my opinion that ep 5 was the closest to Tolkien they've come so far, and I only wish the rest had been so faithful (pun intended).

[Jay 39,199]

It's certainly fine to talk about the politics and religion that influenced Tolkien's writing, as well as all the politics and religion within the world of the show.

 

The rule is largely about making sure people don't advocate for political and religious sides of current real world stuff, triggering fights and veering threads off topic. But everything you're talking about is on topic for this show

[A. A. Ron 1,916]

So I see people like the new season more, but out of curiosity, is there anyone here who straight up didn't like Season 1 that does like Season 2?

[Jay 39,199]

Why would someone who didn't like season 1 watch season 2?

[DarthDementous 1,209]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

So I see people like the new season more, but out of curiosity, is there anyone here who straight up didn't like Season 1 that does like Season 2?

 

I am in this camp, because I was checked out with every single plot line in Season 1 but in Season 2 I've found some stuff to grasp onto like Sauron's manipulation of Celebrimbor

 

Overall the show seems more focused and taking place in a context where significant things are happening, compared to Season 1 which was like a slice of life except you weren't engaged with the characters I.e. torturous boredom for most of the runtime

[Nick1Ø66 5,752]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Why would someone who didn't like season 1 watch season 2?

 

I'd think some people would want to give it another chance?

 

However, the ratings for season 2 are down from season 1 (which haemorrhaged viewers during the season), and concurrently the audience score for season 2 is up, which is a pretty good sign that the people who didn't like the show have dropped out, leaving mostly just the fans.