Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Chen G. 4,765]

I still need to do a side-by-side of Bombadil and Yoda, because I find it utterly bewildering.

 

The latest episode even had "decide, you must, how to aid them best."

[DrPsych 35]

6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I still need to do a side-by-side of Bombadil and Yoda, because I find it utterly bewildering.

 

The latest episode even had "decide, you must, how to aid them best."

This. It's almost like "role of wizard mentor" has to follow a pre-determined script. But... I do like Bombadil's song...

[Monoverantus 563]

3 hours ago, DrPsych said:

Three words: Get. A. Life. If you don't like a show, just go watch something you DO like. 

I'm in the awkward position of liking the music but being overwhelmingly disappointed with the show, so a) I can't stop watching, and b) I always get new stuff I need to vent. Since I have a foot both in the fan- and hate communities, I've seen A LOT of both unearned praise and undeserved hate.

However, I generally try to reserve judgement until the end of the season, lest I fuel the sort of pointless, cyclical ramblings that I otherwise detest. Since I've already failed to do so this season, I stand as a perfect example of this: Due to a couple of premature conclusions, I publicly lamented the likelyhood of Damrod being a main character, and by now it's quite obvious my whinging was unfounded. I was wrong. I shall therefore try better to wait in silence until I can voice my issues with informed opinions.

[Holko 10,614]

17 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

I'm in the awkward position of liking the music but being overwhelmingly disappointed with the show, so a) I can't stop watching,

Not to agree with him but... I love the music, listen to the episode albums as soon as possible as they are... ahem... available, but I haven't watched any of this thing since S1E3. It's possible, you can do it! I believe in you!

[A. A. Ron 2,035]

I only watched the first season, but I too play every episode album as soon as I can.

[Monoverantus 563]

16 minutes ago, Holko said:

Not to agree with him but... I love the music, listen to the episode albums as soon as possible as they are... ahem... available, but I haven't watched any of this thing since S1E3. It's possible, you can do it! I believe in you!

I think I put too much value in the music's interaction with the story and visuals to follow you on that path.

[Richard P 4,359]

Me too - the best way for me to discover new score is to hear it in context. If there are any moments in Bear's scores that I don't quite click with, I look out for it in the show and get the full meaning.

 

Things would be very different had the showrunners gone for a different musical direction, such as an RCP-flavoured score, or just a composer who didn't have the same thematic chops. It has such a huge effect on the watchability of the show.

[Chen G. 4,765]

20 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

I think I put too much value in the music's interaction with the story and visuals to follow you on that path.

 

Me too. There's a reason I listen opera (and I prefer to watch rather than listen) and not so much symphonies.

[Jay 40,135]

Man.  I watched the latest episode on Sunday and it was just a JOY to hear Bear's great music in context.

 

Regardless of if you think the show is good or not, if you like Bear's music, I absolutely think it's worth watching every episode at least once to appreciate the context is which the great music is written for.

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

I'm not sure if we have any Braveheart fans on this site, but there was an interesting observation in Forbes review of the latest episode:

 

Quote

Speaking of cribbing scenes from better works, in Númenor William Wallace is in the Tower of London awaiting execution when Princess Isabelle comes to plead with him to confess. Sorry, Elendil is imprisoned awaiting execution, and Tar-Míriel comes to plead with him to bend the knee to Ar-Pharazôn. He tells her that he’d rather die than sacrifice his integrity.

The writers and showrunners of Rings Of Power have nothing on Mel Gibson.

 

[Chen G. 4,765]

3 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I'm not sure if we have any Braveheart fans on this site, but there was an interesting observation in Forbes review of the latest episode:

 

I caught that while watching! It's not as egregious to me as the Yoda contrafactum that happens each time Tom Bombadil is onscreen: its a relatively fleeting similarity, anyway.

 

Needless to say, its not as good as the classic scene, not least because the way the scene is written at one point Elendil comes across as a terribly unfeeling father.

[Monoverantus 563]

3 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I'm not sure if we have any Braveheart fans on this site

If by "fan" you once again allow for people who love the music and hate the movie/show... 

[Taikomochi 1,260]

I think seeing it in context adds a lot to the music. For example, from the recent episode, “Sauron’s Illusion” would not hit nearly as hard if I didn’t know how ironically it was playing against what was actually happening in the show. I’d probably just take it as generic pretty music otherwise, but, knowing the context, it’s dramatically brilliant scoring.

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It's not as egregious to me as the Yoda contrafactum that happens each time Tom Bombadil is onscreen

 

Yeah, he mentions that in his review as well. 

 

Quote

The Stranger and Tom Bombadil have a truly bizarre conversation in which the former sees a vision of Nori in trouble and wants to go help his friend. Yoda tells Luke Skywalker that he has to make a choice. Help his friends or seek his destiny. I’m sorry, but how is this not cribbed entirely from The Empire Strikes Back and Luke’s rash decision to leave Dagobah before his training is complete, rushing off to Cloud City and a fateful confrontation with his father. Bombadil says the Stranger has to make a choice, but before he does the merry fellow disappears, and his hut and “not Goldberry” with him. Bombadil remains utterly unlike the character from the books, deeply vested in the fate of Middle-earth, just a quirky NPC quest-giver to help not-Gandalf on his journey.

 

[Chen G. 4,765]

2 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

If by "fan" you once again allow for people who love the music and hate the movie/show... 

 

But...but... 

 

Is that a misused and overwrought Wagnerite quote Chen is about to pull in praise of his favourite movie? You betcha!

 

"'It took more skill to plan and make it than it took to plan and write the whole canon of Shakespeare."

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

7 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

If by "fan" you once again allow for people who love the music and hate the movie/show... 

 

Not sure what you mean? I was referring to fans of Braveheart who might recognize that scene in ROP. And I think Bear's music is quite good, and, along with some nice performances by Peter Mullan and Robert Aramayo, is the best part of the show.

 

In any event, I don't "allow" for anything. People of course are free to like or dislike whatever they wish, for whatever reasons they wish.

[Monoverantus 563]

6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

his favourite movie

You might perhaps give me the long and short of what's to like about it. I'll give it that it has one good action scene (the Battle of Stirling No-Bridge), but IMO as a drama it's flat, as a romance it's schmaltzy and as a historical epic it's hilariously inaccurate.

[Doo_liss 6,962]

2 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

You might perhaps give me the long and short of what's to like about it. I'll give it that it has one good action scene (the Battle of Stirling No-Bridge), but IMO as a drama it's flat, as a romance it's schmaltzy and as a historical epic it's hilariously inaccurate.

Something something Wagner something something tragedy something something inspiration for Jackson something something er.... something.

[Monoverantus 563]

11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

In any event, I don't "allow" for anything. People of course are free to like or dislike whatever they wish, for whatever reasons they wish.

[Chen G. 4,765]

15 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

You might perhaps give me the long and short of what's to like about it. I'll give it that it has one good action scene (the Battle of Stirling No-Bridge), but IMO as a drama it's flat, as a romance it's schmaltzy and as a historical epic it's hilariously inaccurate.

 

I can do a kind of walk-through of watching it. Actually, the first I watched it I was much too young: the memory of everything from around the time Murron is killed going forward was etched into my mind, but it was not a pleasant memory.

 

Then, oh, in 2014? I watched it again. Opens up with beautiful Scottish scenery...okay. The opening scene with the hanging corpses? Okay, opening a wee bit too strong there, movie, but let's see what you've got in store. "But its our wits that make us Men"...okay, there may be something here.

 

Then this happened:

 

 

And I was hooked.

 

It's such a simple idea of visual storytelling: kid sees cart in the deep background, runs towards it enthusiastically (its important that we see the kid AND the cart in the shot),  closeup of the kid, then cut to the camera looking around the group of people: Williams' father is not there but there's SOMETHING ON THE CART, cut back to the kid to make us see he's seen it and then you cut to a profile of the kid pretending to be minding his chores but the cart is always in the back of shot: here's a young boy trying to block out the bad news that he knows is coming and won't admit to.

[Holko 10,614]

31 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

For example, from the recent episode, “Sauron’s Illusion” would not hit nearly as hard if I didn’t know how ironically it was playing against what was actually happening in the show. I’d probably just take it as generic pretty music otherwise, but, knowing the context, it’s dramatically brilliant scoring.

Not generic at all and the title gave me enough context.

[Taikomochi 1,260]

I actually don’t think the title gives enough context

[Monoverantus 563]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Actually, the first I watched it I was much too young: the memory of everything from around the time Murron is killed going forward was etched into my mind, but it was not a pleasant memory.

Funny, my family did try watching it when I was way too young. My parents turned it off after Murron's death...

[Bellosh 3,967]

correct me if i'm wrong, but Bombadil would have not given a second thought to talking about Sauron...right?

 

been a while since I read his chapter in fellowship ---- but in the clip i saw he acts like he cares.  Real bombadil does not care, its not even a blip on his radar.  He wouldn't even be bothered to have a discussion about Sauron.

 

my personal theory on tom is that he was just algamation of all the good and peace in the world, where as Ungoliant was the exact algamation of evil and darkness.  Just random products of the world that Eru created

[Chen G. 4,765]

25 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

been a while since I read his chapter in fellowship ---- but in the clip i saw he acts like he cares.  Real bombadil does not care, its not even a blip on his radar.  He wouldn't even be bothered to have a discussion about Sauron.

 

 

In the novel, yes. He gets a little sad thinking about Arnor at one point, but otherwise he remains carefree and outside the conflict. And he certainly doesn't train wizards!

 

Here he isn't like that, because he's not really Tom Bombadil: he's Yoda.

[Doo_liss 6,962]

He would care less about your big conflictsband such, and more about daily life, in the novel he asks the Hobbits about happenings in the shire, and has dealings with Elves, and Farmer Maggot.

[Bellosh 3,967]

Just now, The Great Gonzales said:

He would care less about your big conflictsband such, and more about daily life, in the novel he asks the Hobbits about happenings in the shire, and has dealings with Elves, and Farmer Maggot.

 

prob cause those are all 'good' people

[Doo_liss 6,962]

Little fun fact:

 

In the lore Celebrimbor's Smith group is called the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, "the People of the Jewel-smiths"

 

Mírdain - Mírdania?

 

[Stark 579]

2 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Little fun fact:

 

In the lore Celebrimbor's Smith group is called the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, "the People of the Jewel-smiths"

 

Mírdain - Mírdania?

 

I noticed that the other day, probably just a cute reference

[DarthDementous 1,265]

4 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Little fun fact:

 

In the lore Celebrimbor's Smith group is called the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, "the People of the Jewel-smiths"

 

Mírdain - Mírdania?

 

Yes, I'm pretty sure 'Mirdania' translates to 'jewel' in one of the Elven tongues

[Doo_liss 6,962]

24 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

Yes, I'm pretty sure 'Mirdania' translates to 'jewel' in one of the Elven tongues

Mírdain is Jewel-smith in Sindarin

 

Mîr is Jewel

 

Mìrë is Quenya for Jewel

[Schilkeman 1,331]

On 23/09/2024 at 3:00 PM, Chen G. said:

cut to a profile of the kid pretending to be minding his chores but the cart is always in the back of shot:

I actually started disliking the movie right there. He cowards out and cuts away (at 2:40 of the clip). Spielberg or Jackson would have stayed on him longer, and gotten a more complex emotional response. I thought, here might be something inspired, then it dies. Much like Wallace, really. If you want to see a better version of this sort of thing, watch the season 5 Buffy masterpiece The Body. I've never thought so much about paper towels.

 

 

On topic, I have nothing to add for RoP. I haven't seen an episode of it, and probably won't, but I enjoy reading people's arguments about it.

[Chen G. 4,765]

I think it holds long enough: its certainly not a movie that's rushing through shots...

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

On 23/9/2024 at 1:00 PM, Chen G. said:

It's such a simple idea of visual storytelling: kid sees cart in the deep background, runs towards it enthusiastically (its important that we see the kid AND the cart in the shot),  closeup of the kid, then cut to the camera looking around the group of people: Williams' father is not there but there's SOMETHING ON THE CART, cut back to the kid to make us see he's seen it and then you cut to a profile of the kid pretending to be minding his chores but the cart is always in the back of shot: here's a young boy trying to block out the bad news that he knows is coming and won't admit to.

 

I've always loved this scene, Gibson handles it masterfully. The way he continues on his chores in the face of tragedy...an instant, unconscious human reaction to what he's just seen, he puts his mind elsewhere. It's very common, and real, response. It's also a great character moment, because the adult Wallace reacts in a similar, but more assertive way to death. The immediate reaction to Murron's murder is not grieving, that comes later. It's getting on with it and taking action, again, almost on an unconscious level. Wallace is a man possessed when he goes after the English, as if some external force is driving him. It's the little boy going about his chores.

 

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Spielberg...would have stayed on him longer, and gotten a more complex emotional response.

 

Nah. At 2:20, Spielberg would have shown William staring at the cart, then cut to close up of the bucket falling out of his hand as he dropped it, with the water seeping into the ground. The camera would hold for a second on the overturned bucket, with the cart in the background. Then we'd have a wide shot of the sun rising over the Highlands, with the lone silhouette of young William running into the hills. We hear the sound of cows mooing in the distance. 

[Chen G. 4,765]

6 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The way he continues on his chores in the face of tragedy...an instant, unconscious human reaction to what he's just seen, he puts his mind elsewhere. It's very common, and real, response.

 

Yeah, it has a kind of "Da told me to do my chores so that's what I'll do. When da comes back, he won't be happy if he finds out I didn't do my chores..." type of denial to it.

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Jackson would have stayed on him longer, and gotten a more complex emotional response

 

Jackson would have shown William’s father rise from the cart, bloodied and cleaved, and lead a zombie horde of undead Scots against the English. 

[Stark 579]

I’d watch that movie too!

[Edmilson 9,391]

I wasn't planning on seeing this new season, but my mom saw ads for it on TV and so we saw the first episode of S2.

 

Wow. I never imagined I'd see Sauron like this: as an underdog. Not even the Orcs want him as their king or whatever, in fact they tried to kill him and almost succeeded. This Sauron is (at least for the moment) so weak and beaten and humiliated, I never think this specific character would be represented like this.

 

Does this have any basis on Tolkien's writing? Was Sauron at least for a period this underdog who is fighting to be taken seriously by the orcs and that Adar guy? Or for always he has been this powerful Lord of All Evil that I thought?

 

Anyway, the chapter was decent, mostly because the annoying and boring characters of the series (that Southern woman and her son, Durin and his father, Isildur and his family and the rest of the Numenoreans) didn't appear. 

 

But I never thought I'd watch something set in the LOTR world and root for Sauron... lol

[Stark 579]

Sauron as an underdog is an extrapolation, but it is canon that he was meek for a time after Morgoth’s defeat (when that prologue occurs), and I’m told that Tolkien did conceive of the orcs being somewhat resistant before I regained control over them. So I think that sequence is reasonably plausible.

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

19 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Does this have any basis on Tolkien's writing?

 

Spoiler

 

[Edmilson 9,391]

20 minutes ago, Stark said:

Sauron as an underdog is an extrapolation, but it is canon that he was meek for a time after Morgoth’s defeat (when that prologue occurs), and I’m told that Tolkien did conceive of the orcs being somewhat resistant before I regained control over them. So I think that sequence is reasonably plausible.

I mean, Voldemort was also meek after he got defeated for the first time but his minions still respected him to some degree lol. The Orcs are actively trying to kill Sauron and treating him with utter contempt.

 

Maybe the orcs would be resistant to him (after all, as far as I know he and Morgoth led them to a war where they ultimately were defeated) but to the point of humiliating him to this degree is very... unexpected.

 

And I saw on the synopsis for the next episodes that Galadriel will team up with Adar so they can find and kill Sauron. Which makes sense since he's their common enemy, but still not what I expected lol.

[Stark 579]

That description of the synopsis does not match what‘a aired so far, for what it’s worth

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

Quote

And I saw on the synopsis for the next episodes that Galadriel will team up with Adar 

 so they can find and kill Sauron.

 

[Doo_liss 6,962]

12 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I mean, Voldemort was also meek after he got defeated for the first time but his minions still respected him to some degree lol. The Orcs are actively trying to kill Sauron and treating him with utter contempt.

 

Maybe the orcs would be resistant to him (after all, as far as I know he and Morgoth led them to a war where they ultimately were defeated) but to the point of humiliating him to this degree is very... unexpected.

 

And I saw on the synopsis for the next episodes that Galadriel will team up with Adar so they can find and kill Sauron. Which makes sense since he's their common enemy, but still not what I expected lol.

After the fall of Morgoth, in the Lore some said Sauron did an almost Gollum, and repented, but he was too proud to submit to judgement and possibly having to do Valar community service, and he stayed in Middle-Earth and fell back into evil.

3 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Adar

Arondir

Bronwyn

"Halbrand"

Theo

Poppy

Sadoc

Disa

Eärien

Estrid

Largo

Marigol

Bronwyn

F*cking Mystics

Galadriel allied with Orc

 

If the Dark Wizard is a Blue Wizard, then there is the offhand comment about them starting cults in the East...

 

And of course with Halbrand, Sauron is said to have been able to appear "in many forms", but yes, nowhere in the lore that I have read does it say "Sauron pretended to be a man of the South and convince Celebrimbor and Galadriel to forge the three Rings"

[Chen G. 4,765]

12 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

If the Dark Wizard is a Blue Wizard, then there is the offhand comment about them starting cults in the East...

 

The Dark Wizard is a sorta Blue Wizard.

 

The Stranger is Gandalf.

[Doo_liss 6,962]

Further on the subject of "RoP trying to be the Jackson films, but not" in the LOTR films the Argonath were changed to Isildur and Elendil, instead of Isildur and Anarion as in the books.

 

And who is not in RoP? (That I know of anyway) Anarion.

[Chen G. 4,765]

6 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

And who is not in RoP? (That I know of anyway) Anarion.

 

I think that was done for a different reason: they added Earien as effectivelly a gender-bent Anarion, but rather than say they gender-bent the character they talk about Anarion as though he's slumming it on the western shore for some reason. I could see him coming into the plot later.

[Stark 579]

Anarion has been confirmed to exist, and Earion seems to have nothing in common with him anyway. I’m assuming next season we’ll see Elendil and Anarion among the faithful.

[Bellosh 3,967]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The Stranger is Gandalf.

 

I could have been a janitor in those writing/production meetings and I'd drop my mop and say don't do this.  They'd throw me out of the room but fuck it 

 

The world knows Ian McKellen as Gandalf.  It's literally ONLY downhill after having another character/adaptation of Gandalf.

 

Absolutely insane 

[Nick1Ø66 6,075]

17 hours ago, Bellosh said:

I could have been a janitor in those writing/production meetings and I'd drop my mop and say don't do this.  They'd throw me out of the room but fuck it 

 

Actually, no matter their original intention, they have no choice now but for it to be Gandalf. There’s been too much attention, too much importance, and too much screen time given to the character for it to be anyone else. And anyone else would be a massive letdown to the vast majority of whatever audience they have left who never heard of the Blue Wizards. It would be like, after three years of speculation, Rey turning out to be nobody in TLJ  x10.

 

Look, I can't say for sure it's Gandalf, with these writers, who knows. But what’s their endgame if it’s not Gandalf? “Ha ha, fooled you, it’s not Gandalf, just this random wizard no one ever heard of?” Gandalf is by far the most recognizable character they have the right and ability to use, so how can they not use him?

 

Amazon is enjoying the speculation to be sure, but I think it’s really only a debate among Tolkien geeks and ROP cultists. My guess is the show runners are surprised themselves at the debate, I image they’re like “we just figured everyone would assume it’s Gandalf”.  Though again, the writing on this show has been abysmal, so I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

 

17 hours ago, Bellosh said:

The world knows Ian McKellen as Gandalf.  It's literally ONLY downhill after having another character/adaptation of Gandalf.

Really? After everything that’s happened, you think that’s the breaking point? Having another actor play Gandalf?