Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Jay 45,625]

Oh also, a few episodes when Elrond went back to Lindon to ask Gil-galad to send his army to Eregion, didn't Gil-galad say that it was impossible because he already sent the army to Mordor?

 

Did I miss an explanation for why they were able to show up at Eregion anyway this episode?

[Monoverantus 580]

53 minutes ago, Jay said:

Oh also, a few episodes when Elrond went back to Lindon to ask Gil-galad to send his army to Eregion, didn't Gil-galad say that it was impossible because he already sent the army to Mordor?

He didn't, he just said that they didn't have the strength to face Adar and Sauron alone.

[Jay 45,625]

Hmm ok

[Chen G. 5,946]

Yeah. Also something about "This is all part of Sauron's plan."

 

(I'm fine, by the way )

[TheUlyssesian 2,696]

What's the saying—if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all? I have myself asked people here to moderate their sentiments.

 

I'll keep my remarks brief. Episode 7 was terrible I thought. Absolutely terrible. Now I have no problem with the lore and stuff. I can easily look past that. I do have problems with narrative construction, drama, staging, character consistency, logic etc. All failed for me in Episode 7 and even in prior episodes. I waited to comment because I was promised Episode 7 would deliver. Well, it didn't deliver for me. I think the score is extraordinary, the design is mostly quite good. Even the actors I generally love - almost all of them. What fails is the writing and directing. This is a poorly written show. The writers are clearly in over their heads. And the direction is so subpar - even compared to something like the Thrones shows on HBO. There is some amateur hour going on here. This is an enormous waste of money and even time and resources frankly. The series is so lugubriously paced, and so little of note happens that a good writer would have been able to accomplish Season 2's entire plot in a single 2 hr 40 min movie without even rushing anything. It just all feels barely sketched out. So yeah, I'll rest. But wanted to be frank about my feelings about the show.

[Monoverantus 580]

Couldn't have said it better. 

[Jay 45,625]

I figure I'll re-ask some questions I asked before that no one replied to lol

 

So did anyone else think Damrod was killed to easily?  I waited all episode for him to show up, and then they bunched all his scenes together in one block where he only kicked ass for a little bit, before getting his ass handed to him by Arondir, Elrond, and Gil-galad.  If they had split the scene up after he started causing destruction, it would have felt like he was actually kicking ass for a while. Instead he went out pretty quickly I thought.

 

What did ya'll think?

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

I think it was @Chen G.that said he "went out like a punk"?

[Jay 45,625]

Pretty much.  All hyped up for a very short scene where he's mostly losing.  And it would have been so easy to show him winning for a while first

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

All hyped up for a very short scene where he's mostly using. 

Well that explains everything! He was high! That's why he was laughing when he died

[Jay 45,625]

ha!  Typo fixed

 

 

~

 

So, do ya'll think Arondir is dead or nah?

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

ha!  Typo fixed

 

 

~

 

So, do ya'll think Arondir is dead or nah?

Doesn't his theme show up in your episode 8 album breakdown?

[Jay 45,625]

That means nothing

 

I feel like that duel will be full of Sauron showing Galadriel various visions which is why so many themes are in it

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

That means nothing

 

I feel like that duel will be full of Sauron showing Galadriel various visions which is why so many themes are in it

That's probably true.

 

Interestingly though the Arondir theme appears sandwiched inbetween the Khazad-Dum and Durin themes, not Arondir > Khazad-Dum > Durin or Khazad-Dum > Durin > Arondir.

 

Doubt it actually means anything beyond Bear thinking that was the best order to present them musically (or if it was because of what was on screen, perhaps the visions are sort of "arguing" if that makes sense?)

[Tydirium 1,563]

I mean, Arondir is seen fighting in the previews for Episode 8, so he’s clearly not dead. Dwarves are seen fighting as well.

[Jay 45,625]

Oh I wouldn't know, don't watch any previews

[Tydirium 1,563]

.

 

[TolkienSS 518]

Elendil pulling out Narsil after Miriel tells him to reclaim his lordship and find his destiny, filmed the same manner as in Return of the King, is so freaking cringe.

[Chen G. 5,946]

It was. Also Gandalf's staff was done in that Amazon "tilt your head and it kinda looks like the staff from Fellowship of the Ring, sorta." At least the valley of Imladris didn't really look like New Line's, mercifully.

 

Even that aspect of the show notwithstanding, this was not a very good episode. Lots of magic, some of it to an effect not dissimilar to Superman reversing time to revive Lois Lane in Superman. A redemption arc for the secondary antagonist, of course: totally unearned and utterly bankrupt morally.

[TolkienSS 518]

I can't believe they didn't even feel the slightest bit of shame to actually use the "a wizard doesn't choose his staff, the staff chooses the wizard" line.

How much did this cost again?

[Chen G. 5,946]

2 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

How much did this cost again?

 

I remember reading this season was something like $150 million, but I could be wrong.

 

Season One was about $400 mill.

[Bilbo 4,274]

There’s definitely money laundering going on. I’m convinced if it. There’s no way that much money is being spent on this crap.

[Barnald 437]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

How much did this cost again?

 

Whatever the souls of the Tolkien Estate are valued at these days.

[Richard P 5,190]

After the extremely enjoyable episode 7, that was a bit pants really. The Numenor storyline is still boring as hell and it felt like Eregion fell very quickly, leaving most of it to watching Galadriel and Sauron duelling and some more faffing with Gandalf (yep, we're allowed to call him that now), although on the plus side the performances by Vickers and Edwards were remarkable. The ending was also a bit silly - somehow a rallying soliloquy from Galadriel makes all the Elves suddenly forget they're tired and battle worn.

 

But oh my, Bear ended it on a high. I decided to skip the album listen for this last episode and hear it first in the show and I loved it - some really great variations on Adar's theme, the wonderful Estrid statement, and the emotional 'wrap up' tone of the whole thing meant the music needed to be front and centre.

[crocodile 9,587]

I have to say I have a very mixed feelings about the finale. It felt very messy. I am not, by any means, a hater of this show but some things irked me slightly this time. Like the Narsil scene, for example, which seems to mirror pretty much exactly the Anduril reveal from Peter Jackson's films. That was very unsubtle and cheeky reference that, unfortunately, pushes the series into a parody/rip-off territory. I don't think that was necessary or that it did the show any favours. There were a few moments like that (Poppy's Sam monologue etc). I like the show the most when it doesn't try to do stuff like that.

 

But there were things I actually quite liked. Celembrimbor's final scene was actually probably the best moment in the episode.

 

Karol

[Laserschwert 671]

So, why was Arondir alive? I was convinced he's been killed by Adar in the previous episode.

[Chen G. 5,946]

14 minutes ago, Laserschwert said:

I was convinced he's been killed by Adar in the previous episode.

 

Galadriel wa stabbed clear through the chest and then leapt down a cliff and lived to tell the tale...and its Arondir you're concerned about? 

[Laserschwert 671]

14 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Galadriel wa stabbed clear through the chest and then leapt down a cliff and lived to tell the tale...and its Arondir you're concerned about? 

At least she had the ring to heal herself. Even if it wasn't on her finger.

[Nick1Ø66 7,907]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Galadriel was stabbed clear through the chest and then leapt down a cliff

 

She got better.

[Jurassic Shark 16,275]

Well, she's an elf.

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Well, she's an elf.

So is Arondir!

[Jurassic Shark 16,275]

Who?

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Who?

The character this whole conversation is really about!

[Luke Skywalker 2,352]

So, "It was Gandalf all along"

[Stark 944]

Good finale albeit rather rushed. The worst storyline this season was undoubtably in Rhun, which was somehow both rushed and tedious… a next season without the hobbits might do it some good. 

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

Speaking of next season:

 

One Ring?

Ringwraiths?

Sauron in Numenor?

[Monoverantus 580]

Am I the only one who recalls the Siege of Eregion being merketed as a "3-episode battle", because in hindsight that feels like false advertising.

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

1 hour ago, Monoverantus said:

Am I the only one who recalls the Siege of Eregion being merketed as a "3-episode battle", because in hindsight that feels like false advertising.

Well  the Siege itself did take place over the last 3 episodes, but only 2 focused on the actual battle aspect

[Jay 45,625]

2 hours ago, Monoverantus said:

Am I the only one who recalls the Siege of Eregion being merketed as a "3-episode battle", because in hindsight that feels like false advertising.

 

Here's exactly what they said:

 

"The Siege of Eregion is the big climax at the end of season 2," co-showrunner Patrick McKay teases to GamesRadar+. "It starts in episode 6, goes through 7 and goes deep into 8, and each sequence is a different phase of this battle. Siege battles take place historically, not over a night or a day, but over months, and we wanted you to feel the weight of that, we wanted you to feel the layers of each of that."

 

https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/lord-of-the-rings-tv-shows/the-rings-of-power-season-2-siege-of-eregion-battle-exclusive-showrunners-interview/

 

[Stark 944]

3 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Speaking of next season:

 

One Ring?

Ringwraiths?

Sauron in Numenor?

My expectation is the One will be forged early in the season and several of the Nine will be distributed, and the season will end with Numenor coming and “capturing” Sauron.

[Rachael Foley 9,821]

2 minutes ago, Stark said:

My expectation is the One will be forged early in the season and several of the Nine will be distributed, and the season will end with Numenor coming and “capturing” Sauron.

I hope they aren't tempted to move the construction of the One after the Numenor situation, in a misguided attempt to "explain" why he couldn't defeat Numenor with it in his possession.

[Stark 944]

If they change anything, I’d expect them to make it more blatantly “Sauron goes with them by his own plan” than delaying the One, which is the next (and last?) big thing that normies know.

[TolkienSS 518]

12 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Galadriel wa stabbed clear through the chest and then leapt down a cliff and lived to tell the tale...and its Arondir you're concerned about? 

 

When she woke up, I was almost convinced Elrond's voiceover would tell her to come back into the light, and say "welcome to Rivendell, Miss Galadriel"

 

And what I would give to hear Shore's Wagnerian take on the forging scenes.

[Monoverantus 580]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Here's exactly what they said:

 

"The Siege of Eregion is the big climax at the end of season 2," co-showrunner Patrick McKay teases to GamesRadar+. "It starts in episode 6, goes through 7 and goes deep into 8, and each sequence is a different phase of this battle. Siege battles take place historically, not over a night or a day, but over months, and we wanted you to feel the weight of that, we wanted you to feel the layers of each of that."

 

https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/lord-of-the-rings-tv-shows/the-rings-of-power-season-2-siege-of-eregion-battle-exclusive-showrunners-interview/

 

See, none of this is strictly false, but let's be real, it was a 1-episode battle. Sure, there were a few more developments in ep 8 (Eregion overrun, Elrond and the others captured, the Dwarves arriving) but none of those were approached with anywhere near the same scale. The Dwarves coming to the rescue was, like, 2 shots.

I really gotta know if this season had the same problem as House of the Dragon (being cut down from 10 episodes to 8) because it, like many of my most damning critiques of this season, really seems to be a victim of excessive cutting. There are so many times I've felt like whole scenes are just missing.

[Chen G. 5,946]

39 minutes ago, Monoverantus said:

I really gotta know if this season had the same problem as House of the Dragon (being cut down from 10 episodes to 8) because it, like many of my most damning critiques of this season, really seems to be a victim of excessive cutting. There are so many times I've felt like whole scenes are just missing.

 

Nah. Season One was actually like that, but even there I think it happened early enough in the process as to not explain away the show's shortcomings. But certainly by the time they got to work on Season Two they will have known they would be writing for an eight-episodes-of-an-hour's-length season.

[Jay 45,625]

Their contract says they can only make 8 episodes per season

[Jay 45,625]

The Rings of Power creators reveal how The Stranger’s true identity was decided

 

McKay and Payne say the Stranger wasn’t always intended to be Gandalf, a powerful wizard also known in Tolkien’s writing as Olórin.

“No one will believe us, but this was a journey of discovery for the character and the characters around him, and it was a journey of discovery for the writers,” McKay says. “We wanted this to be the origin story of a wizard coming to terms with who he is and what he has to do.”

 

Payne adds that they went deep into Tokien’s legendarium to look at which wizards would have been around in the Second Age. “Deep in the history of Middle-earth, Volume 12, he confirms that Olórin had already visited Middle-earth. So Tolkien left it open that Gandalf may have come earlier than the Third Age,” he says. “But there were also things that we discovered inside the story that really seemed to fit with the character as you meet him later on.”

 

There were other options for the Stranger’s identity, including Saruman and the Blue Wizards. But McKay and Payne discarded those because they didn’t make sense for the story. By the Season 1 finale, the showrunners had solidified their decision and reverse-engineered the details from there. The Stranger even uttered one of Gandalf’s most famous lines: “If in doubt, always follow your nose.”

[Nick1Ø66 7,907]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

The Rings of Power creators reveal how The Stranger’s true identity was decided

 

McKay and Payne say the Stranger wasn’t always intended to be Gandalf, a powerful wizard also known in Tolkien’s writing as Olórin.

“No one will believe us, but this was a journey of discovery for the character and the characters around him, and it was a journey of discovery for the writers,” McKay says. “We wanted this to be the origin story of a wizard coming to terms with who he is and what he has to do.”

 

Payne adds that they went deep into Tokien’s legendarium to look at which wizards would have been around in the Second Age. “Deep in the history of Middle-earth, Volume 12, he confirms that Olórin had already visited Middle-earth. So Tolkien left it open that Gandalf may have come earlier than the Third Age,” he says. “But there were also things that we discovered inside the story that really seemed to fit with the character as you meet him later on.”

 

There were other options for the Stranger’s identity, including Saruman and the Blue Wizards. But McKay and Payne discarded those because they didn’t make sense for the story. By the Season 1 finale, the showrunners had solidified their decision and reverse-engineered the details from there. The Stranger even uttered one of Gandalf’s most famous lines: “If in doubt, always follow your nose.”

 

TLDR: We’re making it up as we go along. 

 

I sort of suspected this is what was going on, that while their original intention may not have been for The Stranger to be Gandalf, there was pretty much no place else for them to go with it.  Though I suspect they came to that conclusion long before they're suggesting here.

 

On 25/9/2024 at 5:40 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

No matter their original intention, they have no choice now but for it to be Gandalf. There’s been too much attention, too much importance, and too much screen time given to the character for it to be anyone else. And anyone else would be a massive letdown to the vast majority of whatever audience they have left who never heard of the Blue Wizards.

[Bilbo 4,274]

17 hours ago, Jay said:

The Rings of Power creators reveal how The Stranger’s true identity was decided

 

McKay and Payne say the Stranger wasn’t always intended to be Gandalf, a powerful wizard also known in Tolkien’s writing as Olórin.

“No one will believe us, but this was a journey of discovery for the character and the characters around him, and it was a journey of discovery for the writers,” McKay says. “We wanted this to be the origin story of a wizard coming to terms with who he is and what he has to do.”

 

Payne adds that they went deep into Tokien’s legendarium to look at which wizards would have been around in the Second Age. “Deep in the history of Middle-earth, Volume 12, he confirms that Olórin had already visited Middle-earth. So Tolkien left it open that Gandalf may have come earlier than the Third Age,” he says. “But there were also things that we discovered inside the story that really seemed to fit with the character as you meet him later on.”

 

There were other options for the Stranger’s identity, including Saruman and the Blue Wizards. But McKay and Payne discarded those because they didn’t make sense for the story. By the Season 1 finale, the showrunners had solidified their decision and reverse-engineered the details from there. The Stranger even uttered one of Gandalf’s most famous lines: “If in doubt, always follow your nose.”

oh God

[Chen G. 5,946]

40 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

oh God

 

Oh that's nothing. Wait till you see how wasted Ciaran Hinds as Wizard-who-looks-like-Saruman-but-isn't is in this. Or how Galadriel gets stabbed clear through the chest and then falls a huge cliff but is okay because "Of course, Nenya tears have healing powers." which is to say nothing about how Tom Bombadil because a beat-by-beat recreation of the Yoda scenes from The Empire Strikes Back.