Rings of Power The Rings of Power show discussion - spoilers allowed for all aired episodes

[Bilbo 3,906]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Oh that's nothing. Wait till you see how wasted Ciaran Hinds as Wizard-who-looks-like-Saruman-but-isn't is in this. Or how Galadriel gets stabbed clear through the chest and then falls a huge cliff but is okay because "Of course, Nenya tears have healing powers." which is to say nothing about how Tom Bombadil because a beat-by-beat recreation of the Yoda scenes from The Empire Strikes Back.

And people are enjoying this crap? 
 

I watched season 1. That was more than enough for me. Too much. 

[Chen G. 4,767]

3 hours ago, Bilbo said:

And people are enjoying this crap? 

 

People will tell you season two is a huge improvement.

 

It isn't. It's a little more fast-paced and that's it.

[Stark 579]

Season 2 is a huge improvement… but the wizard side of the plot is still bad.

[Chen G. 4,767]

When I watched Season One I pinpointed what was for me its three main stumbling blocks: one, it was WAAAAAAAAY too slow; two, it had some incredibly contrived "fantasy" plotting; three, it had too little of its own visual identity and spent way too much energy plagiarising the films.

 

Season Two has all the above: the first three episodes, for example, are entirely done to catch you back up from the previous season. Numenore feels like its benched. Everytime we cut to Rhun I can hear the squeal  of the brakes. The contrived fantasy plotting is back: I mean, Adar's great plan is that the combined power of the Crown of Morgoth and Galadriel's Ring could kill Sauron for good because...magic? And what is the point of Sauron as the great deciever if, the minute that Celebrimbor becomes the least bit suspicious, Sauron uses his magical "get out of jail free" card by using a spell to make him see things that aren't there? And Magic Ring or no, nobody should survive the fall that Galadriel made:

 

 

The film similarities are held somewhat more at bay, but only some of the time. When the Elves go to battle with blade-crested helmets wielding two-handed polearms and fighting a Troll that looks like Bill Huggins' cousin...

[TolkienSS 474]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

People will tell you season two is a huge improvement.

 

It isn't. It's a little more fast-paced and that's it.

 

Season 2 goes something like this ...

 

Amazon: Season 2 is alot closer to the lore!

 

Also Amazon: HOBBITS IN THE DESERT AND GALADRIEL JOINS ORC ARMY

[Nick1Ø66 6,076]

I’ve mostly stayed out of discussing the individual episodes of season 2, mainly because I didn’t have much good to say, so what was the point, and also because I think I fast forwarded through probably 60% of the first five episodes. But now that the season’s done, and we’re unlikely to see any more of this show for a couple of years, if that, I’ll offer some overall thoughts.

 

Before this show premiered, I had two criteria for evaluating it:

 

1. How well does it work as a Tolkien adaptation?

2. How well does it work as a “generic” fantasy TV show?

 

Season one failed in both respects. It’s now obvious to even the show’s most ardent supporters that Rings of Power is essentially fan fiction, this is known, so as an “adaption” of Tolkien, even in the loosest sense of the word, it failed. And due largely to stunningly poor writing, season one also failed as generic fantasy TV. The snail's pace and clumsy plotting just didn’t make for satisfying viewing. Worst of all, it was just boring.

 

Season two continues to be fan fiction, and that’s where the series will remain, it can’t be anything but. And as generic fantasy TV, the first 2/3 of season 2 has many of the same problems as season 1. That said, the show does improve somewhat in the last few episodes, mainly due to the pacing picking up and things actually happening. So in that respect, while nowhere near great, it’s a step up from the first season…but only just.

 

So if, and when the show finally returns for a third season, perhaps Amazon can build on this somewhat and draw in enough Prime subscribers who will buy enough toasters to at least partially offset the confiscatory IP price they paid for what ended up being a generic fantasy show.

[Doo_liss 6,970]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Magic Ring or no, nobody should survive the fall that Galadriel made:

 

 

 

Gandalf survived a fall inside a mountain long enough to climb back up to the peak..... (Yeah yeah I know. Maiar.)

[TolkienSS 474]

Rings Of Power isn't fan fiction, it's hate fiction.

[Doo_liss 6,970]

6 hours ago, Bilbo said:

And people are enjoying this crap? 
 

I watched season 1. That was more than enough for me. Too much. 

I actually saw a article that basically said "Rings of Power helped me understand/care more about things while rewatching the LOTR trilogy"

[Chen G. 4,767]

2 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Gandalf survived a fall inside a mountain long enough to climb back up to the peak..... (Yeah yeah I know. Maiar.)

 

I think the fact that they fall into water has a big part in the believability of the thing. And yes, I know falling into water from that height you might as well be falling on concrete, but visually it does make the difference, plus the fact that he's Maia, plus the fact that films pull this kind of schtick LESS so you're willing to accept the exceptions.

 

It's less the Temple of Doom-like "surviving sure death" aspect of it for me and more the reliance on magic in the thing. So they made the three because apparently Mithril is some magic substance because it was created from the hatred of a Balrog and the purity of an Elven warrior and so putting it into Rings could stop the Elves fading because reasons; then they make the seven, but Annatar somehow manages to convince Celebrimbor that because he made them while lying to the high-king the, erm, bad vibes of that lie went into the Rings because reasons...and then they make nine as if to "atone" (?) for the seven...

 

I'm reminded of endless comments of Jackson where he says he "doesn't like magic in fantasy films." And yes, here too you can enumerate examples from the films but the point is there's a lot less of it on the whole. This show is much more self-consciously fantastical and it just doesn't work as well for it. Makes it geeky.

[Doo_liss 6,970]

Its funny, if they felt they needed to make up a "healing the world" reason for Forging the rings they had a better reason for Forging the rings right there!:

 

The war with Morgoth!

 

You know, the one that resulted in a sunk/destroyed Beleriand?

 

Make it so that the reason Forging of the rings is partially to aid in the "reconstruction" effort.

 

Sure it's still a bit magic-y, but at least it seems less fanfiction-y to me

[Chen G. 4,767]

More and more I'm realising that the making of the Rings is inherently unadaptable: I mean, it works as a montage in the films, but as the central premise for a show, or even a film for that matter... It's a creation myth, just like the creation of Mordor is a creation myth, and just like the creation of Mithril is a creation myth.

 

Not everything in a prequel is a creation myth in this sense: The Star Wars prequel trilogy, for example, doesn't really do creation myths, and neither does The Hobbit, or even Fantastic Beasts for that matter. But The Rings Power sure does, and the making of the Rings is just one such example. If you're doing it, it pretty much forces your hand into all the pitfalls that these writers went headlong into: you have to explain why they're making them, why rings, why those particular numbers of them, what they do, how does Sauron gain control voer them....all stuff that Tolkien (and Jackson) knew to leave vague because to provide any kind of "science" to the making of the Rings or to give them very manifest powers would be very reductive.

 

I'm wavering on whether depicting Sauron himself should also fall into that, as well. I mean, on the one hand its true that the devil (as opposed to God) HAD been depicted in drama with considerable success, e.g. the various renditions of Faust. Having said that, Jackson (who had the wherewithal to only depict Sauron as a spectre behind a suit of armour) points out:

 

Quote

"Depicting Sauron was difficult because you are depicting the undepictable. And, generally, when you're depicting the undepictable, you don't depict much at all. For an entity, whether good or bad, to be so unbelievably powerful that they're the most powerful thing, almost god-like in their status, then the second you try to put your finger on a design or a look or a definitive "this is who this is" its almost always going to dissapoint you: I mean, it just will. There's nothing more powerful than the imagination." 

[Nick1Ø66 6,076]

The more I think about it, the more I realise Amazon could have essentially made the same show without paying a dime to the Tolkien estate, given that 95% of the plot is fiction created by TV writers.

 

There’s no copyright on medieval fantasy settings. There's no copyright on elves, half-elves, dwarves, “halflings”, orcs, goblins, trolls, dragons,  wizards, dark lords, fell beasts and demons of the deep. There’s no copyright on magic items, including staves, swords and (especially) rings. There's no copyright on epic quests, creation myths and good being seduced by evil. If there were, Tolkien and his estate would have a lawsuit against most of the epic fantasy books published and produced post-1955, including Amazon’s own Wheel of Time.

So you change the names of the characters, tweak the plot a little, draw a new map, and Bob’s your uncle, you basically have the same show for free.
 

And given Amazon is also "adapting” a LOTR knockoff, Wheel of Time, (and there are countless fantasy books they could have bought for far cheaper than LOTR), what was the point of this whole thing, really? 

 

The only reason to pay that all that money to the Tolkien estate and then just make a generic fantasy series is so you can advertise the series as “Lord of the Rings” and associate yourself with the books. Or, more specifically, the films. But what has that gotten Amazon, really? Certainly not their Game of Thrones. Something that's clearly not a part of the film series, as much as Amazon, with smoke and mirrors, would like us to think. But it's not wholly its own thing either, is it? So in a way they're captive to the book, yet there's really very little in the book for them to work with. They sort of want it to be the films, but it's not, and they want it to be the book, but it can’t be.

 

We likely won't see any new episodes for a couple years, and I really do wonder what their game plan is going forward.

[Chen G. 4,767]

2 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

so you can advertise the series as “Lord of the Rings” and associate yourself with the books. Or, more specifically, the films. 

 

Yes, especially in Season One which had the "look, its back to New Zealand for us! Look, its Jed Brophy! Look, its Weta Workshop!" Season Two doesn't even have that. I was surprised to see that even the services of WetaFX were not required this time around.

[TheUlyssesian 2,590]

9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

More and more I'm realising that the making of the Rings is inherently unadaptable: I mean, it works as a montage in the films, but as the central premise for a show, or even a film for that matter... It's a creation myth, just like the creation of Mordor is a creation myth, and just like the creation of Mithril is a creation myth.

 

Not everything in a prequel is a creation myth in this sense: The Star Wars prequel trilogy, for example, doesn't really do creation myths, and neither does The Hobbit, or even Fantastic Beasts for that matter. But The Rings Power sure does, and the making of the Rings is just one such example. If you're doing it, it pretty much forces your hand into all the pitfalls that these writers went headlong into: you have to explain why they're making them, why rings, why those particular numbers of them, what they do, how does Sauron gain control voer them....all stuff that Tolkien (and Jackson) knew to leave vague because to provide any kind of "science" to the making of the Rings or to give them very manifest powers would be very reductive.

 

I'm wavering on whether depicting Sauron himself should also fall into that, as well. I mean, on the one hand its true that the devil (as opposed to God) HAD been depicted in drama with considerable success, e.g. the various renditions of Faust. Having said that, Jackson (who had the wherewithal to only depict Sauron as a spectre behind a suit of armour) points out:

 

 

This is a highly perceptive post. And ultimately it might be true. In essence that - the Simarilliom etc or anything preceding Hobbit/LOTR is difficult to make into long form narrative. The biggest proof? NOT EVEN TOLKEIN could do that. Not even TOLKEIN. After like 40-50 years of his life.

 

You could come away with the conclusion that first age/second age stuff are just instances of the most deeply imagined backstory we've ever had in fiction.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, I am also a screenwriter (currently just an aspiring writer or a spec writer) and I would like to think, surely, SURELY, there is a way to tell this story in long form. Sure it's challenging but maybe brilliant writers can accomplish it. 

 

I do have to acknowledge though that the forging of the rings presents particular problems. The LOTR series don't have many instances of overt explicit magic. And there is no getting around that when it comes to the rings.

 

For me a shattering failing of Rings of Power is that their attempt to explain how these inaminate objects have magic is staggeringly bad. The rationale they came up with is that they have mithril which comes film the simlarils and that is why these rings have magical abilities. That is so absurd and vague as to be a "damning non answer".

 

The right answer has to be along the lines of - Tolkein's elves have inherent magical abilities. The greater the elf, the greater the magic. And they are able to channel that into the rings and bind some of their magic and power into the rings. 

 

But how to show that? I can think of ways, but that would also make the show a hard fantasy with a lot of "magic". It could be done, perhaps even with some coherence, but it would be challenging and take a lot of careful writing to convincingly play to a large audience.

 

None of this though excuses the dumpster fire writing of the amazon series. It is to me utterly unambitious uncurious unintelligible trash. 

 

--

 

I guess my immediate solution is - elves can't be primary protagonists - they are too powerful too godlike. They work best as supporting characters. Or at least not as entry level protagonists. 

 

Thinking on my feet - I'd do it this way. 

 

(1) Cut all the harfoot and istari out.

 

(2) The primary protagonist would necessarily be a low man or woman. The humbler the protagonist is, the more can be told to them in exposition via montage voiceover etc.

 

(2) They would end up somehow in Numenor and be exposed to the world of high men - numenoreans. The story would then be primarily a Numenor show 60-80% of the time. Numenoreans would become the b primary protagonists.

 

Here exposition could establish Valinor etc and the entire history of the world.

 

(3) Some numenoreans and the a protagonists would have occasion to visit middle earth and visit with the elves and bring the elves in as secondary characters. We'd hear about their experiments with ring making but not directly see it. Thus elves would be secondary protagonists. We'd meet Annatar etc and all that jazz. We'd also see Kazam Dum. 

 

So this is the solution. 

Numenor is the A storyline.

Rings are the B storyline. 

 

This way there can be ellipsis and gaps in the B storyline and that isn't a problem.

 

The show has it backwards. They have made the rings the A storyline and Numenor the B storyline. 

 

The primary human interest lies in Numenor because it has the biggest stakes as it is the storyline that ends in the death of tens of millions.

 

So the show should have been The Lord Of The Rings: The Fall of Numenor. 

 

Basically Amazon made the wrong show in the wrong way - a double whammy.

[Doo_liss 6,970]

So basically, the story we have the most detail about, was the story they should of focused on, who could have thought.

[Chen G. 4,767]

8 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

So the show should have been The Lord Of The Rings: The Fall of Numenor. 

 

 

In theory, Amazon should have made two shows with overlapping production schedules:

 

A show about the making of the Rings. Numenore would be first introduced via its Middle-earth colony Lond Daer Enedh, and the animosity established there with the local Gwathuirim. Finally, we would also become introduced to the island kingdom, with Tar Telperien's dealings at court with Isilmo and Minastir. Eventually, all parties have to unite against Sauron.

 

A show about the Downfall of Numenore and the Last Alliance. The splitting into two shows would have allowed to maintain the sense of history by retaining the huge time differential between the two periods, as well as given more room to actually flesh-out Numenore (for example) by introduced Anduine, the Council, etc...

 

This is in theory, because I now realise just how unadaptable the Rings stuff really is. Not everything in Tolkien's expanded writings is like that: by and large, I would say the Great Tales of the Silmarillion would make cracking films, and I think there's stuff to be mined out of some of the Third Age events adduced by Tolkien in the appendices, e.g. the Angmar War or the Kinstrife. It's the more metaphysical, creation-myth type stuff that doesn't fly.

 

Oh, and all of this should have been done by HBO. They wouldn't have had to contort themselves into making it "sorta like the films but not really" the way Amazon feel compelled to do.

[TolkienSS 474]

To me the show, beside all the known flaws, is extra tiresome because of what you just know will happen as the story progresses.

And based on how clumsily these people handle their Jackson fetish, and how simple minded their dramatic touches are, you can almost certainly guess how the show will go on.

You just know there will be some long winded bullshit drama injected to make Elendil and Isildur's last stand "mean" more, and you know the same will happen with Elrond and Isildur because they are shown together in Fellowship of the Ring.

 

 

[Bellosh 3,967]

Go big or go home.

 

Either have the entire Sil rights or not.

 

A show based on 2 pages or whatever was bound to be divisive and mediocre.

 

$$$$ though.

[Bilbo 3,906]

5 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Go big or go home.

 

Either have the entire Sil rights or not.

 

A show based on 2 pages or whatever was bound to be divisive and mediocre.

 

$$$$ though.

Given how expensive this series is to make along with the rights purchase I’d love to know how much money this show is making them if at all.

 

There’s 0 merch (which to me shows there’s no interest) so the only money is through new subs. Which is something we’ll never know I guess. I watched Season 1 (and that’s all I’ll be watching) but I’ve had Prime for years. But I only have Prime for the free shipping. If they spun Prime Video out into its own thing I wouldn’t subscribe. 

[Holko 10,633]

14 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

There’s 0 merch

Hey now, there's new editions of Tolkien with random RoP posters as covers!

[Bilbo 3,906]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Hey now, there's new editions of Tolkien with random RoP posters as covers!

Even at that I’d imagine Amazon is paying Harper Collins for the tie in to promote the show.

[Chen G. 4,767]

5 hours ago, Bilbo said:

There’s 0 merch (which to me shows there’s no interest) so the only money is through new subs.

 

That's because of the wonky rights situation. This show is made by Amazon Prime Video on the strenght of a deal with the Tolkien Estate.

 

It's not made by New Line Cinema, ergo the "approximated" look of the whole thing...

But its also not made on the strength of a deal with Middle-earth Enterprises, who hold merchandising rights.

 

This show is a licensing disaster.

[TolkienSS 474]

My going theory is that Bezos fooled everyone and just puts out garbage to have tax write offs.

[Stark 579]

I don’t think that’s how tax write offs work

[Richard P 4,363]

8 hours ago, Bilbo said:

There’s 0 merch (which to me shows there’s no interest) so the only money is through new subs.

 

I've seen arguments that soundtrack releases are merch, or at least are done primarily as a promotional tool. (given how often they're scheduled to coincide with something)

 

But yeah, the only thing that comes up in an Amazon search is a DVD of the first season. Hoping that some people will think it a good Christmas/birthday present, probably.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

This show is a licensing disaster.

 

If it gets them the subs and viewing figures they want, they may not care.

 

They should've adapted some obscure book series no one's heard of - much easier.

[Nick1Ø66 6,076]

39 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

My going theory is that Bezos fooled everyone and just puts out garbage to have tax write offs.

 

35 minutes ago, Stark said:

I don’t think that’s how tax write offs work

 

You guys don't even know what a write-off is.

 

But they do. And they're the ones writing it off.

[Bilbo 3,906]

14 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

You guys don't even know what a write-off is.

 

But they do. And they're the ones writing it off.

That’s why I think it’s a money laundering thing. They’re funnelling money through this crap to save the money elsewhere.

[TheUlyssesian 2,590]

Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to competency and idiocy. They are just bad at making shows is the simplest explanation. And likely the correct one for that reason.

 

 

[A. A. Ron 2,040]

Both can be true. Also, I doubt people like Bezos consider themselves malicious. They just think it's standard practice for such huge businesses to move money around. You can't risk letting any it trickle down to the smallfolk after all. Mars will be for the trillionnaires of the future and a handful of service workers trying to eke out a living on small tips.

[Taikomochi 1,260]

All Media I personally Dislike is a Money-Laundering Scheme: A Guide to Writing High-Quality Critical Discussion on the Internet, pub. 2024

[Stark 579]

I think the cover story of “Bezos wanted a LOTR thing so he literally spared no expense” is probably true for once.

[Knight of Ren 1,107]

Finally got to watch the final episodes, and I thought I would share some thoughts of the season as a whole. Seeing how there are already several comments focusing on the negative aspects of the show, some of them which I agree with, I will try to highlight the best parts for me.

 

The absolute highlight this season for me has been the whole plot revolving around Sauron's deception. His presence in Eregion, his transformation into Annatar, the way he manipulated and deceived Celebrimbor and everyone around him till the very end was a joy to behold, and a huge part of that success goes to the actors. Charlie Vickers and Charles Edwards delivered astonishing performances, and their dialogues were for sure the best part of the whole show. I also really like the development of some other characters like Robert Aramayo's Elrond and Adar, which is one of the most interesting characters the show has created. I also enjoyed some parts of the Númenor plot, especially those which delved deeper into the Faithful ways, and the relationship between Elendil and Miriel. And altough I'm not the biggest fan of the Stranger/harfoot storyline, the bond between Nori and, should we say now, Gandalf, is really heartwarming. And I liked Bombadil's portrayal, even though brief and perhaps not as developed as it should've been.

 

The production value is astonishing, as is the visual aspect and the SFX, which put to shame many blockbusters premiered in cinemas. And as always, McCreary's music is one of the best scores out there, and the way his music enhances and elevates the scenes it goes with, many times helps some moments feel much more profound and emotional that they would have with a lesser score. That's not necessarily a critique against the writers, but a praise for the people who put him there and allowed him to do his thing, offering an epic, complex and multi-thematic musical tapestry that's just brilliant from start to end!

 

There are quite a few aspects of the show I don't really like, and even though I feel this season is quite better than the previous one, there's still room for improvement, but I hope they continue the show and are allowed to do their thing, even if it's not perfect.

[Bilbo 3,906]

15 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to competency and idiocy. They are just bad at making shows is the simplest explanation. And likely the correct one for that reason.

 

 

It’s bad because of the idiots and incompetent people making it. But what’s the justification to keep making it?

[Holko 10,633]

Just now, Bilbo said:

But what’s the justification to keep making it?

More of Bear's score.

[Chen G. 4,767]

12 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

But what’s the justification to keep making it?

 

The way I see it, given that by this point in the airing of Season One, cameras were rolling on the second season, while now the third season is still awaiting a greenlight (which is expected to come later this month) than we're looking at another 19+ month wait: I'm counting from when any buzz around rewatches, latecomers and retrospectives dies down, and marketing for the next season begins in earnest.

 

Combined with the rather ho-hum effect of the season, this long time interval is unlikely to get the show cancelled, but along with New Line Cinema setting up their own Tolkien productions, will render it artistically obsolete. The best solution therefore is to give it a cold shoulder.

[Bilbo 3,906]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

The way I see it, given that by this point in the airing of Season One, cameras were rolling on the second season, while now the third season is still awaiting a greenlight (which is expected to come later this month) than we're looking at another 19+ month wait: I'm counting from when any buzz around rewatches, latecomers and retrospectives dies down, and marketing for the next season begins in earnest.

 

Combined with the rather ho-hum effect of the season, this long time interval is unlikely to get the show cancelled, but along with New Line Cinema setting up their own Tolkien productions, will render it artistically obsolete. The best solution therefore is to give it a cold shoulder.

I watched season 1 and I think I engaged with this show too much. I won’t be watching anything else. 
 

not even bothering with the score that I found pretty so-so anyway

[Richard P 4,363]

For most viewers I suspect there is plenty of reason to continue making it, as long as the viewing figures are holding up. I've spoken to a few people in person about it and they liked it - most of the general public isn't as unforgiving and nitpicky as us. It's just a show - it's not killing your pet, as some posters' criticisms would suggest.

 

Plus, obviously, more Bear music.

[Chen G. 4,767]

3 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

as long as the viewing figures are holding up

 

That's it: it seems the season premiered to half the viewership of the first season, and the stats are believed to only dovetail further from there.

[Richard P 4,363]

Show-wise, I don't really care. Had its good bits, was mostly a bit rubbish.

 

But more score would be great.

[crocodile 8,707]

51 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Show-wise, I don't really care. Had its good bits, was mostly a bit rubbish.

 

But more score would be great.

Sort of how I feel. It's something I can watch and enjoy in a detached sort of a way while it's on but I don't really engage (a lot of The Hobbit us like that too). Season 2 was a bit better in some respects but it's far from prestige television.

 

But I really do like what Bear is doing. His enthusiasm for the world clearly outshines the show itself. And as we have now over 14 hours of music on all the albums, I can enjoy all his contributions on their own in any playlist configuration I choose and imagine better version of what's on screen. If anything, I hope he gets to do more.

 

I am also hoping for vol. 2 of CD box set but not expecting it to arrive until the year season 3 is out in a couple of years (assuming there is one).

 

Karol

[Richard P 4,363]

6 hours ago, crocodile said:

Sort of how I feel. It's something I can watch and enjoy in a detached sort of a way while it's on but I don't really engage (a lot of The Hobbit us like that too). Season 2 was a bit better in some respects but it's far from prestige television.

 

Yes, I enjoyed 2 more than 1, particularly the Celebrimbor and During scenes, but it's something that's just 'on', and not necessarily having your full attention. It's not in danger of winning any awards for direction or writing. I actually liked S2 more than the Hobbit sequels, which speaks more to how engaging I found the Hobbit movies more than RoP's quality.

[Jurassic Shark 13,659]

On 05/10/2024 at 9:33 AM, Chen G. said:

 

Oh that's nothing. Wait till you see how wasted Ciaran Hinds as Wizard-who-looks-like-Saruman-but-isn't is in this. Or how Galadriel gets stabbed clear through the chest and then falls a huge cliff but is okay because "Of course, Nenya tears have healing powers." which is to say nothing about how Tom Bombadil because a beat-by-beat recreation of the Yoda scenes from The Empire Strikes Back.

 

Are you saying this is the true SW sequel?

[TolkienSS 474]

It came to me just how much the showrunners hate Tolkien and what his theme of hope in the face of hopelessness stands for.

Whereas Sam's speech in Two Towers, that there is some good in this world worth fighting for, is trying to put that in words, this show literally ends with female Sam proclaiming "if it's broke, it stays broke, nobody will fix it. The end."

[Jurassic Shark 13,659]

Female Sam?

[crocodile 8,707]

39 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Female Sam?

The Harfoot character Poppy gives a speech towards the end of the final episode and that is set against a montage sequence showing different characters at that point in the story, sort of exactly how Sam does at the end of The Two Towers.

 

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 6,076]

13 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

It's just a show - it's not killing your pet, as some posters' criticisms would suggest.

 

Who suggested watching this show was like killing your pet? Not that it's not a good analogy. 

[TolkienSS 474]

31 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Who suggested watching this show was like killing your pet?

 

Well, my wife's family dog suddenly started to limp heavily while I was watching episode 8, so not sure about that.

[Bilbo 3,906]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Who suggested watching this show was like killing your pet?

A lot of people act like people only dislike this show because it breaks canon.

 

A lot of people actually don’t like this show because the acting is bad, the casting is bad, the costume are bad, the writing is bad, the directing is bad, etc, if all that stuff was good I wouldn’t care less about the canon. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,590]

10 hours ago, Bilbo said:

It’s bad because of the idiots and incompetent people making it. But what’s the justification to keep making it?

 

I said so sometime earlier. The sad reality is that we will all be watching Season 3 and beyond because it is the only Tolkien game in town unless the two new Jackson films, the first one directed by Serkis, come to pass.

 

They have new writers for Season 3; maybe they will learn from it. There's Bear's music to look forward to. 

 

I again want to be clear: my problems with the show are not lore-based, or rather, not only lore-based. They have to do with the writing, directing, and production quality, all of which I think are below the average standard of prestige TV today.

 

It's like dealing with a frustrating cousin—there are some good times, but it is generally tiresome. But there is no question of abandoning. 

 

My guess - it won't reach 5 seasons. They will be instructed to wrap it up in 4 seasons. Given how thin the material is, they do not have enough for another 24 hours I think. Think about it, Gandalf has not played a role in the story at all, AT ALL, and it has taken 16 hours to just establish his identity.