What is your least favorite and favorite edit to a cue/track composed by Williams?

[Brando 2,077]

I thought of this question tonight randomly and wanted to know what other people thought-because of film editing and last minute adjustments, sometimes John’s original music might not fit a specific scene(from the directors POV), be it length or how the music changes the mood of the scene, and the music editor steps in and makes cuts and edits to fit the directors desire. So, what is your least favorite(s) and favorite(s) film edit? And don’t just post the title of the film 

 

One of my least favorites would probably be “Ludlow’s End” from The Lost World. Tracking in “The Lost World” changes the mood of the scene from a horrific ending for Ludlow to a happy, victorious ending, which I suppose makes sense, but Spielberg should’ve asked for an insert/rewrite instead. 
 

One of my favorites is editing in “Duel of the Fates” over the lightsaber duel in The Phantom Menace *dodges several shoes*. For taking several different sections of DOTF and reediting it to the film several times, I feel like it fits well and compliments the lightsaber duel nicely.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,221]

Even with a lot of the terrible editing in the ST, I think "The Conveyor Belt" still takes the cake as the worst-edited musical sequence in a John Williams score.

 

I think for me the one edit that makes the most sense was replacing part of "The Probe Scanner" with "The Imperial March", and by extent probably the omission of the first half of the cue, as much as I love it on its own.

[BB-8 3,877]

The whole space battle edit in AOTC that obviously reused TPM cues springs to my mind as appearing especially random, like a cheap solution.

 

William Ross did a good job in rehashing and elaborating upon the major HP1 cues in HP2. Though does that qualify as an edit?

 

 

[Tom 5,021]

The end of the Yoda fight in AofC where Lucas edited the movie between the theatrical and home release. 

[enderdrag64 833]

A couple of the musical edits in the original Star Wars make sense to me and I think actually improve the cues - particularly The Little People, I've always thought that the full cue drags out too long (almost 40 seconds pass before any thematic material starts - compared to just 20 in the film version), and due to the staccato nature of it the edits are not very obvious at all. The only sort of obvious jump is the one that occurs upon the sandcrawler reveal, but even that edit is handled pretty smoothly in the film and it's only if you know something is missing that you notice anything off.

 

I also really like how ESB tracks in Yoda Raises the Ship between To Hyper-space and Finale, I think it works really well as transitionary material for the shots of the rebel fleet, and it's not super obvious that it's tracked

 

As for the worst edits I agree with some of the ones mentioned above already, I think I would add as well how ROTJ replaces the first half of Through the Flames with material from Losing a Hand from ESB, once you realize that that's what they did you can never unhear it, and the editing (especially the transition into the tracked material) is also not very good and super obvious

[Richard Penna 4,084]

TLW is full of them.

 

The film version of The Hunt from TLW. The original cue has a nice motif, but really doesn't fit the scene - SS was absolutely right to track in what he did.

 

The infamous Ripples where the music editor version is far, far superior to the version on LLL's set.

 

Also the finale, replacing those loud raptor statements with the TLW concert piece.

 

The worst is that horrific edit to Welcome to Jurassic Park when we see the birds out of the window. Absolutely no justification for it.

[Brando 2,077]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

The end of the Yoda fight in AofC where Lucas edited the movie between the theatrical and home release. 

This one for sure bugs me, and its not just a music edit, the 2 scenes are switched around and its kinda janky.

 

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

TLW is full of them.

 

The film version of The Hunt from TLW. The original cue has a nice motif, but really doesn't fit the scene - SS was absolutely right to track in what he did.

 

The infamous Ripples where the music editor version is far, far superior to the version on LLL's set.

 

Also the finale, replacing those loud raptor statements with the TLW concert piece.

 

I'm kinda surprised you mentioned these, because I agree with these edits too, particularly the first 2. Tracking in the delicious "Visitor in San Diego" and "Ripples" jungle percussion bits from those 2 was a great idea. I would pay money to see these 2 scenes how they were originally put together with the intended score, I think that would be very interesting, especially considering someone once said the original edit of the scene for "The Hunt" fit the music very good.

[Jay 39,153]

37 minutes ago, Brando said:

someone once said the original edit of the scene for "The Hunt" fit the music very good.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9yHK4tF5aX9NUxvNHZXX1hXUkk/view?resourcekey=0-KW0dcBNdyYMIo1JcUPjM8Q

[Tom 5,021]

Also AotC the reedit between theatrical and home when Anakin confesses to killing the raiders.  In fact, this one is even worse than the Yoda one.  

[Brando 2,077]

18 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Thanks, requested access for it!

[Bespin 8,673]

The Edit I hate the most is the Star Wars main Theme (on the '77 OST), that's the most horrible edit in the film music history. But it's also one of the most famous.

 

One of my favourite Edit, is the Star Wars Main Theme (from Empire Strikes Back) merged with The Mynock Cave cue (on the '80 OST). What was the purpose of merging these two cues together? I don't know! The weed must be good back then, but IT WORKS!

[Brando 2,077]

3 minutes ago, Tom said:

Also AotC the reedit between theatrical and home when Anakin confesses to killing the raiders.  In fact, this one is even worse than the Yoda one.  

There's a reedit here?

[Jay 39,153]

7 minutes ago, Brando said:

Thanks, requested access for it!

 

Fixed my post

[ThePenitentMan1 1,007]

11 minutes ago, Bespin said:

The Edit I hate the most is the Star Wars main Theme (on the '77 OST), that's the most horrible edit in the film music history. But it's also one of the most famous.

 

of the my favourite Edit, is the Empire Strikes Main Theme with the Mynock Cave cue (on the '80 OST). What's the purpose of merging these two cues together? I don't know! The weed must be good in these times, but IT WORKS!

I got the impression that this thread is mainly about film edits, not album edits, although I do agree to not liking the OST/concert version of Star Wars Main Title.  The only recording of that that I even like is the Kojian recording; at least he actually tried to make the transition sound seamless.

[The Great Gonzales 6,191]

Favorite: the edit in the Superman Main Title near the end.

[enderdrag64 833]

I can't believe I forgot this earlier, the tracking of "Entrance of the Monsters" into the Jedi Temple march scene in ROTS works so well it's almost hard to believe it wasn't written for it

[Bespin 8,673]

43 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

I got the impression that this thread is mainly about film edits, not album edits, although I do agree to not liking the OST/concert version of Star Wars Main Title.  The only recording of that that I even like is the Kojian recording; at least he actually tried to make the transition sound seamless.

 

Williams finally recorded a correct studio version of the Star Wars main Theme in 1980 too with the Boston Pops... I don't explain myself why he didn't recorded it in the original London sessions of the movie... anyway...

 

Ok, movie cue edits, well... that's another subject, sorry!

 

I think that speaking of John Williams, "The Phantom Menace" featured some very ugly edits of Williams's music.... and that's why we don't have an expanded set yet, because the difference between the recorded music and "What's" can be heard in the movie is almost two different things.

[Tom 5,021]

Yes, the "To be angry is to be human" line was not in the original, so they had to toy with it.    

 

[Brando 2,077]

15 minutes ago, Tom said:

Yes, the "To be angry is to be human" line was not in the original, so they had to toy with it.    

 

Ohhh. I knew the Emperor's Theme is looped there, didn't know that line wasn't in the theatrical cut.

[Tom 5,021]

3 hours ago, Brando said:

Ohhh. I knew the Emperor's Theme is looped there, didn't know that line wasn't in the theatrical cut.

Yeah, a bunch of people complained that Padme would not fall for a sociopath after his confession.  So, they added to be angry is to be human and, his response of being better than this (thus he is not a monster because he wants to be a person who doesn't slaughter alot of people).  

[karelm 3,013]

Not sure if this is what you had in mind, but I hate how Lucas edited in the slow imperial march when Vader says, "Take me to my shuttle" and leaves Cloud City.  It was literally the laziest needle drop in all Star Wars during one of the most intense sequences of the entire saga.  To me, it makes the finest film of the entire saga, ESB, unwatchable.

[Brando 2,077]

1 hour ago, karelm said:

Not sure if this is what you had in mind, but I hate how Lucas edited in the slow imperial march when Vader says, "Take me to my shuttle" and leaves Cloud City.  It was literally the laziest needle drop in all Star Wars during one of the most intense sequences of the entire saga.  To me, it makes the finest film of the entire saga, ESB, unwatchable.

Yes, I was asking mainly for film edits just to see what other people thought, but some album edits aren't the best, unless you're Thor.

4 hours ago, Tom said:

Yeah, a bunch of people complained that Padme would not fall for a sociopath after his confession.  So, they added to be angry is to be human and, his response of being better than this (thus he is not a monster because he wants to be a person who doesn't slaughter alot of people).  

Did they overdub her line? It might be just the video, but it looks like her lips aren't synced with the dialogue.

7 hours ago, Jay said:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9yHK4tF5aX9NUxvNHZXX1hXUkk/view?resourcekey=0-KW0dcBNdyYMIo1JcUPjM8Q

Just got around to listening and watching this, very very interesting. I wonder how accurate this was before it was potentially re-edited, because Ludlow clapping his hands and laughing at Tembo's Elvis joke kinda makes sense, whereas in the movie he does it seemingly out of enjoyment.

[GerateWohl 4,971]

I don't like Yoda's Theme edited in at the droid factory fight in Attack of the Clones as it is totally unrelated to anything happening on screen.

[Cameron007 60]

5 hours ago, karelm said:

Not sure if this is what you had in mind, but I hate how Lucas edited in the slow imperial march when Vader says, "Take me to my shuttle" and leaves Cloud City.  It was literally the laziest needle drop in all Star Wars during one of the most intense sequences of the entire saga.  To me, it makes the finest film of the entire saga, ESB, unwatchable.

 

Ugh, that was such a hideous edit....

 

In HP1, I find it weird that part of "The Library Scene" was overlayed with "The Chess Board".

 

On the other hand, "The Return Home" being tracked into "The Ways of the Force" was immensely satisfying to me.

[oierem 173]

17 hours ago, Tom said:

Yeah, a bunch of people complained that Padme would not fall for a sociopath after his confession.  So, they added to be angry is to be human and, his response of being better than this (thus he is not a monster because he wants to be a person who doesn't slaughter alot of people).  

Actually, it was added for the digital release of the film, in May 2002. 

[Tom 5,021]

5 hours ago, oierem said:

Actually, it was added for the digital release of the film, in May 2002. 

Now that you mention that, I do remember.  however, I don't think it was added in May.  I think it was added a good month or so into the release (though I could be wrong).  

[Archive Collection 218]

I love the way JW combined several cues into "Finn's Confession" on the 'Force Awakens' soundtrack album. The transitions between each cue are seamless and create a really nice listening experience.

 

On the topic of TFA, I also like the way that "The Return Home" aka Burning Homestead from the original Star Wars was tracked into "The Ways of the Force" in the film. It would have been nice if it was recorded properly (not tracked in post) so we could have a clean recording without any dodgy crossfading.

 

I'm struggling to think of many cases of editing I hate. I understand that – most of the time – when a music edit occurs, it's out of necessity. But here are some instances that I don't like so much...

 

• The film version of "The Speeder Chase" from The Rise of Skywalker. A messy combination of several other cues, lacking any cohesion that an actual musical composition would provide. Of course, it's very listenable - it's JW's music - but it's incredibly weak in comparison to Williams' original cue.
• The "film versions" of the Main Title from Star Wars (1977) and Superman. Both of them have strange pitch issues which are incredibly distracting and take away from the music.
• The transition between "Main Title" and the next cue in the soundtrack album of 'Revenge of the Sith' (I'm not talking the infamous war drums from the film edit). Williams was intending to do something different with the end of the MT cue, but because the two cues haven't been overlayed properly, the effect is jarring. When Mike M. is allowed to restore the SW scores in 2077, I'm sure it'll be an easy fix.
• The transition between "Ewok Celebration" and the End Credits in 'Return of the Jedi'. Both the film and soundtrack album. Both mixes sound a little off, especially the way the choir continues over the first bar of the end credits in the soundtrack. Same as above, an easy fix for Mike M.

[Brando 2,077]

2 hours ago, Archive Collection said:

 

• The transition between "Main Title" and the next cue in the soundtrack album of 'Revenge of the Sith' (I'm not talking the infamous war drums from the film edit). Williams was intending to do something different with the end of the MT cue, but because the two cues haven't been overlayed properly, the effect is jarring. When Mike M. is allowed to restore the SW scores in 2077, I'm sure it'll be an easy fix.

Oh wow. I’m not used to the OST because I have the film edit in my collection, but man that transition is a little rough. Strange that the MT’s don’t have a cleaner ending.

[Chewy 2,495]

Is it really how Williams intended it to sound like in the movie? Those "war drums" work much better.

[Holko 10,073]

The film version works great with holding out a little tension until Obi and Ani arrive and the Force theme enters in a perfect "well, this is it, the last SW" mode. The OST version's random fanfares and flourishes before it take away all that impact.

[Datameister 2,241]

17 hours ago, Chewy said:

Is it really how Williams intended it to sound like in the movie? Those "war drums" work much better.

 

Yeah, the OST transition is really how it was supposed to be in the film. The idea of going big and loud in that moment where all the other films went small and quiet is interesting. The two performances just don't quite work together. I wish JW had started that cue ("Boys Into Battle") with a re-recorded lead-in from the main title, allowing the orchestra to really crescendo properly into the new material. Even just starting with one or two sweetener bars could have helped—maybe a swell of bass drum, tam-tam, and brass.

 

But again, I do like the idea. It certainly feels more "Williams" to me than the drum overdub heard in the film, though I suppose it's effective in its own way too.

[artguy360 1,889]

This is not my absolute worst JW OST edit, but the abrupt entrance of the victory music in Farewell in TROS OST right after the heavy emotional music for Ben's death comes in much too quickly. Really robs that moment of its intended resonance. It's just two different ideas put back to back without any breathing room. 

[Jay 39,153]

Yea, that one is a head-scratcher

[Brando 2,077]

43 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

This is not my absolute worst JW OST edit, but the abrupt entrance of the victory music in Farewell in TROS OST right after the heavy emotional music for Ben's death comes in much too quickly. Really robs that moment of its intended resonance. It's just two different ideas put back to back without any breathing room. 

Is that just an OST edit or is that how it plays in the film?