New Podcast Series: The Complete John Williams Television Music Walkthrough

[80sFan 118]

This is great (as the previous parts). I really enjoyed learning about a TV show I had never heard of before, several I had heard of but never heard the music, as well as Gilligan's Island (brings back memories hearing it as a kid).

 

Nice work!

[Erik Woods 742]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

Thanks for the comments, Gurkensalat!

 

I've wanted to offer the podcast on more traditional platforms (like Apple or Spotify) since the beginning in 2013, but unfortunately, there are rights issues involved, especially when I use full musical clips from soundtrack recordings rather than brief, 30-second snippets that would pass as free 'quotes'. So although I sometimes label it a podcast, it is technically a webcast that is only available as streaming, not as downloadable content. Since I don't have the money to pay for rights, and since I want to play full clips, that's how it turned out. Maybe some day, I'll make revised editions where I cut down all the clips to quote size, hence making them eligible for traditional podcast platforms. We'll see!

It doesn't matter if you play one second or three minutes of a clip; the moment you play music without authorization, you are technically violating copyright law. The same is true for streaming content, however playing a piece of music for 30 seconds or less does not constitute fair use. Now, fair use laws may be different in your country, so there may be 30 seconds or less fair use rules there, but once you offer the show outside of Norway, you must follow the standards of all of the countries to whom you are offering your show.

 

-Erik-

[Jurassic Shark 14,491]

5 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

It doesn't matter if you play one second or three minutes of a clip; the moment you play music without authorization, you are technically violating copyright law. The same is true for streaming content, however playing a piece of music for 30 seconds or less does not constitute fair use. Now, fair use laws may be different in your country, so there may be 30 seconds or less fair use rules there, but once you offer the show outside of Norway, you must follow the standards of all of the countries to whom you are offering your show.

 

-Erik-

 

How do you pay copyright for all the music you showcase in your own shows?

[Erik Woods 742]

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

How do you pay copyright for all the music you showcase in your own shows?

I pay a yearly podcast licensing fee to SOCAN. I also have agreements with the labels to play music from their catalogues just as long as I promote the label on the show when I play their stuff. Throughout my years of doing my show and podcasting, I've only had one take down notice and that was for a show that's not on my network but I do host on my server.

My friend (who I share server space with) and I got a notice from a Bollywood label that asked for us to remove a show that contained music from their album. We did, and that was it. Could it have been worse? Probably, but we were professional about it and nothing else came from it.

And if any other label, composer or whomever wants us to take something down, I will do so immediately, but since 2013, which is how long I've been streaming the show and making it available as a podcast, I've only had the one incident... and it wasn't even my show.  

 

-Erik-

[Thor 9,194]

This is veering off-topic, but it's something that always comes up when people ask why my show isn't on mainstream podcast platforms.

 

In Norway, quotation rights aren't tied to seconds, specifically, but rather more vague directions about the point you want to make with the quote. So I think of 30 seconds more as an "average" for that purpose. When I researched this way back when, I found out that Norwegian copyright law does not differentiate between the podcast being exclusively for Norwegian listeners or for foreign countries. That's hard to do, anyway, with things existing online. The quotation rights are tied to where the podcast is being produced.

 

Now I'll be the first to admit I'm definitely in murky waters with my full clips, even if I only offer it as streaming, and not download, i.e. webcast, not podcast. But should there be an 'incident', streaming is always better than download, and by keeping it off the big platforms, I restrict exposure somewhat.

 

I also have standing deals with Norwegian music organizations, and with the individual composers about playing their music. Same for new, international promos. The problem is for older recordings, of course. So far, no one has contacted me about taking things down. If they do, I will comply (that's one of the reasons for why I've started keeping my work files, so I can easily edit the shows without them losing their sound quality, i.e. by editing an existing mp3).

[Jay 41,617]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

If they do, I will comply (that's one of the reasons for why I've started keeping my work files, so I can easily edit the shows without them losing their sound quality, i.e. by editing an existing mp3).

 

That's why you've started keeping your raw files?

 

What did you do in the past!?

[Thor 9,194]

I deleted them. Which I obviously regret.

[Jay 41,617]

What was your logic behind that decision?

[Thor 9,194]

To save space, because the files were/are huge. Not so much a problem anymore, with various backup solutions.

[Jay 41,617]

Ah

[Jurassic Shark 14,491]

1 hour ago, Erik Woods said:

I pay a yearly podcast licensing fee to SOCAN.

 

Does this make your podcasts legal outside the USA?

[Erik Woods 742]

43 minutes ago, Thor said:

Now I'll be the first to admit I'm definitely in murky waters with my full clips, even if I only offer it as streaming, and not download, i.e. webcast, not podcast. But should there be an 'incident', streaming is always better than download, and by keeping it off the big platforms, I restrict exposure somewhat.

 

Just to let you know that when someone "streams" your show, they are still downloading it into a cache on their computer/device so technically they are still downloading the show. Having said that, that stream of data doesn't stay on your device after the stream is done. But even if you download or stream, someone is still accessing that audio, which are governed by copyright rules/laws. Your show, as does mind, falls under a non-interactive license. "Non-interactive music streaming differs from on-demand, or interactive, streaming because it allows users to play music but does not allow them to select the song that plays next."  

Anyway, as you said, this is getting a bit off topic, but if you think you are safe just offering a stream instead of a download, you are gravely mistaken. Then again, someone coming after you is highly unlikely but there is still a chance and I hope that never happens.

 

-Erik-

6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Does this make your podcasts legal outside the USA?

Technically, no, at least I don't think so. If I wanted to make my show fully legal around the world, I would have to get licenses for every county I offer the show to... I think. I have looked into it but not as much as I did when I got my SOCAN license. But I do know that SOCAN has agreements with other international copyright and performing rights organizations around the world. 

This is something that I will be actively looking into some time in the future. 

 

-Erik-

[Thor 9,194]

Making it a streaming webcast, rather than a downloadable podcast, was the recommendation from NOPA and TONO (akin to Canadian SOCAN), which I met during those early years to talk about the nuts and bolts of this thing. I'm definitely not in the 'clear' and not 'safe', as they also made sure to point out -- especially for older, non-Norwegian recordings -- but it gives me a slightly better position from which to negotiate should a situation occur. Of course, anyone with a bit of tech savvy could easily find ways to download my webcast anyway, but that's difficult to control.

[Erik Woods 742]

53 minutes ago, Thor said:

To save space, because the files were/are huge. Not so much a problem anymore, with various backup solutions.

Wow!  That's nuts. Ever since I started recording my show to minidisc from the board at C101.5FM, I made sure to keep all my original and RAW files. I know hard drive space was a bit more expensive back then, but I made sure to pay whatever I could to make sure I had a digital library of all my shows... just in case.

 

-Erik-

1 minute ago, Thor said:

Making it a streaming webcast, rather than a downloadable podcast, was the recommendation from NOPA and TONO (akin to Canadian SOCAN), which I met during those early years to talk about the nuts and bolts of this thing. I'm definitely not in the 'clear' and not 'safe', as they also made sure to point out -- especially for older, non-Norwegian recordings -- but it gives me a better position from which to negotiate should a situation occur. Of course, anyone with a bit of tech savvy could easily find ways to download my webcast anyway, but that's difficult to control.

At least you've done your due diligence. A lot of podcasters don't.

 

-Erik-

[Thor 9,194]

I first got a 1TB external harddrive in the mid 2010s, after previously only having backed up certain things on various USB drives. So silly, in retrospect.

[Bryant Burnette 747]

16 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

I prefer not to have the phone with me. I generally do not like using a smartphone and accept it only grudgingly as a basis station for the Watch. It is just an iPhone SE from 2016 which has been handed down from my son to my daughter and now to me, since the front camera got milky, the main button does not work any more and the battery is weak.  I know that I am a rare case, but I am just happier with my iPad plus Watch. 

 

"I call it Horse Refusing to Drink."

[Gurkensalat 364]

Just because I do not want to live on coffee to go (iPhone) all the time and instead prefer to sit down at home for a larger drink (iPad)? :-)

 

On Topic: started part 3 today and discovered that a complete soundtrack of a TV episode from the Eleventh Hour is commercially available! The Podcast is really informative.

[Jay 41,617]

Yes, it came out 13 years ago and is still in print!

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/cds/detail.cfm/CDID/460/TV-Omnibus-Volume-One-1962-1976/

[Gurkensalat 364]

Yes, of course YOU know about that, but I didn’t. And perhaps many others here. So I thought I would mention it.

[Jay 41,617]

Right, I didn't say that you did anything wrong!

 

I was providing a link for anyone who wants to check it out!

[MrJosh 951]

Finally posting my thoughts on Part III before I listen to Part IV!

 

Thanks again @Thor, wonderful to hear all of this broken down so clearly. 

 

Ben Casey....I really like the sorrowful writing in the clips, I feel like this could be a fun gem if ever it were unearthed and released. 

 

Interesting scenario with Wild Country where his theme was used by another composer due to the pilot of the show being taken from an Alcoa Premiere episode Williams scored. And then a similar situation where music from Wagon Train was reused for The Virginian. I never knew about these things, very interesting to learn. 

 

I bought that cool TV Omnibus set from FSM when it came out, firstly just to have The Eleventh Hour, but then I realized I loved all of that fun TV music. I do really like the noir-like theme in The Bronze Locust. In fact, I sometimes just start humming it, it's a memorable theme (to me at least). 

 

That stuff around the Kraft shows is complicated...it was fun hearing you explain it all, but I had to listen to that section twice to see if I fully understood. Not any fault of yours, you explain it really well...it's just confusing!

 

To make sure I got it right:

Kraft Mystery Theatre (1961-1963)

-Williams writes Season 3 theme, and 3 episode scores. 

-Also, there are 3 episodes from Alcoa Premiere being reused in this series, which have Williams music.

Kraft Suspense Theatre (1963-1964)

-Williams writes Main Theme, 17 episode scores for Season 1, and 2 episode scores for Season 2. 

 

Did I get that right? If not, then I will go drink more espresso and give it another listen!

 

The main theme for Kraft Suspense Theatre isn't one of my favorites, I can't put my finger on why I like it less than some of the other main titles he did for TV. It sounds kind of like the brass part is emulating a car horn honking or something. It's dramatic though, I'll give it that. 

 

Ah, so now I finally understand that Sergeant Ryker was created from the first two episodes of Kraft Suspense Theatre. Interesting. 

 

Did Williams score the movie version separately, or does the Sergeant Ryker film just contain the same music and recording as the first two Kraft Suspense episodes?

 

 

Some things I really enjoyed:

I really like the opening music in Sergeant Ryker. 

 

S01E04 A Hero For Our Times - I really like the sweet string writing and then the saxophone that comes in, romantic in style and the major chord that this clip ends on made me smile. Great clip!

 

S01E05 Are There Any More Out There Like You? - Yeah, those brassy bits do sound like Daddy-O. I like it!

 

S01E06 One Step Down - I really like the tenseness of the music in these clips, reminds me of Bernard Herrmann in that 3rd clip. 

 

S01E09 The Hunt - I really like the dissonant muted brass in the atonal section. Cool!

 

S01E10 The Name of the Game - I really dig the piano improv going on here! Super fun. 

 

S01E27 The Robrioz Ring - I really enjoyed the nice string writing. 

 

 

Lastly, it's really interesting how the Ryker theme is a thread throughout this series, showing up in different episodes. I wonder why and how that came about, or what Williams was thinking about when reusing the theme in different episodes. 

 

Really great stuff! I will listen to Part IV soon...I'm excited because I grew up as a kid watching Gilligan's Island compilations on VHS tapes. I think after Star Wars, Gilligan's Island was the next thing I ever heard from John Williams.

 

[Thor 9,194]

Thank you for your insightful comments (as always), Josh!

 

14 hours ago, MrJosh said:

Interesting scenario with Wild Country where his theme was used by another composer due to the pilot of the show being taken from an Alcoa Premiere episode Williams scored. And then a similar situation where music from Wagon Train was reused for The Virginian. I never knew about these things, very interesting to learn. 

 

Just to be clear: I can't say with 100% certainty that it's another composer -- like series composer Morton Stevens -- rearranging Williams' "Second Chance" theme for WILD COUNTRY, or if it's the exact same theme and recording, pasted in. I think the latter is the most likely, actually. It's certainly not the slow version that was recorded specifically for the THEMES TO REMEMBER album; that is its own thing.

 

14 hours ago, MrJosh said:

To make sure I got it right:

Kraft Mystery Theatre (1961-1963)

-Williams writes Season 3 theme, and 3 episode scores. 

-Also, there are 3 episodes from Alcoa Premiere being reused in this series, which have Williams music.

Kraft Suspense Theatre (1963-1964)

-Williams writes Main Theme, 17 episode scores for Season 1, and 2 episode scores for Season 2. 

 

Did I get that right? If not, then I will go drink more espresso and give it another listen!

 

Yes, that's right! Well done in following the sequence of events there. Of course, some of this information may be amended in the future, but that's status quo.

 

14 hours ago, MrJosh said:

Did Williams score the movie version separately, or does the Sergeant Ryker film just contain the same music and recording as the first two Kraft Suspense episodes?

 

How deeply involved Williams was with the film version of RYKER, or if it was merely a music supervisor reshuffling and editing the material from the double-episode/third episode for the film version, is unknown at the present time. What I can say for sure is that I didn't hear the exact same version of the RYKER film theme anywhere in the episode "The End of the World, Baby". So it could possibly be a rerecording, or a version of the theme that did not appear in the episode, but that was nonetheless recorded for it. It's all very complex and mysterious.

 

By the way, part 5 is due on Monday.

[MrJosh 951]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Just to be clear: I can't say with 100% certainty that it's another composer -- like series composer Morton Stevens -- rearranging Williams' "Second Chance" theme for WILD COUNTRY, or if it's the exact same theme and recording, pasted in. I think the latter is the most likely, actually. It's certainly not the slow version that was recorded specifically for the THEMES TO REMEMBER album; that is its own thing.

ok, got it. that makes sense!

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

How deeply involved Williams was with the film version of RYKER, or if it was merely a music supervisor reshuffling and editing the material from the double-episode/third episode for the film version, is unknown at the present time. What I can say for sure is that I didn't hear the exact same version of the RYKER film theme anywhere in the episode "The End of the World, Baby". So it could possibly be a rerecording, or a version of the theme that did not appear in the episode, but that was nonetheless recorded for it. It's all very complex and mysterious.

Thanks for answering my extra questions!

 

On a side-note, I'm surprised that these older TV series haven't been worked on to restore and release, because as your commentary points out, there are some cool appearances by certain actors and actresses that I would think should be preserved and appreciated, such as Fred Astaire in Alcoa Premiere.

 

I sure hope these series can be watched and appreciated again in the future, and not having to be hunted down in poor quality sources.

 

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

By the way, part 5 is due on Monday.

wow! I need to catch up! You're on a roll.

[GerateWohl 5,717]

Haven't finished part four yet. But I am on it.

[Thor 9,194]

34 minutes ago, MrJosh said:

On a side-note, I'm surprised that these older TV series haven't been worked on to restore and release, because as your commentary points out, there are some cool appearances by certain actors and actresses that I would think should be preserved and appreciated, such as Fred Astaire in Alcoa Premiere.

 

I sure hope these series can be watched and appreciated again in the future, and not having to be hunted down in poor quality sources.

 

Oh, you and me both! Why these anthology shows have such poor track record of getting released on video formats, is something I've been curious about too -- and my knowledge of old US television is limited. Obviously, most shows in the 40s and 50s (and, I guess, early 60s?) were entirely broadcast "live", and as such don't really exist anymore. Or shows in-between, like PLAYHOUSE 90, which had the early seasons broadcast live, and the latter shot on video or film, AFAIK. So it's easier to find episodes of the latter than the former. Then there's the whole issue of anthology shows having so many different cast and crew members attached, often big stars, so it must be a rights nightmare to clear. I'd welcome input from people more savvy about old US television than I am (hey, Jon Burlingame, are you reading this?).

[GerateWohl 5,717]

That is an interesting point. I mean, I grew up watching a lot of silent movie and short films like Harold Lloyd, The Little Rascals, Laurel and Hardy, Buster Keaton, Charles Chaplin or the old black and white western series like Zorro and stuff like that form the 30s.

So more or less being connected with film history and following the development of the medium for the last 50 years.

But I think, a lot of young people missed that connection and so not necesarily have such an historical interest. The medium is not so young anymore. And why deal with such old content that does not really match today's viewing habbits?

After I watched with my boys Peter Jackson's King Kong I tried to convince them to watch the original with me. No chance.

[Thor 9,194]

On 24/03/2023 at 7:00 PM, GerateWohl said:

That is an interesting point. I mean, I grew up watching a lot of silent movie and short films like Harold Lloyd, The Little Rascals, Laurel and Hardy, Buster Keaton, Charles Chaplin or the old black and white western series like Zorro and stuff like that form the 30s.

So more or less being connected with film history and following the development of the medium for the last 50 years.

But I think, a lot of young people missed that connection and so not necesarily have such an historical interest. The medium is not so young anymore. And why deal with such old content that does not really match today's viewing habbits?

After I watched with my boys Peter Jackson's King Kong I tried to convince them to watch the original with me. No chance.

 

You open a whole other, interesting topic there, Geratewohl, that is probably better suited for another thread. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Personally, I've been interested in all of film since its inception, across all styles and epochs and trends. Silent films, French New Wave, Italian neoralism, German expressionism, Indian cinema, Hollywood blockbusters, you name it. Same for film music, really. While the scores I discovered in my formative years will always be ingrained in my spine, and as such very close to my heart, I still have an insatiable curiousity for everything that came before, and everything new that comes out. Maybe because I grew up in a more "curated" period, where there wasn't instant access to information and works like there is today. In the 80s, I was happy to see almost anything shown on our single Norwegian TV channel, even if it was, say, an old b/w Swedish film! So for younger people today, the tolerance level for "ancient" stuff may have waned somewhat with all the options out there, I don't know.

 

I will freely admit my pathway into old US television music came through John Williams' work. Otherwise, my knowledge of 50s and 60s US television music is rudimentary. But as I mentioned in the most recent episode, I did have some access in my early years. THE TIME TUNNEL was shown in syndication on Super Channel in the 80s, which we had access to. Old DR. WHO too (I think the Tom Baker years), or the PLANET OF THE APES series from the 70s. Some I liked, some I didn't. I think it's useful to have a "hook" of some kind that leads you into these things.

[GerateWohl 5,717]

It is probably a little bit like the discussions we frequently have about film music. If I like today's scores of Ludwig Görransson or Christophe Beck, why deal with scores from the silver or the golden age or even with the romantic and classical music from which that derived? 

 

By the way, I watched the time tunnel as Well in TV in the early 80s. I am Not sure, If I would today.

[Thor 9,194]

Part 5 out now!

 

Our journey through John Williams‘ obscure television catalogue continues with this fifth part. In this episode, we wrap up his 60s period as a freelancer, encompassing television shows, unaired pilots and TV movies: Convoy, And Baby Makes Three, Who Goes There?, Nightwatch, Wayne and Shuster Take An Affectionate Look At…, The Tammy Grimes Show, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, CBS Playhouse and Heidi Kehrt Heim.

 

http://celluloidtunes.no/celluloid-tunes-80-the-complete-john-williams-television-music-walkthrough-part-5-29th-international-edition/

 

 

[Thor 9,194]

By the way, I haven't even finished this series (the next episode, part 6, will be the last), and I'm already discovering new things and omissions. So I'll probably make a "Redux" version once the series is completed, with these omissions and additions put in -- even if I said I wouldn't.

[Jurassic Shark 14,491]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

By the way, I haven't even finished this series (the next episode, part 6, will be the last), and I'm already discovering new things and omissions. So I'll probably make a "Redux" version once the series is completed, with these omissions and additions put in -- even if I said I wouldn't.

 

Nice. I sugges to also collect the additions in its own bonus episode, so we won't need to listen to everything again.

[Junion 111]

This is a wonderful project that has certainly taken a ton of time and effort. It really gives a fantastic insight into John Williams' TV scores of his early career years.

 

Finally, I have found time to listen to the first episode and am very impressed with your background knowledge, quality and presentation of the webcast. Great work:-)

 

My musical highlights are:

General Electric Theater-Journal of Hope (S09E02).
I really like the beautiful flute and string melodies. BTW, this episode featuring actor Leslie Nielsen was filmed in mid-August 1960 and
thus John Williams composed the music around the time when his youngest son Joseph was born.

 

M Squad
'The Discovery' is a marvelous jazzy track by John Williams where he plays the piano himself.

 

Wagon Train
The 3 tracks 'Jumpin Jack Rabbit' (from The Kittel Angel Story (S02E14) as well as 'Golden West' and 'Tomorrow' (from The Jenny Tannen Story (S02E38)) are absolute catchy tunes and fortunately were released on the music album for the series. In episode 'The Jenny Tannen Story' actress Ann Blyth sings the two original songs 'Golden West' and 'Tomorrow' with a lot of passion and it is good to know that she is still with us at the age of 94.

 

Another remarks:

Bachelor Father

Actually, the first episode scored by John Williams aired February 01, 1959 (not March 01, 1959). It was 'Bentley and The Kleptomaniac' (S02E11).

 

Playhouse 90-The Right Hand Man (S02E28)

This episode was a live one that aired in March, 1958. Like you, I hope it was recorded and will be unearthed one day.
In the same Playhouse 90 season, for example, the live television drama "A Town Has Turned To Dust" featuring a young William Shatner was broadcast and taped on June 19th, 1958 (S02E38). As this one is available on DVD I'm hopeful that a recording of 'The Right Hand Man' also exists!

 

Alright. I'm already looking forward to listening to the second episode very soon :-)

[Thor 9,194]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Nice. I sugges to also collect the additions in its own bonus episode, so we won't need to listen to everything again.

 

They will be edited versions of the same episodes, but I'll make posts here and elsewhere where I lay out the changes and additions (and the time codes), for re-listening convenience. The only bonus episode I hope to make eventually, is an episode dedicated solely to an episode-by-episode walkthrough of his CHECKMATE work.

 

24 minutes ago, Junion said:

Another remarks:

Bachelor Father

Actually, the first episode scored by John Williams aired February 01, 1959 (not March 01, 1959). It was 'Bentley and The Kleptomaniac' (S02E11).

 

Indeed. I actually rewatched that episode today, in an effort to create a suite of BACHELOR FATHER episode music (beyond the theme, which is all we play in the episode) that will also be part of the "redux" version (a little bit like I did with GILLIGAN'S ISLAND), and I noticed the erroneous date. Furthermore, I also watched a season 1 episode ("Bentley and the Talent Contest"), airing as early as January 5, 1958, which is credited to Williams. That was frustrating, because season 1 is generally considered to contain only library music, and Williams wasn't involved until season 2. It's probably because the YouTube video is from a syndicated version that used 'standardized' end credits posters that are not reflective of the actual music in the episode. But I've posted a query about it on FSM today, just in case Jeff Eldridge or others have any input.

 

Thanks for the comments, Junion!

[Junion 111]

16 minutes ago, Thor said:

Indeed. I actually rewatched that episode today, in an effort to create a suite of BACHELOR FATHER episode music (beyond the theme, which is all we play in the episode) that will also be part of the "redux" version (a little bit like I did with GILLIGAN'S ISLAND), and I noticed the erroneous date. Furthermore, I also watched a season 1 episode ("Bentley and the Talent Contest"), airing as early as January 5, 1958, which is credited to Williams. That was frustrating, because season 1 is generally considered to contain only library music, and Williams wasn't involved until season 2. It's probably because the YouTube video is from a syndicated version that used 'standardized' end credits posters that are not reflective of the actual music in the episode. But I've posted a query about it on FSM today, just in case Jeff Eldridge or others have any input.

 

 

'Bentley and the Talent Contest' (S01E09) is not credited to John Williams! Do you mean this video here? That is not 'Bentley and the Talent Contest' but 'Bentley, The Stage Mother' (S03E28) directed by Norman Abbott which aired April 07, 1960. John Williams scored this episode as all ones of season 3!

 

 

[Thor 9,194]

1 hour ago, Junion said:

 

'Bentley and the Talent Contest' (S01E09) is not credited to John Williams! Do you mean this video here? That is not 'Bentley and the Talent Contest' but 'Bentley, The Stage Mother' (S03E28) directed by Norman Abbott which aired April 07, 1960. John Williams scored this episode as all ones of season 3!

 

Yes, that video as well as this one. Both credit Williams and both list them as S01E09, "Bentley and the Talent Contest". But reading the synopsis of the actual episode, they're both wrong, of course. I must learn not to trust YouTube uploaders!

[Jurassic Shark 14,491]

54 minutes ago, Thor said:

They will be edited versions of the same episodes, but I'll make posts here and elsewhere where I lay out the changes and additions (and the time codes), for re-listening convenience. The only bonus episode I hope to make eventually, is an episode dedicated solely to an episode-by-episode walkthrough of his CHECKMATE work.

 

You're so difficult.

 

[Thor 9,194]

Difficult for me, easy for you as a listener.

[Jurassic Shark 14,491]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

Difficult for me, easy for you as a listener.

 

I know!

[Yavar Moradi 3,360]

My highlights from Part 3 after listening:

 

1. Ben Casey "A Little Fun to Match the Sorrow" -- a really wonderful, emotionally complex theme

2. Kraft Suspense Theater "Are There Any More Out There Like You?" -- that action cue is pretty damn AWESOME. I would LOVE to get a clean version of it some day.

3. Kraft Suspense Theater "One Step Down" -- another gorgeous emotionally complex string theme, reminding me of his Ben Casey score.

4. Kraft Suspense Theater "The Robrioz Ring" -- it was great to get this extended 7 minute suite and hear more development in one of these Williams TV scores.

Honorable mentions: "The Hunt" (doesn't sound at all Goldsmithian to me, and would really stand out in Planet of the Apes, but still good stuff!); "Four Into Zero" was also pretty fun.

 

 

And from Part 4:

 

1. Chrysler Theater's "White Eyes, Red Snow" -- GREAT stuff; would love to hear the full score in music-only form.

 

2. Inside the Movie Kingdom -- All four clips of that were really cool, with nice variety and Williams's voice shines through quite strongly. I'd love to check out the video itself someday.

 

My favorite thing that you played on the episode was honestly probably The Ghostbreaker main theme, but I've already known and loved that for many years thanks to FSM. I also do love both Lost in Space themes (but especially the second, which Netflix wisely adapted for use in their reboot).

Looking forward to hearing Part 5 next...

 

Yavar

[Thor 9,194]

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

4. Kraft Suspense Theater "The Robrioz Ring" -- it was great to get this extended 7 minute suite and hear more development in one of these Williams TV scores.

 

Absolutely. It's one of those rare episodes where we're fortunate to have long sequences with no dialogue and only marginal sound effects.

 

 

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Honorable mentions: "The Hunt" (doesn't sound at all Goldsmithian to me, and would really stand out in Planet of the Apes, but still good stuff!); "Four Into Zero" was also pretty fun.

 

The bits slightly reminiscent of POTA are probably more noticeable in some of the hunt sequences not covered in the clips (due to them having too prominent sound effects). I do agree that those wild piano explorations, for example, are an avantgarde sound all on its own, and don't really have much in common with Goldsmith's score.

[MrJosh 951]

I listened to Part 4 @Thor. I'm going to be sad when these are done, it's been great fun to explore and discover this music!

 

Bob Hope Presents the Chrysler Theatre

That's a beautiful main theme. Really nice and varied. I hadn't heard this before and I'd love to hear this in better quality someday I hope. 

 

The parallel moving chords in S01E06 One Day in the Life of..., remind me of Star Wars a little bit. 

 

Strange that the Ryker theme shows up in this series too. It's like the John Williams TV Cinematic Universe Theme. 

 

S01E20 White Snow, Red Ice has such a super fun opening cue. I really enjoy the humorous brass underneath the soaring strings line. I enjoyed the timpani and brass bits in clip no. 2, and I think I hear that the similar flourish motif from the 1st clip returns for the 3rd clip. 

 

Interesting that the remaining seasons are a bit mysterious still, that we don't know for sure how many episodes Williams wrote music for nor have they been identified. Still more interesting things to unearth someday!

 

Gilligan's Island

Huh, wow so it never clicked in my mind that Williams only wrote the pilot episode and then his music was tracked into other episodes. 

 

I mentioned previously that when I was a kid, we had some Gilligan's Island episodes (including the pilot) on VHS tapes that I would watch over and over, and so after Star Wars, it was the next thing from John Williams that I became familiar with, though not knowing as a child that it was the same composer. I didn't become fascinated with movie scores until my teens. 

 

The clips of Gilligan's Island really make me smile. I really love the silly, quirky, chromatically moving theme that has jazz/ swing qualities to it. I'd definitely enjoy a release of all Williams' music from the pilot to appear perhaps on some TV compilation in the future. 

 

Inside the Movie Kingdom

Whoa...crazy to learn about and hear music from something that is basically a new discovery. 

 

Some interesting 'bouncing' brass parts and woodwind runs...then a cool march which reminds me very much of the Ferris Wheel March from Not With My Wife You Don't!

 

Clip 3 has some nice romantic strings...crazy to think how this music has been heard by very few people and the story of how you acquired it is really interesting too. What a cool find!

 

I don't have too much to say about The Ghostbreaker and Lost in Space. I enjoy them both and have the CD/ sets. I like The Ghostbreaker, it's a fun score. 

 

I prefer the Season 3 theme over Season 1 for Lost in Space, and my favorite episode score is the same as yours, The Hungry Sea. 

 

Thanks again for sharing this great information and nice clips through this podcast!

[Thor 9,194]

Wonderful comments, as always, Mr. Josh. Looking forward to what you have to say about episode 5 and the clips therein, when you get to that. Episode 6, the last episode, is due in a couple of weeks. And then after that, there will be two more iterations of this series. First the aforementioned redux version of all the episodes, with a few additions, and then -- down the line -- a 2-hour special covering all 40 episodes that Williams did for CHECKMATE. A lot of work will go into that (I blame Yavar!). So it will go on for a bit more. 

[MrJosh 951]

On 16/04/2023 at 8:48 AM, Thor said:

Episode 6, the last episode, is due in a couple of weeks. And then after that, there will be two more iterations of this series. First the aforementioned redux version of all the episodes, with a few additions, and then -- down the line -- a 2-hour special covering all 40 episodes that Williams did for CHECKMATE. A lot of work will go into that (I blame Yavar!). So it will go on for a bit more. 

I thank @Yavar Moradi very much for inspiring you to go through all of Checkmate!  I look forward to it all. 

 

I listened to Episode 5 during the week and took some notes as I went along as usual. Thank you again, another great episode. This one had some real unknowns to me and I found it fascinating to learn about them. 

 

Convoy

I didn't know anything about this one. Really interesting to me that the only episode that has surfaced is one of Williams' two scored episodes. Wow, I'd love to hear the at-least-one episode that Waxman did! Great Main Title by Bernard Herrmann, I really liked it! I'd love to find out more about this show and who else composed music for the other episodes. I do hope the whole series surfaces some day. 

 

As for John Williams' score to the Episode 5 from the series, I enjoyed hearing the dramatic string parts playing over the sustained chords in the horns and then the classic militaristic percussion with punchy brass on top. He does this kind of thing with the staccato brass punches and snares underneath in other scores, though I can't quite point out which ones...maybe in Midway, and with comical flavor in John Goldfarb. 

 

I hear some parallel moving chords in the horns in this clip. This is cool to hear here and in another clip I recall from Episode 4 of this podcast series. I used to think that Williams 'started' up a tendency for parallel chord movement in Star Wars, being inspired by Holst's The Planets which has a lot of that in Mars, but now I see that he was already doing that as part of his musical language. 

 

I had a similar thought during the clip of the 'love theme' as you called it; hearing the strings carry the love theme with some repeating/ pulsing brass chords underneath is cool because he composes in a similar manner on some quotes of Marion's theme in Raiders and in Across the Stars from ATOC. 

 

Anyway, it's cool to hear some of the Williams-isms in this earlier TV work, because it gives me a more whole understanding of his compositional tendencies which, though things evolved over time in different ways, certain ideas were in his compositional toolkit since very early on. 

 

And Baby Makes Three

Wow this theme is really quite cute and I hear some really quirky comedy writing. I know some folks don't care for these kind of scores, but I love them. I'd really love for this one to be released someday. 

 

Who Goes There?

I have never heard of this one. I see what you mean, another catchy tune here! Also, I was surprised to hear Williams quoting the song 'tiptoe through the tulips' in the woodwinds in these clips. I wonder what that is corresponding to onscreen and what meaning it has in the show itself. 

 

Nightwatch

I remember listening to this from the FSM CD late one winter night. Always is exciting to listen to something from JW that is completely new to me, and that's what I recall about hearing it that night. I enjoy this moody, darker score. 

 

Wayne and Shuster...

Wow, also never had heard of this before! How interesting. What an interesting concept for a show. I like the mystery around this...we don't know how many episodes Williams was involved with but at least two (?)

 

It has quite a quirky theme. I'm going to have to re-listen to it tomorrow as it didn't stick with me very much. 

 

The Tammy Grimes Show

Interesting failure story about what happened to this show. 

 

My goodness the Main Title is funny, though I like it as well, even the corny 'yeah yeah yeah' singing going on. It gives me 'Guide for the Married Man vibes' and I am actually a fan of that score, so I like this too. 

 

The Time Tunnel

I knew...but had forgotten that the Williams episode was about the Titanic. Haha, funny how you mention that now we can compare Williams' Titanic efforts with Horner's and Barry's. 

 

I do very much enjoy the quirky ticking Main Title theme. I think it's a really creative Main Title...I would love to have heard his thought process in deciding what to compose when he constructed it. 

 

The harp/vibraphone + swirly flute stuff is always so evocative of the flashback/dream sequence/time travel feel. 

 

Land of the Giants

I also find this Main Title to be really creative. This one gets stuck in my head at times and the French horn trills make me chuckle. 

 

I think I find the scores to Land of the Giants and Lost in Space less accessible to The Time Tunnel. I am going to go back and listen through all 3 of these soon and refresh my perspective. 

 

CBS Playhouse

Wow, another fascinating mystery here. a 90 minute episode which is not able to be located currently. 

 

With the episode being 90 minutes, I wonder how much score there is. From the description of the episode, I imagine it is a drama and probably doesn't have any or much action music, but who knows what interesting music there could be here. I hope it can be located someday soon. 

 

Heidi

I won't say much about Heidi except I've always loved this one. A lot of beautiful writing throughout and the main theme puts a smile on my face. 

 

I may have some additional thoughts on to post later on about this one as there is a lot here I found really interesting and fun to learn about. 

 

Thanks again @Thor for putting these together. 

[Thor 9,194]

Part 6 out now!

 

So here it is — the final part of our John Williams television walkthrough, which brings us up to this very year. In this episode, we cover Jane Eyre, The Screaming Woman, Evening at Pops, NBC News, Amazing Stories, “The Olympic Spirit” (for NBC’s coverage of the 1988 Seoul Olympics), Masterpiece Theatre, NBC Sunday Night Football, Great Performances, Obi-Wan Kenobi and “Of Grit and Glory” (for the ESPN College Football Championship).

 

https://celluloidtunes.no/celluloid-tunes-81-the-complete-john-williams-television-music-walkthrough-part-6-30th-international-edition/

 

[Yavar Moradi 3,360]

Looking forward to listening! Here are my belated two unreleased highlights from Part 5:

 

The sole Convoy score you presented seems really excellent, more meaty and substantial/dramatic than most of the rest of this podcast ep, which I appreciated. I really hope the other episode he scored shows up, and that there is a soundtrack release for this brief series’ music some day!

 

Of the remainder, mostly lighter stuff, the Tammy Grimes show theme stood out to me as a fun slice of history.

 

Yavar

[Bryant Burnette 747]

That was a great listen!  I'd somehow missed the fact that the NBC Sunday Night Football music consisted of four different compositions, not just "Wide Receiver."  So I got to hear new(-to-me) John Williams music today!  Which has been true of each episode in this series, now that I think about it.  This has been a real goldmine!  Thanks, Thor, for doing it!

[Yavar Moradi 3,360]

Already finished my listen to Part 6 and I gotta say... there's not a single piece in this bunch that isn't pretty stellar. Everyone here already knows that Jane Eyre is my #1 favorite Williams score I suspect, but here's my appearance on Jeff Eldridge's podcast The Baton a few years ago where I talk about why, and we even play a cue or two from the film itself which is unreleased on album (like E.T., the soundtrack album was half full of tracks arranged specifically for it rather than being taken from the film):
https://thebatonpodcast.podbean.com/e/episode-25-jane-eyre/

The Screaming Woman is so frustrating. It's short but honestly so, so good. I absolutely love this kind of Williams writing and I really hope that something turns up for it someday in the Universal vaults. It really does feel like a tease at a larger work somehow, and I'd love to hear Williams develop this theme if anything else was recorded, but even if this is all that survives of this thematic material it would still be a gem to get on album in good sound.

Literally ALL of the other TV themes were excellent (his Amazing Stories work is so good but it almost pales in comparison to some of these other pieces... the NBC pieces were particularly awesome, even though I'd heard them before.)

I'm excited to hear that you might go episode-by-episode on not only Checkmate but M Squad too, Thor! I very much look forward to your traversal of Williams's work on those series because your thorough traversal of Kraft and other series was a real highlight of this six part podcast miniseries. 

Yavar

[MrJosh 951]

Excited for Part 6, when I can sit down and give it proper attention. Great thumbnail too, it is somehow entertaining to me to see Jane Eyre next to Obi-Wan but there it is. 

 

 

[Bryant Burnette 747]

I bought the DVD set of Checkmate last year and have yet to actually watch any of it.  It's nice to have rainy-day options like that, though.

[MrJosh 951]

@Thor I finally listened to the Part 6 of this series. Another great episode and so many fun things in here. 

 

I certainly share the love for Jane Eyre. Particularly the Restoration melody. That one sticks with me and comes into my head once in a while. 

 

The Screaming Woman. Wow, now this is such a cool cue and very mysterious background which I did not know about. This is very intriguing. It would be quite a surprise if it turned out to be something from another earlier series perhaps, but then like you said, why did they happen to credit Williams in the credits? 

 

It's a really cool cue, it makes me think of Dracula a bit. 

 

KCET - It's cool that you actually reached out to an archivist to try and get some info! 

 

NBC News - The four pieces are all so cool! I've heard them before but it has been a while since I listened, and I'm mostly familiar with The Mission of course. Pulse of Events has kind of a Witches of Eastwick sound to it to me, and I love the rapid-fire brass in the Scherzo for Today. 

 

Amazing Stories is really fun. I remember I had just tracked down the re-recording CD myself when not long after, Intrada announced their expansion(s). The Mission is fun, but my favorite is Ghost Train which I find more charming. As a side note, I'm also glad the Intrada set included some bumpers and the Amblin Logos. 

 

The NBC Sunday Night Football music is fun, and I got a kick out of the drumset rocking out in the 3rd one. 

 

 

 

Thank you for putting the whole thing together, it's been very educational and fun to explore. It's helped demystify a lot of the earlier works, though I know there are still a number of unanswered questions and unknowns too. 

 

One thing I wanted to make sure I understood from earlier on in the series is Alcoa Premiere Theatre:

 

Did Williams write all episodes or is that unknown? I need to go back and listen to that earlier episode but I cannot until later tonight. In my notes, I wrote down the following:

 

2 seasons, 28 episodes each. Season 2 has one episode he does not score. 

 

But then I also wrote down that he scored all episodes, so I must have something wrong. 

 

 

On 04/05/2023 at 1:03 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Everyone here already knows that Jane Eyre is my #1 favorite Williams score I suspect, but here's my appearance on Jeff Eldridge's podcast The Baton a few years ago where I talk about why, and we even play a cue or two from the film itself which is unreleased on album (like E.T., the soundtrack album was half full of tracks arranged specifically for it rather than being taken from the film):
https://thebatonpodcast.podbean.com/e/episode-25-jane-eyre/

 

I'll check this out next, thanks for reminding me, Yavar