Popular Post Knight of Ren 787 Posted October 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2022 Hi everyone, with the recent release of the Tales of the Jedi show, I thought it could be a great idea to have a thread where we can discuss all the different projects Dave Filoni and Kevin Kiner have created together. I'm referring to all the different animated shows, like The Clone Wars, Rebels or The Bad Batch. I think it would be a great idea to have a thread where we can talk about all this different shows, with especial focus on the music composed by Kevin Kiner and his team. I think there is no other thread like this so it could be fan. For starters, I will share my (partial) analysis on the different themes that appear through The Clone Wars show, both Williams' themes, and the brand-new ideas composed by Kiner. The music was done by Kevin Kiner, with an array of co-composers, who provided different cues for the dozens of episodes that comprised the 7 seasons of the show. Apart from Kevin Kiner we have people like Takeshi Furukawa, David Glen Russell, Matthew St. Laurent, Sean Kiner, Dean Kiner, etc. All of them have been an essential part of the music of the show, and certainly deserve recognition as well. During most of the show, they weren’t able to afford a proper orchestra, so they played around with samples, together with some live instruments, sometimes trying to pay homage to Williams’ sound, but others times deviating into their own style. Fortunately, for the last season, as well as some episodes here and there through the previous seasons, they were finally able to have a proper orchestra to record their score, resulting in a much more interesting sound. This will maybe make some of the listeners to not be able to fully engage with it since the sound quality is very different from one cue to the other. This is also due to the fact that there have been only a couple of official releases, one for the movie, one for the first seasons, and then three separate albums for the three narrative arcs of the final season. This means that the rest of the music has mostly been released by the composers themselves via soundcloud, their own websites and similar places, deriving in worse sound quality than what we would have with a proper official release. With all this in mind, I still think there are some great moments of music hidden in here, and it’s definitely worth exploring for fans of the music of Star Wars, so withouth further ado, I will get right into it, analyzing the different themes that have been presented and developed through the seasons (some of them even carrying over to other shows like Rebels or the Bad Batch). I also have to note that the thematic connections are not always clear, and sometimes a theme that’s supposed to represent something, then gets re-purposed in other episode. This likely happens because of the huge amount of music they had to put out for the entire show, which led to some sections being reutilized, tracked or things like that. Let’s get into it! John Williams' Themes that appear in The Clone Wars Spoiler Main Theme & Rebel Fanfare The Main Theme is not really featured at all in the underscore of the show, with the exception of the re-arrangement of the theme during the “Main Titles and A Galaxy Divided”, and then in a similar arrangemet during the “End Credits”. In a very similar fashion to what happens to the Main Theme, the Rebel Fanfare is used as an interlude to that melody in the “End Credits”. Both themes are here used to connect the show to the main saga, but apart from that they’re not really present within the underscore of the show. The Force Theme This theme on the other hand is the previously established identity with the most screen time. There are a couple of new variations on the melody which become new themes within the show (and which will be analyzed later), but also the theme itself appears quite a lot. Standard statements of the theme play in “Jedi Eulogy”, “Yoda Explores Dagobah” or “Yoda’s Journey Ends”, but in the Mortis arc it gets extensive development, together with a variation on the idea especifically tied to Mortis. Listen to the interplay of this idea with the Force Theme at 2:25 of “Father’s Sacrifice”, or at 0:53 of “Anakin Dreams of Shmi”. The theme turns quite emotional at the opening of “Ahsoka Leaves”. There is a melody associated with the Clones and the Republic that is derived from this theme, which is also featured in some action sequences with stunning results. Some of my favorites are the development of these two ideas at 1:52 of “Buzz Droids”, the noble statements of the theme at 2:15 and 2:51 of “Breaking for a Shuttle”, or the percussive, militaristic statements at 0:51 and 1:58 of “Race You to the Surface”, which sounds like a clear homage to the great action variations that opened Episode 3, in the Battle Over Coruscant. After that, the theme turns dark and sinister, like in “Aftermath in Mandalore” or “It’s All of Us”, reflecting the tragic fate of the Jedi Order after the execution of the Order 66 Battle of the Heroes / Imperial March / The Emperor This epic battle theme from Episode 3 gets one brief reference during one of the best arcs of the show, the Mortis Arc. Here, in one of the scenes, Anakin has a vision of his future, and right at the start of “Anakin Sees His Future”, Matthew St. Laurent decided to include a menacing, slow rendition on brass of the theme, signifying his tragic fate. The iconic Imperial March gets a couple of note-worthy statements through the show, especially in scenes where Anakin’s darker side is explored, like when it plays in “Anakin Sees His Future”, at 1:13, or at 0:17 of “You Have Become a Rival” Although Darth Sidious is not really that present in the show, at least not in his dark side alter ego, the Emperor theme has a couple of fantastic appearances, and one of the highlights is definitely his confrontation against Maul and his brother, Savage. Listen to it at 0:33 of “You Have Become a Rival” or at 1:06 of “Maul and Savage Duel Palpatine” Yoda / Qui-Gon Jin / Han & Leia Even though his character is quite present through many of the episodes, the mystical and heartwarming theme Williams crafted for the character is not really present until the season 6 arc, where we follow Yoda on a journey of self-discovery, and connection with the force. Here David Glen Russell and Kevin Kiner allowed the theme to be featured a couple of times, especially at the outset of ”Yoda Explores Dagobah”, with extended presentations intermingled with the Force Theme later on in that cue, and then at the end of “Yoda’s Journey Ends”, at 1:16 The almost forgotten (but fantastic!) theme for Qui-Gon Jin gets a token appearance during Yoda’s Journey arc in season 6, when he talks to his force ghost, as he explores Dagobah and its mysteries. It plays at 0:24 of “Yoda Explores Dagobah” The opening of "Yoda's Journey Ends" oddly references Han & Leia's Theme. It doesn't really make any sense, since none of the characters are present, and havent' even been introduced at this point in the story since they hadn't been born yet! I think the theme is used here just because it fits the scene and offers a lovely mood, but nothing more. Anakin and Padme During most of their scenes together in the show, these two characters have their own new ideas underscoring their forbidden romance, but in Season 7, for a brief scene of them talking through a hologram, Kevin Kiner decided to finally bring back the Across the Stars theme, which you can listen to at 1:11 of “Anakin and Padme” on winds, before their own theme takes over for the rest of the cue Funeral / Dark Side / Anakin’s Dark Deeds The “Victory and Death” track, which opened episode of Season 7, featured a variation on the funeral march from the prequels, strongly ressembling that theme, but never quite playing it the same, even including a reference to something that resembles the Force theme, but then is twisted around to become darker and more sinister. Then, we have what sounds like an intentional reference to the Darth Plaeguis music, with the low male choir at the opening of “The Throne”, intermingling with Maul’s theme from the show. I think this scene was revealed to be happening at the same time as Sidious’ seduction, and that’s why it strongly resembles that chilling Williams’ cue. The “Anakin’s Dark Deeds” cue is one of the few cues which hasn’t been released on any format, but as the Order 66 unravels onscreen, from Ahsoka’s POV, they decided to play an emotional variation on the last half of the track from Revenge of the Sith (aka “It Can’t Be” from the RS) NEW THEMES IN THE CLONE WARS But obviously, it’s not all Williams’ work, and Kiner and co. composed a great catalogue of ideas relating to many different aspects, characters and locations over the seven seasons. It’s worth noting that since most of the music is unreleased, or only released in low quality, some of the themes have smaller representation on the released tracks, and even some of them are almost completely missing (like Savage’s killer theme!), so with that in mind, let’s get right into the themes and motifs of Clone Wars (some of which, as I mentioned, carried over to other shows later on, like Rebels or even The Mandalorian). So far, I have only done the analysis of three important categories, but soon I will update this with the analysis of other themes like the Death Watch, Obi-Wan & Satine, Anakin & Padme or Ventress & the Night Sisters. But the first in line is... Ahsoka Tano Spoiler I feel like the first theme to be mentioned should be Ahsoka’s Theme, not because it’s the one played the most, but because it’s the theme that certainly makes the bigger emotional impact through the show, even carrying over to the characters live action appearance in The Mandalorian (and I hope that whoever scores the Ahsoka show is able to develop this idea into the score, since I think it’s now strongly associated with her). This idea is present right from the very beginning, in the movie that launched the series, and it’s one of the last things we hear in the final moments of season 7, clearly making it the most important new theme of the show. And even if it does not appear all the times the character is on-screen, the theme manages to make such a big emotional impact in the moments that matter, like when she leaves the jedi order at the end of season 5, or during her heroic actions during the Siege of Mandalore, in season 7. We get hints of the theme in the last part of “Meet Ahsoka”, before the theme is properly introduced at 0:54 of “General Loathsom / Ahsoka” where it plays in its traditional bass flute setting, before growing to a soaring statement of the theme. A similar arrangement can be heard at 1:00 of “Fight to the End” The theme appears here and there through the show, but for her dramatic arc at the end of season 5 it’s where the theme really returns with some great new interesting variations. “Fugitive in the Sewers” opens with a ttragic rendition of the theme, before it gets arranged for an action sequence in “Anakin Wants Her Alive”, or a cool heroic statement at 0:36 of “Lightsaber Duel on Level 1315”. It turns somber at 0:16 of “Ahsoka is Captured”, and tragic at 3:12 of “Jedi Council Hearing” and at 0:42 of “Entering the Chambers”, before the theme’s emotional closure at the end of the last episode of Season 5. “Ahsoka’s Decision” and “Ahsoka Leaves” underscore the dramatic aftermath of this narrative arc, and Kevin Kiner supported these sad moments with gorgeous renditions of her theme, as well as the presentation of a melody that pops out in these two cues as a sort of Farewell Theme. “Ahsoka’s Decision” opens with a gentle rendition of Ahsoka’s Theme, before some tragic passages lead to an emotional rendition of the Farewell Theme at 1:12. “Ahsoka Leaves” opens with a solemn complete rendition of Williams’ Force Theme, with a beautiful interlude at 0:42, before the Farewell Theme appears one last time in a similarly emotional rendition, at 1:18. This gorgeous melody for cello closes the episode, before a heartbreaking rendering of Ahsoka’s Theme plays on bass flute, at 1:50 of that cue, to send off her story in a beautiful but extremely sad way. As well know, she makes a comeback in Season 7. Her return is scored beautifully with her theme at the opening of “Ahsoka is Back”, before the theme returns to its former glory in “Ahsoka and the 501st”. Listen how at 0:58, the theme is warm and welcoming, and slowly develops with beautiful variations of the theme. The theme gets an emotional rendition at the opening of “Anakin Sees Ahsoka Leave” before the theme becomes bold and heroic in the fantastic action cue that is “Race You to the Surface”, at 1:14, and gets a couple more action arrangements like choral rendition at 2:26 of “Ahsoka vs Maul”, or the bombastic statement of the theme at 2:05 of “Break for the Shuttle”. After the dramatic events that are underscored by this fantastic set-piece, it’s time to say farewell to the fallen, and the composers here crafted a heartbreaking piece that accompanies Ahsoka, Rex and other clone survivors while they’re “Burying the Dead”, an emotional cue which is build around synths, reverbered piano, and a beautiful yet fleeting rendition of Ahsoka’s Theme at 1:41, which finishes off the series, and serves as a somber and tragic farewell to The Clone Wars. I also want to mention some sort of secondary idea associated with her, that plays in scenes relating to her relationship with Anakin, that also seems to relate to Luminara and her Padawan, Barriss, so perhaps it’s just a sort of Master-Padawan Theme. It’s not used that much, but gets a couple of different variations in some episodes. It opens “Jedi Master Luminara” with a gentle choral version, before an emotional statemetn of the theme plays at 1:27 of “Elevating the Rocks”. The theme has also a couple of action variants, like the one at 1:43 of “Luminara and Barriss”, or at 0:14 of “Everyone Fighting”. This Padawan theme concludes its emotional journey at 1:15 of “Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Argue”, with a warm and emotional rendition. The Mortis Arc Spoiler The Mortis Arc has a couple of ideas exclusive to it that I want to mention, before I dive into other more prominent themes. One of them is the Mortis Theme, which as I mentioned aboves, it’s just a variation on William’s Force Theme, created by Kiner & co. to underscore this beautiful and emotional arc. At 0:53 of “Anakin Dreams of Shmi”, both themes are intertwined, to help the connection be established, before the Mortis Theme plays on its own at 1:31. It turns dramatic in the action variant at 0:29 of “Everyone Fighting”. The next two cues, which offer the emotional climax of this arc, also feature the second idea, which is a sort of variation on the Padawan Theme. These two cues are “Hamlet-Like Tragedy” and “Father’s Sacrifice”. The first one opens with the variation on the Padawan Theme, before at 0:41 we get a choral and orchestral statement of the Mortis Theme, and even a reference to Ahsoka’s Theme, before we get another Padawan Theme variation near the end of the cue. And then, “Father’s Sacrifice”, offers extended treatment to the Mortis Theme. Around the two minute mark we get a brief variation on the Padawan Theme, before the Force Theme enters the scene, then joined by the Mortis Theme, at 2:54 where it achieves its most prominent statement, with choir and orchestra offering a dramatic and fulfilling statement of the theme to send off this fantastic arc. The Clones & The Republic Spoiler And finally, we get to the Clones, which are the heart and soul of the whole show, as the extended length of the series allowed us to know and understand better how they are, their different personalities, their relationships with the Jedi, and then fear and lament the tragic outcome of the Clone Wars. They have a main melodic idea that pops through the series, and it’s a representation of their noble side. We can hear the complete presentation of the theme during the first half of “The Clones”, before it gets reprised in action mode at 2:50 of “Buzz Droids”. The theme appears here and there during the show, and gets prominent appearances during the last season, in both the Bad Batch arc and in the Siege of Mandalore. It becomes nostalgic on trumpet at the beginning of “Misplaced Hope”, playing again on strings at 1:14 of that track, and appears again at 0:42 of “Finest Troopers”, before closing the track with the conjunction of the Clones Theme, and the Bad Batch Theme, a march-like theme that especifically represents this groups of clones, and that will become more prominent in their own show. In The Clone Wars, that theme appears a couple of times in their episodes, being especially noteworthy the suite arrangement of their theme in “Bad Batch Theme”. The Clones Theme appears a couple of times during the Siege of Mandalore, to offer an emotional farewell to the clones and their themes. At 0:20 of “Aftermath in Mandalore” is reflective and solemn, before one final twisted action statement at 0:40 of “Y-Wing”. In the Siege of Mandalore we also hear thematic closure to a couple of different ideas that have also been related to the clones and the republic right from the beginning. There are two heroic variants of themes already introduced, that are used in some action scenes through the show. One of them derivates from The Force Theme and the other derivates from The Clones Theme. The Republic Variation on the Force Theme is mostly used to represent a victory for the good guys. At 2:12 of “Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Argue”, the theme builds from the first notes to offer a complete statement of this theme. There are a couple of action arrangements of the theme through the show, and “Buzz Droids” contains one of the best ones at 1:27. “Padme and Ahsoka” offers its noble arrangement at 1:27, before we get a couple of rousing renditions of the theme at 0:12 and 1:16 of “General Loathsom / Ahsoka”. This track opens with the heroic variation on the Clone Theme, and it’s all over the tracks that cover the Battle of Christophsis from the movie. This idea is used as a sort of heroic fanfare during action sequences, and is derived from the Clones Theme, sometimes intermingling with it or the Republic Theme. “Buzz Droids” contains a couple of heroic blasts of the theme, at 0:22 and you can hear similar statements of the theme at 1:26 of “Obi-Wan’s Negotiation” and 0:40 of “Meet Ahsoka”. It appears prominently in “Battle of Christophsis” intermingling with an especific idea for the Battle of Christophsis, that you can hear all over the track right from the start. All of this ideas appear through the show, and most of them get reprised in other shows, like Rebels or the Bad Batch, as the clones appear again on screen, or as some events of the Clone Wars are referred to in those shows. Anakin and Padme Spoiler Apart from briefly referencing William’s Across the Stars, Kiner & co. composed a beautiful enw theme for Anakin and Padme’s relationship, that does not play a lot, but gets featured prominently in some of their scenes together. It has two different sections, both played in full in “Anakin and Padme”. The B section opens the cue, before the main A section plays in a lovely statement at 0:40 of that cue, developing in full for the rest of the track. In the “Padme” track, we can hear some more gorgeous statements of both sections, with the B section playing at 0:12, before building to a beautiful rendition of their main melody at 0:56 until the end. Their theme is referenced here and there beautifully, with a lovely rendition of the A secton at 1:32 of “Anakin and Padme”, after we hear the Across the Starts theme. Also, I want to note a small repeating motif for Padme that pops up mostly through the movie and the first seasons. This melody usually played on oboe appears at 0:40 of “Jedi Council” and is reprised on a slower variation at 0:15 of “Padme and Ahsoka” Obi-Wan and Satine Spoiler This couple has one of my favorite themes in the entire show, and the team of composers really went out of their way to create a memorable and emotional idea that perfectly represents this couple and their relationship until the Duchess’ tragic demise. The theme has a sort of introductory motif, built around two notes, that then develops into their proper main theme. The motif gets hinted in a dark variation at 0:53 of “Obi-Wan and Satine Meet” before it’s properly introduced at the outset of “Obi-Wan and Satine”. That track presents both ideas in full, and develops them extensively to great effect. I particularly love the emotional statement of the main melody at 2:15. The theme appears in some of their scenes, like at the subtle references of the theme at 1:51 of “The Mandalorians of Death Watch”, and recieves an emotional send off in the cue “Darth Maul Breaks Obi-Wan”. At 0:52 we hear a distressed appearance of the two-note motif, before their theme burst with tragic beauty at 1:15. After the Duchess’ death, the theme almost completely disappears. The Death Watch Spoiler This mysterious group of Mandalorians recieves a sort of march-like theme, which resembles the Imperial March a bit in its chord progression. It’s featured quite a lot in the story arcs where they appear, but sadly, it’s does not appear a lot in the released tracks. It appears in a standard variation at 0:13 of “Obi-Wan and Satine Meet”, and in a similar guise at 1:12 of “The Mandalorians of Death Watch”. That track features some action material associated with them, and similar action passages appear in “Maul, Savage and Vizsla”, associated with both Maul, his brother and the Death Watch leader, Pre Vizsla. This is a nice suite that compiles all the material related to them into one long piece and the Death Watch theme is featured prominently throughout, especially in the first 2 minutes and around the 4:50 mark. Maul & Savage Spoiler Maul is one of the best developed characters in the whole show, but surprisingly, he didn’t have a properly established melody associated with him until late in the show (a theme made clear by his presence in the Rebels show). Before that, in the Clone Wars he had a whispering motif, reminiscent of the music Williams composed for his scenes in Episode 1 (not the Duel of the Fates theme), that represented his twisted intentions. You can hear it mixing with the action music at 1:15 and of “Maul, Savage and Pre Vizsla”, and again sparsed through “Maul and Savage Break Out”. That cue introduces and develops his main theme at 0:43, a low, ominous idea usually played on cello that perfectly encapsulates his quiet but menacing presence. The theme gets properly developed a couple of times in the final arc of the show, playing in its standard variation at of 0:33 and 1:04 of “The Throne”, joined by low male chorus, reminiscent of the Darth Plagueis music from Episode 3. Maul has a secondary idea (pointed out by @darkspine10) that pops up a few times in some of his scenes in Season 4 and Season 5. We can hear it at 0:55 of "Intruders", and also at the beginning of "Darth Maul Breaks Obi-Wan". Maul’s brother, Savage, also received a theme, a powerful theme usually played with choir that represents the brute force of the character, but this theme is almost completely missing from any of the released tracks. This is a suite that summarizes the idea, with references to Maul’s whispering motif. Ventress & the Nightsisters Spoiler Ventress has a sneaky string motif that pops up many times when she is on screen, like at 2:24 of “Jedi Master Luminara”, briefly at 0:17 of “Duel in the Engine Room II” or again in an action variant at 0:40 of “Lightsaber Duel on Level 1315”, right after Ahsoka’s theme. But for the more emotional sides of her character development, and her relationship with Talzin and the Nightsisters, a couple of other ideas are played around. For example, we hear an ascending melody that underscores the tragic memories of her childhood starting at 0:16 of “Ventress the Nightsister” (also know as “Story of Ventress”). That melody seems to be a one-off, but there’s a beautiful choral interlude in the cue (at 0:54, which presents an idea associated with the nightsisters and also their leader, Talzin). This idea gets reprised at 0:46 and 1:08 of “Talzin and Daka”, and in a similar way at the opening of “Talzin Warns Dooku”. One of my favorite ideas for these characters is a theme that seems to represent the Nightsisters especifically. You can hear it right at the start of “Invisibility Potion”, and it gets extensive development through that cue, also inclduing some references to the Ventress motif I mentioned earlier at 0:23, before it builds into a conjunction of both ideas in a sort of exotic dance, at 0:44, where the sneaky strings join the female voices to representh both Ventress herself, and her relationship to the Nightsisters. This idea appears again at 1:10 of “Talzin Warns Dooku”, and will also be reprised in the Rebels show. In this section I also want to mention another motif associated with the forces of evil, the Separatists motif. (thanks to @TheAvengerButton for pointing it out). It does not appear much but when it does, it has a great effect, perfectly representing the evil side of the story. It can be heard at 1:39 of “Jedi Master Luminara” and again at 0:08 of “Grievous Destroys the Ship” where it builds in a march-like arrangement, then going into several developments of the idea through the cue. It then opens “Rogue Jedi” with great orchestral force. Smaller / Standalone Themes Spoiler There are some more ideas I initially missed, and were pointed out by @darkspine10 and @CGCJ. First we have the theme for Boba Fett that appears in a couple of arcs related to the character. You can listen to it to an unsettling variation at 0:31 of "Windu Survived" and as a beautiful choral interlude for the action of "Ahsoka Chases Aurra", at 0:41. Sadly, most of the variations on the idea are unreleased so far, and something similar happens with Cad Bane's theme. Fortunately, this western-like idea returned in the Bad Batch and got extended development, but in the original The Clone Wars show, we can listen to the theme all through "Cad Bane Lands", being instantly recognizable because of it catchy 4-note motif. Jar Jar Binks episodes are accompanied by a characteristic set of instruments, such as a celtic fiddle or a bagpipe, and you can clearly hear that in cues like "Wesa in Trouble" or "Latest Developments" Then, we have some arcs with specific ideas tied to them- For example, we have a theme for General Ponk Krell in the Umbara Arc that's sadly unreleased so far, and something similar happens with the theme for the Tresspass Arc, and the character of Senator Chuchi. Obi-Wan's Undercover arc in Season 4 has two distinct ideas associated with it that has been released and can be heard at 0:26 of "Sniper Attack" in an exciting action setting, or at 1:02 of "Deadly Game". That cue at 0:40 also contains the other idea, which is more triumphant, that gets reprised at 0:20 of "The First Challenge" I also did the themes from Rebels, which you can read down below. I will probably then also post this thematic catalogue into my blog in case anyone wants to check it out. What are your favorite Kiner scores for this universe ? What themes do you like the most? Any theme or particular variation that I might have missed is more than welcome, and I hope you all enjoyed this little breakdown! Benhip, enderdrag64, CGCJ and 6 others 2 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,341 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Doesn't Ahsoka have a secondary theme, which we hear in General Loathsom / Ahsoka 0:13? Spoiler And at the end of the first episode of Tales of the Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 I think Kiner's (and co) work in the series has some terrific parts. And I feel people don't give it credit enough. And people won't commit to it because it not always have a love orchestra. My favorite themes are definitely Ahsoka's and The Bad Batch's (introduced in S7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said: And people won't commit to it because it not always have a love orchestra. Does a love orchestra only plays Across the Stars, Han Solo and the Princess and the John Barry scores for Out of Africa and Somewhere in Time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 787 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Roll the Bones said: Doesn't Ahsoka have a secondary theme, which we hear in General Loathsom / Ahsoka 0:13? Reveal hidden contents And at the end of the first episode of Tales of the Jedi Yeah, I know which part you mean, and I included that in the Clones & Republic section, and it's what I'm referring as the Republic Variation on the Force Theme. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but in the show it didn't always played in relation to Ahsoka, so that's why I named it a republic theme. But then I watched the first episode of Tales of the Jedi and hearing it play there confused me a bit. As I mentioned, theme associations aren't always clear in these shows, so perhaps it ws intended as a secondary theme for Ahsoka, or perhaps it's a sort of "good guys theme" that plays whenever our main characters overcome the adversities. One thing's for sure, it's a great theme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Bezerra 300 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 26/10/2022 at 7:15 PM, Knight of Ren said: As I mentioned, theme associations aren't always clear in these shows, so perhaps it ws intended as a secondary theme for Ahsoka, or perhaps it's a sort of "good guys theme" that plays whenever our main characters overcome the adversities. One thing's for sure, it's a great theme! In the movie at least, I always consider it the secondary theme for Ahsoka, and all your exaples were basically in relation to Ahsoka, so that might be what it was intended and what might have happened was the sound designer tracked it in some other place. I love the idea and look forward to your next analysis, I definitely missed the "padawan theme" despite listening to those tracks multiple times . I love the Clones theme, and every time it shows up I cheer, it's used super effectively in Rebels (Hera's Arrival being the primary example of a fist pumping rendition) and extremely sorrowful in Bad Batch. I too do hope that this musical catalogue is respected in Ahsoka, being a continuation of Rebels, let's hope it's Kiner and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I think I could credibly argue in either direction "Of COURSE Ahsoka will be Kiner" and "Of COURSE Ahsoka won't be Kiner". Am I remembering rightly that Ahsoka's theme was the first legacy theme that was used in Mando? So somebody was advocating for that. I was only a casual viewer of Clone Wars, so I didn't even realize that Ahsoka HAD a theme until Twilight of the Apprentice in Rebels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,341 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Does March of the Resistance count as legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAvengerButton 175 Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 One of my favorite least talked about themes is the one for the Separatists: The theme plays at 1:39 here. You can also hear a fantastic version of it in the unofficially released tracks from the episode Rising Malevolence (which I don't have offhand and can't find on Youtube, shocking) but can also be heard at the very beginning of Rogue Jedi in full live orchestral force: Gabriel Bezerra, darkspine10 and artus_grayboot 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 787 Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 I was planning on adding that theme in the next part of my analysis but you beat me to it! I hope I can have it ready before the end of the week, and I think it will include Anakin & Padme, Obi-Wan & Satine, the Death Watch, and I was also planning on adding the Separatists motif! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 This is terrific. Are you only doing The Clone Wars or are you doing Rebels and Bad Batch as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 787 Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 Yeah, I'm working on The Clone Wars first, but I plan on then moving on to Rebels and Bad Batch! Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAvengerButton 175 Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 On 03/11/2022 at 6:38 AM, Knight of Ren said: I was planning on adding that theme in the next part of my analysis but you beat me to it! I hope I can have it ready before the end of the week, and I think it will include Anakin & Padme, Obi-Wan & Satine, the Death Watch, and I was also planning on adding the Separatists motif! I apologize, I wasn't trying to steal your thunder! I can't wait to read your next post--as someone who has been analyzing Gordy Haab's soundtracks I love a good theme/motif breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 44 minutes ago, TheAvengerButton said: as someone who has been analyzing Gordy Haab's soundtracks That's cool too! artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 787 Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 On 26/10/2022 at 9:45 PM, Knight of Ren said: Ahsoka Tano Reveal hidden contents I feel like the first theme to be mentioned should be Ahsoka’s Theme, not because it’s the one played the most, but because it’s the theme that certainly makes the bigger emotional impact through the show, even carrying over to the characters live action appearance in The Mandalorian (and I hope that whoever scores the Ahsoka show is able to develop this idea into the score, since I think it’s now strongly associated with her). This idea is present right from the very beginning, in the movie that launched the series, and it’s one of the last things we hear in the final moments of season 7, clearly making it the most important new theme of the show. And even if it does not appear all the times the character is on-screen, the theme manages to make such a big emotional impact in the moments that matter, like when she leaves the jedi order at the end of season 5, or during her heroic actions during the Siege of Mandalore, in season 7. We get hints of the theme in the last part of “Meet Ahsoka”, before the theme is properly introduced at 0:54 of “General Loathsom / Ahsoka” where it plays in its traditional bass flute setting, before growing to a soaring statement of the theme. A similar arrangement can be heard at 1:00 of “Fight to the End” The theme appears here and there through the show, but for her dramatic arc at the end of season 5 it’s where the theme really returns with some great new interesting variations. “Fugitive in the Sewers” opens with a ttragic rendition of the theme, before it gets arranged for an action sequence in “Anakin Wants Her Alive”, or a cool heroic statement at 0:36 of “Lightsaber Duel on Level 1315”. It turns somber at 0:16 of “Ahsoka is Captured”, and tragic at 3:12 of “Jedi Council Hearing” and at 0:42 of “Entering the Chambers”, before the theme’s emotional closure at the end of the last episode of Season 5. “Ahsoka’s Decision” and “Ahsoka Leaves” underscore the dramatic aftermath of this narrative arc, and Kevin Kiner supported these sad moments with gorgeous renditions of her theme, as well as the presentation of a melody that pops out in these two cues as a sort of Farewell Theme. “Ahsoka’s Decision” opens with a gentle rendition of Ahsoka’s Theme, before some tragic passages lead to an emotional rendition of the Farewell Theme at 1:12. “Ahsoka Leaves” opens with a solemn complete rendition of Williams’ Force Theme, with a beautiful interlude at 0:42, before the Farewell Theme appears one last time in a similarly emotional rendition, at 1:18. This gorgeous melody for cello closes the episode, before a heartbreaking rendering of Ahsoka’s Theme plays on bass flute, at 1:50 of that cue, to send off her story in a beautiful but extremely sad way. As well know, she makes a comeback in Season 7. Her return is scored beautifully with her theme at the opening of “Ahsoka is Back”, before the theme returns to its former glory in “Ahsoka and the 501st”. Listen how at 0:58, the theme is warm and welcoming, and slowly develops with beautiful variations of the theme. The theme gets an emotional rendition at the opening of “Anakin Sees Ahsoka Leave” before the theme becomes bold and heroic in the fantastic action cue that is “Race You to the Surface”, at 1:14, and gets a couple more action arrangements like choral rendition at 2:26 of “Ahsoka vs Maul”, or the bombastic statement of the theme at 2:05 of “Break for the Shuttle”. After the dramatic events that are underscored by this fantastic set-piece, it’s time to say farewell to the fallen, and the composers here crafted a heartbreaking piece that accompanies Ahsoka, Rex and other clone survivors while they’re “Burying the Dead”, an emotional cue which is build around synths, reverbered piano, and a beautiful yet fleeting rendition of Ahsoka’s Theme at 1:41, which finishes off the series, and serves as a somber and tragic farewell to The Clone Wars. I also want to mention some sort of secondary idea associated with her, that plays in scenes relating to her relationship with Anakin, that also seems to relate to Luminara and her Padawan, Barriss, so perhaps it’s just a sort of Master-Padawan Theme. It’s not used that much, but gets a couple of different variations in some episodes. It opens “Jedi Master Luminara” with a gentle choral version, before an emotional statemetn of the theme plays at 1:27 of “Elevating the Rocks”. The theme has also a couple of action variants, like the one at 1:43 of “Luminara and Barriss”, or at 0:14 of “Everyone Fighting”. This Padawan theme concludes its emotional journey at 1:15 of “Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Argue”, with a warm and emotional rendition. The Mortis Arc Reveal hidden contents The Mortis Arc has a couple of ideas exclusive to it that I want to mention, before I dive into other more prominent themes. One of them is the Mortis Theme, which as I mentioned aboves, it’s just a variation on William’s Force Theme, created by Kiner & co. to underscore this beautiful and emotional arc. At 0:53 of “Anakin Dreams of Shmi”, both themes are intertwined, to help the connection be established, before the Mortis Theme plays on its own at 1:31. It turns dramatic in the action variant at 0:29 of “Everyone Fighting”. The next two cues, which offer the emotional climax of this arc, also feature the second idea, which is a sort of variation on the Padawan Theme. These two cues are “Hamlet-Like Tragedy” and “Father’s Sacrifice”. The first one opens with the variation on the Padawan Theme, before at 0:41 we get a choral and orchestral statement of the Mortis Theme, and even a reference to Ahsoka’s Theme, before we get another Padawan Theme variation near the end of the cue. And then, “Father’s Sacrifice”, offers extended treatment to the Mortis Theme. Around the two minute mark we get a brief variation on the Padawan Theme, before the Force Theme enters the scene, then joined by the Mortis Theme, at 2:54 where it achieves its most prominent statement, with choir and orchestra offering a dramatic and fulfilling statement of the theme to send off this fantastic arc. The Clones & The Republic Reveal hidden contents And finally, we get to the Clones, which are the heart and soul of the whole show, as the extended length of the series allowed us to know and understand better how they are, their different personalities, their relationships with the Jedi, and then fear and lament the tragic outcome of the Clone Wars. They have a main melodic idea that pops through the series, and it’s a representation of their noble side. We can hear the complete presentation of the theme during the first half of “The Clones”, before it gets reprised in action mode at 2:50 of “Buzz Droids”. The theme appears here and there during the show, and gets prominent appearances during the last season, in both the Bad Batch arc and in the Siege of Mandalore. It becomes nostalgic on trumpet at the beginning of “Misplaced Hope”, playing again on strings at 1:14 of that track, and appears again at 0:42 of “Finest Troopers”, before closing the track with the conjunction of the Clones Theme, and the Bad Batch Theme, a march-like theme that especifically represents this groups of clones, and that will become more prominent in their own show. In The Clone Wars, that theme appears a couple of times in their episodes, being especially noteworthy the suite arrangement of their theme in “Bad Batch Theme”. The Clones Theme appears a couple of times during the Siege of Mandalore, to offer an emotional farewell to the clones and their themes. At 0:20 of “Aftermath in Mandalore” is reflective and solemn, before one final twisted action statement at 0:40 of “Y-Wing”. In the Siege of Mandalore we also hear thematic closure to a couple of different ideas that have also been related to the clones and the republic right from the beginning. There are two heroic variants of themes already introduced, that are used in some action scenes through the show. One of them derivates from The Force Theme and the other derivates from The Clones Theme. The Republic Variation on the Force Theme is mostly used to represent a victory for the good guys. At 2:12 of “Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Argue”, the theme builds from the first notes to offer a complete statement of this theme. There are a couple of action arrangements of the theme through the show, and “Buzz Droids” contains one of the best ones at 1:27. “Padme and Ahsoka” offers its noble arrangement at 1:27, before we get a couple of rousing renditions of the theme at 0:12 and 1:16 of “General Loathsom / Ahsoka”. This track opens with the heroic variation on the Clone Theme, and it’s all over the tracks that cover the Battle of Christophsis from the movie. This idea is used as a sort of heroic fanfare during action sequences, and is derived from the Clones Theme, sometimes intermingling with it or the Republic Theme. “Buzz Droids” contains a couple of heroic blasts of the theme, at 0:22 and you can hear similar statements of the theme at 1:26 of “Obi-Wan’s Negotiation” and 0:40 of “Meet Ahsoka”. It appears prominently in “Battle of Christophsis” intermingling with an especific idea for the Battle of Christophsis, that you can hear all over the track right from the start. All of this ideas appear through the show, and most of them get reprised in other shows, like Rebels or the Bad Batch, as the clones appear again on screen, or as some events of the Clone Wars are referred to in those shows. There are a couple of secondary ideas related to the clones that I want to mention, but their meaning is not always clear, so it’s not easy to name them properly. For example, in the second half of “The Clones” we get a repeating mysterious motif that appears a couple of times in some episodes, but so far, I haven’t been able to find a meaning for it. There’s also a sort of Sacrifice Theme that appears in “A True Trooper”, that gets oddly reprised during the Mortis Arc in “Everyone Fighting”. As I said, it’s a bit difficult to name and identify all this different ideas as there’s such a vast amount of music in the show, most of it still unreleased. Anakin and Padme Reveal hidden contents Apart from briefly referencing William’s Across the Stars, Kiner & co. composed a beautiful enw theme for Anakin and Padme’s relationship, that does not play a lot, but gets featured prominently in some of their scenes together. It has two different sections, both played in full in “Anakin and Padme”. The B section opens the cue, before the main A section plays in a lovely statement at 0:40 of that cue, developing in full for the rest of the track. In the “Padme” track, we can hear some more gorgeous statements of both sections, with the B section playing at 0:12, before building to a beautiful rendition of their main melody at 0:56 until the end. Their theme is referenced here and there beautifully, with a lovely rendition of the A secton at 1:32 of “Anakin and Padme”, after we hear the Across the Starts theme. Also, I want to note a small repeating motif for Padme that pops up mostly through the movie and the first seasons. This melody usually played on oboe appears at 0:40 of “Jedi Council” and is reprised on a slower variation at 0:15 of “Padme and Ahsoka” Obi-Wan and Satine Reveal hidden contents This couple has one of my favorite themes in the entire show, and the team of composers really went out of their way to create a memorable and emotional idea that perfectly represents this couple and their relationship until the Duchess’ tragic demise. The theme has a sort of introductory motif, built around two notes, that then develops into their proper main theme. The motif gets hinted in a dark variation at 0:53 of “Obi-Wan and Satine Meet” before it’s properly introduced at the outset of “Obi-Wan and Satine”. That track presents both ideas in full, and develops them extensively to great effect. I particularly love the emotional statement of the main melody at 2:15. The theme appears in some of their scenes, like at the subtle references of the theme at 1:51 of “The Mandalorians of Death Watch”, and recieves an emotional send off in the cue “Darth Maul Breaks Obi-Wan”. At 0:52 we hear a distressed appearance of the two-note motif, before their theme burst with tragic beauty at 1:15. After the Duchess’ death, the theme almost completely disappears. The Death Watch Reveal hidden contents This mysterious group of Mandalorians recieves a sort of march-like theme, which resembles the Imperial March a bit in its chord progression. It’s featured quite a lot in the story arcs where they appear, but sadly, it’s does not appear a lot in the released tracks. It appears in a standard variation at 0:13 of “Obi-Wan and Satine Meet”, and in a similar guise at 1:12 of “The Mandalorians of Death Watch”. That track features some action material associated with them, and similar action passages appear in “Maul, Savage and Vizsla”, associated with both Maul, his brother and the Death Watch leader, Pre Vizsla. This is a nice suite that compiles all the material related to them into one long piece and the Death Watch theme is featured prominently throughout, especially in the first 2 minutes and around the 4:50 mark. Maul & Savage Reveal hidden contents Maul is one of the best developed characters in the whole show, but surprisingly, he didn’t have a properly established melody associated with him until late in the show (a theme made clear by his presence in the Rebels show). Before that, in the Clone Wars he had a whispering motif, reminiscent of the music Williams composed for his scenes in Episode 1 (not the Duel of the Fates theme), that represented his twisted intentions. You can hear it mixing with the action music at 1:15 and of “Maul, Savage and Pre Vizsla”, and again sparsed through “Maul and Savage Break Out”. That cue introduces and develops his main theme at 0:43, a low, ominous idea usually played on cello that perfectly encapsulates his quiet but menacing presence. The theme gets properly developed a couple of times in the final arc of the show, playing in its standard variation at of 0:33 and 1:04 of “The Throne”, joined by low male chorus, reminiscent of the Darth Plagueis music from Episode 3. Maul’s brother, Savage, also received a theme, a powerful theme usually played with choir that represents the brute force of the character, but this theme is almost completely missing from any of the released tracks. This is a suite that summarizes the idea, with references to Maul’s whispering motif. Ventress & the Nightsisters Reveal hidden contents Ventress has a sneaky string motif that pops up many times when she is on screen, like at 2:24 of “Jedi Master Luminara”, briefly at 0:17 of “Duel in the Engine Room II” or again in an action variant at 0:40 of “Lightsaber Duel on Level 1315”, right after Ahsoka’s theme. But for the more emotional sides of her character development, and her relationship with Talzin and the Nightsisters, a couple of other ideas are played around. For example, we hear an ascending melody that underscores the tragic memories of her childhood starting at 0:16 of “Ventress the Nightsister” (also know as “Story of Ventress”). That melody seems to be a one-off, but there’s a beautiful choral interlude in the cue (at 0:54, which presents an idea associated with the nightsisters and also their leader, Talzin). This idea gets reprised at 0:46 and 1:08 of “Talzin and Daka”, and in a similar way at the opening of “Talzin Warns Dooku”. One of my favorite ideas for these characters is a theme that seems to represent the Nightsisters especifically. You can hear it right at the start of “Invisibility Potion”, and it gets extensive development through that cue, also inclduing some references to the Ventress motif I mentioned earlier at 0:23, before it builds into a conjunction of both ideas in a sort of exotic dance, at 0:44, where the sneaky strings join the female voices to representh both Ventress herself, and her relationship to the Nightsisters. This idea appears again at 1:10 of “Talzin Warns Dooku”, and will also be reprised in the Rebels show. In this section I also want to mention another motif associated with the forces of evil, the Separatists motif. (thanks to @TheAvengerButton for pointing it out). It does not appear much but when it does, it has a great effect, perfectly representing the evil side of the story. It can be heard at 1:39 of “Jedi Master Luminara” and again at 0:08 of “Grievous Destroys the Ship” where it builds in a march-like arrangement, then going into several developments of the idea through the cue. It then opens “Rogue Jedi” with great orchestral force. I updated the main post with the new themes, and I think I'm done with the Clone Wars. I added Anakin and Padme, Obi-Wan and Satine, the Death Watch, Maul, Savage, Ventress and finally the Nightsisters themes. Feel free to add any correction or any theme I might have missed. But now, I will start with my breakdown of Rebels, which I like even more! michael_grig and Gabriel Bezerra 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Bezerra 300 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Never realised Ventress and the Nightsisters had themes, and that Maul's theme from Rebels was in Clone Wars. The Death Watch theme reminds me of the Dies Irae, pretty sure it's intencional. Really looking forward to your Rebels analysis, I probably missed a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post darkspine10 9 Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2022 Maul also has another theme used on a few occasions, notably when Savage discovers Maul's hovel in Brothers, the aftermath of the Bank raid in Revival, and before Satine's death in The Lawless (and probably a few other occasions in Seasons 4 or 5). Oh, and Boba Fett also has a theme, though it's not in any released tracks. It's here at 0:31 in this cue from Death Trap: It continued to be used in Season 4 in both Deception and Bounty. Cad Bane also has some thematic material, which was also brought into his appearances in the Bad Batch. A lot of it can be found in his debut episode, Hostage Crisis: Jar-Jar and Naboo-set episodes in general are represented by Celtic fiddles and similar instruments, such as in this cue: General Krell also has his own theme, but that's not been available in any clean tracks. There are a few episodes that have specific one-off themes too, Trespass being a notable example for having both a main theme, and a unique theme for Senator Chuchi. CGCJ, enderdrag64, Knight of Ren and 2 others 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 787 Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 Wow!! That's a lot of themes I missed. I knew Cad Bane had some motif associated with him because of his apparition on the Bad Batch but I don't know why, I just forgot to include it. But I completely missed on the other ones, and for example, as soon as I read your post, I remembered noticing the Bobba motif when watching the show, but it was a while ago, so I didn't remembered it well. So thanks for pointing out all of these, and I will update the main post with this info (obviously crediting you) Thanks! darkspine10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGCJ 394 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 On 09/11/2022 at 4:59 PM, darkspine10 said: Oh, and Boba Fett also has a theme, though it's not in any released tracks. It's here at 0:31 in this cue from Death Trap: Here's another example of a theme for Boba: Spoiler On 09/11/2022 at 4:59 PM, darkspine10 said: Jar-Jar and Naboo-set episodes in general are represented by Celtic fiddles and similar instruments, such as in this cue: Another example (the start & 00:28): Spoiler Also, here's my spreadsheets on Kevin Kiner and his team's Star Wars scores: The Clone Wars, Rebels, The Bad Batch, Tales of the Jedi. darkspine10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGCJ 394 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 On 26/10/2022 at 8:45 PM, Knight of Ren said: There are a couple of secondary ideas related to the clones that I want to mention, but their meaning is not always clear, so it’s not easy to name them properly. For example, in the second half of “The Clones” we get a repeating mysterious motif that appears a couple of times in some episodes, but so far, I haven’t been able to find a meaning for it. The second half of The Clones is literally just a cue from The Box, an episode that doesn't even feature a single Clone! I have no idea why it was mixed with the final cue from Rookies, an episode from three series earlier! (Although it is the only representation for the fourth series on the Seasons One Through Six release, so I am grateful that it was included albeit cutdown) Spoiler On 26/10/2022 at 8:45 PM, Knight of Ren said: There’s also a sort of Sacrifice Theme that appears in “A True Trooper”, that gets oddly reprised during the Mortis Arc in “Everyone Fighting”. "Everyone Fighting" seems to just be a mix of tracked cues by David Glen Russell ("A True Trooper") & Kevin Kiner (cues from the rest of the arc), meaning there's no theme just an excerpt of the cue being tracked. darkspine10 and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkspine10 9 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 One other interesting thing to note about the Mortis theme is that it was brought back for several totally new compositions in Season 5... as a theme for Letta Turmond in Sabotage and The Jedi Who Knew Too Much! There's no logical connection I can think of between the two, and the later episodes are entirely new cues, not reused from the Mortis arc itself. They just decided to use the theme in an entirely new context. No examples of this have been released clean, but go to 10:22 or 18:09 in Sabotage to hear some uses of the theme. 5 hours ago, CGCJ said: The second half of The Clones is literally just a cue from The Box, an episode that doesn't even feature a single Clone! I have no idea why it was mixed with the final cue from Rookies, an episode from three series earlier! (Although it is the only representation for the fourth series on the Seasons One Through Six release, so I am grateful that it was included albeit cutdown) For the masterpost of themes, the 'Obi-Wan undercover' arc in Season 4 also has its own unique theme, as heard in that Box cue and a few others: artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Recent podcast interview with Kevin Kiner: https://anchor.fm/blabbathehutt/episodes/Episode-29---Kevin-Kiner-e1suh77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 787 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 @darkspine10 @CGCJ I'm a bit late, I know, but I updated my main post with all the additions you made on the different themes, and I'm already working at the same time on the thematic breakdown of Rebels and The Bad Batch, to coincide with the release of Season 2! I will slowly update the post first with Rebels, but I'm also using this to start a bit of conversation about the second season of Bad Batch and the music. What are your thoughts so far, on both the show and the music?? darkspine10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 I adore Omega's theme. Hits me like a ton of bricks every time. JNHFan2000 and Mitth'raw'nuorodo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkspine10 9 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I'm enjoying Bad Batch quite a bit from a musical standpoint. The Batch's main theme, which of course debuted in TCW, is a very traditionally bombastic one, but I've grown to quite enjoy its variations. Omega's theme is a delightful piece that highlights the more emotionally resonant moments. Fennec Shand's new theme, which sadly hasn't been used for her live-action appearances, evokes Ventress' theme to my ears, a similar use of brief, sinister high notes. The new reprises of older themes have been great too, from the Clone motif, Cad Bane, or even some John Williams' pieces like the Trade Federation march, Kamino theme, or the original Imperial theme from ANH, all of which haven't been heard in ages. Of the episodes so far, I think Aftermath, Cornered, and Bounty Lost have my favourite soundtracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 My daughter wanted to watch Rebels last night and she wanted to watch the first one. I know at this point that the score is almost entirely Star Wars OT scores chopped up and repurposed (with a new theme for Ezra) but it's really well done! Heck, the tracked music in Star Trek was so much worse than this. I'm saying that while "Hey just use Star Wars music" sounds cheap and easy it was actually really done with care and (I'm guessing) love. To this day I get chills at how Kiner uses the flutes from when Ben says "Obi-Wan Kenobi? That's a name I've not heard in a long time" as kind of this "Something is up with the Force" motif. I can't think of any other existing JW themes or music that got a new lease on life the way that one did. Just 8 years later it's easy to forget: This was the first taste of OT Star Wars that we'd gotten in 32 years! And to do it all in Ralph McQarrie style, no less! enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 The one weird thing to me about Rebels' score in its early episodes is the quoting of Princess Leia's theme in seemingly random scenes, it happens quite often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 787 Posted January 11, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2023 Yeah, the bad batch score is great, and I love how the two main themes complement each other, the Bad Batch march accompanying some of their action sequences, while Omega's theme serves as an emotional relief for these action. And then the other themes have some nice developments like Cad Bane or Hera, and Fennec's motif is great too. I guess the motif didn't had any chance to appear in The Mandalorian since it was released before The Bad Batch, and for later seasons, Goransson had already established a sound for the character in her live-action appearances. As for Rebels, I like the first seasons for what they are even with their thematic inconsistencies (which also happened in Clone Wars), but the highlights are Ezra's theme, the Grand Inquisitor's theme and then the variations on Ahsoka's at the end of Season 2, but for me, Season 3 and 4 are much better because it's where Kiner and co were able to show their own voice with so many great themes, and some variations on old ones. JNHFan2000, CGCJ, darkspine10 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Knight of Ren said: Yeah, the bad batch score is great, and I love how the two main themes complement each other, the Bad Batch march accompanying some of their action sequences, while Omega's theme serves as an emotional relief for these action. This! 1 hour ago, Knight of Ren said: As for Rebels, I like the first seasons for what they are even with their thematic inconsistencies (which also happened in Clone Wars), but the highlights are Ezra's theme, the Grand Inquisitor's theme and then the variations on Ahsoka's at the end of Season 2, but for me, Season 3 and 4 are much better because it's where Kiner and co were able to show their own voice with so many great themes, and some variations on old ones. Can't argue here. I mean, that's the show. It starts with plain straightforward Star Wars (which was great!) and then it built it into more. Man, I can't believe that Ahsoka and Vader (and that music!) was only at the end of season 2! 2 hours ago, enderdrag64 said: The one weird thing to me about Rebels' score in its early episodes is the quoting of Princess Leia's theme in seemingly random scenes, it happens quite often The only time it really stood out to me was at the end of the first two parter and that was because he was quoting the end of Revenge of the Sith for Obi-Wan's Hologram. I loved when Leia DID show up and Kiner played the opening of the concert version of Leia's theme over the titles rather than the theme proper. One of the biggest missed opportunities was the end of the episode with Ben. It ends with Ben watching Luke and it plays Lost R2. Then the sunset music plays over the credits. If they had jiggered it around just a bit, that's the piece that ends with the flutes playing the Rebel theme! enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkspine10 9 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 My favourite bit of Rebels' reuse of Williams material is when the opening of Walker Assault theme from ESB is made into a more sustained action piece: Spoiler It's one of Williams most seldom used themes in the OT (about one use in ESB and ROTJ each, the latter coming during 3PO's storytelling scene). The funniest examples of Williams copying have to be the two occasions when they borrowed from Indiana Jones instead of Star Wars Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, darkspine10 said: My favourite bit of Rebels' reuse of Williams material is when the opening of Walker Assault theme from ESB is made into a more sustained action piece: Which would be it's first use on screen, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CGCJ 394 Posted January 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2023 @darkspine10 I think you should spoiler the videos as they seem to be slowing down the page loading time; it took several minutes just for the videos in your latest post to appear! darkspine10, artus_grayboot, Benhip and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benhip 21 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Hi, that’s a great analysis ! I was wondering if you were gonna post it on your blog, since I have difficulties accessing to this page, that would be very useful… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 787 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2023 14 hours ago, Benhip said: Hi, that’s a great analysis ! I was wondering if you were gonna post it on your blog, since I have difficulties accessing to this page, that would be very useful… Yeah, I'm working on it as well as working on the thematic breakdown for Rebels and Bad Batch, which I had to start over because I lost the work I had already done... I will try to post everything in here as well as in my blog, because I have also realized that the page takes quite some time to load in comparison to others, which might make it a bit more difficult to check out properly. artus_grayboot, enderdrag64 and JNHFan2000 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Knight of Ren said: Yeah, I'm working on it as well as working on the thematic breakdown for Rebels and Bad Batch, which I had to start over because I lost the work I had already done... I will try to post everything in here as well as in my blog, because I have also realized that the page takes quite some time to load in comparison to others, which might make it a bit more difficult to check out properly. I believe that if you wrap the videos in Spoiler tags that that will help the load time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkspine10 9 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 On 12/01/2023 at 4:18 PM, Tallguy said: Which would be it's first use on screen, right? Well, the opening part of the cue in ESB (about 26 seconds) was dialled out, but the underscore with the same melody continues throughout the early Battle of Hoth scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Would anyone happen to know the composer credits for the first volume of The Bad Batch Season 2 album? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGCJ 394 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said: Would anyone happen to know the composer credits for the first volume of The Bad Batch Season 2 album? Thanks in advance Those are listed my spreadsheet. Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Many thanks you're the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Has anyone else noticed that Kiner frequently uses a wrong note in the Force theme? For the 12th note, he tends to just go down a minor third as opposed to a minor sixth. It creates this situation where the theme bounces back and forth between two notes, rather than dropping back down to the first note of the theme like it should. I’m already bracing myself for his “variation” to be in the Ahsoka show. Genuinely not sure if it’s intentional, or if he just misremembered the theme… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, Tydirium said: Has anyone else noticed that Kiner frequently uses a wrong note in the Force theme? For the 12th note, he tends to just go down a minor third as opposed to a minor sixth. It creates this situation where the theme bounces back and forth between two notes, rather than dropping back down to the first note of the theme like it should. I’m already bracing myself for his “variation” to be in the Ahsoka show. Genuinely not sure if it’s intentional, or if he just misremembered the theme… Interesting. Example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,166 Posted August 22, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Tallguy said: Interesting. Example? 0:32 0:45 I can’t find this one on YouTube, but 1:58 of this Spotify track is an example from TCW: It seems like practically the only times it's correct, are when it’s basically a copy-paste job from the movies (e.g. the Binary Sunset horn solo), or when it turns out that the cue wasn’t actually by Kiner, but rather by one of his team. Kiner himself has been doing it wrong for years. Gabriel Bezerra, enderdrag64 and Tallguy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 13/01/2023 at 3:11 PM, Knight of Ren said: Yeah, I'm working on it as well as working on the thematic breakdown for Rebels and Bad Batch, which I had to start over because I lost the work I had already done... I will try to post everything in here as well as in my blog, because I have also realized that the page takes quite some time to load in comparison to others, which might make it a bit more difficult to check out properly. Just wanted to check in and see if there were any updates on this? Just very excited to dive into this material - really have enjoyed all the Clone Wars themes so far. Also while I'm here, I wanted to posit a possible Dooku/Serenno theme I've not seen posted about yet. To clarify, this is not the mystery theme in Attack of the Clones, nor Dooku's theme in Tales of the Jedi: Spoiler Not sure which episode this track features in for The Bad Batch, but I believe that Dooku’s theme plays from 1:39-2:00 in the track Phee and Dooku’s Treasure. Refer to Clone Wars Season 1 Ep. 11, timecode 18:20-19:01. For reference sake, I found the clip here (was difficult to find): The theme is very similar to/probably derived from the beginning of the track Inner City from A New Hope, which I believe is a variation of the Imperial theme in ANH: darkspine10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 787 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2023 On 21/09/2023 at 10:53 AM, artus_grayboot said: Just wanted to check in and see if there were any updates on this? Just very excited to dive into this material - really have enjoyed all the Clone Wars themes so far. This project got sidelined a bit, and I'm out of home for a couple of weeks, but Ahsoka has made me fall in love again with Kiner's music, and I will probably try to update this breakdown as soon as I can. Thanks for the interest and the patience! artus_grayboot, Gabriel Bezerra, Tallguy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 4:32: Spoiler 1:41: Spoiler artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Is there a way to make this page load faster? It almost took 2.5 minutes for it to load for me enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,322 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Yes. People who plan on posting many youtube embeds in their post could put them all in a spoiler block. Tydirium and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 15 hours ago, Tydirium said: 4:32: Reveal hidden contents 1:41: Reveal hidden contents Really cool considering that Kanan is about to fall off the cliff, and that score from Williams is influenced by Herrmann. Reminds me of the Vertigo chord in DM to Abm Spoiler Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 787 Posted October 4, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2023 THEMES FROM REBELS Okay, it's about time to update this page with the themes from the Rebels show, and what a better moment than now, after Ahsoka's final episode. During the first two seasons Kiner & co relied a bit too much on John Williams material, but they started to introduce some themes of their own, and by the later seasons, their identities for each of the main characters had already become quite recognizable and memorable. They also incorporated some themes from The Clone Wars show, Ahsoka's theme being the most important of the returning ideas. So without further ado, let's jump right into it. For simplification, I won't do a detailed breakdown of the Williams' themes that appear, but if you listen to the albums for S1 and S2, you'll find plenty of quotes from the Original Trilogy, like the Force Theme, the Imperial March, Yoda's Theme or Princess Leia's Theme, as well as some brief references to the Kamino material from the Prequels at one point in S2, and one of the motifs from the Battle of Endor gets reworked as a theme for the Ghost Crew (more on that later). First of all, the themes that come back from The Clone Wars Ahsoka's Theme Spoiler It's Kiner's most important theme, and as such, it accompanies the reappearances of the character through the show. In this particular scene, it's also joined by her secondary idea, that was used from time to time in The Clone Wars. But the theme has a huge impact during the Twilight of the Apprentice episode, at the end of S2. Here the theme shines as it hadn't before, and truly shows what a great and memorable theme it is! The Clones Spoiler The fanfare for the clones appears a couple of times during the show, especially associated with Rex and some of the other clones that remain from the Clone Wars. It appears a couple of times during Rex and Ahsoka Reunited and again from time to time, like at 1:11 of Dismantler Droids Death Watch Spoiler The theme for this group of Mandalorians that was so important during the Clone Wars gets a brief quote in S2, at 1:20 of The Protectors, followed by some Kamino material Maul Spoiler Technically a theme first introduced in Rebels, and later used in The Clone Wars S7, but since I already posted it as a Clone Wars theme, I will leave it here. We have the whispering idea and then the cello theme that represents his tortured presence. The cello theme appears many times during his appearances at the end of S2, like in the track Maul, or at the beginning of Kanan's Mask The theme plays for the last time in S3, where both the whispering motif and the cello theme support his last appearances, like in the mysterious Combining the Holocrons, and finally in It Ends Where It Began, where it's sorrowful and tragic. Obi-Wan & Satine Spoiler This theme is surprisingly briefly quoted during an episode of S3, where Ezra sees a shrine Maul has built for Sabine. Here, both sections of their theme play, before Maul's cello theme enters the scene Nightsisters Spoiler One of the themes associated with the witches of Dathomir, the Nightsisters, appears a couple of times during an episode of S3, where the crew visits Dathomir. It appears at 0:14 of Witches Attack and also subtly at 0:45 of Kanan Possessed And now, it's time to break down the themes that were introduced in Rebels! The Ghost Crew Spoiler This idea is derived from a motif from the Battle of Endor, and it's used through the show to represent the Ghost Crew. It starts as a playful march, but soon develops into a heroic and epic anthem during Breaking Through the Blockade. Before becoming calm and peaceful at the beginning of the Epilogue Ezra Spoiler It's a joyful and warm theme that represents the main character of the show, and later on as he progresses and transforms, so does the theme, becoming quite epic and heroic, but also tragic and emotional. There are many statements of the theme through the show, but I want to highlight a beautiful rendition of the idea at 1:15 of Sabine and Ezra Talk following Sabine material, and a similar variation that plays at the beginning of Sabine Sees Ezra The Inquisitor Spoiler It's the villain of the first season of the show, and he isn't as important as other characters on the show, but the composers gave him an imposing choral idea that confronts our heroes during S1 Hera Spoiler The captain of the Ghost has a sadly underused theme that evokes the feeling of freedom that comes with flying, and the composers take advantage of this using the theme in full a couple of times during her centric episodes, but also allow the theme to turn tragic and emotional during the later half of the show. Kanan Spoiler One of the best characters in the whole show, at first he didn't have a theme, but during S2, the composers slowly started to introduce a theme for the noble jedi, and it became quite important during the later seasons. It's introduced during Kanan and the Walker in action mode, and then in S3 turns mystic and emotional Bit of a spoiler here, but after his tragic demise during S4, the composers introduce a sorrowful idea that intermingles with fragments of his theme and other motifs to offer a sad farewell to the character, in tracks like Nobody More Than Kanan and Kanan's End Credits. The later track is particularly effective in how it uses this Farewell theme, followed by the Loth-Wolves theme and finally a complete statement of Kanan's theme, with even a hint of the main theme from the saga, to send off this great character! Sabine Spoiler It's the last of the main characters to receive a theme, but funny enough, it's one of the most important ones in later seasons, as well as in the Ahsoka show, and it's one of my favorite themes in the whole saga. The Sabine Suite track compiles several separate cues into one long piece that features her theme in full, as well as her secondary idea, which is what opens the piece. Her main theme can be heard at 0:58 in an emotional variation and later on at 2:48 in a brilliant emotional moment, that is amongst my favorites in the whole show! After that, the theme appears from time to time in important scenes for the character like at 0:49 of Sabine Remains, during Passing the Sword, when Sabine Sees Ezra and in a beautiful variation during the Epilogue. Saw Guerrera Spoiler This character appears briefly during some episodes in S3, and the composers granted him a noble and mysterious theme that is almost absent from the released cues, but that appears in Saw Guerrera and Had to be a Bug! Loth-Wolves Spoiler This mysterious and noble creatures receive a beautiful theme that represents their majestic presence but also their mystic side and their connection with the Force. We have the undulating motif that appears at 0:50 of Kanan's Past and then that same track contains their main idea, at 1:30, and a similar thing happens in other tracks like The White-Loth Wolf, that mixes both ideas to great effect. And this is it for Rebels. I think I covered all the main themes, but I might have missed some secondary ideas, so feel free to add them and I will update my post. I might add an image of a reduction of the sheet music for each theme, as I did for The Clone Wars, but that might slow down the thread even more so I don't know about that. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy and may the force be with you! CGCJ, Gabriel Bezerra and artus_grayboot 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGCJ 394 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, Knight of Ren said: Saw Guerrera Here's another track featuring Saw's theme: Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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