Which score from the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy do you like most?

[michael_grig 469]

Which score from the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy do you like most?

[Thor 7,478]

THE FORCE AWAKENS.

 

(geez, did I just post in a STAR WARS thread?).

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

TFA all the way. Probably the SW album I actually listen the most

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I look back on the Winter and Spring of 2016 with affection as a very exciting time in my life for several reasons, and one of them is that the entire period was soundtracked by listening to the Force Awakens OST almost daily.

 

And here's a picture I took in June of that year of the Millennium Falcon hologram in the vinyl release, a very silly gimmick 

 

 

[Datameister 2,037]

Oh, TFA for sure on both. TLJ is too reliant on direct lifts from previous scores, and some of the underscore is kinda anemic. TROS comes closer to the energy of TFA, but it's dragged down a bit by the film's viscerally unfulfilled potential.

 

That said … they're JW Star Wars scores. I can't complain that hard.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

TROS is unfortunately let down by both an OST with too many missing highlights (Falcon Flight, Rey Trains, Advice, Parents, etc.) and a pretty lackluster film presentation, microedited, tracked to death, and frequently buried under sound effects. But it’s actually my favorite of the three, even though TFA is my favorite OST and TLJ is my favorite in the film.

 

Just bring on all three in complete form!

[artguy360 1,843]

TFA is the best for introducing all the new themes, having a sense of freshness, and a pretty good OST. The other two are good, but TFA is the most refreshing.

[Tom 4,640]

This is a tough one for me.  Rey's theme is the best of the three movies, but the middle part of TFA drags for me.  TLJ is consistently good, but rarely great (The Fathiers and The Spark, though, are great).  RoS is the most fun for me to listen to from beginning to end, though I have to begin with a strict regiment of mental exercises to detach the music from the the mess of the film (and abominations such as the lack of The Speeder Chase).  

 

So, TFA for film and RoS for album.  

[Brundlefly 2,385]

For some reason, I've never really listened to TFA and TRoS, but I've listened the hell out of TLJ!

[Andy 4,090]

TRoS for both.  I don't have the problem of disliking the film, nor worrying about what's not in it.  I was smitten in the theater as soon as I heard that propulsive string ostinato for Kylo speeding to Exegol.  

[j39m 75]

I had to check my playcounts for this and it turns out that I actually do listen to TLJ OST more than TFA OST. (But the split of OST / FYC + TLJ film cut in my library makes counting a bit harder.)

 

8 hours ago, Datameister said:

TLJ is too reliant on direct lifts from previous scores, and some of the underscore is kinda anemic.

 

It kills me to admit that I agree a bit with this. "Here They Come" yet again, SuperLeia in the concert arrangement, the straight mish-mash of the sibling / Han-Leia themes on Crait, even the sneaky tracking of the stinger from "Rey Meets BB-8" for Force Skype...

 

I have not had time to exhaustively compare with TRoS, but I suspect there are even more direct lifts there. I remember being unhappy with the direct reprise of "Yoda and the Force."

 

I remember mistaking the Luke-on-Ahch-To sarabande theme for straight underscore and felt underwhelmed for the longest time. It's grown on me a bit since then, but not enough to make it a strong listening experience in isolation.

[Datameister 2,037]

6 hours ago, Andy said:

TRoS for both.  I don't have the problem of disliking the film, nor worrying about what's not in it.  I was smitten in the theater as soon as I heard that propulsive string ostinato for Kylo speeding to Exegol.  

 

I remember a similar feeling at that specific moment in the film. Actually, from the very first bars after the main title, I was already having a feeling of, "Ahhhhh … here we go." And that moment you mentioned helped cement it. Both score and film felt like they were going to be a return to form. I was sorta right about the score. Boy, do I wish I'd even been sorta right about the film.

[crumbs 14,304]

It's so hard to judge Rise of Skywalker because it feels like we've only gotten an hour's worth of 30 second samples and no clear understanding of Williams' intended musical narrative. I'm sure there's a cohesive musical experience just waiting to be assembled by Mike but neither the film nor album make for a satisfying experience. The album in particular wastes far too much time on note for note reprisals of existing music, far more than the oft-criticised Last Jedi OST. 

 

So it really only leaves the other two scores and it's hard to deny the writing prowess and thematic development in TFA. I think TLJ has better highlights but is less consistent and a bit more dull for extended patches. TFA is simply unrivalled with the assortment of quality new themes and I'm grateful for how brilliantly he developed them across the trilogy (rather than abandoning or forgetting about them, as he has in the past). What TLJ really needed was some type of Force-in-hibernation theme to break up the monotony of those incessant Force theme appearances, which would reach its climax in The Spark as Luke returns. By comparison, TFA doesn't really leave you wanting for anything. 

 

In terms of film presentation, Last Jedi leaves the other two for dead. The score is brilliantly mixed and clearly treated with reverence by Johnson and his sound team. Williams is given multiple opportunities to be the only voice in the mix, while he spends the other two films competing for airtime with 500 SFX artists all screaming at the top of their lungs.

 

Enough has been said about Abrams and it's not worth repeating.

[artguy360 1,843]

1 hour ago, j39m said:

I had to check my playcounts for this and it turns out that I actually do listen to TLJ OST more than TFA OST. (But the split of OST / FYC + TLJ film cut in my library makes counting a bit harder.)

 

 

It kills me to admit that I agree a bit with this. "Here They Come" yet again, SuperLeia in the concert arrangement, the straight mish-mash of the sibling / Han-Leia themes on Crait, even the sneaky tracking of the stinger from "Rey Meets BB-8" for Force Skype...

 

I have not had time to exhaustively compare with TRoS, but I suspect there are even more direct lifts there. I remember being unhappy with the direct reprise of "Yoda and the Force."

 

I remember mistaking the Luke-on-Ahch-To sarabande theme for straight underscore and felt underwhelmed for the longest time. It's grown on me a bit since then, but not enough to make it a strong listening experience in isolation.

Wow, I'm surprised to read criticism of The Spark. I love how the music moves fluidly from the Force theme to Luke and Leia to Han and Leia. The Luke and Leia performance in particular is especially lovely. 

 

My biggest non-editing complaint about TLJ and TROS is just the overuse of the Force theme. It's just too much.

[j39m 75]

My criticism is somewhat abstract — it's two legacy "tender and slow" themes (not notably reorchestrated / rearranged AFAICT) strung back to back. That said,

 

3 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I love how the music moves fluidly from the Force theme to Luke and Leia to Han and Leia. The Luke and Leia performance in particular is especially lovely. 

 

No argument here, not from me 😁 even if I'm being picky, I think the moment is effective and I wouldn't call it cheap.

[crumbs 14,304]

3 hours ago, j39m said:

My criticism is somewhat abstract — it's two legacy "tender and slow" themes (not notably reorchestrated / rearranged AFAICT) strung back to back.

 

Williams might make two legacy themes strung back to back seem effortless, but in the hands of a lesser composer......

[Holko 9,499]

 

*unrelated photo

[Vince 34]

This is a hard choice. I probably listen to The Last Jedi the most, because it is such a propulsive score. It does rely a bit too heavily on the Force theme for my tastes but the stoic theme for Luke's exile has stolen my heart. However, both The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker are built on the strong foundations of The Force Awakens. This score introduces such a strong collection of themes that I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge its importance. The Rise of Skywalker owes its flaws to the disjointed movie it accompanies but it does live up to the quality of what came before. All in all, my most listened to album must be The Last Jedi, however, I hold the entire musical sequel trilogy in high esteem.  

[Jay 37,322]

In the film?  Hard to say, because I don't really like these movies, and certainly haven't seen them over and over again or anything. 

 

Really, John did a great job scoring all of them, honestly!  I can remember instances in all 3 films, sitting up in the theater and noticing awesome music I wanted to listen to on its own.  But I think for me, TROS has the most instances of that.  The "Falcon Flight" cue, and the amazing cues with the redeemed Kylo Ren theme just work so great in context.

 

On album?  Easily TFA without question.  It's one of the best albums he's put together in his whole career.  It just flows well and gives you the feeling it's covering everything important by clever use of concert arrangements at just the right times.  The subsequent two OST albums have baffling decisions, leaving off clear highlight cues that made their FYC albums, and even more highlights that didn't.  Man, it's still frustrating to think about all these years later!

[Marian Schedenig 8,177]

19 minutes ago, Jay said:

Man, it's still frustrating to think about all these years later!

 

It's baffling that we can already say "all these years later".

[Datameister 2,037]

24 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

It's baffling that we can already say "all these years later".

 

I was realizing the other day that the big sale to Disney was closer to the release of ROTS than it is to today. Really weird.

[Jay 37,322]

Woah

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

[Arpy 4,145]

TFA all the way! I hate to be the contrarian here, but it's also probably the most cohesive, developed and concise film in the Sequel Trilogy, and the music was fresh and the return of Williams' to the series since 2005!

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

Don't even remember those movies (filmic cannon fodder), as far as Williams goes (who had the unenviable legacy duties):

 

- all the concert pieces (not that there were many)

- a handful of cues per film, i. e. the finale from 'Force Awakens', 'Ach-To island', 'Canto Bight' and 'The Fathiers' from the second and actually quite a few ones from the most awful of the films by far, 'RoS', starting with the desert chase cue (naturally hardly in the movie) and ending with the more sentimental final farewells

 

Apart from that i'm afraid Williams musical grammar has become so separated from modern cinema mores that there were few moments where movie(s) and score really clicked. 

 

[Stark 312]

I think TLJ isn’t just the best sequel score, it’s the best Star Wars score. It’s incredibly well crafted and comparing it to the other sequels demonstrates the benefits of a good director collaboration and/or a director who knows when to say “it’s up to you”.

 

That said, TFA’s album is hard to beat as an album. And TROS none of us have actually had the opportunity to judge as written...

[artguy360 1,843]

12 hours ago, Stark said:

I think TLJ isn’t just the best sequel score, it’s the best Star Wars score. It’s incredibly well crafted and comparing it to the other sequels demonstrates the benefits of a good director collaboration and/or a director who knows when to say “it’s up to you”.

 

That said, TFA’s album is hard to beat as an album. And TROS none of us have actually had the opportunity to judge as written...

Wow, I respect your opinion but I think this is the first time I've seen the opinion that TLJ is the best SW score. There is a lot to like about it, but I don't think it's anywhere near ANH or ESB or ROTS or TPM.

[j39m 75]

14 hours ago, Stark said:

I think TLJ isn’t just the best sequel score, it’s the best Star Wars score.

 

As someone who listens obsessively to the TLJ score (mainly the film cut), I'd be interested in hearing the case you make for this, perhaps in a separate thread 😁

 

I've been slowly visualizing a clear way to verbalize my rationale for liking TLJ's score the way I do, but it's slow going. There's the ever-present danger that my ignorance ("Steiner did it first! This is a Korngold rip-off! JW is borrowing from his own earlier work!") will undercut my case immediately.

[Stark 312]

I don’t have a full rationalization myself, my semi-hot take comes from the level of detail in TLJ’s score which seems to be at another level from almost any other score.

[Datameister 2,037]

28 minutes ago, Stark said:

I don’t have a full rationalization myself, my semi-hot take comes from the level of detail in TLJ’s score which seems to be at another level from almost any other score.

 

Detail in what sense? Sorry, I'm fascinated … for me, TLJ has always been easily the worst of the nine scores.

[rough cut 1,714]

Yea, it’s TFA for having ‘Rey’s Theme’ and ‘The Jedi Steps’. ‘Adagio’ (‘The Starkiller’) as well, I guess. Home table mentions for ’The Falcon’ and ’Scherzo For X-Wings’).

 

TLJ - nothing there for me really.

 

TROS - ‘We Go Together’ is (in spite of the corny title), one of the best themes JW has written. TFA wins by quantity, not quality (but you gotta love that Rey wink wink).

[GerateWohl 4,343]

What makes the TFA OST superior to the other two is that it hardly uses old themes. No idea why Williams made the weird choice seamingly to put almost all quotes of legacy themes from the OT and even TFA onto the OSTs of TLJ and TROS and to leave out so many original highlights (which luckily dominate the FYC albums).

[Jay 37,322]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

What makes the TFA OST superior to the other two is that it hardly uses old themes. No idea why Williams made the weird choice seamingly to put almost all quotes of legacy themes from the OT and even TFA onto the OSTs of TLJ and TROS and to leave out so many original highlights (which luckily) dominate the FYC albums.

 

YES, THANK YOU!  I have no idea why he did that either, it truly makes no sense to me

 

It's bad enough he agree to re-record concert arrangement bits to go into the film, then doubling down on that by taking up space on the OST albums with them is ludicrous to me

[BB-8 3,461]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

YES, THANK YOU!  I have no idea why he did that either, it truly makes no sense to me

 

It's bad enough he agree to re-record concert arrangement bits to go into the film, then doubling down on that by taking up space on the OST albums with them is ludicrous to me

Wagner ended the Ring by merging key Leitmotifs and not by presenting a potpourri of the "best of".

 

I think the merging of the Kylo and Rey/Emperor themes plus the overarching TROS melody did that job. The final potpourri was how variety shows usually end - perhaps intended for comic relief?

[artguy360 1,843]

13 hours ago, Stark said:

I don’t have a full rationalization myself, my semi-hot take comes from the level of detail in TLJ’s score which seems to be at another level from almost any other score.

I agree TLJ is very closely scored in a way the two other sequel films are not. I assume this comes down to the director and JJ not ever delivering a locked film or scene. TLJ is very closely scored. But even that is not unique to me among SW scores. Every SW score aside from the JJ films are closely scored and to great effect.

[Faleel 5,340]

13 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

 for me, TLJ has always been easily the worst of the nine scores.

ROS for me.

[Datameister 2,037]

42 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I agree TLJ is very closely scored in a way the two other sequel films are not. I assume this comes down to the director and JJ not ever delivering a locked film or scene. TLJ is very closely scored. But even that is not unique to me among SW scores. Every SW score aside from the JJ films are closely scored and to great effect.

 

What do you mean by "closely" scored?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

23 minutes ago, Datameister said:

What do you mean by "closely" scored?

 

I think he means like there was more of a relationship between director and composer. Which would be speculation, but I do also get that impression with low little the music was revised/edited in comparison to the other two films. Like there was more planning.

[Holko 9,499]

As it is in the movie, TLJ is treated by far the best.

As for the full score, that could end up being TROS, but we won't know for years.

As for the OST, TFA is by faaaaaaaaaaaaaar one of his or anyone's best assemblies ever, certainly the best SW OST.

[artguy360 1,843]

8 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

What do you mean by "closely" scored?

Closely scored meaning the music follows the on screen action and flow very closely. Not like Micky Mousing, but rather that the music closely reflects what's happening in the movie instead of playing over the top of the movie. I think describing a film as closely scored is pretty common language? I know I didn't come up with it. Some examples of this off the top of my head is Yoda's death scene in ROTJ where the music changes themes and reacts dramatically to the conversation between Luke and Yoda.

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I think he means like there was more of a relationship between director and composer.

 

Is there? My memory is that Johnson said he did a spotting session with Williams, then left him to his own devices.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

The Force Awakens is obviously the best of the score, but I always am surprised by how much everyone loves the album. The pacing feels really weird to me. I always listened to the FYC instead. 

 

Just the fact that Follow Me and The Falcon's pacing is killed the way it is to shove Rey's Theme in between made it so I rarely listened to the OST album.

 

18 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Is there? My memory is that Johnson said he did a spotting session with Williams, then left him to his own devices.

 

He explicitly stated that in an interview. 

 

  

39 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

Actually, there wasn't even a spotting session. Johnson had someone cut together a temp track of JW music (95% from other Star Wars scores). Then they just gave him that temp track to work from. This both shocked me and made perfect sense: I don't know why in the world they'd take this approach, but it certainly helps explain why significant stretches of the score either mimic or directly quote edited versions of pre-existing cues.

 

Actually this.

[TolkienSS 405]

Since I only watched each of those movies once, and that was plenty, I'd say TFA in film, and ROS on album. I find Rey's theme intensely boring, TLJ has no strong thematic identity, but ROS has very nice concert arrangements and cues.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Is there? My memory is that Johnson said he did a spotting session with Williams, then left him to his own devices.

 

No clue, that's just my interpretation of what I assume Artguy was trying to say. Apparently that wasn't what he meant though. 

[Pellaeon 593]

9 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said:

The Force Awakens is obviously the best of the score, but I always am surprised by how much everyone loves the album. The pacing feels really weird to me. I always listened to the FYC instead. 

 

Just the fact that Follow Me and The Falcon's pacing is killed the way it is to shove Rey's Theme in between made it so I rarely listened to the OST album.

 

Same for me. The FYC album—both for the assembly and mix— is my go-to way to listen to the film score, plus Lights! Camera! Music! for the concert arrangements!

[Datameister 2,037]

17 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Is there? My memory is that Johnson said he did a spotting session with Williams, then left him to his own devices.

 

Actually, there wasn't even a spotting session. Johnson had someone cut together a temp track of JW music (95% from other Star Wars scores). Then they just gave him that temp track to work from. This both shocked me and made perfect sense: I don't know why in the world they'd take this approach, but it certainly helps explain why significant stretches of the score either mimic or directly quote edited versions of pre-existing cues.

[artguy360 1,843]

2 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

Actually, there wasn't even a spotting session. Johnson had someone cut together a temp track of JW music (95% from other Star Wars scores). Then they just gave him that temp track to work from. This both shocked me and made perfect sense: I don't know why in the world they'd take this approach, but it certainly helps explain why significant stretches of the score either mimic or directly quote edited versions of pre-existing cues.

RJ and JW definitely watched the film together for some kind of spotting session or conversation about the score. He told a joke anecdote about it somewhere.

[Datameister 2,037]

38 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

RJ and JW definitely watched the film together for some kind of spotting session or conversation about the score. He told a joke anecdote about it somewhere.

 

I'm going off of RJ's description here: https://audioboom.com/posts/6557819-episode-69-rian-johnson-on-the-music-of-star-wars-other-movies. If either of them ever said something that contradicted that description, I'd be curious to read or hear it.

[artguy360 1,843]

59 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

I'm going off of RJ's description here: https://audioboom.com/posts/6557819-episode-69-rian-johnson-on-the-music-of-star-wars-other-movies. If either of them ever said something that contradicted that description, I'd be curious to read or hear it.

I don't remember the source but RJ told a joke about watching the movie with JW for the first time for some kind of spotting purpose and while the Lucas Film logo was on screen just before the main title, he leaned over to JW and joked that he wanted to replace the main title music with something, maybe with silence? And he was a little embarrassed at his joke or something.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I seem to remember something to that effect as well. I know something gave me the impression that there was some sort of spotting session at some point.