95th Academy Awards (2023 ceremony for 2022 films)

[King Mark 3,626]

Never mind, it's pointless to try to explain.

[Edmilson 7,394]

[Yavar Moradi 2,590]

The Last of Us is one of the most beloved and acclaimed games of all time, and it’s pretty darn woke… and then a decade later they turned it into a TV series which is even more woke (understandably, because a decade passed and part of being woke is caring, striving to learn and be better). Both have been hugely successful. So… if gamers are the “antithesis of woke” for some random reason (there’s nothing inherent about being a geek or gamer which would make you less woke and as a sci-fi/fantasy geek from a young age, I’d argue quite strongly the opposite) how/why is that possible?

 

Ellie, the protagonist, is a tough young lesbian… the exact sort of character people complaining about “wokeness” loooove to hate. And her first love interest is African-American. WooOOOOooo… the woke mind virus has ruined gaming!

 

Yavar

[King Mark 3,626]

 I played that game and I never said anything bad about it...apart from a pure gameplay perspective being too linear. I think your misunderstanding as to what issues actually bother me.

[Yavar Moradi 2,590]

It seems pretty clear to me from posts of yours like the ones Koray collected a little further up the thread, but by all means feel free to provide your definition of “woke”, and explain what annoys you so much about a film with a mostly Asian cast getting so much awards recognition. 😊

 

Yavar

[King Mark 3,626]

I haven't seen the movie yet so i can't tell you if it's good or not, but the asian cast doesn't bother me at all. My concern was that it won the awards because of it instead of it's actual merit, or at the very least it was a deciding factor for the academy voters.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

4 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I haven't seen the movie yet so i can't tell you if it's good or not, but the asian cast doesn't bother me at all. My concern was that it got awards because of it instead of it's actual merit, or at the very least it was a deciding factor for the academy voters.

 

How about you watch the movie before deciding if the film won on its own merit or not?

[King Mark 3,626]

 I plan to see the movie. But based on the last few years Oscars I think it's alright to be a bit sceptical.

 

 

[HunterTech 987]

But you've already admitted even yesterday that in the past, the movies that won were often never the ones you felt were the most deserving (a sentiment that no one here has contested). So I got to ask what really is the difference besides the "aesthetic," because I haven't been able to put together a picture that reasonably demonstrates the core flaw in giving awards/attention to projects we wouldn't have recognized in the past.

[King Mark 3,626]

Well before it was simple. Our childhood geek movies (like Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws, E.T., Raiders...) didn't win Best Picture  because the Academy preferred serious dramas or "insightful comedies". On hindsight they should have won because those movies defined their eras.

 

Now they seem to give more awards to movies that coincide with social causes they support, which seems to vary from year to year. And right now it the in thing seems to be diversity and inclusion. So I think it's fair to say Everything Everywhere having an asian cast might have been a factor why it won.

[HunterTech 987]

But serious dramas or "insightful comedies" still make up most of the winners (EEAAO would precisely fall in the latter category, even if more about characters than exact subject matter). It boarders on it being an aesthetic thing once again, but since a lot of studios misunderstand the subjects enough that it can be shoved in without reason for merely a few seconds, I can't really think of enough instances of it being prominent enough in a forceful manner for it to bother casual audiences. So again, is there a particularly meaningful distinction that I'm missing? Because if it's all about how pointless it seems, then why are you making a ruckus if it affects little in terms of the actual quality?

[Yavar Moradi 2,590]

7 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Now they seem to give more awards to movies that coincide with social causes they support, which seems to vary from year to year. And right now it the in thing seems to be diversity and inclusion. So I think it's fair to say this year's winner having an asian cast might have been a factor why it won.

What’s so wrong with it maybe being *a* factor in its win? Doesn’t mean the film doesn’t have merit. How many other films with mostly Asian casts have won in the entire history of the Oscars? For decades Hollywood has had a pretty miserable track record when it comes to recognizing anyone other than white people for awards. If they’re trying even a little bit to reckon with that history and be consciously a little more inclusive going forward, I applaud them for it.

 

Yavar

[King Mark 3,626]

2 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Because if it's all about how pointless it seems, then why are you making a ruckus if it affects little in terms of the actual quality?

 I guess it matters much less this year, because it's not an obvious case like Coda last year.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

"Social issue" movies have historically faired well at the Oscars.  Like Midnight Cowboy, Rain Man and Crash

[King Mark 3,626]

Eh, we've always made fun of political correctness on this board and everyone thought it was funny until a few years ago. I guess a lot of older members left and were replaced by younger people that take those issues more seriously. A lot of my Oscar telecast comments Koray compiled were meant to be sarcastic and not intended to drag anyone into dreary debates.

[Edmilson 7,394]

Actually, time will tell that the most influential production of the social media era is Rick and Morty. The show had a penchant to take stuff that used to be known only by the nerdiest of nerds (specifically the concept of Multiverses) and push them to the extreme, which actually ended up bringing them to the forefront of pop culture, influencing both blockbusters (MCU, DCU) and arthouse movies (EEAAO).

 

Everything Everywhere is the crossover between Rick and Morty and independent arthouse cinema, making it the ideal pop culture creation for the young millennial who binged R&M in the years before. What actually surprises me is that it also convinced the older Academy voters, who probably are confused with what the heck the Multiverse actually is.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Just now, Edmilson said:

Actually, time will tell that the most influential production of the social media era is Rick and Morty. The show had a penchant to take stuff that used to be known only by the nerdiest of nerds (specifically the concept of Multiverses) and push them to the extreme, which actually ended up bringing them to the forefront of pop culture, influencing both blockbusters (MCU, DCU) and arthouse movies (EEAAO).

 

Everything Everywhere is the crossover between Rick and Morty and independent arthouse cinema, making it the ideal pop culture creation for the young millennial who binged R&M in the years before. What actually surprises me is that it also convinced the older Academy voters, who probably are confused with what the heck the Multiverse actually is.

I'm convinced most of them gave it to Everything in order to stay relevant to TikTok teens

[Tydirium 1,166]

Simon Franglen wrote a brief Twitter thread on his thoughts regarding Best Original Score:

 

 

[leeallen01 2,133]

He's likely just being nice about it. 

 

He also commented on Erik's new podcast episode shitting on the All Quiet score and the Oscars themselves haha.

 

It's a great episode btw, where Erik talks about the utterly hilariously stupid application and selection process for the Oscars Score category, and why the oscars are garbage.

 

 

 

[Jay 37,317]

Anyone else think it was weird that the In Memorium segment omitted Chaim Topol, Philip Baker Hall, Tom Sizemore, Fred Ward, Paul Sorvino, Tony Sirico, Anne Heche, and Charlbi Dean?

[Bespin 8,480]

Their Member card were past due.

[Yavar Moradi 2,590]

Franglen is a SUPER nice guy. But people’s problems with All Quiet aren’t that it has too few notes, but ARE about what the composer DOES with those notes. Here is a great podcast episode discussing all the nominees and starting with that one, and why it’s so frustrating it was even nominated:

https://spotify.link/8JTFH4r89xb

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/settling-the-score/id1293855553

 

Yavar

[Tallguy 3,379]

46 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone else think it was weird that the In Memorium segment omitted Chaim Topol, Philip Baker Hall, Tom Sizemore, Fred Ward, Paul Sorvino, Tony Sirico, Anne Heche, and Charlbi Dean?

 

Topol and Sizemore were very recent, no? But for the rest of them? Yeah, that's a big chunk to miss. Especially Sorvino.

 

 

Awwww. They included Greg Jein. *sniff*

[Jay 37,317]

Just now, Tallguy said:

Topol and Sizemore were very recent, no?

 

How does that matter?

[Tallguy 3,379]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

How does that matter?

 

I don't know what the lead time is.

[Richard Penna 3,674]

I'd have thought it was obvious why it matters... the video has to be done by a certain date, so if someone dies after that, tough.

 

Not an issue with those who died months ago, clearly but I'm sure I've read that the Memoriam section is as politically complicated as all the other bits.

[Jay 37,317]

In 2023 I'm sure it's easy to re-edit a video like this to still fit the song length 

[Bespin 8,480]

Sorry we can't change nothing to the In Memoriam segment, it takes months to edit!

[enderdrag64 624]

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

He's likely just being nice about it. 

 

He also commented on Erik's new podcast episode shitting on the All Quiet score and the Oscars themselves haha.

 

Yeah I think this is probably the case:

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

8 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Simon Franglen wrote a brief Twitter thread on his thoughts regarding Best Original Score:

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

How does that matter?

 

Is it possible that they only list deaths that occurred during the same date range a film would have to be released during to qualify?

 

Not sure how that works.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

Were all those people part of the Academy? Because otherwise they won't be in the In Memorian

[King Mark 3,626]

Maybe they have diversity quotas for the memoriam and adding those people would have messed up the numbers!

[Jay 37,317]

11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Is it possible that they only list deaths that occurred during the same date range a film would have to be released during to qualify?

 

Not sure how that works.

 

It's just people who died since the last ceremony

 

For example Raquel Welch was included, and she died on February 15, 2023, while the ceremony honored films released in calendar year 2022

 

The people I mentioned who were not included died on:

 

Chaim Topol March 8 2023

Philip Baker Hall June 12 2022

Tom Sizemore March 3 2023

Fred Ward May 8 2022

Paul Sorvino July 25 2022

Tony Sirico July 8 2022

Anne Heche Aug 11 2022

Charlbi Dean August 29 2022

 

None of those people are going to be included next year.

[Richard Penna 3,674]

Perhaps the section needs to be under a certain length and they have to decide on less prominent people to not include?

 

7 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Maybe they have diversity quotas for the memoriam and adding those people would have messed up the numbers!

 

Must you see absolutely everything through that filter?

[King Mark 3,626]

4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Must you see absolutely everything through that filter?

it's not my fault

 

https://www.oscars.org/news/academy-establishes-representation-and-inclusion-standards-oscarsr-eligibility

[Jay 37,317]

It's become insufferably annoying to read any posts he makes these days because he only ever talks about one thing.

 

The man who used to give interesting insight into the movies he watched, the scores he listened to, and the games he played, as well as interesting stories about his personal life including his dating adventures, has now become the old man who yells at a cloud about the same thing over and over again and does nothing else here.

What a waste.

[Faleel 5,340]

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

The man who used to give interesting insight into the movies he watched, the scores he listened to, and the games he played, as well as interesting stories about his personal life including the people in his building, has now become the old man who yells at a cloud about the same thing over and over again and does nothing else here.

What a waste.

[King Mark 3,626]

Alright, I'll try to be more careful from now on.

[Tydirium 1,166]

23 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

It's just people who died since the last ceremony

 

For example Raquel Welch was included, and she died on February 15, 2023, while the ceremony honored films released in calendar year 2022

 

The people I mentioned who were not included died on:

 

Chaim Topol March 8 2023

Philip Baker Hall June 12 2022

Tom Sizemore March 3 2023

Fred Ward May 8 2022

Paul Sorvino July 25 2022

Tony Sirico July 8 2022

Anne Heche Aug 11 2022

Charlbi Dean August 29 2022

 

None of those people are going to be included next year.

 

Apparently the Academy issued a statement about it:

 

https://www.today.com/popculture/awards/oscars-in-memoriam-segment-2023-backlash-rcna74691

 

Seems the official reason is that they get so many submissions for the segment, they can't possibly include them all...

[leeallen01 2,133]

Reminds me of that Ricky Gervais joke at 3:05

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

 

[Richard Penna 3,674]

That video will be controversial 

 

Crowd pleasing at 4:25 then... very much not 10 seconds later. I don't agree at all with 'phoned in', but I do agree with everything he says after that.

[Romão 2,274]

His comments on the Accidental Tourist and Cinderella Liberty are absolutely idiotic. This sort of Youtuber have been popping up like mushrooms, latelty

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

My only problem is that he doesn't listen to any bits of Fabelmans score. He would have discovered at least an interesting thing or two to comment on the piano.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

For him John Williams' film music is just about iconic themes.

But If he puts on that measure, why not admit, that this was the only of the five nominated scores that had something like a memorable theme?

But apart from that I can follow his argumentation.

[Tydirium 1,166]

Man, I really can't stand when YouTubers do these abrupt cuts between multiple takes (or otherwise awkwardly take out space in-between words so that everything sounds too close together). Is it a stylistic thing, or are they really that incapable of correctly saying a complete sentence??

[Richard Penna 3,674]

3 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

My only problem is that he doesn't listen to any bits of Fabelmans score. He would have discovered at least an interesting thing or two to comment on the piano.

 

He doesn't play any of it in the video but he's obviously listened to it.

 

I'll always strongly disagree about 'phoning in' on any score because I don't personally believe composers do that - if the film ends up being a bit uninspiring, the vibe I get is that the composer tries to see what they can do to help it, musically. They know their fans will be hearing the music conceptually.

 

But I think his comments right after (see below) are a perfect summation, particularly in relation to an academy looking to award a composer for their best work:

 

Quote

Of the iconic themes that JW has written throughout his career, I just don't see this as being one that's particularly memorable

 

 

3 hours ago, Romão said:

His comments on the Accidental Tourist and Cinderella Liberty are absolutely idiotic. This sort of Youtuber have been popping up like mushrooms, latelty

 

He's asking whether someone who is probably not as completely versed in the works of John Williams as we are, has listened to two of his least known scores. I don't think it's an unreasonable comment in the slightest.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Is this that same asshole who thought a chord in Rogue One "saved Star Wars"?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

On 14/03/2023 at 5:21 PM, Richard Penna said:

Perhaps the section needs to be under a certain length and they have to decide on less prominent people to not include?

 

Release the C&C cut!