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THE ACOLYTE - 2024 Star Wars TV


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25 minutes ago, Brock Lovett said:

Anyone else think the only good Disney Lucasfilm show was that ILM docuseries?


Nah. Mandalorian started very strong. 
 

I thought the ILM thing was a bit overrated, and I’d never rewatch it. 

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12 minutes ago, Unlucky Bastard said:

Huh. I'm not sure I understood all of that, Chief Sterns. Would you mind repeating it, in English, perhaps?

 

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52 minutes ago, Brock Lovett said:

Anyone else think the only good Disney Lucasfilm show was that ILM docuseries?

It's not the only good show but it's by far my favorite. Probably the best star wars related documentary ever put out, honestly.

 

27 minutes ago, Andy said:

I thought the ILM thing was a bit overrated, and I’d never rewatch it. 

What didn't you like about it?

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35 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

I guess I've been operating on the notion that if I find myself getting into more well established properties, that it'll just leave me becoming bitter eventually.


Remember when there was no internet, and all we had were congenially written—though strongly opinionated, to be sure!—fan letters and editorials in newsletters, fanzines, etc.? Becoming "bitter" wasn't a worry back then.

 

But it's actually easy to live like that again... Just unplug.*

 

 

 

 

*easier to say than to do

 

 

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Fair question.  I’m having a tough time answering it because it didn’t really stick with me.   I of course have nothing but respect for those pioneers, but I found the trajectory of the doc to be predictable and sort of common knowledge.   The stuff with Phil Tippet was compelling. 

3 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

It's not the only good show but it's by far my favorite. Probably the best star wars related documentary ever put out, honestly.

 

What didn't you like about it?

 

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See, I thought Tippett brought it down ever so slightly, but I've found him just a ridiculous guy since he was featured in the JP documentaries over the years. The notion that his completely fake looking stop motion was going to be featured in JP at any point is simply ludicrous. I've always thought even since I was a kid that this story was totally fabricated for The Making of Jurassic Park.

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2 minutes ago, Andy said:

Fair question.  I’m having a tough time answering it because it didn’t really stick with me.   I of course have nothing but respect for those pioneers, but I found the trajectory of the doc to be predictable and sort of common knowledge.   The stuff with Phil Tippet was compelling. 

 

Ah okay. Yeah it is a story that's been told many times, but I appreciated the willingness to talk about it in depth, it was surprising how uncorporate it felt (at least the first 3 episodes) - especially with stuff like Tippet's heartfelt story, and the interpersonal drama of the crew members. Getting to hear about John Dykstra's firing from both Dyktra and Lucas was fascinating to say the least. 

 

I will say I felt the second half of the show was substantially less interesting once it started rushing through projects, and by the last episode it was just a marketing fluff piece for modern Disney projects, but those first 3 episodes were more than worth it.

 

Another thing I really appreciated was the length, and the slow editing. They really focused on letting the crew tell the story. I appreciated that it managed to be coherent even though there wasn't a narrator. It was a night and day contrast with Icons Unearthed, which came out around the same time - that show gave me a headache with it's blazing fast trailer-like editing, heavy reliance on a biased narrator, and multiple interviewees who didn't even have anything to do with the production 

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10 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

 Getting to hear about John Dykstra's firing from both Dyktra and Lucas was fascinating to say the least. 


YES.  That was quite good to let that story be told from both sides.  Another excellent highlight. 

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1 minute ago, Bellosh said:

Only star wars I watch that isn't 1-6 is the making of the prequels documentaries. So good.

I'll always stand up for both Clone Wars shows, but yes, those are great documentaries. There was a time in my life I watched them on repeat.

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The only documentary I need...

 

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From Star Wars to Jedi, the fascinating saga behind the saga will make your video library complete. They're unlike anything in our galaxy.

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1 hour ago, Davis said:

That would be EMPIRE OF DREAMS. THE definitive Star Wars documentary.

 

That documentary is such a trumpet to Lucas' tendentious rhetoric, its almost unbelieveable. There's not three sentences in a row where not one of them is dubious to say the least.

 

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10 hours ago, Brock Lovett said:

Anyone else think the only good Disney Lucasfilm show was that ILM docuseries?

 

Probably. But not me.

 

9 hours ago, Brock Lovett said:

See, I thought Tippett brought it down ever so slightly, but I've found him just a ridiculous guy since he was featured in the JP documentaries over the years. The notion that his completely fake looking stop motion was going to be featured in JP at any point is simply ludicrous. I've always thought even since I was a kid that this story was totally fabricated for The Making of Jurassic Park.

 

Why? Before there was the technology that made JP he was the undisputed master of creature animation. You can look back now and say that it was inevitable somehow. I guess.

 

But before they came up with the CG tech that they did how else were they going to do it? Also imagine that level of perfection applied to Tippet's work? I'll still take Vermithrax Pejorative over, say Smaug any day of the week. He's still the perfect dragon.

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I don’t know, I think I know a thing or two about the production history of the OT and I still enjoy EoD a lot. 

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1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

Why? Before there was the technology that made JP he was the undisputed master of creature animation. You can look back now and say that it was inevitable somehow. I guess.

 

Undisputed? He was in his time, at his apex, perhaps. But even Tippet would credit Harryhausen as the master.

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1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

He was in his time, at his apex, perhaps. But even Tippet would credit Harryhausen as the master.

 

And Williams thought Schindler's List needed a better composer. (Have you heard that one by chance?)

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I don't think that's analogous at all, that's just JW's usual modesty. Ray Harryhausen was a pioneer (and mentor of Tippets). Tippet took it to the next level, to be sure, but Harryhausen was the groundbreaker, no one really disputes that, including Tippet.

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There's no way PT's stop motion was ever seriously going to be used in JP. Dennis Muren knew what they had at the time, GL knew, Spielberg knew, otherwise the movie wouldn't have gone into production. I'm sure his work was valuable as a reference for animators and as basically animatics, but it was never seriously considered. I'll never buy it.

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4 minutes ago, Brock Lovett said:

There's no way PT's stop motion was ever seriously going to be used in JP. Dennis Muren knew what they had at the time, GL knew, Spielberg knew, otherwise the movie wouldn't have gone into production.


I’m by no means an expert on the production history of Jurassic Park, but it may well be that the Eureka moment was indeed less of a Eureka moment than we’ve been led to believe.

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3 hours ago, Unlucky Bastard said:

Empire of Dreams is alright if you're a complete novice on SW production history and want a quick primer.

 

I think even a complete novice, if they're at all attentive viewers, would be able to tell from watching the films that Lucas comment below is totally bogus: "It got to be a very fat script, about 200 pages, and the story had gotten away from me. So the only way I could sort of cope with it was to say 'I'll take the first third, the first act, and I'll turn that into a movie.'"

 

Beyond all the historical proof that can be brought against this argument, what ultimately falsifies it is that, had Star Wars been hatched out of one "Ur"-screenplay, it would feel far, far more organically of-a-piece than how it actually plays out.

 

There's simplifying or gussying things up somewhat and there's creaky memory at work, but this is nothing of the kind: its willful, deliberate obfustication of the truth to a ludicrous degree.

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It was a SW Trilogy DVD release tie-in TV special that doubled as the one main bonus feature they could put on that set.

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26 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I think even a complete novice, if they're at all attentive viewers, would be able to tell from watching the films that Lucas comment below is totally bogus: "It got to be a very fat script, about 200 pages, and the story had gotten away from me. So the only way I could sort of cope with it was to say 'I'll take the first third, the first act, and I'll turn that into a movie.'"

 

Beyond all the historical proof that can be brought against this argument, what ultimately falsifies it is that, had Star Wars been hatched out of one "Ur"-screenplay, it would feel far, far more organically of-a-piece than how it actually plays out.

 

There's simplifying or gussying things up somewhat and there's creaky memory at work, but this is nothing of the kind: its willful, deliberate obfustication of the truth to a ludicrous degree.

 

Oh you're mad if you think normies are as nerdy as that.

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Another thing about Tippett that annoys me is he acts like such a stereotypical boomer using interviews to air grievances and make it all about him and how he's a victim forced out by these kids with computers. Grouchy old man.

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Didnt spielberg/universal buy the JP novel rights before the novel was even released? 
 

Thats before 1990. Definately around that time Stop motion was more feasible than CGI. I mean, Tippet maybe was in preproduction years before T2 was released.

 

i wonder how tippets finished effects would have looked on film. The rancor in 1983 was already very credible. And the jurassic tippet demos look more alive and photoreal than the running gallimimus skelletons…

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32 minutes ago, Brock Lovett said:

Another thing about Tippett that annoys me is he acts like such a stereotypical boomer using interviews to air grievances and make it all about him and how he's a victim forced out by these kids with computers. Grouchy old man.

 

He's extinct. 

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I used to watch Empire of Dreams all the time as a kid so it does have a special place in my heart. I'll agree with what @Chen G.said that it does have some revisionism in it, but it's not enough to spoil the whole doc for me. The only sad part of it to me is I wish it was longer; they definitely could've had 2-3 hours worth of content per film.

 

That said, the only other part of EOD that annoys me is the technical aspect, primarily that they cropped all of the making of footage from 4:3 to 16:9 and that the film clips used Special Edition footage even though they were talking about the making of the unaltered original 

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This one is relatively free of the kind of pretentions that were to afflict later forays into documenting the making of these films.

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2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

There's only one documentary about the making of Star Wars and that's The Making of Star Wars.

 

 

 

The thing that annoys me about these older docs, it applies to basically all of them, is a huge part of their runtime is made of film clips, a lot of the time not even of star wars. I think it's a symptom of the less sophisticated editing tools available, but it's a huge waste of runtime.

 

Like that segment from 5:40-7:10 should've been at most 5 or 10 seconds.

 

This doc isn't as severe as some of the other ones; the BBC Star Wars music one does it a lot too, huge parts of that doc are just unedited clips from How to Steal a Million, ESB, Jane Eyre and Images

 

I'd rather see more making of footage and interviews

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