THE ACOLYTE - 2024 Star Wars TV

[SilverTrumpet 645]

Why'd they play the Kylo Ren music at the end?

[bored 564]

Temp track? 

[Manakin Skywalker 5,644]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

I think you're just looking in the wrong places. There's nothing wrong with YouTube as a platform for film criticism...it's actually a very good platform for such a thing, if you think about it. The content and form of the criticism itself is another thing, but that goes for any YouTube channel (or podcast for that matter) on any topic. Some are superb and some are absolute rubbish.  There's a lot of rage/clickbait YouTubers spouting off on film, to be sure, but there's a lot of thoughtful stuff out there as well.

 

Just avoid thumbnails that look like this and you're good 

 

[Schilkeman 1,442]

9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I'm surprised you deigned to watch it: I sure didn't.

 

More and more I find YouTube to not be the ideal platform for film criticism. Whenever someone sends a YouTube review my way I mostly just groan.

It’s the first video of theirs I’ve watched in 10 years. It was just a whim really. I don’t need to agree with them, and I don’t like the show either, but I thought they might have learned a few things about textual analysis or art criticism in the intervening years. Unfortunately, it’s the same jabbering-head shallowness they’ve always featured. Fool me once, I suppose.

 

I wouldn’t care at all, but so many people hold them up as an example of good, thoughtful criticism. 

 

There is outstanding YouTube art criticism. Watch a game "review" by Tim Rogers and everyone else looks like dipshit amateurs, but that level of quality is few and far between.

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

3 hours ago, Andy said:

I liked Ep 5 because it had lazer swords and deaths and twists. Good enough. But just enough.  
 

These Star Wars shows could use some wit and humor.  That was originally part of the formula. Andor, Kenobi, Ahsoka, Acolyte… they all take themselves way too seriously.  There were a few unintentionally funny moments in this one.

We need an Ewok fighter pilot with leg extensions.

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Just avoid thumbnails that look like this and you're good 

 

Link, please. 

[Schilkeman 1,442]

13 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I can't believe I'm bothering to ask this of someone who considers Attack of the Clones the #1 greatest Star Wars film, but... what basic facts did they get wrong, exactly?

I can't believe I'm bothering to answer someone who thinks First Contact is a bad Star Trek film, but...

 

"The Jedi aren't allowed to have crazy ranges of emotion."

 

This whole thing is a good read, but I've highlighted the salient information. We see Jedi express a broad range of emotions throughout the films, but many people confuse emotional regulation with emotional suppression, and assume the Jedi don't feel at all. This is inaccurate, as watching the films demonstrates.

 

"Use the force to make a force baby to take down the Jedi because of prophecy nonsense."

 

The prophecy was to bring balance to the Force, not defeat the Jedi, and no, defeating the Jedi does not bring balance to the Force. It isn't about numbers vs numbers. It's more like getting rid of an illness. The illness is the dark side.

 

"The Jedi can't get all gay, because the Jedi can't be loved"...."celibacy doesn't mean a lack of attraction."

 

Jedi aren't celibate. There's a whole arc in TCW dealing with Obi-Wan's past relationship with Satine Kryze of Mandalore. The central plot of the prequels is about Padme and Anakin. Jedi can, and demonstrably do, love and can be loved by others. What they can't do, and continue being a Jedi, is form lasting attachments.

 

None of this would matter really, except that RLM have built so much of their criticism for the prequels out of this sort of faulty reading and fact checking, and have hoodwinked a whole generation of YouTube users into thinking this stuff is good, thoughtful analysis.

 

Having an aesthetic dislike of the prequels is fine by me. They are heavily stylized, and not for everyone, and I don't mind if people find the philosophies expressed in the films distasteful, but if we're going to criticize the characteristics and actions of the characters, the contrivances of the plot, or the quality of the world-building, let's criticize what's actually there, not what we think is there.

[Hego-Damask-II 65]

On 26/06/2024 at 11:12 AM, Mr. Hooper said:

That's all well and good, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth—especially the Jedi being basically portrayed as oppressors, and the authors trying to corrupt the moral simplicity of 'Star Wars' by saying, "Look, it's not so black and white anymore. It's shades of grey now, to reflect our modern times."

 

Does that not follow from the similarities to the Knights Templar they were given in the prequels? That's not a modern concept, by any means.

[Yavar Moradi 3,542]

12 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

I can't believe I'm bothering to answer someone who thinks First Contact is a bad Star Trek film, but...

 

Well, thanks for the reply anyway, I guess...

 

12 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

"The Jedi aren't allowed to have crazy ranges of emotion."

 

This whole thing is a good read, but I've highlighted the salient information. We see Jedi express a broad range of emotions throughout the films, but many people confuse emotional regulation with emotional suppression, and assume the Jedi don't feel at all. This is inaccurate, as watching the films demonstrates.

 

And right off the bat I feel like you're splitting hairs in the extreme, just to dismiss popular reviewers who hate something you love. Sure the Jedi have emotions in the prequels, but they are all *extremely* (and weirdly) regulated, as you say. And someone saying that crazy ranges of emotion are discouraged (to say the least) among the Jedi is completely accurate. When even your Jedi character played by SAMUEL J. JACKSON is strangely monotone most of the time, something is weirdly boring and unengaged.

 

When placed in sharp contrast with Palpatine (McDiarmid is really the only actor in the prequels to really let loose effectively), it almost makes it seem like the Sith embrace emotion in general, while the Jedi attempt to, yes, suppress it (which actually doesn't mean they "don't feel at all"; see Star Trek's Spock -- the Nimoy version, of course) and part of that is by forbidding them to have attachments.

 

13 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

"Use the force to make a force baby to take down the Jedi because of prophecy nonsense."

 

The prophecy was to bring balance to the Force, not defeat the Jedi, and no, defeating the Jedi does not bring balance to the Force. It isn't about numbers vs numbers. It's more like getting rid of an illness. The illness is the dark side.

 

Yeah they were drawing an imperfect comparison between the prequels Anakin and the twins at the heart of The Acolyte, but I'm pretty sure this is just goofing-around speculation about the present show. Is this really the best you can do, in terms of taking them down "factually"?

 

But while we're at it, that stupid prophecy and the virgin birth BS was easily one of my most hated elements of the prequels (which is saying something). There was absolutely ZERO good reason to go that way and turn Anakin Skywalker into some kind of weird prophesied messiah figure. It was much much better when Anakin Skywalker was just one of many Jedi Knights, but one who went down a dark path due to external circumstances. Gosh, even though Filoni valiantly attempted to redeem the prequels with his superior series, do I miss the time pre-prequels when the Clone Wars were something totally different...

 

13 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

"The Jedi can't get all gay, because the Jedi can't be loved"...."celibacy doesn't mean a lack of attraction."

 

Jedi aren't celibate. There's a whole arc in TCW dealing with Obi-Wan's past relationship with Satine Kryze of Mandalore. The central plot of the prequels is about Padme and Anakin. Jedi can, and demonstrably do, love and can be loved by others. What they can't do, and continue being a Jedi, is form lasting attachments.

 

Again, they were joking around in that bit, tone wise, so it comes across like you really reaching to find a "factually inaccurate" part of a lengthy and substantive video that covers a lot of actual facts. So your strong argument is that Jedi are technically allowed to have one-night stands or... short-term relationships? (Frankly, seems like even those are discouraged. Anakin and Padme both act like them having sex even once is a big deal and totally forbidden or at least strongly frowned upon, even though they are consenting adults.)

 

Also, you keep acting like RLM is supposed to care about TCW. They haven't seen TCW and don't care about it as far as I know. They analyze the live action prequel films based on what's in THEM, independent of animated series spinoffs and comics and novels ("canon" or otherwise).

 

As for the "central plot of the prequels", I think it's a jumbled and confused mess of different things. If I'm generous I'll say the central plot is about how a Republic descends into an authoritarian Empire. But if you really think the central *plot* of the prequels is the interminably painful Padme/Anakin drama, ... just, wow. I'm so awestruck I don't even know what to say except... I guess that's why Attack of the Clones is your favorite, even though it's by far the most widely reviled Star Wars film (at least until Rise of Skywalker came around, lol). That's the only one of the three where I think their relationship is even focused on (oh so painfully) at any length. They've got like maybe a scene or two interacting together ("Are you an angel?" -- OMG) in Phantom Menace and Portman is barely present in Revenge of the Sith (as little screen time as possible, really).

 

Yavar

[Jay 42,358]

The Acolyte 1x04 Day

 

I liked this episode too!  The biggest bummer is that they find the wookiee Jedi dead before we get to see him be a wookiee badass Jedi really.  Maybe we'll see something in a future flashback?  The weird moth things were kinda cool; Pretty much just large bugs but at least it wasn't something they had to make with bad CGI.  The new character Bazil was great!  I loved the way he was moved and interacted with people and everything.  I wasn't expecting Mae to give up on her mission so easily, seemed too quick of a turn of character.  But I guess we were meant to believe that she thought Osha was dead this whole time too, so she's just coming to terms with that?  I don't really get why her master killed her target for her; Does he want these 4 Jedi dead too? I thought it was just something he was having her do for her own sake.  It was pretty cool when he showed up and rushed the Jedi, but damn, the episode's over right then!  These episodes are so short!

[HunterTech 1,502]

While I have gotten really into watching a whole lot of RLM in the past month or so, I still haven't watched a full Plinkett review in ages. It's a style of presentation that I struggle with, despite length never being an issue elsewhere. I think it's the dissonance between the crass jokes and the legitimate commentary that gets me, since it almost ends up feeling like a Family Guy cutaway in many instances, when I'd rather we stay on the analysis. That, and the purposefully disgusting aspect of it just doesn't quite appeal in the same way their other stuff does, so I can't say I'm too much of a fan there.

 

I guess I really do need Jay and Rich to balance things out.

[Andy 5,949]

While I enjoyed Ep 5 “Night” I had to Google “cortosis” to understand what the hell was going on with the lightsabers. 
 

Don’t make me have to do that, Star Wars. 

[Toillion 386]

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wasn't expecting Mae to give up on her mission so easily, seemed too quick of a turn of character.  But I guess we were meant to believe that she thought Osha was dead this whole time too, so she's just coming to terms with that? 

I was confused by her change in thought also. I was trying to come up with a few reasons but they don't really make sense as to why. 

• Revenge for Family: my initial impression was that Mae was hunting down the Jedi because she believed the Jedi were responsible for killing her family, not the fire. If that's the case, Osha being alive doesn't change her reason for being mad at the Jedi.

• Misunderstood Motivation: Another possibility is that Mae thought the Jedi killed Osha. However, this seems inconsistent because Mae also tried to kill Osha on the same day. Therefore, being mad at the Jedi for Osha's supposed death doesn't quite add up.

• Blame on Jedi's Presence: The last reason could be that Mae is angry at the Jedi for causing the conflict just by being there. However, this also seems illogical for a change in heart seeing Osha alive. Osha wanted to leave before the Jedi's arrival and the rest of their family is still dead as a result.

If her seeing Osha alive cause this then why did she still travel to the next Jedi? Maybe she is just tired of doing it and doesn't care anymore but that seems like lazy writing. Perhaps we will see more details about this in the last few episodes. 

[Jay 42,358]

I took it that it was the walk through the jungle to get to the wookiee guy that allowed her to have enough time with her thoughts and ponder everything, and realize she didn't want to kill him any more.

 

But yeah maybe she never wanted to kill the 4 Jedi for herself, maybe it was entirely her master's idea and she was following his orders because she really wants to be his apprentice?

[Schilkeman 1,442]

On 27/6/2024 at 12:00 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Well, thanks for the reply anyway, I guess...

Don't give it out if you can't take it.

 

On 27/6/2024 at 12:00 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

but they are all *extremely* (and weirdly) regulated, as you say.

I don’t think that’s accurate to what we see in the films. Obi-Wan shows anger, fear, sadness, despair, concern, happiness, and love. Did you read any of the links I sent? There's good stuff in there about all of this. Again, emotional suppression and emotional regulation are not the same. Your Spock analogy doesn’t work because we actively see Spock practicing emotional suppression.

 

Also, I think painting someone as weird who expresses emotion in a way you see as abnormal is a narrow and problematic view.

 

On 27/6/2024 at 12:00 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

but I'm pretty sure this is just goofing-around speculation about the present show. Is this really the best you can do, in terms of taking them down "factually"?

They're always goofing around. They use jokes as criticism, so to dismiss their attempts at humor would be to dismiss their criticism entirely. For it to be funny, it would need to be true, which it isn't, therefore factually inaccurate (and factually unfunny). False assumptions lead to false conclusions.

 

On 27/6/2024 at 12:00 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Also, you keep acting like RLM is supposed to care about TCW.

I only brought up TCW once, and offered a counter example in the films as I knew an argument would be made that TCW stuff "isn't in the movies," but if they care enough to do reviews of Star Wars, they should care about TCW. It would be like dismissing the appendices in LotR, but that would require them to engage with material they clearly don't like and can't be bothered to think about.

 

This is part of my larger point about them. I knew that Phantom Menace review was trouble the minute Plinkett starts mumbling about how there should be a "protoganist" and then dismisses the two most prominent protagonists because they don't fit his arbitrary "everyman" criteria. Last I checked, Gilgamesh was a king. I suppose we can criticize any film if we just ignore it completely and play Calvinball with narrative "rules."

 

On 27/6/2024 at 12:00 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

As for the "central plot of the prequels", I think it's a jumbled and confused mess of different things.

Not liking the plot is not the same as it being a mess. It is, as you say, about how a republic turns into a dictatorship, but on a personal level, how a good person turns evil. The love story is the most important part of Anakin's fall. You have repeated the statement that the plot of the prequels is "nonsense." I have asked for examples. I follow it just fine, and have made many, many profoundly dumb decisions in my life. It can't be that oblique. Also, Padme is in more of Sith than you remember. Off the top of my head, she's in eight prolonged scenes in a very dense movie, all of which deal with her relationship to Anakin.

 

 

 

I've been a fan of these films since they came out, and have engaged with criticisms verbatim to yours for the same amount of time. I have spent way too much time thinking about them, and an inadvisable amount of time debating about them, but I also think the plots and character motivations are logical, and hold up to scrutiny.

 

I also think people get distracted by the aesthetic parts of the films they don't like (dialog, acting, etc) and go looking for evidence of a deeper failure. There's nothing wrong with disliking a film for those reasons. I dislike most Cameron movies because he is, in fact, the worst writer of dialog.

 

I've yet to see compelling evidence that the prequels don't work as intended—we see how and why the Republic falls, and how and why Anakin falls, delivered with whizz-bang action, and a veneer of pulp serial, cinematic homage, and variegated philosophy—exactly what it says on the tin. Whether that intent works for you is a different question.

[Nick1Ø66 6,741]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

walk through the jungle to get to the wookiee guy that allowed her to have enough time with her thoughts and ponder everything, and realize she didn't want to kill him any more.

Ladies and gentlemen, Star Wars 2024.

[GerateWohl 5,918]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

ut yeah maybe she never wanted to kill the 4 Jedi for herself, maybe it was entirely her master's idea and she was following his orders because she really wants to be his apprentice?

I understood that Mae's motivation for killing the jedi was revenge for the death of her sister.

And in the moment she saw, that her sister was still alive that motivation vanished.

And I understood it that way, that her master told her, that the jedi killed her sister and motivated her to take revenge.

So, she knew he was liing, but was still afraid to give up her mission, because she was afraid, that her master would kill her, if she gave up her mission.

So, to me her motivations were quite clear and made sense.

[Edmilson 10,434]

Another weird thing this show has introduced to Star Wars canon: the Wookiee Jedi wears clothes. Does tha mean Chewbacca was naked this whole time?!

 

[GerateWohl 5,918]

Maybe ĥe is shaved under the dress.

[Toillion 386]

12 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Another weird thing this show has introduced to Star Wars canon: the Wookiee Jedi wears clothes. Does tha mean Chewbacca was naked this whole time?!

 

 

[Edmilson 10,434]

[Jay 42,358]

The Acolyte 1x05 Night

 

Wow!  That was certainly the most exciting episode of the season by a country mile.  I was amazed at how many different lightsaber battles this one episode had, just constantly different characters fighting each other, sometimes 1 on 1, sometimes 2 on 1, etc.  It was all really cool!  The biggest bummer was that the entire cast of good guys was killed off except Osha, Sol, and my new favorite character Bazil; I had really thought Jecki would be the breakout character that might get her own show after this, but I guess not!

 

I have to say, I did not see the twist that Mae's master is Qimir coming.  It was probably helped that I watched episode 5 right after episode 4 so didn't have a week to ponder things, nor have I read one thing about this show online or here (outside of responses to what I said about the episodes), so yeah, they got me. I think its a good twist, and will make a rewatch fun some day (if the show ends up being worth rewatching).  What's not a good twist is Mae and Osha switching places; OK, the IDEA Of it is fine (and completely expected that they'd do this eventually), but the execution of that twist made NO sense.  One lightsaber swipe cutting her hair perfectly is the most laughable thing I've seen in a Star Wars show, plus wouldn't she smell like burnt hair now?  And what did she do with the piles of hair that came off? But also, Sol spent enough time with Osha that he would of course be able to tell that Mae wasn't Osha, even without Jedi mind powers to read her mind and tell that.  WTF!?   I hope they don't use her lack of an arm tattoo to give it away...

 

So yeah, enjoying the show overall, but the silly moments that could have been avoided sure are starting to pile up.

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

One lightsaber swipe cutting her hair perfectly is the most laughable thing I've seen in a Star Wars show,

Not that defends it or anything.

[Jay 42,358]

I've never seen an animated star wars show

[GerateWohl 5,918]

21 minutes ago, Jay said:

One lightsaber swipe cutting her hair perfectly is the most laughable thing I've seen in a Star Wars show,

It was already laughable when Sabine did almost the same in Ashoka. She didn't use a lightsaber. But she also created perfectly her old Rebels haircut with just one swipe of her knife.

[Andy 5,949]

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

I hope they don't use her lack of an arm tattoo to give it away...

I think we both know the trajectory of the reveal. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,814]

47 minutes ago, Jay said:

I've never seen an animated star wars show

The 2d one is fun, avoid the 3d one like the plague

[Toillion 386]

57 minutes ago, Jay said:

I hope they don't use her lack of an arm tattoo to give it away...

There is also the marking on her forehead. Thats how it was revealed to the Jedi in episode one. Even though the audience didn’t know that at the time. 

[Nick1Ø66 6,741]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I've never seen an animated star wars show

I saw the Clone Wars movie, and that was enough.

 

Not slamming the animated shows mind you, I hear the Clone Wars series and some of the other ones are excellent. Just not really my thing.

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

One lightsaber swipe cutting her hair perfectly is the most laughable thing I've seen in a Star Wars show

 

Really?

 

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

[Edmilson 10,434]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I saw the Clone Wars movie, and that was enough.

 

Not slamming the animated shows mind you, I hear the Clone Wars series and some of the other ones are excellent. Just not really my thing.

 

 

Really?

 

 

 

A friend of mine said: I am definitely saddened to see entertainment in general sinking to this level. It's like nobody cares about stories or great visuals anymore. And by that I mean the creators, not the fans. Fans still love a great story. Fans still love a movie that just looks so fantastic. Fans still want characters that are compelling; that they can laugh with and cry with. Something is wrong with the "creative" people who make the entertainment. They have no real creativity at all. The use worn out clichés that they tell themselves are still fresh. They get bigger and bigger budgets with smaller and smaller results. And worst of all, when fans call them out for it, they simply deny that the fans have any right to complain, and that the complainers are simply r----t and s----t trolls who shouldn't be listened to. I believe that there are totally people like that in the fans of entertainment--who just hate because it, it what they do--but the way media creators have started getting in the habit of dismissing all criticism as, "It's just trolls, don't listen to them!" is not good. From what I have heard, Disney has not made enough money to cover the cost of buying Lucasfilm. That alone should be a red flag that something needs to change. I am not sure who it is that they are listening to that tells them to just keep going with what they are doing...

 

The pinned comment from the video you posted. And I agree 100% with it.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,644]

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

[Jay 42,358]

Yeah I didn't think the witches stuff was nearly as bad or cringe or whatever as you all seemingly did. It was just like, a short bit in an episode, not a big deal

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

(Just seemed a funny time to use this)

[HunterTech 1,502]

It's got the energy of a high school theatre production that didn't want to bother with remembering the original chanting that the text had. It'd be cute in that sort of context, yet rather strange in such a high profile production. Was it something they came up with on the spot? It's just too fascinating to dismiss as mere cringe.

[Edmilson 10,434]

I'll just leave this here:

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 6,741]

Seriously, how did we go from Kenobi calling the lightsaber "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age" to using one as hair cutting shears?

 

 

[Jay 42,358]

There's no defending the haircutting, it makes no sense. They should have just had them both have the same do randomly, which I thought they already did until all of a sudden in ep 5 Mae's hair was longer

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Seriously, how did we go from Kenobi calling the lightsaber "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age" to using one as hair cutting shears?

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 6,741]

The Tauntaun thing was a matter of life and death. And most importantly, like the bit in Mulan, it looked cool not stupid. There's a reason no one is mocking or laughing at Mulan or Han Solo.

 

 

 

[Jay 42,358]

4 hours ago, Andy said:

I think we both know the trajectory of the reveal. 

 

As soon as I saw the tattoo in episode 2 I think it was, I figured how it would be used (and hoped I was wrong)

 

3 hours ago, Toillion said:

There is also the marking on her forehead. Thats how it was revealed to the Jedi in episode one. Even though the audience didn’t know that at the time. 

 

The spiral pattern thing? I remember that on young Mae's head in the flashback episode but somehow hadn't noticed it on adult Mae

[Toillion 386]

56 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

The spiral pattern thing? I remember that on young Mae's head in the flashback episode but somehow hadn't noticed it on adult Mae

Yeah. Check out on episode one at an about the 4:50 mark. The Jedi (I can’t remember her name) specifically checks her for that spiral mark. Almost like she expected it to be Mae and not Osha. She also has a confused look on her face. 

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

And worst of all, when fans call them out for it, they simply deny that the fans have any right to complain, and that the complainers are simply r----t and s----t trolls who shouldn't be listened to.

Racist and sexist.

 

Why not spell them out. They're not swear words, and we're all adults here.

[Edmilson 10,434]

There's this thing going all over the internet where potentially controversial words (anything from sex, drugs, crime, death, you name it) are being censored, so people are being extra careful when dealing with sensitive topic.

 

Also, I don't wanna have the same fate as Drax 

 

Speaking of whom, until when will he be banned? I disagreed with him more often than not, both on subject matter that is forbidden here and on our regular movies/TV shows/scores discussions (he's pro-OST and I'm pro-complete and chronological, he's on Team The Phantom Menace and I'm a Matrix diehard), but... I still liked his presence here. He made the forum more entertaining.

[Jay 42,358]

He's banned for a month! I hope he comes back too, and stops breaking rules!

[crumbs 15,495]

5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

From what I have heard, Disney has not made enough money to cover the cost of buying Lucasfilm.

 

I find that hard to believe based on the merchandising profits alone.

 

4 of their 6 films turned a profit (TFA and TLJ the healthiest, TROS and R1 good but not great) while 2 were outright bombs (Solo and DoD). They'd still be ahead though.

 

It's also hard to gauge how profitable these Disney+ shows are when the profits are funneled directly to Disney through subscriptions. I'm not sure how they distribute profits back to Lucasfilm, Pixar, Fox, etc. Presumably that's all calculated off viewership numbers and that determines what future shows and budgets are greenlit.

 

 

[enderdrag64 1,419]

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

I find that hard to believe based on the merchandising profits alone.

 

4 of their 6 films turned a profit (TFA and TLJ the healthiest, TROS and R1 good but not great) while 2 were outright bombs (Solo and DoD). They'd still be ahead though.

 

It's also hard to gauge how profitable these Disney+ shows are when the profits are funneled directly to Disney through subscriptions. I'm not sure how they distribute profits back to Lucasfilm, Pixar, Fox, etc. Presumably that's all calculated off viewership numbers and that determines what future shows and budgets are greenlit.

 

 

Yeah I don't know that there's a way to objectively quantify it with publicly available information, but certainly some shows (The Mandalorian) were more successful than others (Willow)

[crumbs 15,495]

30 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

Yeah I don't know that there's a way to objectively quantify it with publicly available information, but certainly some shows (The Mandalorian) were more successful than others (Willow)

 

There's also the concept of Hollywood accounting at play here, which is even easier now the profits are funnelled through Disney+ and the numbers are invisible.

 

Studios intentionally minimize profits because it reduces their tax bill and residuals owed to various people in the production. According to Lucasfilm, Return of the Jedi "has never gone into profit", despite earning $475 million at the box office against a budget of $32.5 million, so this strategy was alive and kicking long before Disney entered the fray.

 

New Line did the same with Jackson on the LOTR trilogy. Apparently those films made huge losses – this was to deny Jackson his residuals (he sued them accordingly).

 

On the flipside there's tax rebates. Studios inflate budgets and costs to increase the tax rebates earned in certain countries. DoD qualified for a 25.5% UK production rebate in the UK, so the higher accountants were able to portray the budget, the larger the rebate (in that case it was $64.3m). This year Australian taxpayers will fork out millions to cover losses on Furiosa.

 

There's really no benefit for Disney to promote that they're making huge profits off Star Wars, because it just increases their tax and residual obligations. It's no different to claiming losses on your tax return to offset how much tax you owe, except studios are doing it on a much larger scale. And with so many internal studios, it's very easy to "wash" money between each department and manipulate the balance sheet.

 

Mind you, all large corporations do this, it's not exclusive to Hollywood.

[Edmilson 10,434]

Even still, I think it would be quite difficult to calculate how much profit a show on streaming generates.

 

On the good old days that was easier: the more people tuning in a new episode every week, the more the network could charge for the commercial breaks, plus the foreign sales. 

 

But with streaming... On one hand, all the data available to the companies allows them to check which shows are having more views (Mandalorian) and which are not (Willow). It's also important the % of subscribers who follow a season through the end, because if your show attracts a lot of eyeballs on episode 1 but less than half of them by the season finale it's a clear sign that most of the audience didn't care for it (right, Rings of Power?).

 

I've read somewhere that these days this is the metric Netflix is prioritizing the most - if a season doesn't retain a satisfying amount of subscribers by the last episode in a given amount of time, it is less likely that they will renew it.

 

That said, the question remains: are the show generating profits? Imagine a family that subscribes to Disney+ and doesn't cancel it but also didn't see a single episode of The Acolyte. Their subscription goes entirely to Disney which helps them pay for The Acolyte, but they didn't show any interest on the series.

 

So if a group large enough of people still subscribe to Disney+ just for, say, put on some Bluey for the kids and ESPN for the adults, but doesn't watch their pricey Star Wars and Marvel shows... It's a complicated discussion, and of course there's too little information available to us mere mortals and pretty much anyone outside of the upper echelons of Disney.

[Jay 42,358]

I realize what the last 3 episodes need to elevate the show. More and better action and chase scenes.

 

What my favorite Star Wars content (the original movies, Mandalorian, and Andor) all have are a large variety of different types of battle, action, chase and escape scenes. Using different vehicles in different landscapes for different goals. And space stuff! I hope we have some of that in the last 3 episodes instead of just lightsaber battles in samey locations.