THE ACOLYTE - 2024 Star Wars TV

[Mr. Hooper 3,550]

15 hours ago, Andy said:

@Luke Skywalker has passed his Jedi trials!

He's much wiser than I was at his age...

[Edmilson 9,134]

If you want to see the understand the utter disaster and failure that this show is: contemplate the fact that these morons made SPACE LESBIANS uncool.

 

A decade ago a show about space lesbian witches doing battle with the Jedi set in the Star Wars universe would be enough to make everyone go crazy about it. Now... It's just a sad and lame excuse for poor storytelling.

[Mr. Hooper 3,550]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

If you want to see the understand the utter disaster and failure that this show is: contemplate the fact that these morons made SPACE LESBIANS uncool.

It would've been gold in the hands of a more competent showrunner.

 

 

(Answer: Russ Meyer)

[crocodile 8,610]

13 hours ago, Edmilson said:

If you want to see the understand the utter disaster and failure that this show is: contemplate the fact that these morons made SPACE LESBIANS uncool.

 

A decade ago a show about space lesbian witches doing battle with the Jedi set in the Star Wars universe would be enough to make everyone go crazy about it. Now... It's just a sad and lame excuse for poor storytelling.

Space Lesbian Witches: A Star Wars Story would have been an awesome title. 😀

 

I tend to be fairly forgiving these days and my ranting days are over. But...there is something odd going on with the way they edited of this show. One scene at the beginning starts off with establishing shot of the forest planet only to then cut to the single shot of a spacecraft taking off? 🤔

 

Karol

[HunterTech 1,290]

15 hours ago, Edmilson said:

If you want to see the understand the utter disaster and failure that this show is: contemplate the fact that these morons made SPACE LESBIANS uncool.

 

A decade ago a show about space lesbian witches doing battle with the Jedi set in the Star Wars universe would be enough to make everyone go crazy about it. Now... It's just a sad and lame excuse for poor storytelling.

 

Not helping matters when legitimate recent alternatives exist.....

 

 

Though for all the talk this show has gotten, who even are the lesbians? And do they do anything that would piss off international censors?

[Edmilson 9,134]

Agree or disagree?

 

“I haven’t seen the Star Wars community so united since Mando 2 finale”: The Acolyte Broke George Lucas’ Franchise to its Core and Disney Can No Longer Play the Victim Card to Get Out of This
Star Wars fans unite to unanimously reject The Acolyte and Disney Star Wars overall after the latest entry poorly treated canon lore.

 

SUMMARY

• The Acolyte is the latest addition to the Star Wars universe, which has proved quiet underwhelming among the fanbase.
• Fans took to social media and unitedly voiced their disapproval of the series created by Leslye Headland as it is miles off George Lucas' vision.
• As a result, Disney needs to admit they have broken the franchise instead of blaming the fans for their strong opinions about its Star Wars content.

Source

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

 

8 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Agree or disagree?

 

“I haven’t seen the Star Wars community so united since Mando 2 finale”: The Acolyte Broke George Lucas’ Franchise to its Core and Disney Can No Longer Play the Victim Card to Get Out of This

 

Has the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes improved since the early reaction?

[Mr. Hooper 3,550]

Someone over on YouTube made this astute comment about the kerfuffle surrounding the new Assassin's Creed game, but it applies to the many other IPs that have been appropriated by corporate activism, including Star Wars.

 

"To me, this game feels like someone who saw a kid crying, and then decided to help that kid by taking another kid's toy by force and giving it to the crying kid. "Now you get to be a samurai. Aren't you happy?" This is what the makers of this game are. A bunch of people with a severe hero complex."

[Edmilson 9,134]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

Has the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes improved since the early reaction?

It's at 14%, which is the same score as last week I think:

 

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_wars_the_acolyte

 

I wonder if those 14% of people actually liked the show or are just giving it positive reviews just to "own the chuds". Not that the other side don't do that, of course, but I don't think 86% of all review scores are only extremists attacking Disney.

[HunterTech 1,290]

On 05/07/2024 at 10:41 AM, Mr. Hooper said:

Someone over on YouTube made this astute comment about the kerfuffle surrounding the new Assassin's Creed game, but it applies to the many other IPs that have been appropriated by corporate activism, including Star Wars.

 

"To me, this game feels like someone who saw a kid crying, and then decided to help that kid by taking another kid's toy by force and giving it to the crying kid. "Now you get to be a samurai. Aren't you happy?" This is what the makers of this game are. A bunch of people with a severe hero complex."

 

What a weird fucking thing to say in the case of AC, because with the amount of varied entries there are in that series (many of which were primarily critiqued for more technical reasons), this is the one gets shit for being a supposedly conceptual failure? Especially when there would've been so many artistic liberties taken in what came before, so I'm not sure what's so different about doing so with another real historical figure. 14 games in, and I guess it is still too soon to change things up.

 

Though I'm not going to disagree about it being applicable elsewhere, even if SW continues to be so murky in its approach. That RLM video on the show taught me that "the force is female" wasn't even an idea from anyone at Lucasfilm, so that bodes pretty well for anything the show does that isn't easy to cut out for international copies.

[bespinGPT 8,856]

In ten minutes of Shogun, there is more emotion than in 30 years of Star Wars. The fact is, woke entertainment is devoid of any emotion.

[Andy 5,216]

Whatever you may think of RT ratings, it is supposedly getting great viewership ratings, second only to Kenobi for Star Wars shows.  So... expect more?

[DarthDementous 1,250]

10 minutes ago, Andy said:

Whatever you may think of RT ratings, it is supposedly getting great viewership ratings, second only to Kenobi for Star Wars shows.  So... expect more?

 

The hate-watching always backfires

 

The Star Wars fandom is pissing me off for deciding only now has Disney gone off the rails in terms of the canon

 

Where was any of this when they wiped the canon slate clean? This show, along with Andor, has done the least amount of damage to the original continuity, and yet those other shows (Rebels especially holy shit) those people aren't very vocal about or they get praise. The bias is extremely apparent, and the people who claim to care about canon only do so when it's convenient

 

My hypothesis is that since this show doesn't go heavy on fan service, there's nothing to distract the audience and they're only now just seeing the state of the franchise as a whole. There is no way in hell this show is worse than Kenobi and the only meaningful difference there is the heavy reliance on established characters. Same goes for Ahsoka which was patently worse than Kenobi, also no large uproar about it and even more praise to it than Kenobi

 

By selectively tearing apart the Acolyte I don't think the fanbase realises what signal they're sending, and it's one that's going to cause a doubling down of that-thing-you-know because of inconsistent criticism, the absolute last thing Star Wars needs right now

[HunterTech 1,290]

With Ghostbusters 2016, that infamous trailer undoubtedly gave a pretty good display of the sort of energy the film was going to have, regardless of if you feel the subsequent responses were warranted or not.

 

The Acolyte? It sure got a lot of dislikes when that trailer popped up. Couldn't tell you why though, because it ain't anything special as far Disney SW marketing goes.

 

I feel tempted to compare this to Eternals in regards to experiments that fell flat, but even that was allowed to just come and go, since the MCU's oversaturation meant it could just fall to the wayside in terms of contributing to the decreased batting average. The Acolyte is fascinating in how much people have long decided it was gonna finish what Last Jedi "started," even if cooler heads tell me that it's just more D+ slop.

[Doo_liss 6,639]

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

 

The hate-watching always backfires

 

The Star Wars fandom is pissing me off for deciding only now has Disney gone off the rails in terms of the canon

 

Where was any of this when they wiped the canon slate clean? This show, along with Andor, has done the least amount of damage to the original continuity, and yet those other shows (Rebels especially holy shit) those people aren't very vocal about or they get praise.

Rebels gets criticism. Sarsaparilla or whatever his name is for one. Or maybe it was Cosmonaut Variety Hour....

[Edmilson 9,134]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

Whatever you may think of RT ratings, it is supposedly getting great viewership ratings, second only to Kenobi for Star Wars shows.  So... expect more?

Apparently this data from a third party trying to make The Acolyte look like a massive hit is flawed and unreliable.

 

https://thatparkplace.com/media-attempts-to-spin-the-acolyte-as-a-success-based-on-nebulous-and-undefined-sreaming-and-engagement-index/

 

The truth is: no one except those working at the higher echelons of Disney knows if it's a hit and how much it's being watched by how many people and for how much time.

 

[EDIT]: 

According to Luminate data share by Variety, the week that the show’s fifth episode debuted only brought in 232.2 million minutes watched. This is the worst week aside from the show’s first week, which only brought in 210 million minutes.

 

The show peaked in its second week with 380.5 million. However, it significantly declined to 262 million minutes watched in its third week. Viewership data for its fifth week when the show’s sixth episode debuted has not been made public yet.

 

 

The show’s viewership is way down compared to Ahsoka. Ahsoka’s two episode premiere brought in 829 million minutes as reported by Nielsen compared to The Acolyte’s 210 million as reported by Luminate.

 

While Ahsoka declined the week of its third episode to 487 million minutes and The Acolyte increased to 380.5 million, Ahsoka still had over 100 million more minutes viewed compared to The Acolyte.

Ahsoka’s fourth episode hauled in 459 million minutes compared to the 262 million minutes of The Acolyte. The fifth episode of Ahsoka raked in 577 million minutes compared to the 232.2 million for The Acolyte. That’s a 59.7% decline.

 

Looking at the the show’s fifth episode even if you factor in both show’s run times, The Acolyte is performing far worse than Ahsoka. The Acolyte’s fifth episode has a run time of 34:05 while Ahsoka’s fifth episode had a run time of 51:44.

 

If you do a simple total run time divided by the episode’s run time, Ahsoka has around 11.3 million views while The Acolyte has 6.8 million. That’s nearly a 40% decline.

 

Based on the data available, the negative reviews are not review bombing as Headland claims, but are indeed legitimate negative reviews. Not only do they appear to be legitimate negative reviews, but viewers are not tuning in to any more episodes indicating their dislike of the show.

 

Source

 

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

My hypothesis is that since this show doesn't go heavy on fan service, there's nothing to distract the audience and they're only now just seeing the state of the franchise as a whole. There is no way in hell this show is worse than Kenobi and the only meaningful difference there is the heavy reliance on established characters. Same goes for Ahsoka which was patently worse than Kenobi, also no large uproar about it and even more praise to it than Kenobi

 

By selectively tearing apart the Acolyte I don't think the fanbase realises what signal they're sending, and it's one that's going to cause a doubling down of that-thing-you-know because of inconsistent criticism, the absolute last thing Star Wars needs right now

I have no doubt there is some review bombing going on, there always is. But if your show was good, there would be an equal amount of positive review bombings going on. But there isnt. And that alone tells you something.

 

On IMDB you take away the 1s and 10s, and sure it doesnt look as bad. But it still doesnt look good. 12k votes between 9 and 6(majority 8). 17k between 5 and 2(majority 2). So the majority, still dont like this show.

 

Either way, Disney managed the incredible feat of turning Star Wars into the most divisive franchise in Hollywood. Some people hate it to the point of review bombing, others are trying to defend it (mostly for political/ideological reasons rather than the actual quality of the products being released by them), so on this day and age we'd hardly get a fair assessment of their movies and shows. Maybe in the future, when it's all settled down...

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

I’m sceptical of any source that uses “impressions” and social media activity to estimate ratings. They’re just guessing.

 

Only The Mouse knows the truth, and if the ratings were through the roof, we’d be hearing about it.

[DarthDementous 1,250]

17 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

https://thatparkplace.com/media-attempts-to-spin-the-acolyte-as-a-success-based-on-nebulous-and-undefined-sreaming-and-engagement-index/

 

The truth is: no one except those working at the higher echelons of Disney knows if it's a hit and how much it's being watched by how many people and for how much time.

I highly recommend finding additional sources that point at this, because 'thatparkplace' is very biased against content that is deemed as 'woke' and often the things they report on aren't reported by anyone else which is very suspicious. The data might be legitimate though.

 

18 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I have no doubt there is some review bombing going on, there always is. But if your show was good, there would be an equal amount of positive review bombings going on. But there isnt. And that alone tells you something.

 

On IMDB you take away the 1s and 10s, and sure it doesnt look as bad. But it still doesnt look good. 12k votes between 9 and 6(majority 8). 17k between 5 and 2(majority 2). So the majority, still dont like this show.

To be clear, I was not referring to review bombing here, and in fact my point relies on there being an exceptionally negative response to this show compared to other shows. I am pointing out the hypocrisy in trashing this show to this degree but not the other shows that are of similar quality or even worse quality, that points to me that the opposition is not primarily based on the quality even if detractors are insisting that's the case

Those who think that everything except for Andor is a trashfire are being consistent, but anyone who was anywhere from enraptured to lukewarm up until now, is being horribly inconsistent at least from a quality argument. Andor and Acolyte are restrained with fan service and nostalgia, the difference being the former is executed to an incredibly high degree that it pierces through the fan bias like a blinding light, although it's worth pointing out how much that show got and still gets detraction from the types who define Star Wars on a primarily iconographic level

The concerning precedence I see this setting is that if you do not lean heavily on established content, you need to execute it to an incredibly and unusually high degree of quality or else it will be absolutely ripped to shreds by the fanbase. This is only going to discourage not leaning on heavily-established content. The fanbase's complete intolerance of failure in this area (TLJ trauma I think plays into this as well) is not giving the space for the franchise to find its feet in generating novel content instead of stagnating

I believe this is a lukewarm show, and I would like more of a lukewarm response that comes from mostly a constructive place so that these interesting ideas can be executed better next time instead of the backlash freezing the company into ever wanting to explore this era again, let alone make something that doesn't fall into the category of 'Star Wars porn' like Kenobi, Ahsoka, The Mandalorian, and Book of Boba Fett

[Nick1Ø66 6,064]

22 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

I am pointing out the hypocrisy in trashing this show to this degree but not the other shows that are of similar quality or even worse quality, that points to me that the opposition is not primarily based on the quality even if detractors are insisting that's the case

The “opposition”? Opposition to who?

And what do you think the bad reviews are based on? That they’re supposedly ignoring cannon? 

[Manakin Skywalker 5,364]

I think it might be worth noting that not only is Ahsoka Tano a well-established, popular character, but Ahsoka also had Thrawn, one of the most popular Star Wars villains of all time; people have been waiting decades to see him in live action. The Acolyte is set 100 years before the conflict of the films, and has no familiar main or supporting characters. Acolyte was never going to be pulling in Ahsoka numbers, even if the show was of Andor-level excellence.

[enderdrag64 913]

6 hours ago, HunterTech said:

 

What a weird fucking thing to say in the case of AC, because with the amount of varied entries there are in that series (many of which were primarily critiqued for more technical reasons), this is the one gets shit for being a supposedly conceptual failure? Especially when there would've been so many artistic liberties taken in what came before, so I'm not sure what's so different about doing so with another real historical figure. 14 games in, and I guess it is still too soon to change things up.

I think the analogy makes sense - maybe not only about the most recent entry; but there was undeniably a complete shift in design philosophy between the earlier games (1 through Syndicate) and the recent ones (Origins through Valhalla). 

 

Of course there's variety within those groups too, but I think there's a pretty clear distinction between them.

 

With Star Wars I think the analogy makes less sense because the recent D+ shows have all been vastly different. There's not really anything that lumps them together other than that they aren't what some fans want

[Mr. Hooper 3,550]

2 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

There is no way in hell this show is worse than Kenobi and the only meaningful difference there is the heavy reliance on established characters. Same goes for Ahsoka which was patently worse than Kenobi, also no large uproar about it and even more praise to it than Kenobi.

I guess we're not looking in the same places, because I saw plenty of fans dumping on Kenobi and Ahsoka.

 

11 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

The Acolyte is set 100 years before the conflict of the films, and has no familiar main or supporting characters. Acolyte was never going to be pulling in Ahsoka numbers, even if the show was of Andor-level excellence.

Yeah, like it or not, people tune in to see characters they already know.

 

Now if only there was a way of combining "Andor-level excellence" with some familiar characters, so we don't just get sloppy "Star Wars porn"...

[DarthDementous 1,250]

29 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The “opposition”? Opposition to who?

And what do you think the bad reviews are based on? That they’re supposedly ignoring cannon? 

The opposition to this show. I'm going off common things I've seen show up in the negative discourse when discussing this show, one of which is the claim of it being canon-breaking, another which it is not in alignment with Lucas' vision. My issue is that this is being brought up and focused on for this show but not nearly to the degree of the other shows which are far more egregious but are also fuller to the brim with Star Wars iconography

 

13 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I guess we're not looking in the same places, because I saw plenty of fans dumping on Kenobi and Ahsoka.

There has not even remotely been the level of backlash to those shows as there has been to this one. I also saw plenty of fans not stfu about all the Anakin scenes in Ahsoka despite that episode being absolute gobbledegook, and attempted defences to the most egregious parts of Kenobi such as the scene where Obi Wan smuggles Leia out of the Sith Inquisitor base in a trench coat

[HunterTech 1,290]

20 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

I think the analogy makes sense - maybe not only about the most recent entry; but there was undeniably a complete shift in design philosophy between the earlier games (1 through Syndicate) and the recent ones (Origins through Valhalla). 

 

Of course there's variety within those groups too, but I think there's a pretty clear distinction between them.

 

With Star Wars I think the analogy makes less sense because the recent D+ shows have all been vastly different. There's not really anything that lumps them together other than that they aren't what some fans want

 

You going out of your way to specify that the recent entries in general feel different does not appear like the prevailing thought several people have with the upcoming entry, since there's little else to explain why it now has a petition with over 50,000 signatures to shelve it entirely. When I heard previously about how an entry launched on day one with copious amounts of bugs and staggering performance, it was treated as yet another standard Ubisoft fuck up in rushing out AAA games. Yet this is treated as if a great disservice has been done, when I'm really not sure of the last time that an AC release has really entered the conversation to this degree. Especially when we still only have the general premise to work off of and not the gameplay, so design philosophy probably wouldn't be relevant to this particular discussion.

 

I definitely agree in regards to the SW shows, since a lot of them arguably work really hard to appeal to the fan base with the excessive amounts of fan service that are contained within. The big issue then is that the priorities often tend to be skewed as a result, or that they really weren't sure of the exact vision they had once they established those other elements. Obi-Wan and Ahsoka in particular seem to struggle a lot in conveying their ideas through the extended runtime, suggesting that they should've gotten extra polish in the scripts so that time would be used more ergonomically. And yet for the Mouse, the fact it technically checks all the crowd pleasing boxes means that they don't have to try any harder to make their streaming ventures more worthwhile, since they're always moving onto the next thing with similar goals.

[Edmilson 9,134]

I agree that the fan response to this show is probably exaggerated and exhacerbated by the internet. From what I've seen this is a mostly mediocre show and not actually a massive, unforgivable disaster, "worst Star Wars ever" or such.

 

But the conclusion I take from all of this is that the relationship between Lucasfilm (especially post-Disney Lucasfilm) with the fanbase is so soured and rotten at this point that anything they release is going to be trashed. They can release the new Citizen Kane set in the Star Wars universe and still will get review bombed. 

 

Disney broke all the bridges with the fans, who will never forget and never forgive the Mouse for a decade-worth of what they deem bad Star Wars content. 

 

Also, I think in Acolyte's case it doesn't help that the show was made with the intention of showing the Jedi are flawed. In the fans's point of view, Disney has been sistematically demoralizing the Jedi since the Sequels. And the Order is a beloved aspect from the series.

 

With Andor is easier because it's about some nobodies doing spy work to defeat the Empire. But the Jedi are the symbol of everything idealistic about the Star Wars galaxy and, in their view, all Disney does is to humiliate them.

[enderdrag64 913]

23 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

 

You going out of your way to specify that the recent entries in general feel different does not appear like the prevailing thought several people have with the upcoming entry, since there's little else to explain why it now has a petition with over 50,000 signatures to shelve it entirely. When I heard previously about how an entry launched on day one with copious amounts of bugs and staggering performance, it was treated as yet another standard Ubisoft fuck up in rushing out AAA games. Yet this is treated as if a great disservice has been done, when I'm really not sure of the last time that an AC release has really entered the conversation to this degree. Especially when we still only have the general premise to work off of and not the gameplay, so design philosophy probably wouldn't be relevant to this particular discussion.

Oh I hadn't even heard about the latest game news. Wow just looking it over now that's crazy; it doesn't sound any more severely inaccurate than any previous game. Since when do general audiences care about historical accuracy anyway?

 

23 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

I definitely agree in regards to the SW shows, since a lot of them arguably work really hard to appeal to the fan base with the excessive amounts of fan service that are contained within. The big issue then is that the priorities often tend to be skewed as a result, or that they really weren't sure of the exact vision they had once they established those other elements. Obi-Wan and Ahsoka in particular seem to struggle a lot in conveying their ideas through the extended runtime, suggesting that they should've gotten extra polish in the scripts so that time would be used more ergonomically. And yet for the Mouse, the fact it technically checks all the crowd pleasing boxes means that they don't have to try any harder to make their streaming ventures more worthwhile, since they're always moving onto the next thing with similar goals.

I'm fairly certain this is because they were originally movie scripts

[Doo_liss 6,639]

22 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Also, I think in Acolyte's case it doesn't help that the show was made with the intention of showing the Jedi are flawed. In the fans's point of view, Disney has been sistematically demoralizing the Jedi since the Sequels. And the Order is a beloved aspect from the series.

 

 

Yeah, back in the day, Karen Traviss did the same thing, and it kind of got the same, but on a much smaller scale. (As an aside, IIRC she left SW after Filoni made the Mando's pacifists in TCW)

[Hego-Damask-II 52]

On 02/07/2024 at 9:30 PM, Edmilson said:

For example, in the comics it was shown that Jedi co-existed with other Force cults and worked along side them at Jedha, but in this show they apparently all superior about it, not allowing any other order to exists

I don't recall any instance where the show indicates that the Jedi do not tolerate any other groups of Force-users (outside of the Sith), outside of the implication via Mothers Koril and Aniseya that their group was as well. And even if so, the Jedi at the very least seemed content to merely test the children and leave the coven to themselves.

On 02/07/2024 at 9:30 PM, Edmilson said:

In the novels they had a pretty big war against a large pirate gang that almost collapsed the galactic republic, but according to the show it has been peaceful for generations so the Jedi are complacent.

 Having not read THR or the '98 SW comics, the impression I've gotten is that the conflict with the Nihil was comparable to the Stark Hyperspace War. Both involved relatively small groups that operated as a short-term thorn in the Republic's side, their threat primarily due to hyperspace technology. As such, dealing with them pretty much was a political necessity and not nearly as much of a military one, as with the CIS.

 

The word "generation" has not appeared thus far in The Acolyte and I do not recall an implication comparable to the one you describe. And even if so, it wouldn't be particularly problematic, given that the Nihil threat was ended something around 75-100 years prior to the events of the series.

 

On 02/07/2024 at 9:30 PM, Edmilson said:

I also think it's unfortunate that the other force users they're showing us seem to be cultish or just downright evil. Osha's group is a bunch of literal witches that are engaging in some very bizarre rituals related to two small girls, and are seen attacking the mind of one of the Jedi as soon as they show up. Then The Master is clearly a homicidal maniac. 

 

If you want to show us how the Jedi's heavy handed doctrine was actually harmful then show us how they were actively suppressing other GOOD Force users who wanted to use the Force in ways that were distinct from the Jedi. What they've instead showed us that the Jedi seemed to be going around and OFFERING children the opportunity to join the Jedi, while also trying to prevent dark force users from engaging in evil practices. It's like making a show that's clearly trying to say that the cops are bad, but then all the cops are shown doing is pursuing and arresting murderers and bank robbers. The show is not nearly as nuanced or compelling as the showrunners seem to have been going for.

I would agree if that's actually what the Jedi were doing; however I don't see any reason thus far to believe so. The flashback episode didn't give us too much insight into the everyday lives of the coven, given that the main purpose was to show the traumatic incident for Osha/Mae. That said, at the very least, regardless of the potential dubiousness of the witches' Force use, the two girls seemed reasonably content with their family.

 

At the very least, that element gives some weight to Mae's response to said events, particularly if she's heard her whole life that the Jedi are bad and have mistreated her family (we still don't know what that means). Regardless of the Order's moral approach to recruiting young Force-sensitives, with such a large galaxy (and itself a not insignificantly-sized organization), there is the possibility that something wrong happened outside the purview of the High Council (a recent example in the current canon involves Sifo-Dyas and Zilastra in The Living Force).

 

And that doesn't even speak to the still unclear events that left Osha as Sol's orphaned pupil and Mae as an abandoned orphan (hopefully to be rectified by Episode 7).

4 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Where was any of this when they wiped the canon slate clean? This show, along with Andor, has done the least amount of damage to the original continuity, and yet those other shows (Rebels especially holy shit) those people aren't very vocal about or they get praise. The bias is extremely apparent, and the people who claim to care about canon only do so when it's convenient

...

 

By selectively tearing apart The Acolyte I don't think the fanbase realises what signal they're sending, and it's one that's going to cause a doubling down of that-thing-you-know because of inconsistent criticism, the absolute last thing Star Wars needs right now

I still shake my head at the group of Filoni stans who took until Ahsoka to start reevaluating things.

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

The opposition to this show. I'm going off common things I've seen show up in the negative discourse when discussing this show, one of which is the claim of it being canon-breaking, another which it is not in alignment with Lucas' vision. My issue is that this is being brought up and focused on for this show but not nearly to the degree of the other shows which are far more egregious but are also fuller to the brim with Star Wars iconography

 

There has not even remotely been the level of backlash to those shows as there has been to this one. I also saw plenty of fans not stfu about all the Anakin scenes in Ahsoka despite that episode being absolute gobbledegook, and attempted defences to the most egregious parts of Kenobi such as the scene where Obi Wan smuggles Leia out of the Sith Inquisitor base in a trench coat

This, this, this.

[Luke Skywalker 1,970]

I dont understand the canon backlash also… this series has eastwr egs from the old EU…thats cool

[GerateWohl 5,160]

13 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

By selectively tearing apart the Acolyte I don't think the fanbase realises what signal they're sending, and it's one that's going to cause a doubling down of that-thing-you-know because of inconsistent criticism, the absolute last thing Star Wars needs right now

Star Wars deserves a coup de grace.

[bored 453]

As stupid as old EU was, hey, at least sometimes it went weird and off the rails a little bit. That's actually one of the things I liked about Solo in comparison to Rogue One.

 

Rogue One was just "things you know" Star Wars porn with dull characters and plot, whereas at least Solo had some weird, creative aliens, space squids, black holes, an annoying droid that's at least kind of different, gangster and heist plots, smaller scale (Rogue One might as well be Return of the Jedi by the end it's so ridiculously large scale), on-the-ground Imperial warfare, floating buildings, and even a little world-building with the card game that Han plays against Lando.

 

It's using familiar characters to show these things, yes, but hey, at least it was weird and kind of different.

[DarthDementous 1,250]

7 hours ago, bored said:

As stupid as old EU was, hey, at least sometimes it went weird and off the rails a little bit. That's actually one of the things I liked about Solo in comparison to Rogue One.

 

Rogue One was just "things you know" Star Wars porn with dull characters and plot, whereas at least Solo had some weird, creative aliens, space squids, black holes, an annoying droid that's at least kind of different, gangster and heist plots, smaller scale (Rogue One might as well be Return of the Jedi by the end it's so ridiculously large scale), on-the-ground Imperial warfare, floating buildings, and even a little world-building with the card game that Han plays against Lando.

 

It's using familiar characters to show these things, yes, but hey, at least it was weird and kind of different.

 

I do find Solo quite charming (other than L337) and this is probably why because it does manage to evoke feelings of the old expanded universe by doing what you describe

 

The EU's boldness I think is why it was able to keep the franchise afloat and not stagnant during the many years without Lucas content

 

It was probably more even keel than people give it credit for, for every Waru there was a Thrawn

[Gabriel Bezerra 423]

I think the worst thing about L3 is drawing attention to the droid problem in Star Wars

[bored 453]

Don't know if I'd consider it a problem since they're literally built for specific purposes.

[Hego-Damask-II 52]

On 06/07/2024 at 6:36 AM, Luke Skywalker said:

I don't understand the canon backlash also… this series has Easter eggs from the old EU…that's cool

Headland has said that she read some of it as a teenager and included stuff that she thought was cool from it in The Acolyte. Also, something to the effect of "No one told me I couldn't so I did it."

On 06/07/2024 at 11:39 AM, bored said:

As stupid as old EU was, hey, at least sometimes it went weird and off the rails a little bit.

Mind elaborating?

20 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

It was probably more even keel than people give it credit for, for every Waru there was a Thrawn

I've seen Waru and The Crystal Star mocked as a low point of the EU and I don't understand it. What's particularly problematic with the Waru concept?

4 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

I think the worst thing about L3 is drawing attention to the droid problem in Star Wars

How is that a bad thing?

[Gabriel Bezerra 423]

1 hour ago, Hego-Damask-II said:

How is that a bad thing?

It's bad not because of the movie itself, but because they refuse to follow that up. Instead, we got Mandalorian Season 3.

[Doo_liss 6,639]

1 hour ago, Hego-Damask-II said:

Mind elaborating?

Waru, the Anti-Force, Female Ctuhulu chaos "god" (Abeloth), Hutt Jedi, organic spaceships, a living planet (Zonama Sekot), Ysalamiri, Aliens cut off from the Force (Vong), a part of space that makes you hallucinate (Kathol rift), several clone Jedi (Joruus, Luuke, Dorsk, Jaden) other planes of existence (Beyond Shadows), time travel (Lost Tribe, Flow Walking) etc.

[Edmilson 9,134]

Anyone else thinks Abeloth is an awesome villain and would rather see a Sequel Trilogy focusing on Luke and his new Jedi acolytes dealing with her?

 

I mean, a Lovecraftian Force entity, so terrifying that the Jedi and Sith must let their differences aside to fight her, who doesn't want to see that? Much better than "let's do a remake of the OT with a new Empire and new Rebels because people on Twitter said the prequels are bad and we must remind them of how much they love Star Wars?"

[Doo_liss 6,639]

31 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone else thinks Abeloth is an awesome villain and would rather see a Sequel Trilogy focusing on Luke and his new Jedi acolytes dealing with her?

 

I mean, a Lovecraftian Force entity, so terrifying that the Jedi and Sith must let their differences aside to fight her, who doesn't want to see that? Much better than "let's do a remake of the OT with a new Empire and new Rebels because people on Twitter said the prequels are bad and we must remind them of how much they love Star Wars?"

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about Nyax, with lightsabers coming out of his knees lol

 

[Hego-Damask-II 52]

2 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

It's bad not because of the movie itself, but because they refuse to follow that up. Instead, we got Mandalorian Season 3.

Yeah, I also enjoyed Solo and wish they had continued with a sequel. Instead, we get them jumping ahead with Qi'ra in the comics. Unfortunate...

2 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Waru, the Anti-Force, Female Ctuhulu chaos "god" (Abeloth), Hutt Jedi, organic spaceships, a living planet (Zonama Sekot), Ysalamiri, Aliens cut off from the Force (Vong), a part of space that makes you hallucinate (Kathol rift), several clone Jedi (Joruus, Luuke, Dorsk, Jaden) other planes of existence (Beyond Shadows), time travel (Lost Tribe, Flow Walking) etc.

I also appreciate the bizarre and interesting stuff the EU came up with, including what's on your list. I'm confused as to why you call it stupid while saying you like the weirdness of it.

[Doo_liss 6,639]

5 minutes ago, Hego-Damask-II said:

 

I also appreciate the bizarre and interesting stuff the EU came up with, including what's on your list. I'm confused as to why you call it stupid while saying you like the weirdness of it.

Just going to point out it was @bored who said it was stupid.

[Hego-Damask-II 52]

23 minutes ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Just going to point out it was @bored who said it was stupid.

My bad...saw the reply to my question and missed that it wasn't the same person.

[bored 453]

The very idea of the lightsaber whip and lightsaber cat-o-nine tails is pretty stupid in and of itself if you need an example from me personally. And the detailed descriptions of Vader's bowel movements and suit functions. And the entire "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader" book that focuses far more on random Jedi instead of the title character.

[DarthDementous 1,250]

7 hours ago, Hego-Damask-II said:

Headland has said that she read some of it as a teenager and included stuff that she thought was cool from it in The Acolyte. Also, something to the effect of "No one told me I couldn't so I did it."

Not just that, but she got into Star Wars through the Star Wars Table-Top games that laid the foundation for the EU, so it's interesting to see a take on the series from someone who had the EU as their first experience of Star Wars

 

7 hours ago, Hego-Damask-II said:

I've seen Waru and The Crystal Star mocked as a low point of the EU and I don't understand it. What's particularly problematic with the Waru concept?

It's an extraordinarily bizarre book for Star Wars, likely due to the author being a Star Trek writer because this definitely reads more as a typical Star Trek story where the crew encounter some weird space phenomenon, where Luke decides to get absorbed by this strange Lovecraftian entity that promises a higher connection to the Force which even for him seems naive. I actually prefer the Supernatural Encounters recontextualization of Waru as an actual Old God because it helps explain how out of place this character is as well as its abilities whereas the original story just treats it as any other alien you could just come across

That's my take on it though, based off the admittedly hazy memory I have of reading that book quite a few years ago. The main point of the comparison was in regards to overall fan reception where for every controversial bizarre addition to the canon like Waru there's a really well-integrated and well-loved addition to the canon like Thrawn
 

6 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Ysalamiri, several clone Jedi (Joruus, Luuke, Dorsk, Jaden)

Since these are part of EU stories I have actually read and are familiar with, I'll defend the Ysalamiri and Joruus/Luuke from being stupid additions to the canon

The ysalamiri are actually quite smart because they suppress the Force as part of an ability they evolved to avoid the Force-sensitive Vornskyr from being able to track them. Given the Force is in all living things, it's not a stretch that it would play into evolutionary dynamics as well

Joruus and Luuke are no more stupid than the cloning in the main series, and even more sensible because they establish the limitation that cloning a Force sensitive has serious consequences in regards to the stability of the clone. Joruus is barely keeping it together and Luuke is barely sentient. People dunk on their names but don't realize how useful it is to have that subtle distinction in the pronunciation in the audiobooks

[Hego-Damask-II 52]

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

Not just that, but she got into Star Wars through the Star Wars Table-Top games that laid the foundation for the EU, so it's interesting to see a take on the series from someone who had the EU as their first experience of Star Wars

 

It's an extraordinarily bizarre book for Star Wars, likely due to the author being a Star Trek writer because this definitely reads more as a typical Star Trek story where the crew encounter some weird space phenomenon, where Luke decides to get absorbed by this strange Lovecraftian entity that promises a higher connection to the Force which even for him seems naive. I actually prefer the Supernatural Encounters recontextualization of Waru as an actual Old God because it helps explain how out of place this character is as well as its abilities whereas the original story just treats it as any other alien you could just come across

That's my take on it though, based off the admittedly hazy memory I have of reading that book quite a few years ago. The main point of the comparison was in regards to overall fan reception where for every controversial bizarre addition to the canon like Waru there's a really well-integrated and well-loved addition to the canon like Thrawn
 

Since these are part of EU stories I have actually read and are familiar with, I'll defend the Ysalamiri and Joruus/Luuke from being stupid additions to the canon

The ysalamiri are actually quite smart because they suppress the Force as part of an ability they evolved to avoid the Force-sensitive Vornskyr from being able to track them. Given the Force is in all living things, it's not a stretch that it would play into evolutionary dynamics as well

Joruus and Luuke are no more stupid than the cloning in the main series, and even more sensible because they establish the limitation that cloning a Force sensitive has serious consequences in regards to the stability of the clone. Joruus is barely keeping it together and Luuke is barely sentient. People dunk on their names but don't realize how useful it is to have that subtle distinction in the pronunciation in the audiobooks

I agree on almost everything.

 

As far as TCS, I read it about six months ago and appreciated McIntyre's technical descriptions and her giving the young Solo children the most in depth development outside of YJK while the background to Hethrir and the Reborn had some interesting concepts and Leia had one of her strongest storylines of the Bantam novels (only surpassed by Zahn, Hambly in Children of the Jedi...and possibly Kube-McDowell). Waru was bizarre but appreciable as a unique antagonist. As far as Luke's decision-making, it's established that his Force-sensitivity was a curse from the moment he approached Crseih Station because of Waru/the crystal star effect.

4 hours ago, bored said:

The very idea of the lightsaber whip and lightsaber cat-o-nine tails is pretty stupid in and of itself if you need an example from me personally. And the detailed descriptions of Vader's bowel movements and suit functions. And the entire "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader" book that focuses far more on random Jedi instead of the title character.

I suppose the stupidity of the elements you've mentioned are debatable, but regardless, how does they make the EU itself stupid? If it's that you don't like expansion of lore, explanations of every detail, I understand.

 

I don't really see how a lightsaber whip is any more ridiculous than a standard lightsaber. While it's been a number of years since I read DL:TRoDV, if memory serves, the time spent on Roan Shryne was to set him up character-wise for his confrontation with Vader, although more pagetime for the Sith Lord would have been appreciated (typically one of my main gripes with a SW novel is how little the antagonist is featured). Additionally, my interpretation of the title is not as literal. That said, I do think the best moments in the novel were Sidious' lessons to Vader.

[DarthDementous 1,250]

5 hours ago, Hego-Damask-II said:

Waru was bizarre but appreciable as a unique antagonist. As far as Luke's decision-making, it's established that his Force-sensitivity was a curse from the moment he approached Crseih Station because of Waru/the crystal star effect.

 

Ah yes now that you mention it I do remember there being something that was making Luke not be in his right mind, that makes more sense

[JohnTheBaptist 63]

On 29/06/2024 at 11:23 AM, Andy said:

it needed a line of dialogue to solidify what Cortosis is.  “It’s no use! His helmet must be made of Cortosis!” I’m not a writer, but something like that, like the Droidekas in Phantom Menace “Master, they’re using shield generators!”

🤦

On 26/06/2024 at 12:12 PM, Mr. Hooper said:

I'm not interested in 'Star Wars' reflecting modern sensibilities and political thinking. I prefer moral simplicity and clarity, in a galaxy far, far away from our own, which I can escape to...

 

Seppuku is a modern sensibility? 😂

[Mr. Hooper 3,550]

4 hours ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

Seppuku is a modern sensibility? 😂

I was talking about the portraying of the Jedi as something less than perfect, and no longer in a basic good vs. evil way. But take from it what you will.

[Jay 39,762]

The Acolyte 1x06 Teach / Corrupt

 

I'm glad Sol figured out Mae was pretending to be this episode and it wasn't something stretched to the end of the season, but I'm not clear why Bazil couldn't have told Sol right away that he knew?  It's interesting that even Mae doesn't know the full story of what happened with the fire and aftermath?  I assume we'll see that next week with Sol telling her he'll explain it as we also get Osha putting on the force-boosting helmet, it's like a double-confirmation that we're getting another flashback episode next week.  Hopefully it's a good explanation!

 

Qimir is being coy about who his former master was, and it's not clear if we should believe he's telling the truth.  I wonder how much we'll learn about that in the next 2 episodes.  I thought it was interesting to finally have Vernestra go out on a mission, and that they were able to find all the bodies and quickly realized a Jedi killed them all.  But why do they seem to assume it was Sol? They simply can't believe that there's an evil Jedi out there I guess?  The lightsaber whip was pretty nifty.  Boy, this episode was short.  Why are all these episodes closer to 30 minutes than 60 minutes?  This one the end credits were rolling before I was even done with my 30 minutes on the exercise bike.  Sheesh!

[Chen G. 4,719]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I was talking about the portraying of the Jedi as something less than perfect, and no longer in a basic good vs. evil way.

 

That's what a lot of latter-day Star Wars seem to glean from the prequel trilogy Jedi: they take Lucas' inability to make the Jedi sympathetic and treat it as though it was intended as a commentary on their flaws (hint: it wasn't).

 

The Last Jedi started this particular trend.