David Arnold's TOMORROW NEVER DIES (1997) - NEW! 2-CD Expanded Edition from La-La Land Records (2022)

[mstrox 6,647]

59 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

The problem with that is that consumers don't give a monkey's which label some artist is signed to or which studio happens to be in charge of a franchise this week. All they (and we) notice is... where the hell's the song?

I’ll temper this by saying that I agree that the songs SHOULD be on the albums. However, businesswise, in the Daniel Craig era of Bond where people can buy music track by track (instead of having to buy a whole album), it’s very savvy for individual labels to release the track themselves and get 100% of the money instead of splitting it with Sony on a score album that will sell far fewer copies overall than the individual song track will.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Lots of negotiation needs to take place on this.

One negotiation would be that for LLLR to release it expanded and on CD, it would not be available as an individual track via them for Download.

 

It would bypass that particular royalty issue and provide more income for licensors involved.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

As a completist, I would have preferred to have had "Writing's On The Wall" on the OST for SPECTRE, as that would have saved me the embarrassment of having to go into my local HMV, and purchase a fucking Sam Smith CD.

Oh, the humanity.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

I was massively thankful they included an instrumental version on the OST as I can't stand Smith's vocal version.

 

Being very un-knowldgeable about what it costs LLL et al to include songs by major artists, I'm almost surprised they were able to include the songs on this and TWINE (not sure if DAD has its song). I would fully understand if they only did the score and just told everyone to keep the song from their existing OST.

 

I seem to remember the Titanic set doesn't have MHWGO no doubt due to a small fortune due to Dion.

[A. A. Ron 1,739]

4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

(not sure if DAD has its song).

 

It does not.

 

4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I seem to remember the Titanic set doesn't have MHWGO no doubt due to a small fortune due to Dion.

 

Correct.

[NL197 368]

At the time, LLL commented that if they waited to get clearance for “My Heart Will Go On”, then the 20th anniversary album would have been a 25th…that’s this year. Where is it?🤣

[Jay 37,287]

Chris Cornell is an absolute rock legend. End of. 

[crocodile 7,984]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

As a completist, I would have preferred to have had "Writing's On The Wall" on the OST for SPECTRE, as that would have saved me the embarrassment of having to go into my local HMV, and purchase a fucking Sam Smith CD.

Oh, the humanity.

He's not that bad. I actually sort of like this song.

 

Speaking of Bond songs and Chris Cornell, I absolutely love this orchestral arrangement of You Know My Name:

 

 

Karol

[GerateWohl 4,338]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

- I'd sure as hell never heard of him apart from Bond.

Chris Cornell was with his two major bands, Soundgarden and Audioslave (with members of Rage Against the Maschine) one of the most popular and famous rock singers of the 90s and 2000s, teaming up as well with Pearl Jam for projects like Temple of the Dog.

Or like this:

26 minutes ago, Jay said:

Chris Cornell is an absolute rock legend. End of. 

 

[mstrox 6,647]

Cornell had a great voice, one of the best ever rock voices.  I could never get into the music of Soundgarden or Audioslave, though I’ve heard all of it and still own most of it.  The Casino Royale song might be my actual favorite song of his.

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

He's not that bad. I actually sort of like this song.

 

Speaking of Bond songs and Chris Cornell, I absolutely love this orchestral arrangement of You Know My Name:

 

 

Karol

I really like this album! Goldfinger, From Russia With Love and You Know My Name are probably my favorites from the arrangements. 

[WampaRat 1,105]

2:38 to 2:50 in “Boarding the Stealth”. A small but effectively badass moment in TND. I love how the lower strings attack the famous guitar riff. Arnold does this quite a bit throughout the score. Instead of a cool confidant rendition, things are tense and dire. Love it.

 

Also “Helicopter Ride” (now “Vietnam” on the LLL release) has been a standout highlight for me ever since I saw the film as a youngster. It’s got those cool Arnold strings he uses in Bjorks’ “Play Dead” song. 

 

[Cameron007 43]

11 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Damn, the film take of Backseat Driver is great!

 

I never realized that the opening bass synth was different in the film version!

[FunnyML 81]

8 hours ago, WampaRat said:

Also “Helicopter Ride” (now “Vietnam” on the LLL release)

Interesting. I think the cue is called Helicopter / Vietnam on the sheets. LLL also shortened the first part of the titles Newspaper / Escape to Hotel, Bond To MI6 / Launch The Fleet & Bond In Okinawa / Bond HALO Jump.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Listened to first half of disc 1. WOW. I either forgot how good Arnold's Bond was, or this one is just even better. The brass writing is exquisite, something Newman never managed to provide the franchise with. The theme for Paris is fantastic and I WANT A CONCERT SUITE. Oh God, I've bought so much already this month... This'll have to wait.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I love Thomas Newman but he was such a wrong choice for Bond, composer-director relationships be damned.

[Mr. Who 919]

Love Arnold's Bond scores but Newman was perfect for Bond!

[Anthony 572]

I was apprehensive of Newman before I heard Skyfall, but he nailed it. That said, I'd still kill for another Arnold Bond.

[blondheim 1,157]

I’m not a big fan of Thomas Newman in general and his Bond is no exception.

[Anthony 572]

8 hours ago, FunnyML said:

Interesting. I think the cue is called Helicopter / Vietnam on the sheets. LLL also shortened the first part of the titles Newspaper / Escape to Hotel, Bond To MI6 / Launch The Fleet & Bond In Okinawa / Bond HALO Jump.

 

Could you share all of the sheet names please? I couldn't see them on your site.

[WampaRat 1,105]

I listened to Skyfall quite a bit when it first came out. I couldn’t believe Thomas Newman had been given a chance to write a Bond score! It’s not as muscular or brassy as Arnold’s. But I find there’s a lot to like. I got a good 60ish min playlist that includes a few tracks from Spectre that I enjoyed.
I was much more disappointed in that score. Pretty copy/paste it seemed. Outside of the lovely themes for the love scenes and some of the transitional/establishing shot stuff, wasn’t much that grabbed me. But I think it was partly due to the studio wanting another Skyfall.

[MedigoScan 324]

It was a good score for Skyfall. Dont know if it would have fit the earlier bond movies.

[Tallguy 3,377]

9 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I listened to Skyfall quite a bit when it first came out. I couldn’t believe Thomas Newman had been given a chance to write a Bond score! It’s not as muscular or brassy as Arnold’s. But I find there’s a lot to like. I got a good 60ish min playlist that includes a few tracks from Spectre that I enjoyed.
I was much more disappointed in that score. Pretty copy/paste it seemed. Outside of the lovely themes for the love scenes and some of the transitional/establishing shot stuff, wasn’t much that grabbed me. But I think it was partly due to the studio wanting another Skyfall.

 

I can't think of a sequel where the composer seemed less interested in doing it again.

[WampaRat 1,105]

4 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I can't think of a sequel where the composer seemed less interested in doing it again.

Or actor. Or director…

 

(Maybe Crystal Skull 😜)

[Mr. Who 919]

5 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I can't think of a sequel where the composer seemed less interested in doing it again.

I think Spectre is great and the superior score to Skyfall. I don’t understand why some took against it because of a few tracked bits.

 

What I really like about Newman is how he doesn’t just ply the bond theme like Arnold often does but he dissects it, breaks it down and incorporates different parts of the theme in his score. Classic bond renditions are great as well but I really love when the theme becomes part of the DNA of the score and when it’s less obvious.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Subtlety has no place in a Bond film.

[mxsch 115]

Arnold is the only one who can handle Bond, in my opinion. If John Barry have recommended him, it is definitely means something.

Maybe Powell can take a spin and do something interesting with it.

Plus he is most likely my favourite composer after JW.

EDIT:

Actually George Martin introduced Arnold to Barry and he was very complimentary about his work. Plus Arnold had won Grammy and sent some his tracks to aprroval from EON when he did Shaken and Stirred album with covers and that how it went. Arnold also is a life-long Bond fan.

[mstrox 6,647]

58 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Subtlety has no place in a Bond film.

 

Agreed!

 

On album, I have to admit that I preferred Newman’s scores though.

[WampaRat 1,105]

43 minutes ago, mxsch said:

Maybe Powell can take a spin and do something interesting with it.

Oh ya. See: Paycheck 😊

[TolkienSS 405]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Subtlety has no place in a Bond film.

 

- John Barry

[crocodile 7,984]

I sort of just enjoy seeing different musicians constantly reinventing the sound. The core material is so specific and timeless that you never have to betray it, but, within that world, composers manage to put their stamp on it. Some I like more than others but it's fascinating how same/different things can be. I like Arnold's scores as they take the stuff very seriously but there's stuff to admire in efforts from both Newman and Zimmer/Mazzaro. They are all valid approaches.

 

Karol

[mxsch 115]

59 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

Oh ya. See: Paycheck 😊

I've heard it. Definitely one of his best.

[crocodile 7,984]

1 hour ago, WampaRat said:

Oh ya. See: Paycheck 😊

 

Also this:

 

 

This was actually my first John Powell album.

 

Karol

[Anthony 572]

If Arnold doesn't come back then Desplat is high on my wishlist of Bond composers.

 

 

[Tallguy 3,377]

3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

I think Spectre is great and the superior score to Skyfall. I don’t understand why some took against it because of a few tracked bits.

 

Maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. To me it sounded too much like Skyfall. And I liked Skyfall. I'll have to give it another whirl. Thanks.

[crocodile 7,984]

36 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. To me it sounded too much like Skyfall. And I liked Skyfall. I'll have to give it another whirl. Thanks.

I like it until the final London segment. Just like the film, the score runs out of steam. There's a lot to like in the first half though.

 

Karol

[Stark 310]

I really like Skyfall’s score, but Spectre’s just seemed to not have many new ideas.

[WampaRat 1,105]

Re-listening to this episode in which the Art of the Score guys go through all of Arnold’s Bond work. Man I miss these guys. I know they pop up in this forum periodically. Please come back!

 

”You gotta remind people of the past but make it better than the past.” 
 

A bold statement. But I believe Arnold truly did that with Tomorrow Never Dies. 

 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6df2sB8DzI4ysDEHyVx1zA?si=77rN3TIOSimIBwhgYEZ_Qw

[Tallguy 3,377]

I'd forgotten how cool Helicopter Ride is.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I certainly would never say that I think Tomorrow Never Dies is better than the best of the Barry scores.  I'd say Arnold just had the perfect balance of honoring the past while living in the present.

[Nemesis 244]

On 07/12/2022 at 5:13 PM, A. A. Ron said:

Damn, the film take of Backseat Driver is great!

What are the differences to the album version besides the opening synth?

[Anthony 572]

3 hours ago, Nemesis said:

What are the differences to the album version besides the opening synth?

 

Having not listened to the new release, I'm surprised the synth is different - sounds the same to me when I watch the film! The most obvious difference will be the extra Bond theme at the end. There's also a bit in the film where the drumpads cut out for a few bars, but I don't know whether that will be included on the album.

[MedigoScan 324]

I have heard the album version so often that Bondtheme at the end will take some getting used to.

[mxsch 115]

5 hours ago, Anthony said:

 

Having not listened to the new release, I'm surprised the synth is different - sounds the same to me when I watch the film! The most obvious difference will be the extra Bond theme at the end. There's also a bit in the film where the drumpads cut out for a few bars, but I don't know whether that will be included on the album.

Yup, drumpads cut is on the album, and I'm thinking that insert with Bond theme in the end was added because this build-up in the ending have led to nothing, and it's quite an excellent celebration of this rocket going through the BMW into the goons car.

Film version absolutely rocks and I'll take it any day over the original.

Also Backseat Pilot in it's original version is very fun and bombastic, but it lacks suspense of the film version.

Original White Knight is almost the same as the film version, except this is a clearly different take and intro is a bit different, and there was no melody which sounds ultra-similar to the Tina Turner's song for the Goldeneye

[Cameron007 43]

2 hours ago, mxsch said:

Yup, drumpads cut is on the album, and I'm thinking that insert with Bond theme in the end was added because this build-up in the ending have led to nothing, and it's quite an excellent celebration of this rocket going through the BMW into the goons car.

Film version absolutely rocks and I'll take it any day over the original.

Also Backseat Pilot in it's original version is very fun and bombastic, but it lacks suspense of the film version.

Original White Knight is almost the same as the film version, except this is a clearly different take and intro is a bit different, and there was no melody which sounds ultra-similar to the Tina Turner's song for the Goldeneye

 

I agree 100% about Backseat Pilot. Also, I wonder if the scene was originally longer? That would explain why the original cue is longer.

[A. A. Ron 1,739]

12 hours ago, Nemesis said:

What are the differences to the album version besides the opening synth?

 

The mix is different throughout the whole track, most notably in the final section. Listen to the synths literally any time the rest of the orchestra quiets down. The film version also has a prominent overlay of the James Bond theme before the final section of the cue.

[mxsch 115]

47 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

The mix is different throughout the whole track, most notably in the final section. Listen to the synths literally any time the rest of the orchestra quiets down. The film version also has a prominent overlay of the James Bond theme before the final section of the cue.

I feel like OG version have beats and all the synth parts kinda overthrowing orchestra a bit and the film version let it flow much more naturally

Strange that isolated score just have original version with the insert of Bond theme tacked onto it

[Tallguy 3,377]

I ripped the isolated score of Company Car and found it really unsatisfying. Very scene driven (hitting all the punch lines) and not very melodic. Is the extended version of Company Car the film version or is it a third thing?

 

(Kind of like when I ripped the film version of the From Russia with Love titles and found there was a reason the album version was the album version.)

[mxsch 115]

11 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I ripped the isolated score of Company Car and found it really unsatisfying. Very scene driven (hitting all the punch lines) and not very melodic. Is the extended version of Company Car the film version or is it a third thing?

 

(Kind of like when I ripped the film version of the From Russia with Love titles and found there was a reason the album version was the album version.)

Based on duration and what I've heard and checked, the cue in the main program is revised and is the film version, original one is on the CD 2 and original soundtrack album

[WampaRat 1,105]

I’ve always enjoyed this score. It was my go-to when I needed a Bond fix. But with this release, it’s quickly becoming one of my personal favorite top 10 scores of all time.