Amistad Expanded Release - MUSIC Discussion

[BrotherSound 1831]

6 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Shouldn't one version of Going Home have a star?

 

Possibly: I wasn't sure if I should count the alternate of Going Home as unreleased, since it's really just an alternate mix that omits the solo vocalist.

 

13 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

SCORE PRESENTATION 1:45:04
1 Introduction And Retribution** 4:40
2 July 4, 1839 4:04
3 Steering East* 1:27
4 The Capture** 5:00
5 Introducing John Quincy Adams** 5:15
6 Meeting Of The Minds* 3:58
7 Counsel Meets Client* 1:36
8 The Ship Remembers** 5:32
9 Visiting Adams* 1:32
10 What Is Their Story?** 3:44
11 Learning To Count* 1:57
12 Tale Of The Lion’s Tooth* 5:48
13 The Capture Of Cinqué** 4:03
14 The Crossing** 4:41
15 Tales Of Horror** 7:40
16 Discovering The Bible* 5:05
17 Prisoners’ Song* 1:33
18 The Letter To Massachusetts** 2:09
19 Cinqué’s Legal Mind* 2:26
20 African Violet* 5:33

Disc One Time: 78:10

 

DISC 2 
SCORE PRESENTATION CONT’D
1 Adams’ Address To The Court** 7:21
2 Adams’ Summation (Film Version)** 3:01
3 The Verdict* 5:10
4 Liberation Of Lomboko: Dry Your Tears, Afrika 2:17
5 Going Home 2:05
6 Dry Your Tears, Afrika (Reprise) 3:37
7 The Long Road To Justice 3:19

ADDITIONAL MUSIC 49:53
8 Cinqué’s Theme 4:13
9 Introduction (Alternate)* 1:12
10 The Capture (Alternate)** 5:02
11 Harbor Tavern* 3:05
12 Cinqué’s Theme (Solo Flute)* 2:07
13 Meeting Of The Minds (Instrumental Version)* 3:45
14 The Ship Remembers (Alternate)** 5:26
15 What Is Their Story? (Alternate)* 3:33
16 The Crossing (Alternate)** 4:23
17 Tales Of Horror (Alternate Excerpt)* 3:19
18 Discovering The Bible (Alternate)* 5:11
19 Cinqué’s Memories Of Home 2:39
20 Going Home (Alternate) 2:06
21 Dry Your Tears, Afrika (Alternate)** 3:35
 

Disc Two Time: 76:50
 

Total 2-Disc Time: 2:35:00

 

* Previously unreleased

** Contains previously unreleased material

 

Interesting to note that (apart from the end credits) only three actual film cues appear in their entirety on the OST:

 

July 4, 1839

Liberation Of Lomboko: Dry Your Tears, Afrika

Going Home

 

Four if you count Cinqué's Memories of Home, but it wasn't used in the film.

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

What would be a chronological tracklist including the source cues? I can't find one in the forums.

[BrotherSound 1831]

18 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

What would be a chronological tracklist including the source cues? I can't find one in the forums.

The guitar source cues (Harbor Tavern) go between tracks 5 and 6 on disc one, but the track consists of two cues in the reverse of the film order, so it’d need to be edited if you want truly C&C.

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

Thanks!

Oh just one cue! nice

 

Is the film order the same as williams intended or is the track order what he had in mind?

[Jay 30991]

5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

What would be a chronological tracklist including the source cues? I can't find one in the forums.

 

On 08/12/2022 at 2:31 PM, BrotherSound said:

If anyone is interested in adding the guitar source into the main program, it goes between ‘Introducing John Quincy Adams’ and ‘Meeting of the Minds’, though as the liner notes mention, the two guitar cues are presented in reverse order.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Is the film order the same as williams intended or is the track order what he had in mind?

 

AFAIK there are no scenes that got moved around in the final cut compared to where they were when the film was spotted and the reel/part numbers were assigned. 

[Henry Sítrónu 454]

The opening of Liberation of Lomboko sounds a bit cut off to me, as if there's something missing. Anyone else hearing/feeling this? 

[MrJosh 651]

9 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

The opening of Liberation of Lomboko sounds a bit cut off to me, as if there's something missing. Anyone else hearing/feeling this? 

I want to say that is just the way the attack of the synth bass sounds (or whatever it is). I hear it has an abrupt edge to the attack. 

[BrotherSound 1831]

21 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Thanks!

Oh just one cue! nice

Prisoners’ Song is also source, but already included in the main program in the appropriate place. There’s one other JW-composed source cue that I guess he did not want included on the set, entitled Jail Drums. In the film, it’s used between Prisoners’ Song and Letter to Massachusetts, when the prisoners are celebrating what they expect will be their imminent release.

[A Farewell to Kings 3557]

9 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

Prisoners’ Song is also source, but already included in the main program in the appropriate place. There’s one other JW-composed source cue that I guess he did not want included on the set, entitled Jail Drums. In the film, it’s used between Prisoners’ Song and Letter to Massachusetts, when the prisoners are celebrating what they expect will be their imminent release.

Is it just drums?

[BrotherSound 1831]

2 hours ago, Clockwork Angel said:

Is it just drums?

Mostly hand drums, and a bit of other percussion.

 

@crumbs Is this one of the unreleased bits you put up a clip for a while back?

[crumbs 12615]

Yup. Even back then I figured it wouldn't be included on an expansion. It's repetitive and wouldn't be very interesting as a standalone track. 

[BrotherSound 1831]

Thank goodness the guitar source and Prisoners’ Song made it, though!

[Holko 8019]

First listen to the main program with no booklet, samples or anything.

 

This score is just fantastic!

[MrJosh 651]

Pamela Dillard's vocals are really something special. So glad there is that full take of her singing in the Additional Music section!

[Holko 8019]

The booklet looks amazing, love the placement of images, the use of the period engraving of the incident, the columns and font choices making it feel like a vintage newspaper, the subtle colour variations removing monotony. Also Jeff Bond has improved in later years - rereading them recently, I'm still really not a fan of his AI booklet, but MR is not bad and WotW's pretty good. Well, this one's really good, well structured with all the interviews and quotes tying it together. Maybe still not special like Mike's best or Greiving's average but getting there! The section about the alternates is also very nice and helpful, providing background as well as difference descriptions, thanks @Jay!

 

I like the track naming solutions and all the OST microedits allowing the unedited tracks to be named properly as desired (like The Ship Remembers and The Ship Remembers (alternate) instead of La Amistad Remembered (film version) and La Amistad Remembered) - for example, Liberation of Lomboko had to be renamed because it's no longer joined with another track, so it was renamed Liberation of Lomboko: Dry Your Tears, Afrika, so that Dry Your Tears, Afrika (Reprise), a name which did have to be kept from the OST, still made sense without the copypaste.

 

I love the various choirs and vocals all over the score. I love the percussive textures. I love how varied Cinqué's theme is, I love that wind melody that sounds like Jingle Bells joined with Lincoln . In general I'm not a fan of the kind of americana used in this score, to me it often feels too drawn-out with meandering melodies hard to pin down and latch onto, and static, not really going anywhere, but I was surprised I mostly don't mind it here, maybe because we already got off on the right foot with Introducing John Quincy Adams already containing hidden Cinqué statements. I love how JW gets to flex his spiritual/gospel inspirations, briefly his harp writing, use spanish guitars and uses prominent synths at key points - even if I'm not sure about the synth choirs under the final Adams speech cues. I love how Dry Your Tears builds throughout, I got driven to tears over its biggest statements I think 5 times over 2 full listens. I love how its credits statement winds down to the legal americana strings, preparing to give the credits over to Long Road to Justice, which then eventually ends up winding back into it! I only listened to the OST once but just looking back at the tracklist (and never looking back again ) I'm 100% sure this is the absolutely infinitely superior program.

[JTW 124]

23 hours ago, Holko said:

The booklet looks amazing, love the placement of images, the use of the period engraving of the incident, the columns and font choices making it feel like a vintage newspaper, the subtle colour variations removing monotony. Also Jeff Bond has improved in later years - rereading them recently, I'm still really not a fan of his AI booklet, but MR is not bad and WotW's pretty good. Well, this one's really good, well structured with all the interviews and quotes tying it together. Maybe still not special like Mike's best or Grieving's average but getting there! The section about the alternates is also very nice and helpful, providing background as well as difference descriptions, thanks @Jay!

 

I like the track naming solutions and all the OST microedits allowing the unedited tracks to be named properly as desired (like The Ship Remembers and The Ship Remembers (alternate) instead of La Amistad Remembered (film version) and La Amistad Remembered) - for example, Liberation of Lomboko had to be renamed because it's no longer joined with another track, so it was renamed Liberation of Lomboko: Dry Your Tears, Afrika, so that Dry Your Tears, Afrika (Reprise), a name which did have to be kept from the OST, still made sense without the copypaste.

 

I love the various choirs and vocals all over the score. I love the percussive textures. I love how varied Cinqué's theme is, I love that wind melody that sounds like Jingle Bells joined with Lincoln . In general I'm not a fan of the kind of americana used in this score, to me it often feels too drawn-out with meandering melodies hard to pin down and latch onto, and static, not really going anywhere, but I was surprised I mostly don't mind it here, maybe because we already got off on the right foot with Introducing John Quincy Adams already containing hidden Cinqué statements. I love how JW gets to flex his spiritual/gospel inspirations, briefly his harp writing, use spanish guitars and uses prominent synths at key points - even if I'm not sure about the synth choirs under the final Adams speech cues. I love how Dry Your Tears builds throughout, I got driven to tears over its biggest statements I think 5 times over 2 full listens. I love how its credits statement winds down to the legal americana strings, preparing to give the credits over to Long Road to Justice, which then eventually ends up winding back into it! I only listened to the OST once but just looking back at the tracklist (and never looking back again ) I'm 100% sure this is the absolutely infinitely superior program.

Tim GREIVING.

[publicist 4635]

On 15/12/2022 at 9:53 PM, BrotherSound said:

Thank goodness the guitar source and Prisoners’ Song made it, though!

 

Prisoner's Song is imho one of the top three additions.

[Jay 30991]

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

The booklet looks amazing, love the placement of images, the use of the period engraving of the incident, the columns and font choices making it feel like a vintage newspaper, the subtle colour variations removing monotony.

 

Thank you for being the first to notice, or at least the first to point out, the vintage newspaper look - that's exactly what Jim was going for!

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

this one's really good, well structured with all the interviews and quotes tying it together.

 

It was interesting to read Sally Steven's recollections from the sessions.  If anybody wants more than that, this episode of @TownerFan's podcast features her talking extensively about Amistad as well:

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2022/04/01/sally-stevens-podcast/

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

The section about the alternates is also very nice and helpful, providing background as well as difference descriptions, thanks @Jay!

 

Thanks!  I had a very short time to write it, and strived to be as comprehensive and accurate as I could in the limited space.  I am sure I will only get better at doing this if I get the opportunity to do it again.

 

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

I like the track naming solutions and all the OST microedits allowing the unedited tracks to be named properly as desired (like The Ship Remembers and The Ship Remembers (alternate) instead of La Amistad Remembered (film version) and La Amistad Remembered) - for example

 

Even worse, he would have had to have called it "La Amistad Remembers (Extended Version)" because JW slightly shortened it for the OST album...

 

I like that he was able to use Williams' original cue name instead!

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

, Liberation of Lomboko had to be renamed because it's no longer joined with another track, so it was renamed Liberation of Lomboko: Dry Your Tears, Afrika, so that Dry Your Tears, Afrika (Reprise), a name which did have to be kept from the OST, still made sense without the copypaste.

 

Yes, exactly right!  Another brilliant plan by Mike.

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

I love that wind melody that sounds like Jingle Bells joined with Lincoln .

 

What's this now?

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

Introducing John Quincy Adams already containing hidden Cinqué statements.

 

Huh.  I can't say I ever clocked that before.  Are you talking about the bit from 2:34-2:54?

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

I love how Dry Your Tears builds throughout, I got driven to tears over its biggest statements I think 5 times over 2 full listens.

 

Somehow the orchestral rendition in the Tales from Horror alternates gets to me even more than the powerful choral rendition used in the film and main program

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

I love how its credits statement winds down to the legal americana strings, preparing to give the credits over to Long Road to Justice, which then eventually ends up winding back into it!

 

YES!  YES YES YES!  And this is why this score works so much better in complete and chronological form than his OST program, which destroys all of this careful planning.

 

 

On 16/12/2022 at 6:26 AM, Holko said:

I only listened to the OST once but just looking back at the tracklist (and never looking back again ) I'm 100% sure this is the absolutely infinitely superior program.

 

I cannot find any enjoyment out of listening to that program.

 

3 hours ago, publicist said:

 

Prisoner's Song is imho one of the top three additions.

 

It's definitely one of my favorite tracks!

[Holko 8019]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

On 16/12/2022 at 12:26 PM, Holko said:

I love that wind melody that sounds like Jingle Bells joined with Lincoln .

 

What's this now?

The motif in Meeting of the Minds, Tale of the Lion's Tooth and Cinque's Legal Mind. Part of it reminded me of part of Jingle Bells immediately, but then it goes away into a figure from Lincoln, heard for example at 0:32 of People's House.

25 minutes ago, Jay said:

On 16/12/2022 at 12:26 PM, Holko said:

Introducing John Quincy Adams already containing hidden Cinqué statements.

 

Huh.  I can't say I ever clocked that before.  Are you talking about the bit from 2:34-2:54?

Hmm, now that I listen again, maybe not. But yes, it was that part.

[Jay 30991]

47 minutes ago, Holko said:

The motif in Meeting of the Minds, Tale of the Lion's Tooth and Cinque's Legal Mind. Part of it reminded me of part of Jingle Bells immediately, but then it goes away into a figure from Lincoln, heard for example at 0:32 of People's House.

 

Huh.  I cannot hear the jingle bells thing at all, but I hear what you're saying about that People's House bit

 

47 minutes ago, Holko said:

Hmm, now that I listen again, maybe not. But yes, it was that part.

 

Maybe someone with an ear for the notes will tell us how that passage relates (or doesn't) to Cinque's theme.

[Jay 30991]

So I don't think this has been discussed yet:

 

Who else was blown away to learn that a portion of "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" as we always knew it for 25 years was just a part of "Liberation of Lomoboko" tracked in, replacing Williams' original intentions for the middle of the song?

 

I MUCH prefer his intentions over this tracked version.  But, it is interesting he integrated this tracking into the concert version he performed in concerts (and recorded for Spielberg/Williams III)

 

The acapella opening of the final version is nice, but I've come to like the percussion opening of his original version more, I think.

[JohnnyD 1111]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

So I don't think this has been discussed yet:

 

Who else was blown away to learn that a portion of "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" as we always knew it for 25 years was just a part of "Liberation of Lomoboko" tracked in, replacing Williams' original intentions for the middle of the song?

 

I MUCH prefer his intentions over this tracked version.  But, it is interesting he integrated this tracking into the concert version he performed in concerts (and recorded for Spielberg/Williams III)

 

The acapella opening of the final version is nice, but I've come to like the percussion opening of his original version more, I think.

I certainly was blown away; I love both versions.

[Brundlefly 2308]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

So I don't think this has been discussed yet:

 

Who else was blown away to learn that a portion of "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" as we always knew it for 25 years was just a part of "Liberation of Lomoboko" tracked in, replacing Williams' original intentions for the middle of the song?

 

I MUCH prefer his intentions over this tracked version.  But, it is interesting he integrated this tracking into the concert version he performed in concerts (and recorded for Spielberg/Williams III)

 

The acapella opening of the final version is nice, but I've come to like the percussion opening of his original version more, I think.

Timestamp? I want my set now! My impatience reminds me of 2018 and 2016

[Jay 30991]

The music heard from 1:05-1:47 of the final OST track is literally just a portion of "Liberation of Lomboko" tracked in.  You can only hear what it replaced on the new LLL CD.

[BrotherSound 1831]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Who else was blown away to learn that a portion of "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" as we always knew it for 25 years was just a part of "Liberation of Lomoboko" tracked in, replacing Williams' original intentions for the middle of the song?

Definitely not something I think any of us ever would have guessed.
 

Significantly, this is the only major Spielberg/Williams film that didn’t have the majority of its written scores leak (other than The Fabelmans, but it hasn’t been very long), so we really had little idea what it might offer in terms of alternates in advance.

[Incanus 5569]

Well I finally received my copy and have given it a couple of spins. This new magnificent release sort of opens up the score in a completely different way compared to the OST or even to how the music is heard in the film. Every aspect of the score receives a more extensive and satisfying arc on this release. You can now hear clearly the different thematic threads from start to finish the way Williams conceived them, which is usually the highlight of many of Williams' expanded scores, the strong arc of the musical storytelling. Cinque's theme is now clearly shown to be the central theme of the work through numerous new variations from the beginning of the score to the final notes but various other musical ideas are now much clearer in the overall musical story.

 

The unreleased and unused music is a revelation and further increases my already considerable appreciation of this music and especially Williams' skills at adapting like a chameleon to these different musical worlds in various films he has scored with such seeming ease.  There are too many highlights to mention here, from the African vocal and percussion work to the intimate moments for solo instruments and vocalists. Just fantastic and the album flows wonderfully from start to finish.

 

And then there are those nearly 50 minutes of alternates and extra music on disc 2. I never expected that this score would have so many alternates but they do in addition to being more great music give those wonderful behind-the-scenes glimpses of how the film scoring process works and the different compositions evolve (a special thank you to Mike and Jay for providing nice, concise and clear write-up on what these pieces are and how they differ from the finished film versions).

 

The excellent liner notes by Jeff Bond (and Mike and Jay) and the great art direction by Jim Titus round out the whole package, which is fantastic! As a Williams fan one could not wish for a better Christmas gift. 

[Jay 30991]

Thank you, Inky, very kind of you, and a nice analysis!

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

I noticed that the verse "Dry your tears africa" only appears in the end credits song but not in previous other statements of the melody in the score, which do not feature that  musical passage. Which makes sense as i think the first use is in the finale, 'Going home' .  I suppose this was intentional by williams?

 

It is part of cinques theme too. and long road to justice.

 

 

[Jay 30991]

Yes Jeff and I both referred to that part of the composition as the song's refrain, and both point out that it also appears in Discovering The Bible

 

I love it's appearance there, but love the one at the end of Long Road To Justice a lot too

[Corellian2019 335]

On 15/12/2022 at 3:53 PM, BrotherSound said:

Thank goodness the guitar source and Prisoners’ Song made it, though!

 

"Give us Jail Drums!"

 

But seriously, it was the one standout piece of source music that I noticed while watching the film for the first time recently. I like to think that it wasn't included because its length would have pushed the 2nd CD past 79 minutes

[A Farewell to Kings 3557]

Found my copy underneath the tree this morning!

[Bryant Burnette 542]

Listened to it tonight, finally; for me, this is one of those "I knew I liked this score, but I didn't know I liked it THIS much" type releases.  In other words, it's an expanded John Williams score.  Glad to add it to the collection, glad I'll get to revisit it many more times over the years.  Looking forward to the next one!

[GerateWohl 2506]

I like disc 2 much better than disc 1. 

I just wished Africa Violet would be at the beginning of disc 2, then I would probably hardly ever put on disc 1. For my taste over most of the time too little interesting going in, too much unvaried Cinque's Theme. I mean, it's a great theme, but the concert arrangement on disc 2 is almost enough for me.

Also some of the flute pieces on disc 1 are nice, but not to hold my attention for an hour.

[Jay 30991]

It is true that Cinque's theme appears in 10 of the 20 tracks on disc 1. 

 

But some of the tracks that don't have his theme in it are essential - Meeting of the Minds, What Is Their Story?, Prisoner's Song - and that huge choral "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" treatment at the end of Tales of Horror is pretty essential too

[GerateWohl 2506]

I will check that again. Thanks.

[Holko 8019]

This is one of the things I really dislike about the physical only nature of these releases - it locks some people into the mindset that this is how it is, this stream on the disc is the only way to listen to it, the discs being (completely arbitrarily to adhere to the pre-set standard length) separate and playing only one of them, or making strictly a playlist out of the ripped tracks is the only control they can have over it, when in reality they can rip it and swap alternates, delete, join, combine tracks - I already made an edit where I modified The Capture, The Ship Remembers and The Crossing by switching between the versions, keeping the parts I like better (like the longer first half of The Crossing and the second half of The Crossing (alternate) without the percussion overlay).

[GerateWohl 2506]

Just listened again to Meeting of the Minds and there I remembered, what it reminds me of.

 

 

Another parallel I see between the two scores.

[Jay 30991]

I can't decide which treatment of that theme I like the most - Meeting Of The Minds, Tale of the Lion's Tooth, Cinque's Legal Mind, or Cinque's Memories of Home.  All great, all different!

 

 

Oh wow, yes, that Going To School cue does have some similarities, doesn't it?  Damn, I long for a complete edition of that score.  I kind of stopped listening to any Williams scores that hadn't been expanded yet to make the eventual expansion all the more special one day, but since we have no idea when the stupid AFM rules will change, I should really just learn this score properly, shouldn't I

[GerateWohl 2506]

54 minutes ago, Holko said:

This is one of the things I really dislike about the physical only nature of these releases - it locks some people into the mindset that this is how it is, this stream on the disc is the only way to listen to it, the discs being (completely arbitrarily to adhere to the pre-set standard length) separate and playing only one of them, or making strictly a playlist out of the ripped tracks is the only control they can have over it, when in reality they can rip it and swap alternates, delete, join, combine tracks - I already made an edit where I modified The Capture, The Ship Remembers and The Crossing by switching between the versions, keeping the parts I like better (like the longer first half of The Crossing and the second half of The Crossing (alternate) without the percussion overlay).

No. This is where it ends for me. Maybe you remember my joke about creating you favourite 8-minutes edit of Beethoven's 5th, which would be essentially the same thing. There are things written and edited by the composer in a certain way, for a film or and album or a concert and this I take as a given. I might select tracks for a playlist, but I don't start creating my own tracks edited together from my favourite moments of the score. And this mindset is not a matter of missing awareness of technical capabilities of editing software, but ... somehow, let me put it this way, I also never liked those Techno edits of disco classics from the 70s. The composer decided the architecture of each piece and I leave it with that. If I want another piece, I have to write my own or leave it.

 

17 hours ago, Jay said:

Oh wow, yes, that Going To School cue does have some similarities, doesn't it?  Damn, I long for a complete edition of that score.  I kind of stopped listening to any Williams scores that hadn't been expanded yet to make the eventual expansion all the more special one day, but since we have no idea when the stupid AFM rules will change, I should really just learn this score properly, shouldn't I

For a long time, when I wanted to listen to Geisha I was just fine with the Cello Suite for orchestra, a beautiful ellaboration of all the major themes. But yes, the score is worth exploring.

In the beginning Geisha was a score that mainly reminded me of other scores. Some parts sounded to me like Seven Years in Tibet, others like Amistad, The Chairman's Waltz reminded me of Into the Woods from A.I. But latest with the Cello Suite it had developed a life of its own for me.

[Jay 30991]

It'd be neat if those subsequent Geisha suites could be added to an expansion one day since they are all owned by Sony

 

Unless so much music was recorded for the film there's no room, of course

[GerateWohl 2506]

Yes. Suites, piano arrangements, If they exist by the Maestro himself and have been recorded. All that added to the expansion would be great. 

The best we got so far is probably the Harry Potter box with the children's suite from the Philosopher's Stone.

[A Farewell to Kings 3557]

14 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

No. This is where it ends for me. Maybe you remember my joke about creating you favourite 8-minutes edit of Beethoven's 5th, which would be essentially the same thing. There are things written and edited by the composer in a certain way, for a film or and album or a concert and this I take as a given.

You misunderstood.

 

JW records most alternates/revisions/inserts, as options to be used as the filmmakers saw fit.

 

JW himself has mixed and matched versions

 

Holko is just doing the same thing

[Holko 8019]

Mike already added an alternate, a film/album edit that includes tracking from another cue, and wild takes into the main program, it's not as JW wrote it down on paper. He's alsooften limited by having to keep some album tracks, he can't join cues which were obviously written to be joined together, or in the case if Always he kept a lot of nonchrono edits or tracks which had different versions of the same cue joined together.

[Antonb 114]

Mine has still not arrived after 3 weeks due to postage strike! So frustrating! 

[mstrox 5679]

Listened to this today and thought it was pretty good!  The expanded program tells the story well and never wears out its welcome.  I didn’t find it as revelatory as some of you did, although maybe that was due to the fact that I’ve always held the score in great esteem over the years, hand in hand with SPR as best from the era.

[Jay 30991]

I think tracks like Retribution, Prisoner's Song, African Violet, The Verdict, and Harbor Town add new depth to the score that wasn't there only going by the OST album

[mstrox 5679]

For sure!  Listening to it again right now.  I’m very enthusiastic about the release, it’s just a measure of magnitude thing, haha.

[MrJosh 651]

On 08/12/2022 at 12:31 PM, BrotherSound said:

A few thoughts after living with this release for a few days:

 

’Introduction and Retribution’ makes for an excellent opener, very tense and atmospheric. Other than The Lost World, this may be the Williams score with the most outstanding hand drumming.

 

If anyone is interested in adding the guitar source into the main program, it goes between ‘Introducing John Quincy Adams’ and ‘Meeting of the Minds’, though as the liner notes mention, the two guitar cues are presented in reverse order.

 

I love that we now get several versions of what I didn’t realize was a recurring theme in ‘Cinque’s Memories of Home’: ‘Meeting of the Minds’, ‘Tale of the Lion’s Tooth’, and ‘Cinque’s Legal Mind’, plus two more in the bonus section.

 

@Jay Happen to know which was first? Was ‘Discovering the Bible’ based on the concert arrangement of Cinque’s theme (original title, ‘Tale of the Tiger’), or vice versa? Either way, it’s a stunning cue, and the alternate is equally great, and very different.

 

‘African Violet’ is a definite unreleased highlight. It’s remarkable how when JW evokes Copland, it sounds like something else Copland might have written, rather than a paraphrase of one of his existing works.

 

’Adams’ Address to the Court’ is over 7 minutes, yet flows so effortlessly it doesn’t feel nearly that long.

 

’The Verdict’ contains my favorite single version of Cinque’s theme, a gentle, wondrous statement as he learns of his freedom, with celeste twinkling behind it like all the stars in the night sky.

 

Some expansions contain bonus sections only worth listening through once (if that), but that is not the case here: some of the most stunning music in the collection is to be found here. The standouts are the alternates of ‘What Is Their Story?’, ‘Tales of Horror’, and ‘Discovering the Bible’, and ‘Dry Your Tears, Afrika’. The others are more subtly different, but add up to beautifully constructed program. It’s hard not to wonder what other unheard gems from other scores remain to be discovered whenever treasures like these are unearthed.

As usual, the stunning artwork by Jim Titus, and thoughtful liner notes by Jeff Bond are the icing on the cake. And a new, welcome addition this time is a detailed explanation of all the alternates from @Jay and Mike Matessino. 
 

I really can’t say enough good things about this release; it deserves to sell 5 million copies, not 5 thousand!

Great post, @BrotherSoundand it captures a lot of how I felt as I listened through the score a few times now. 

 

On 19/12/2022 at 8:56 AM, Jay said:

So I don't think this has been discussed yet:

 

Who else was blown away to learn that a portion of "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" as we always knew it for 25 years was just a part of "Liberation of Lomoboko" tracked in, replacing Williams' original intentions for the middle of the song?

 

I MUCH prefer his intentions over this tracked version.  But, it is interesting he integrated this tracking into the concert version he performed in concerts (and recorded for Spielberg/Williams III)

 

The acapella opening of the final version is nice, but I've come to like the percussion opening of his original version more, I think.

Wow, that's nuts. I had no idea!

 

Is this the first Williams expansion to include tracked music? It makes sense why it's there, but I can't think of another example like that off the top of my head. 

 

-----------------

 

Some of my thoughts as I listened to the score. 

 

I've listened to it 4 times so far. Twice on headphones, twice sitting in front of speakers. What I found interesting is that on my first listen, I enjoyed the Adams theme and the Americana writing far more than I did the various treatments of Cinque's theme or the other tranquil theme. But during the 2nd or 3rd, things shifted for me and I became more connected to Cinque's theme, and from then on it's been popping into my head and I'll start humming it randomly. 

 

I like how the choirs in some cases are used as overlays, and that is a cool and versatile idea; recording choir bits separately and then having freedom to overlay, fade them in/ out during different cues. 

 

I really love the children's choir in The Capture. 

 

In July 4, 1839, something about the harmonic language around 2:10-2:25 or so and the angular string part, reminds me of something else. Possibly the intro cue after the Main Title in TPM oddly enough. Maybe it's in the same mode or using similar harmonies/ chords...I didn't take the time to analyze it. 

 

Steering East has one of my favorite moments of Cinque's theme, on solo English horn.

 

Starting around the 1 minute mark into The Capture, I love the raspy low brass part that repeats for a while, and when the children's choir comes in, something about it is really moving, beautiful to me. 

 

The Ship Remembers has some great woodwind writing in the first 3rd of this track, and in Visiting Adams, I love the horn solo and then hearing the Adams theme on flute. 

 

I like the use of dual harps in the last minute of Tale of the Lion's Tooth (easier to hear in headphones). 

 

One of the top highlights of the score for me is Discovering the Bible. I love Cinque's theme on solo flute, then hearing the English horn take over, then a beautiful cello part, and then solo horn. 

 

I like the warmth of the Dry Your Tears theme in Adams' Summation, and then the winds/horns on the theme in The Verdict. 

 

I've always loved the section from 0:40-1:00 of The Long Road Ahead and Tim Morrison's playing (of course). 

 

 

This is a great release and it has been fun to get to know this score more. The OST didn't really get played a lot for me, and most of what I recalled was Dry Your Tears, Afrika and The Long Road Ahead, so it felt like an almost completely new score for me. 

 

 

 

I will add some thoughts about the Additional Music later....

 

 

 

 

[Brundlefly 2308]

4 hours ago, MrJosh said:

Is this the first Williams expansion to include tracked music? It makes sense why it's there, but I can't think of another example like that off the top of my head. 

The Lost World had a bonus track that combined two tracks just as in the movie.

[Holko 8019]

Black Sunday recreates the film credits in a bonus track, an edit of some cues from the finale.

CE3K again recreates the film credits as a bonus track, which replace the ending with an edit of other cues.

Superman recreates the film swap of the Main Title and again credits as bonus tracks.